Is Saryn really balanced?.

[----Fenrir----]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Excal meanwhile hits for like 20k linear without real options to raise his damage aside from blinding and execution (~80k singletarget, what saryn is able to spread with a few melee hits)

Sorry, but EB is not even close to being single target. The waves are HUGE and have unlimited punch through. And this is a horde shooter so usually you hit multiple enemies at once.

• Excal kills things.
• Meanwhile Saryn plays around with her spores and low DPS weapons (Ignis, Hikou Prime, and so on) always in fear that an enemy looks at her the wrong way and she goes down again.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

I wasn't a Saryn fan before, but I can't say I'm impressed with the rework. It seems like you spent a lot of time setting up multiple procs and spend more energy to apply the same-ish damage to enemies over a much longer period of time, or you just play her as a debuff frame and still spam one power forever.

I'm much more apprehensive of frame reworks after this because I don't want to see vauban having to bounce enemies into bastille to hold them there or loki needing to cast three powers to be invisible but still detected by this, that, and the other thing. I don't want them to feel like a chore to play, like Saryn does now. Even if you were nuking everything instantly after molt, spores, shoot the spores/cast molt again, miasma, it's still not fun or "more gameplay," just more work to get a similar result..

Edited March 11, 2016 by (PS4)ElZilcho

[YasaiTsume]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

I wasn't a Saryn fan before, but I can't say I'm impressed with the rework. It seems like you spent a lot of time setting up multiple procs and spend more energy to apply the same-ish damage to enemies over a much longer period of time, or you just play her as a debuff frame and still spam one power forever.

 

Not quite true.
 

Spoiler

Saryn's damage build actually stems from Spores.

Default 100% Str will net 25% of Toxin Damage proc to burst Viral damage.

And it scales with Strength.

So if one were to build a say, 200% + Strength Saryn, and grab an Ignis or high status weapon, and pop that Spore, or even better, crit it, the damage of that Viral burst damage way outdamages Miasma.

I have seen crazy stuff like 10k Viral Burst so it is arguebly Saryn's most damaging ability.

Before yu go to argue that Saryn just turned press 1 to win, no, because her other abilities AID Spores in spreading, like Molt explosion, further spreading if yu throw in Miasma to the mix. 

All Saryn needs to do is get her Spores out, then pop them with a nice weapon to destroy mobs. Viral proc actually helps in bringing the health down, making her damage just overkill the target.

Melee Saryn also works with all these crazy Melee Mods like Blood Rush and Body Count around, as Toxic damage is STACKABLE and it scales to the weapon damage, meaning Combo multiplier could affect the on hit damage. 

 

Saryn probably is the current frame that has most ability synergy with weapons than any other frame since she basically needs a weapon that can spread her Spores and boom, room full of Little Green Men. 

Of course yu are entitled to yur opinions.

[Genitive]

1 hour ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Sorry, but EB is not even close to being single target. The waves are HUGE and have unlimited punch through. And this is a horde shooter so usually you hit multiple enemies at once.

• Excal kills things.
• Meanwhile Saryn plays around with her spores and low DPS weapons (Ignis, Hikou Prime, and so on) always in fear that an enemy looks at her the wrong way and she goes down again.

Exalted Blade is cheesy, overpowered and most of all boring. Sure, it can kill things, but spaming E and Radial Blind occasionaly is not my kind of an engaging gameplay. And let's not pretend Excalibur can't go down as quickly.

[Rydian]

8 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Sure, it can kill things, but spaming E and Radial Blind occasionaly is not my kind of an engaging gameplay.

Agreed here, I used to be a big Excalibur player but I just find using EB to not be fun in the current incarnation.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Sorry, but EB is not even close to being single target. The waves are HUGE and have unlimited punch through. And this is a horde shooter so usually you hit multiple enemies at once.

• Excal kills things.
• Meanwhile Saryn plays around with her spores and low DPS weapons (Ignis, Hikou Prime, and so on) always in fear that an enemy looks at her the wrong way and she goes down again.

I posted actuall numbers in the thread you quoted me in, with a weapon that isn't even the top weapon (that title goes to the dual ichors)...the guy who made them validated em with screenshots and wasn't even able to get a shot using his stealth multipliers so the reality is probably even higher. The spread damage there is HIGHER, not linear but RADIAL, using her kit makes it just as much infinite in her spread, again, RADIAL and EXPONENTIAL and you still mention sh*tty weapons, ignore evrything i said and call the multiple of what excal could ever do playing around with spores?

 

Are you fu**ing serious mate?

Edited March 11, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[----Fenrir----]

5 hours ago, Rydian said:

The range on Ignis is crazy nowadays, especially with the +range mod.  Makes popping lots of spores great, and if you have a high status chance to confuse on the Ignis, you can make the enemies pop spores for you... which is even more hilarious.

 

Much wow level 20 enemies! Frost kills them with one press of "4" in less than a quarter of the time. And he is not even considered a DPS frame.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I posted actuall numbers in the thread you quoted me in, with a weapon that isn't even the top weapon (that title goes to the dual ichors)...the guy who made them validated em with screenshots and wasn't even able to get a shot using his stealth multipliers so the reality is probably even higher. The spread damage there is HIGHER, not linear but RADIAL, using her kit makes it just as much infinite in her spread, again, RADIAL and EXPONENTIAL and you still mention sh*tty weapons, ignore evrything i said and call the multiple of what excal could ever do playing around with spores?

 

Are you fu**ing serious mate?

And how many hours does it take to build up for the damage? Haven't the enemies already died of old age by then? Seriously, I haven't seen a Saryn do anything useful since the re-work. I rather have an Oberon in the group. Build right his "1" is actually decent CC so he is at least good for something.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Much wow level 20 enemies! Frost kills them with one press of "4" in less than a quarter of the time. And he is not even considered a DPS frame.

And how many hours does it take to build up for the damage? Haven't the enemies already died of old age by then? Seriously, I haven't seen a Saryn do anything useful since the re-work. I rather have an Oberon in the group. Build right his "1" is actually decent CC so he is at least good for something.

Hm i guess about the time it takes for enemys to scale to a range where you actually need the damage. Ya know, to the moment when excal becomes utterly useless. The high spore spread is instant after you set a spore and slap a enemy with lash on. The max damage scales with each hit as you gain multipliers. 2-3x combo is nothing that takes a long time to build up anyways and her kit multiplies the damage as you play. The example i made with 3 spores and a few dots was in fact a min scenario...reality is constant popping, smaller dots all over the place, doubled effective damage trough viral and most definitive more then 2-3 poison dots but whatever you're able to slap on enemys in 8 seconds, with fast weapons and berserker. Meaning instant kills in melee range and radial dots->triggered damage that goes into the 100Thousands per spore, accessable by evryone just by shooting them.

 

Ya know, these channeled abilitys have suffered a lot since these fancy stalker melee mods made theyr way into the game but certain frames could still make up for it somehow. Excal still kept his punch-trough and valk her invincibility. What you try to ignore here is that saryn essencially does the same as excal, dealing radial damage scaling off melee-only better, under the full influence of these mods.

 

Multiple instances of red crits, scaling, stacking up, radial, team fit. Excals golden days are over mate.

Edited March 12, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Hellmaker2004]

3 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Much wow level 20 enemies! Frost kills them with one press of "4" in less than a quarter of the time. And he is not even considered a DPS frame.

Frost four skill deal 1500 + 400 damage that would equal 1900 cold damage. 
 
Saryn deals 350 x 3 and only needs to deal 50% of there health so add in another double damage for (350 x 3) x 2 for a total of 2100 corrosive damage per tick for three ticks without molt included and i would say that corrosive damage is slightly better than cold damage except against shields so tell me again how 1900 is more than 2100 dealt three times, faster sure but it is much higher.
 
I mean sure, his targets deal the 400 cold damage as shatters to everything in a 4.5 meter radius but not only does that damage only work if the targets die during there freeze period. But it also has diminishing damage the further away each target are from each other. 

 
Saryn is a Damage over time frame, it may not be the best design in a game where most mobs die instantly to our damage, but i find her kit to be working fine if you use all of her ability's and not only compare one skill to another. Maybe people need to stop comparing a frame that focuses on damage over time to direct damage frames and realize that her kit is all about dealing high damage to everything around her.

[RealPandemonium]

27 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Frost four skill deal 1500 + 400 damage that would equal 1900 cold damage. 
 
Saryn deals 350 x 3 and only needs to deal 50% of there health so add in another double damage for (350 x 3) x 2 for a total of 2100 corrosive damage per tick for three ticks without molt included and i would say that corrosive damage is slightly better than cold damage except against shields so tell me again how 1900 is more than 2100 dealt three times, faster sure but it is much higher.
 
I mean sure, his targets deal the 400 cold damage as shatters to everything in a 4.5 meter radius but not only does that damage only work if the targets die during there freeze period. But it also has diminishing damage the further away each target are from each other. 

 
Saryn is a Damage over time frame, it may not be the best design in a game where most mobs die instantly to our damage, but i find her kit to be working fine if you use all of her ability's and not only compare one skill to another. Maybe people need to stop comparing a frame that focuses on damage over time to direct damage frames and realize that her kit is all about dealing high damage to everything around her.

Miasma has by 4 ticks by default (3 ticks affected by duration stat plus 1 more tick.)  Each of these deals 350 damage for a total of 1200.  If an enemy is affected by Viral or Toxin status the damage is increased by 100% to 2400.  If the enemy has both Viral and Toxin status then the damage is boosted by 200% to 4200.  Enemies affected by Viral status have their HP halved, which effectively translates to incoming damage being doubled.  Thus, an enemy affected by only Viral status effectively takes 4800 damage, and an enemy afflicted with both statuses effectively takes 8400 damage.  This damage is dealt in even parts over 4 ticks (more or fewer ticks and thus damage dependent on your duration stat.)  Old exploit Miasma dealt 4500 damage, with around 85% in one tick and ~15% in a second [invisible] tick.  The fact that Miasma's current damage potential per cast exceeds the potential of the exploit build shows that DE wanted to preserve Miasma's identity as a powerful nuke, though through actual mechanics instead of a programming error.

[Rydian]

5 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Much wow level 20 enemies! Frost kills them with one press of "4" in less than a quarter of the time. And he is not even considered a DPS frame.

Because the only thing that matters is damage, not utility or fun.

Right?

I mean my post was obviously meant to show DPS and kills, right?  Not anything like range or utility or fun.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Saryn is trash. Ash for example would kill whole room twice before she does anything. Equinox can prepare instakill room nuke too. Mag vs corpus too.

 

[YasaiTsume]

Meh there will always be a group of people who hate on a Frame.

Just let it go. 

As an avid Saryn user I adapted to the new kit and got 20k kills since the last update, got 17k kills on my Saryn Prime already.

She maybe trash to the META but I really don't care.

[PikeOrShield]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)Lord_Gremlin said:

Saryn is trash. Ash for example would kill whole room twice before she does anything. Equinox can prepare instakill room nuke too. Mag vs corpus too.

 

Well, know that we're measuring e-peens, Ash is going to get his kneecaps removed by the nerf-bat sometime this year, Equinox takes longer to build her nuke, and Mag is... Mag.  Saryn, on the other hand, can kill people without being in the same room.

See how constructive that comment was? @OP.  She's not terrible but she's not a press one button to win, unlike Ash and Mag. It's only rewarding if you take time to set up shop.  However, some people have differing opinions on how rewarding it should be.

[TheBrsrkr]

I don't get why a frame built to spread poison, as in, damage over time, as in, not a straight DPS frame, is compared to the heavy hitters that do damage and nothing else? 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

6 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

Nvm, you have a pm

 

Edited March 12, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[----Fenrir----]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Hm i guess about the time it takes for enemys to scale to a range where you actually need the damage. Ya know, to the moment when excal becomes utterly useless.

Excal's damage works well up to level 150 enemies. And thanks to Radial Blind he also can survive that long. Gl trying to survive with Saryn up to that point. Let alone past that^^

4 hours ago, Rydian said:

Because the only thing that matters is damage, not utility or fun.

Right?

I mean my post was obviously meant to show DPS and kills, right?  Not anything like range or utility or fun.

What utility? Saryn has zero utility apart from viral procs which I can spread with my Braton Prime nearly as fast without having to use energy.... Frost's Avalanche has utility. Because the freezing and the armor reduction still retain their usefulness long after the damage falls off.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

8 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I don't get why a frame built to spread poison, as in, damage over time, as in, not a straight DPS frame, is compared to the heavy hitters that do damage and nothing else? 

And isn't it fun how this dot frame, as in damage over time frame, beats direct damage frames BY FAR in therms of direct damage when you actually use her mechanics?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Excal's damage works well up to level 150 enemies. And thanks to Radial Blind he also can survive that long. Gl trying to survive with Saryn up to that point. Let alone past that^^

What utility? Saryn has zero utility apart from viral procs which I can spread with my Braton Prime nearly as fast without having to use energy.... Frost's Avalanche has utility. Because the freezing and the armor reduction still retain their usefulness long after the damage falls off.

Naramon shadow step? Huras stealth when it runs out? What can harm you when they're unable to target you? Stealth sure is one overpowered mechanic in this game. But how would you know mr. Loki profile picture. Not to mention that you're doomed to run alone for all eternity. Guess what, a mirage in your squad is not affected by los ~ aaand also outnumbers excal by popping her share of spores.

Excal sure has CC in his kit but is NO CC FRAME. He's cool for random runs but completely useless(!) for planed ones. Would you grab excal over a mirage when you have the choice? There isn't even a reason to grab him over saryn in therms of damage anymore.

Golden days. Over. Outnumbered by saryn. By far.

Edited March 12, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[----Dante----]

what the point of that video?

how can u compare burst dmg frame to dot dmg frame?

 

[-dicht.Amducias-]

On 3/11/2016 at 7:22 AM, hazerddex said:

and here i was expecting another bring back the old saryn draco crying forum..and oh look i was right.

Old saryn in draco was @(*()$ bad

[-dicht.Amducias-]

16 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Not quite true.
 

  Hide contents

Saryn's damage build actually stems from Spores.

Default 100% Str will net 25% of Toxin Damage proc to burst Viral damage.

And it scales with Strength.

So if one were to build a say, 200% + Strength Saryn, and grab an Ignis or high status weapon, and pop that Spore, or even better, crit it, the damage of that Viral burst damage way outdamages Miasma.

I have seen crazy stuff like 10k Viral Burst so it is arguebly Saryn's most damaging ability.

Before yu go to argue that Saryn just turned press 1 to win, no, because her other abilities AID Spores in spreading, like Molt explosion, further spreading if yu throw in Miasma to the mix. 

All Saryn needs to do is get her Spores out, then pop them with a nice weapon to destroy mobs. Viral proc actually helps in bringing the health down, making her damage just overkill the target.

Melee Saryn also works with all these crazy Melee Mods like Blood Rush and Body Count around, as Toxic damage is STACKABLE and it scales to the weapon damage, meaning Combo multiplier could affect the on hit damage. 

 

Saryn probably is the current frame that has most ability synergy with weapons than any other frame since she basically needs a weapon that can spread her Spores and boom, room full of Little Green Men. 

Of course yu are entitled to yur opinions.

I saw 3 million tics

[LOUDPACKS]

On 2016. 3. 11. at 7:26 AM, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You might be able to test it: does poison scale from crits? Slash as status equivalent on a different damage type does and gets a massive boost from the body count combo.

 

To be more specific on this: the spores get a boost in the extend of the summ of the innitial damage that triggered each poison procc, basicly the full basedamage (x multiplier?) that set it and spreads 25% of this endnumber (affected by strength) as radial dot without consuming the posion proccs. Just playing her effectively makes the damage swell into infinity and... what? 80-100k dual ichor red crit damage STACKING WITH EACH HIT affecting it would most definitly make her THE damage frame for high levels. 

Miasama isn't only a stun eather as it acts as radial damage in the typical execution: it popps spores on the torso. Idealy multiple ones in a wide area, what also spreads them like crazy and adds a sh**load of damage.

 

Wow so red crit weapons are the way to go for proccing huh?  For dual ichors should I leave the element alone or make it gas for this?

[Gurpgork]

27 minutes ago, LOUDPACKS said:

Wow so red crit weapons are the way to go for proccing huh?  For dual ichors should I leave the element alone or make it gas for this?

It wouldn't hurt to try both. I'd say use Corrosive for Void since you would get better damage multipliers against Gunners and suchwhat, while you'd still get the Toxin procs from Toxic Lash. Although since Toxic Lash doesn't use elemental resistances or weaknesses to calculate its damage, it's still worthwhile to mod for Gas. The only problem I see with a Gas status build is that all your enemies have to be pretty close together for it to be effective, and they tend not to cooperate with that, but it's still worth trying.

Although Atterax is probably better on Saryn, because it does more damage and has a much bigger reach, so you can score deadlier Toxin procs as well as burst multiple Spores on each swing. You'd be able to stack up more damage faster with the Atterax than the Ichors.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Gurpgork

[RealPandemonium]

44 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

lthough Atterax is probably better on Saryn, because it does more damage and has a much bigger reach, so you can score deadlier Toxin procs as well as burst multiple Spores on each swing. You'd be able to stack up more damage faster with the Atterax than the Ichors.

I use Twin Basolk slide attacks.  Reliable high status chance combined with good slide damage.  

 

The funny part of this is, if Saryn had an armor scaling bandaid, none of her detractors would have a leg to stand on.  However, they just brutishly say things like "trash" and "no place on a team" instead of talking about how the game actually works.  

Edited March 12, 2016 by RealPandemonium