Bursa Feedback

[Chaosdreamer]

5 hours ago, Trichouette said:

Immortal...? IMMORTAL ?

Come on already.

Just use any CC and shoot behind and you're done.

They're nowhere close to immortal.

 

Nullifier totally remove all use to low rate of fire weapon as long as you're playing a frame that can't enter that bubble. (chroma for example).

Try doing sortie when you get few bursa to ambush you and not stopping doing bump (blue circle) until you die

Nullifier? really just rush in bubble and cut him , did you forgot what Teshin said about that ? ;) , Nullifier just being extremly annoying to turn off my power / cancel stuff not much a deal anymore

[Flirk2]

10 hours ago, mael9740 said:

Bursas are ok. They are hard to deal with, but they can drop these uber rare mods.

Did you ever get even one rare mod from a bursa? I know I did not.

10 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Same reason they have no effect on ramparts.

Because DE thinks it adds extra challenge, when it's really just bland, binary and inconsistent, as well as a cheap replacement for proper mechanics.

Actually an arrow from a bow punches through ramparts (at least through the window in them). Bursa? "No-no-no-no. That would be too humane"

10 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

 I could only get 2 bursas spawning per mission. People asked how to effectively farm bursas for the vessel. Answers were corpus missions like the sabotage or exterminate and that was what i did...Still somehow people get so many bursas in there mission?

Bursa are in the same table as scrambus and comba, it seems. If you go to Triton and stay after 400 cryotic you will start to see them. Sometimes in pares. I fulfilled the quest's bursa requirement by doing 3 Triton runs for 1100 cryotic. And that quest needed a specific type of bursa, not just any bursa.

Io at waves 10 and up is also a place where I saw bursa regularly.

10 hours ago, Valsako said:

You can get Tempo Royale and Astral Twilight from killing them, that's a pretty nice reward. But I guess we can't have tough enemies we actually see other than once in a blue moon (like manics).

Bursas really aren't that hard to kill, you just need to apply a different kind of thinking when it comes to fighting them. I own every frame in the game, so I just went to the Simulacrum and tested each and every frame against level 75 Bursas to see just what ones could beat them. The only frames that couldn't beat a Bursa were Hydroid and Nekros. Hydroid is well known for needing buffs, and Nekros isn't that great either outside of his ability to summon bigger loot.

The only things I agree with you on is that the missile barrage deals a little too much damage and the knockdown AoE thing needs to be changed because it's kinda BS as it currently is. Otherwise, this is just yet another "Bursas come at me too much rather than be a total rarity, and I don't know how to get behind things or use other tactics other than standing in one spot and spraying my Soma until it dies, fix it DE" topic.

Seriously, we need more enemy types in this game, but every time they introduce a new enemy type, people whine because it's actually able to kill them. But when they keep it as just the enemies that shoot like a storm trooper and deal 2 damage per hit, everyone complains because the game is too easy. I honestly feel bad for the devs having to deal with it.

1) How many Tempo Royal or Astral Twilight stances did you get from them, may I ask?

2) Nekros, they say, can terrify a bursa and it runs away, showing it's backside to the Nekros rather conveniently...

3)There is no tactic to use (apart from the "abandon mission" one) that will enable you to deal with 5 level 70 bursa in one room. You can stay invisible. And they won't hurt you. But you can't hurt them much either. Because there is no weapon in the game with enough damage to kill those in one magazine (while aiming for the weak spot)....

4)Problem with bursa most people have is not that bursa can kill them. It's that bursa are spawning faster then any other enemy, and that they can't kill the bursa even when aiming for the weak spot if the bursa is 70 level or higher. Basically it's a boss-type unit only it comes in numbers and has more durability and weapons then any boss in the game.

10 hours ago, SnakeWildlife said:

Exactly man, if you have more than the normal count of Bursa's, you have been spawning them delibrately due to ignoring security camera's and obvious neglect of your situation.

Security cameras do nothing. Why do people insist on them being the reason for bursa to spawn is beyond me by this point. They set the alarms off. And please go to Io and stay till wave 20 a couple of times. Count the bursa. Then tell me more about how shooting the cameras will fix the bursa situation. Or go excavate some on Triton. That will work too.

 

P. S.

And by the way. Survival on Jupiter doesn't spawn bursa. We tested it with a clan-mate once. But it did not spawn comba either. And on Io with the full team you have special 2 units for wave 10. Sometimes it's 2 comba, sometimes it's comba and bursa, and sometimes it's 2 bursa. But don't tell me that bursa are on the same level of durability and general annoying as those comba and scrambus.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Flirk2
Added P.S.

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

9 hours ago, bolivianhighcommander said:

So you admit that turning off alarms promptly (and destroying cameras) solves the problem in most cases?

Yay...already the bursa issue has been mostly solved.

Which was my point all along. 

Please for the sake of not having this thread locked again don't talk to me or push your opinions on to me. I don't care what you or any other negative nancy has to say for the way you have acted towards me. Don't talk to me. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by LittleArachnid

[Trichouette]

1 hour ago, Chaosdreamer said:

Try doing sortie when you get few bursa to ambush you and not stopping doing bump (blue circle) until you die

Nullifier? really just rush in bubble and cut him , did you forgot what Teshin said about that ? ;) , Nullifier just being extremly annoying to turn off my power / cancel stuff not much a deal anymore

I have no idea what you're playing but you've got to be a crisp to die from being bumped.

And nullifiers are far more common than bursas, at some point they're as common as tech corpus, and once again, they require you to enter the bubble OR carry a high RoF weapon.

And at some point there are bubbles everywhere, and when you're playing a frame that rely on spells... you're doomed.

Bursas only require a CC or distraction which is... easier.

[Verdegrand]

1 hour ago, LittleArachnid said:

Please for the sake of not having this thread locked again

Again? If another thread like this one/this thread was locked a first time then maybe it should be locked again since it seems like people are taking things a little too personally in here and can't take the things other people say with a grain of salt.

This whole thread is basically 50/50 people saying Bursas are too hard and people saying they aren't.

I think the bottom line is that whether or not you're responsible for spawning a Bursa in the first place, there are MANY ways in which you can deal with them once they have spawned that have been pointed out in this thread and they really don't need to be nerfed.

It's pretty evident that the people saying they are too hard are too ill-equipped to handle them.

People need to be rethinking their loadouts when they expect to be going up against Bursas and if people are still having problems with Bursas when they have an entire squad with them then clearly that squad isn't coordinating or synergizing well enough with each other.

Bursas are fine.

Anyone claiming Bursas are too hard from this point on should post pics of their loadout imo. I'm really curious to see what Warframes and weapons and mods these people are using in these Corpus sorties.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Verdegrand

[LazyKnight]

47 minutes ago, Verdegrand said:

Bursas are fine.

Anyone claiming Bursas are too hard from this point on should post pics of their loadout imo. I'm really curious to see what Warframes and weapons and mods these people are using in these Corpus sorties.

Go to the simulator and summon a level 100 bursa, of the drover type, and then tell me their damage is fine.  Here the short version: CC level 100 drovers, never be in front of them or die.

The primary place the bursa are broken are sorties, and don't be lazy go in the simulator and spawn a few  level 100 at once along with some other trash NPCs and record your overpowered rolling skill or other whatever trick of taking more than one at a time and what it requires. Let me guess you'll CC them and kill them, and then claim they are easy, right? 

Bursa are NOT reliant on the alarm being on defense, excavation or survival for them to be on the spawn table. I do not know why people are posting that junk rumor when only game mode that alarms matter is exterminate and to a lesser extent spy.  There is NO way to stop them from coming unless RNG rolls some other trash NPCs when the NPC are on an alert state because of mission type. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Verdegrand]

1 minute ago, LazyKnight said:

Go to the simulator and summon a level 100 bursa, of the drover type, and then tell me their damage is fine.

It's avoidable damage so what's the problem? If you don't like how hard they hit then don't get hit by one. You have plenty of tools at your disposal to dispose of enemies at a distance, without taking damage yourself.

Warframe's engine and control mechanics arguably grant you the highest level of maneuverability of any game like it that I've seen. Why are you taking Bursa damage when you can basically fly around them?

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

Some think that bursas need to be tweaked to be fairer and others think they're fine. That's fine to have either opinions. A good loadout can be anything, from a mag modded for Crush and Shield Polarise with a tonkor, twin grakatas and a broken war modded for magnetic and blast. I don't think there's anything wrong with people expressing that the spawn rate and hitboxes need to be tweaked for the bursas. Personally I think that tweak would keep them a challenge but also more reasonable to even new players and experienced players alike, and isn't that fair enough, you still have that challenge of killing them but others have a more positive experience when dealing with the bursas?

Edited March 19, 2016 by LittleArachnid

[LazyKnight]

@Verdegrand

They fire a cluster bombardment  at range. Direct hit, and even grazing hit, is most likely instant death for most frames at level 80-100, never mind the ground sphere that does damage over time that kills just as fast. The only safe spot to be with them is behind them. If anything they acquire target too quickly, if they had a visual indicator they are about to fire or something of that nature it would be reasonable (time to get behind them).

Spawn them in the simulator play with them without CC, it's just not what I would call fun.

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Verdegrand]

26 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

@Verdegrand

They fire a cluster bombardment  at range. Direct hit, and even grazing hit, is most likely instant death for most frames at level 80-100, never mind the ground sphere that does damage over time that kills just as fast. The only safe spot to be with them is behind them. If anything they acquire target too quickly, if they had a visual indicator they are about to fire or something of that nature it would be reasonable (time to get behind them).

 

The cluster rockets have limited range and large spread. Once you are a certain distance away from them they are rendered useless. Your frame can travel faster than the rockets can travel and it's not difficult at all to deny the rockets of line-of-sight by purposely getting the bursa to shoot at you as you run behind nearby cover. However I wouldn't recommend stopping behind whatever object or obstacle it is you are luring the rockets in to and instead keep running to avoid the blast. By the time you've gained this distance there's more than enough time for you to take your time to counter-attack the Bursa before it launches another attack against you.

Bursas are only fast going in a straight line and their maneuverability is equal to a steaming pile of dog poo. It's really easy to overtake them in combat just by being highly mobile yourself.
 

26 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Spawn them in the simulator play with them without CC, it's just not what I would call fun.

I'm sure it isn't fun but the point of Bursas is in the first place is to put a little bit of pressure on you and I'm not going to purposely handicap myself by not CCing a Bursa when CCing them is one of the key tactics in defeating them. Why would you choose not to bring CC to a mission where you know how utterly valuable it is?

If you wanna do that in solo-play to challenge yourself then go ahead. But in a squad with other people during sorties? That's just a d-bag move. You should always be bringing frames and weapons with you that contribute to your team.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Verdegrand

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

13 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Yes, lets make them a non issue like manics

I hope they leave them alone long enough for Console players to get a chance to fight them in their Current state. I don't want them to end up like manics, when first introduced they where nice Baby-Mini-Bosses. 

But now they're more of an evasive fodder than anything IMPO.

[(PSN)StarDustKillah]

13 hours ago, Valsako said:

You can get Tempo Royale and Astral Twilight from killing them, that's a pretty nice reward. But I guess we can't have tough enemies we actually see other than once in a blue moon (like manics).

Bursas really aren't that hard to kill, you just need to apply a different kind of thinking when it comes to fighting them. I own every frame in the game, so I just went to the Simulacrum and tested each and every frame against level 75 Bursas to see just what ones could beat them. The only frames that couldn't beat a Bursa were Hydroid and Nekros. Hydroid is well known for needing buffs, and Nekros isn't that great either outside of his ability to summon bigger loot.

The only things I agree with you on is that the missile barrage deals a little too much damage and the knockdown AoE thing needs to be changed because it's kinda BS as it currently is. Otherwise, this is just yet another "Bursas come at me too much rather than be a total rarity, and I don't know how to get behind things or use other tactics other than standing in one spot and spraying my Soma until it dies, fix it DE" topic.

Seriously, we need more enemy types in this game, but every time they introduce a new enemy type, people whine because it's actually able to kill them. But when they keep it as just the enemies that shoot like a storm trooper and deal 2 damage per hit, everyone complains because the game is too easy. I honestly feel bad for the devs having to deal with it.

I never knew the gave them such a good loot-table. That sorta explains why I'm seeing so many players saying they're too buff lol.

Their guarding all the good loot lol

Edited March 19, 2016 by (PS4)StarDustKillah

[7869]

I find bursas fairly easy to kill with mag;Just cast bullet attractor and 1 shot with sancti tigris(or weapon with similar firepower). The problem with them for me though is that bursas aren't very rewarding to hack/kill; Mainly because they hardly(if ever) drop anything good. Also, hacking them seems to severely weaken them and causes them to die quickly;Therefore, just really not worth the effort.

Edit: Yeah, the extended knock down is kinda bs(As many have already pointed out).

Edited March 19, 2016 by 7869

[LazyKnight]

39 minutes ago, Verdegrand said:

I'm sure it isn't fun but the point of Bursas is in the first place is to put a little bit of pressure on you and I'm not going to purposely handicap myself by not CCing a Bursa when CCing them is one of the key tactics in defeating them. Why would you choose not to bring CC to a mission where you know how utterly valuable it is?

If you use Warframe's CC, then a level 100 bursa is an effortless free kill (assuming you have a weapon with some mods). With CC, they are nothing more than a tedious NPC that needs numerous high powered shots in the back to kill, and it is trivial boring game play to dispose of in a setting of CC. Although, it's kind of a bummer for warframes that do not have their own CC.

I am just getting tired of this CC or instant death game-play, I do not find it fun at all. I am not going to try to argue this point anymore, if CC is valid then, that's that. Deal with it by cheesing them or eat revives, i see.

Edited March 19, 2016 by LazyKnight

[Verdegrand]

20 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

Deal with it by cheesing them or eat revives, i see.

If Warframe was real life and I possessed the same abilities as a Warframe then I'd be killing Bursas them by cheesing them too...just sayin'.

I mean they're basically miniature tanks - deal with them as quickly and as efficiently as possible or prepare to face the consequences of allowing them to live long enough.

20 minutes ago, LazyKnight said:

it's kind of a bummer for warframes that do not have their own CC.

Weapons can be modded to provide CC. CC is only 1 way to deal with them. The Cold status is a great way of CCing a Bursa. They can also be dealt with by being out-maneuvered...the choice is yours to make.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Verdegrand

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

Why should it only be CC warframes that can effectively beat bursas than non CC frames if we're on the whole topic of it. This would render non CC frames useless which makes certain ones "useless" in corpus missions. Valkyr's hysteria easily knocks them out even in sorties but she's just one example of a non- CC frame that can deal with them. Nekro's 2nd ability (can't remember name off the top of my head) can scare them. How about the discussion turned to what non- CC frames can effectively deal with them? And yes, I still maintain that bursas need to be tweaked but only a little bit, the hitbox and their spawn rate reduced even a little bit. Keep the, a challenge, but not too challenging that even new players can deal with them.

 

[DeccanTraps]

We are hitting a problem here though.

If CC is used, Bursas become it can be agreed an easy but lengthily and boring kill. That's a failure because in that time which there's a lot of, players could be doing things that are not boring yes?

If CC is not used Bursas are vindictively, unpleasantly hard, which is a failure as its exactly the kind of thing that makes people burnout.

I'm all for challenge but corpus maps are no longer fun to me. We need a solution that preserves the challenge, and makes them more entertaining to fight.

[LazyKnight]

@LittleArachnid

The non-cc bad Warframes that come to mind are Oberon, Zephyr and Mesa. They are not set up to stun them on command (Mesa, is RNG) and, at the same time, give the player enough time to get behind a bursa. Not saying it's impossible, but they are really bad choices. I am sure there are other Warframes that are bad at it killing them, i just haven't tried them all anddo not currently own a few.

The key to killing them effortlessly is having something like Volt's shock that can stun them, letting you get behind them. 

[JoramOraka]

Never had a problem with Bursas, just have to get in close. You can easily circle around them as long as you constantly move, allowing easy access to their weakest spots. Almost all their abilities have clear telegraphs to dodge. This really only works reliably up to 40 or 50, but for missions higher level than that why not group up? Just because you can solo 100+ enemies doesn't mean those missions should be balanced around solo play - and I say this as a solo player.

[chuckdm]

I would still rather fight 3 level 40 Bursas, alone, with nothing but a Skana and a MK1-Braton on an unranked frame, than bring my best loadout to Draco and attempt in vain to survive 2 Hyekkas at once.

Bursas just require good aim to shoot over/between the shields, nothing more.  Stop modding all your guns with negative accuracy and you can take them out with 20 bullets from a Prisma Grakata or even less from a Soma Prime, either one from well outside their shockwave range.  People seem to forget that there are no mods that increase accuracy (except shotguns) and Heavy Call and its ilk decrease it.  A Soma Prime without Heavy Cal is tantamount to a sniper rifle.  With Heavy Cal, it's fine at 30m but it becomes less spray and more pray in a hurry beyond that.  And it's still very, very lethal without Heavy Cal.

The only change Bursas need is that when you hack the panel on their backs, THAT should turn off the alarms on the level, too.  That way it's MUCH easier to stop them from spawning.  And if you (like me) actually enjoy them, just set off another alarm and wait 2 minutes.

Nothing else about them is a problem.  Any other issues are player error.

EDIT: Before someone pounces on me, the 20 bullets is obviously sarcasm.  The point remains, though.  Accurate fire is all that is needed to defeat a Bursa.  People are so used to World on Fire, Bladestorm, etc. that doesn't require any aim that when they find an enemy they actually have to AIM AT they totally crap their pants.  Grow up, people.

Edited March 19, 2016 by chuckdm

[Necrius]

The worst part of this was shown by Rebecca on devstream 71. "Oh, a Bursa! Screw that, I'm outta here. *dies*". And they don't consider this an issue.

[Verdegrand]

9 hours ago, Necrius said:

The worst part of this was shown by Rebecca on devstream 71. "Oh, a Bursa! Screw that, I'm outta here. *dies*". And they don't consider this an issue.

She wasn't even properly modded for the level. She was versing Corpus enemies and didn't even have Shield Transference. Please try to come up with a better example than this. She was only there to demonstrate the Mag rework and show off the new weapons - who knows what mods she had on. She was also literally just standing there soaking up Bursa damage. The reworked bullet Attractor went down and the Bursa's rockets were not contained.

Were you even watching the stream? Be honest.

If you're going to make a point here at least don't blatantly omit information.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Verdegrand

[Necrius]

9 minutes ago, Verdegrand said:

She wasn't even properly modded for the level. She was versing Corpus enemies and didn't even have Shield Transference. Please try to come up with a better example than this. She was only there to demonstrate the Mag rework and show off the new weapons - who knows what mods she had on. She was also literally just standing there soaking up Bursa damage. The reworked bullet Attractor went down and the Bursa's rockets were not contained.

Where you even watching the stream? Be honest.

If you're going to make a point here at least don't blatantly omit information.

Some people may not have "proper mods" and still encounter a damn bursa. They also may not have a noob-friendly frame and may not know/use cheesy tactics/guns people use to excuse bursas being as crappy and imbalanced as they are. My post was about developer not seeing a problem with their imbalanced units despite encountering them. They just don't care and bursas will stay as it is.

[Verdegrand]

1 hour ago, Necrius said:

They just don't care and bursas will stay as it is.

[Suchy1555]

Ok, OP here again. Thanks for so many replies - more replies, bigger chance to be noticed by DE. I wanted to aswer to few of your responses.

First, responses like "it can be bypassed / it can be done using this+this+this+this". Guys, this isn't about breaking the gam with bad mechanics, but playing the game with good mechanics (or more like waiting for good mechanics).

Second - yes Bursas can be avoided, when you keep the alarms off. But sometimes you just can't prevent it, because Crewman in the next room heard you and triggered alarm. And boom - Bursa. I could roll with that idea if we had really good stealth mechanics. Current stealth is improving but is still bad and slow. Why I say slow? Let's move to the third issue.

Last problem is stealth itself. When it's good idea to put veeeery hard enemy in stealth game, that is triggered by alarms, it's bad idea in a game that isn't so much stealth oriented. And let's just say it - Warframe is game about grind, about finding things that need many attepts to find, and no one wants to complete missions so slow. Everyone rushes. And so I don't get replies like "Bursas prevents trigger-happy rushers"... really? You need to rush this game all the time.