Buzkyl Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Just now, SquireAngel said: Armor scaling is being changed in damage 3.0, so only valid for a while longer. Scotty boy has Saryn remade with this in mind Citation, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddDeer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 1 minute ago, SquireAngel said: -snip- they said lolno. Actually wrong. Devstream 61 confirmed a revisit to the rework after "she had marinated" and it's been almost 10 devstreams since. I'm waiting for my promised second look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddDeer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 She's stronger if you count her 1 being vastly better and her 4 doing about 1k more damage over all but at the cost of it take 4 times as long to deliver. her 2 and 3 are still mediocre at best, her 2 only being used to proc regenerative molt. Why she was balanced around EVERYONE using that mod is beyond logical. If your feedback thread for a rework has over 130 pages, which saryn's did, with constructive feedback when the next highest thread only has 20-something. There might be an inkling of truth that she still needs work to fit her theme. Her kit has been designed around melee debuffer with an explosive finisher. However her 1 is a better finisher than her her finisher, she's too squishy to be in melee even with 3 active because you can't melee AND block at the same time. And you can't apply the 3rd type of poison debuff, corrosive, with her kit despite being thematically correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawGritz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 More Saryn testing for melee-centric viability. Eventually I dumped Regen Molt and opted for lifestrike. Shadow Debt goodness on the Nikana Prime. No firearm use at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddDeer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, RawGritz said: More Saryn testing for melee-centric viability. Eventually I dumped Regen Molt and opted for lifestrike. Shadow Debt goodness on the Nikana Prime. No firearm use at all. level 60 and 85 isn't endgame in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivlr3vil Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said: While entitled to your opinion, you're wrong about 40 minutes being endgame. That's joke worthy That's a crutch to make up for her massive weakeness My fully charged celestia syandana says hello. PvP is a joke right now with people running out the clock because no one can catch other people due to endless parkour spam. I played a lot of banshee before saryn's rework and I can solidly say she is easily 5x better than saryn in every way. I don't understand how that is joke worthy, nor do you fully provide a counter argument as to why I'm wrong. With that said, you're wrong, it's viable because it hits rotation C and most people couldn't be arsed to go up to 60 minutes because of real life or other things. Not like endgame is defined anyway, it's an endless mode that doesn't end, how can you even standardize endgame or balance what is infinite? I wouldn't call six hours a good definition of endgame if that's how far you want to go, people do have lives outside of the game. Fair point about the crutch, since her energy usage is her weakness and only weakness, which is actually only on her Miasma. Do you just spam 4 all day? I thought they were balancing to stop spam 4. I mean, if you want to press 4 to win and not shoot, fine by me. Her first three abilities don't eat up as much energy. In max efficiency builds, her Miasma eats the most energy, at 25 energy for one cast. This isn't that far off from basically any ultimate at max efficiency, so you're wrong. Please tell me where you measured "5x" better and in "every way" from. Having 15 armor compared to Saryn's 225 armor isn't 5x better, it's actually 5x worse by one stat alone. I've used banshee and know of her so called sonar damage multiplier, I have a chorus helmet and know her benefits. Try using her for a solo T4 S and you'll realize 40 minutes into the game solo and if you're caught off guard by a bombard missile, chances are you will die. Saryn can just tank that missile like it's nothing. The game is already on easy mode anyway, four revives per mission instead of every 24 hours. I said this a long time ago, I wanted revives entirely gone and if people die, it's the end. At best, offer revives only for raids because people don't even bother reviving others anymore. Everything got dumbed down in difficulty and all they did was introduce more power creep, which in my opinion, seems like you want that for Saryn too. Edited March 21, 2016 by ivlr3vil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawGritz Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said: level 60 and 85 isn't endgame in the slightest. I never mentioned end game, which doesn't exist in this game any way. Just showing what Sayrn is capable of with ease without even using firearms. Now if someone were to add there high "end game" firearms, Galatines and Redeemers to the mix, Saryn can take T4 survival solo to 90min by my account--maybe more for more skilled players. Edited March 21, 2016 by RawGritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddDeer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 " Please tell me where you measured "5x" better and in "every way" from " Spore is effectively double damage. Sonar, at it's base 5x damage. That's only 2.5 times but sonar scales with power strength. Saryn is just as squishy in endgame, which I consider to be past 80 minutes in an endless mission, and will die in 1 shot from a bombard as well. That's why every frame that isn't loki, valkyr or trinity uses naramon to SURVIVE that damage and at that point it becomes a DPS race to get enough life support drops and towers, which are based on kills, to spawn and banshee easily wins that race. Also it is a good market strategy to make the game more accessible as a whole, without dumbing it down to nothing, as that attracts more players and therefore more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratego89 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I don't recall Saryn getting a nerf. Only buffs. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) http://puu.sh/nP8To/1c4ea9645f.jpg closest one to me was an Ember with a Tonkor and we could easily gone 20 more waves at least the other ones were Slova and ev trin and this was before Focus was around Edited March 21, 2016 by Helch0rn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddDeer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Helch0rn said: http://puu.sh/nP8To/1c4ea9645f.jpg closest one to me was an Ember with a Tonkor and we could easily gone 20 more waves at least the other ones were Slova and ev trin and this was before Focus was around you're using an ignis, most likely a gas one, against infested. The EASIEST FACTION with units that are weak to gas. No wonder you did as much as a tonkor. Only proves my point that saryn is dependent on certain weapons to do well On the other hand, i think I'll go start a thread on how to possibly change saryn for her confirmed revisit so that she fits her theme of melee debuffer better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SofeSNBR Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 OP you so clearly have no freakking idea what you are talking about. Even prior rework she wasnt a tank, hell stats wise she is slightly more tanky due minor armor buff. Using combination of 2,1,3 you can spread viral and toxin to half away town really, really easily and also get your +200% damage to miasma right away. Heck even with small tuning those using combo of those 3 you kill out entire towns even without corrosive projections up to lvl 60+ enemies easily. Her rework has amazing synergy between abilities and is quite honestly one of best rework so far, this isnt opinion its a simple fact. Heck mechanics wise, she is one of best ones. All abilities either buffs others or work with other, either quaranteed spore spread with toxic slash, booby trapped molt, miasma exploding molt etc. As for "forced regenetive molt build" Number 1: was there ever any reason NOT to have regenetive molt augment? no number 2: Was it ever more complex than slap regenetive molt + intensify on saryn and profit? no. So i dont see how this is so impossible feat to do. As for energy problem... streamline and flow/primed flow is a thing... again you probably had at least streamline allready. Honestly only thing what i "had to change" on my saryn after rework was sacrifice some strength and effiency(fleeting) and replace those with flow and range/more duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Just now, ThatOddDeer said: you're using an ignis, most likely a gas one, against infested. The EASIEST FACTION with units that are weak to gas. No wonder you did as much as a tonkor. Only proves my point that saryn is dependent on certain weapons to do well On the other hand, i think I'll go start a thread on how to possibly change saryn for her confirmed revisit so that she fits her theme of melee debuffer better. Yes my Ignis is using Gas Damage BUT (and that is a huge but) funny thing is: I modded my Ignis for pure status chance that day, no serration only Multishot and all of the mods that increase status chance since I wanted to test if the toxin proc that gets spread by Spores when they pop stack, as you can propably guess it did not deal much damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellmaker2004 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said: you're using an ignis, most likely a gas one, against infested. The EASIEST FACTION with units that are weak to gas. No wonder you did as much as a tonkor. Only proves my point that saryn is dependent on certain weapons to do well On the other hand, i think I'll go start a thread on how to possibly change saryn for her confirmed revisit so that she fits her theme of melee debuffer better. Toxic Lash + Spore says hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)SofeSNBR Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 17 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said: level 60 and 85 isn't endgame in the slightest. Well endgame still doesnt even exist so.... sorties and trials are mere attempts. Even still lvl100+ enemies or what ever you count as non-exsistant endgame still get big hurt when you halve their health. Take banshee with ya and you have enemies with no armor and halved health, kidnap loki for disarming and victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 4 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said: That, in theory, should work but in fact it does not. If you take a crit melee with toxic lash into the simulacrum you'll notice that spores are bugged beyond belief when it comes to popping mechanics. If you kill a target with the instance of damage that inflicts the toxin proc, not only do you not get the energy for popping all 3 spores with toxic lash you also don't spread any toxin damage whatsoever. It spreads the viral and that's it. In order for the toxic lash+spore combo to spread toxin enemies need to be able to take tens of thousands of damage through ridiculous armor scaling and then the whole toxin damage spreading becomes a moot point anyways as the ticks do less than 100 damage when my slash procs are the only thing killing things that are over level 250 and are covered in armor. This is a legitimate concern that is hardly discussed in these threads. People are too caught up in arguing over what "endgame" is and whether things are subjectively "good" or not, and they overlook a key issue with the rework that was never acknowledged, let alone addressed. 1 hour ago, ThatOddDeer said: level 60 and 85 isn't endgame in the slightest. What is? 100? What's the difference besides more broken armor scaling and punitive 1-shot damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said: That, in theory, should work but in fact it does not. If you take a crit melee with toxic lash into the simulacrum you'll notice that spores are bugged beyond belief when it comes to popping mechanics. If you kill a target with the instance of damage that inflicts the toxin proc, not only do you not get the energy for popping all 3 spores with toxic lash you also don't spread any toxin damage whatsoever. It spreads the viral and that's it. In order for the toxic lash+spore combo to spread toxin enemies need to be able to take tens of thousands of damage through ridiculous armor scaling and then the whole toxin damage spreading becomes a moot point anyways as the ticks do less than 100 damage when my slash procs are the only thing killing things that are over level 250 and are covered in armor. The basic mechanic also includes a reset. The second spore only activates the additional burst damage after it got another poison procc after the first. This is most likely a measure to avoid just popping multiple spores, just another reason to use lashed melee. The strongest way to go at her is also the most effective one. No poison spread because you don't notice it? Please, just join a corpus sortie and come again. Best case one with augumented shields. Ty. And is the armor of lvl 250 enemys now rly the way to measure damage? A mean to argument against easily the strongest damaging ability in the game? What if i mention cp now? Why would you even fight lvl 250 armored targets without cp?... Edited March 22, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) press4 to win has gone, hurray! now it is the age of press 1 to win, seriouly? isn't that makes the rework pointless? to stop people keep using just 1 skill? we need ability that works on their own, not depends on other abilities spores now fine, molt needs some tweak(basically it works exactly the same practically as it was before rework) but toxic lash is pointless on its own, it doesn't make saryn melee viable, even combining with molt(don't tell me y u no shadowstep, I can make hydroid work with shadowstep too) miasma depends 2 other abilities to finally do some acceptable damage, and super underwhleming CC, I don't care damage , but can you at least more utility? Edited March 22, 2016 by akira_him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripletriple Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said: What about cast lash, spore enemys or molt, attack with melee, reap the additional popp damage and the higher spread poison, which also reflects in popping spores radial as you obliberate a whole map. Using spores basedamage on draco can hardly be considered "winning" Yeah have fun with that useless strategy. I'll just press 1 button to get the same results. Then let my team mates do the rest. Half hp on all the mobs is definitely not pressing 1 to win. Right. Wiping the entire draco map with 1 button is not 1 to win. Old Saryn couldn't do that before. So how is that not the same as, or worse as press 4 to win. Edited March 22, 2016 by tripletriple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClinkzEastwood Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, tripletriple said: Yeah have fun with that useless strategy. I'll just press 1 button to get the same results. Then let my team mates do the rest. Half hp on all the mobs is definitely not pressing 1 to win. Right. Wiping the entire draco map with 1 button is not 1 to win. Old Saryn couldn't do that before. So how is that not the same as, or worse as press 4 to win. Pressing 1 alone won't do S#&$. In fact, I challege you to complete a sortie mission without pressing anything but asdw space and 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)aiptekfanboy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 3 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said: Pressing 1 alone won't do S#&$. In fact, I challege you to complete a sortie mission without pressing anything but asdw space and 1. Wrong button its r1 to use soma prime , boltor prime , quanta, etc to finish sortie pressing 1 button for kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deejudanne Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 She isnt nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)aiptekfanboy Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said: Naramon kinda makes you difficult to kill you as invisible frames are impossible to be targeted. Sooo your saryn, not only benefiting from other peoples CC but also doing and supporting damage won't die and leave with the highest score. Never played loki i assume? That useless mf isn't considered god-tier for no reason. Invisibility is one. Except the moment saryn tries to activate an aircan it dies due to invisibility gone unlike rhino frost mirage nyx who just do not care due to cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CoolD2108 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said: Except the moment saryn tries to activate an aircan it dies due to invisibility gone unlike rhino frost mirage nyx who just do not care due to cc You never actually played naramon did ya. The duration is more then enough to fire an aircan. Some dude in another thread put a screen on from a 125 min solo survival with just this kinda build and strategy. Your argument is invalid. Edit: there you go Edited March 22, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)xKAIOWAx Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Why we dont try make friendship with all enemies factions? We can drink tea talk about poneys... Im really dont understand what the problem some ppls see in kill enemies , fast or slow, this game need change this stupid kill score to stop this concept about kill disputes , this s a co op game if someone kill fast , help him to kill faster , help him you help team and youself , this s not difficult to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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