To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[LogaMC1995]

13 minutes ago, zValor said:

or we can just accept that some frames are male and some are female and move on with life.

^This.

 

Case solved. Close thread. Go outside.

[arch111]

Ok. LOVE to get everyones opinion on this. For obvious reasons this was the fastest way to do a helm swap. 

Here we see how the body is slimmer, but feet and hands are at level. 

[RadioLarity]

9 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

The thread right now.

OP, are you okay with that? 
With that pretty much clickbaity title, that will make certain users ignore the content of what has been discussed?

PS: I have made my two points with that. I am sure the majority of players do not OPPOSE IT (dang it, use different word, will ya?), but the current climate of the game makes the idea shine in bad light. And pushing it to Steam would be

Yeah, I was hoping for something else tbh, there are the same arguments thrown around multiple times and ppl are pretty much irreformable which makes this thread pretty pointless.
I don't know if that's my fault that ppl just only see their point of view as the only one that is right. And on top of that ppl just skip the whole thread.
That wasn't the point of it, but on the other hand- what else could you hope for?

EDIT: Yeah there are pros and cons for that idea, I understand that, but still... I was watching this game evolve for a long time and with the current direction genderswap isn't something that doesn't fit.
PS: It's more about Fashion Frame and powering through levels.
I'm out of arguments.
EDIT#2: Ok, I'm not. They just wouldn't get through to ppl.

Edited March 22, 2016 by RadioLarity

[Deejudanne]

So equinox is a guy afterall? ^Kappa_pride

[MagPrime]

8 hours ago, zValor said:

or we can just accept that some frames are male and some are female and move on with life.

Or we can also accept that there is little to no lore to support or explain the genders for frames and be okay with talking about new possibilities , instead of shooting down ideas we don't like just for the sake of shooting them down.

[Currilicious]

11 hours ago, Postal_pat said:

Which would require DE's work, the point of using tennogen was to get around DE using resources on this idea.

Quite frankly as a consumer I do not concern myself in how DE as a company manage their resources.

What I do care about is how these features are being marketed. If it feels fair and not a cash grab, I will consider giving DE some cash.

 

[MagPrime]

10 hours ago, notlamprey said:

This is a terrible idea. Potatos come from the ground, and are therefore best thrown at ground-dwelling creatures.

Everybody knows that.

picks up rock from the ground

So....this is better?

[notlamprey]

2 hours ago, Noamuth said:

picks up rock from the ground

So....this is better?

Now, you could throw it at some birds - or - you could throw it at someone who doesn't agree with you. Either way, this thread is a target-rich environment.

[MagPrime]

20 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Now, you could throw it at some birds - or - you could throw it at someone who doesn't agree with you. Either way, this thread is a target-rich environment.

Well, my mamma always did say the best way to change someone's mind was with a rock.

[zValor]

5 hours ago, Noamuth said:

Or we can also accept that there is little to no lore to support or explain the genders for frames and be okay with talking about new possibilities , instead of shooting down ideas we don't like just for the sake of shooting them down.

theres also nothing supporting that the we can just make a new sex for warframes either thats why its lore breaking. If the primes are the originals how you gonna swing "we can just magically change everythings sex"? Do you expect a sex change for every prime warframe? what about those frames that fit a certain theme or figure from the past? nezha, wukong, loki etc are just gonna be girls now? I'm not shooting down something just because " I don't like it" just because its a new possibility doesn't make it a good one.

Edited March 22, 2016 by zValor
.

[OverlordMcGeek]

1 minute ago, zValor said:

theres also nothing supporting that the we can just make a new sex for warframes either thats why its lore breaking. If the primes are the originals how you gonna swing "we can just magically change everythings sex"? Do you expect a sex change for every prime warframe? what about those frames that fit a certain theme or figure from the past? nezha, wukong, loki etc are just gonna be girls now? I'm not shooting down something just because " I don't like it" just because its a new possibility doesn't make it a good one.

nothing supporting that there is any lore to break

[(XBOX)PopCactus218]

Per Chinese myth, lore, legend, Wukong is a male. He is known as the Monkey King. Changing his gender would be breaking lore and insulting an entire culture. 

[OverlordMcGeek]

Just now, (XB1)PopCactus218 said:

Per Chinese myth, lore, legend, Wukong is a male. He is known as the Monkey King. Changing his gender would be breaking lore and insulting an entire culture. 

You have gone outside and met humanity correct?

[zValor]

2 minutes ago, OverlordMcGeek said:

You have gone outside and met humanity correct?

please explain what that has to do with his point?

[OverlordMcGeek]

Just now, zValor said:

please explain what that has to do with his point?

That actually needs an explanation?

[(XBOX)PopCactus218]

13 minutes ago, OverlordMcGeek said:

You have gone outside and met humanity correct?

Let's see, would 23 years of military service count?

Just because some is knowledgeable about something,  doesn't mean they live in their parents basement. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by (XB1)PopCactus218
Added content

[MagPrime]

18 minutes ago, zValor said:

theres also nothing supporting that the we can just make a new sex for warframes either thats why its lore breaking. If the primes are the originals how you gonna swing "we can just magically change everythings sex"? Do you expect a sex change for every prime warframe? what about those frames that fit a certain theme or figure from the past? nezha, wukong, loki etc are just gonna be girls now? I'm not shooting down something just because " I don't like it" just because its a new possibility doesn't make it a good one.

There's nothing disproving our ability to make those changes, especially not in the lore. Also, as to Primes, I can see Primes being gender locked due to them being a limited run type thing, I'll give you that, but the other vanilla 'frames? Those weren't built around the Tenno.  They have no reproductive anything to match.  They can be used by any one of the Tenno, regardless of size or gender.

Again, there is no lore surrounding the 'frames that supports nor negates sexswapping, or even neutralization, of the Warframes.  This is just personal preference. 

12 minutes ago, zValor said:

please explain what that has to do with his point?

There's a thing called transgender, gender-fluid and androgyny, three things that you are basically arguing against being added to Warframe.  

[zValor]

13 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

There's nothing disproving our ability to make those changes, especially not in the lore. Also, as to Primes, I can see Primes being gender locked due to them being a limited run type thing, I'll give you that, but the other vanilla 'frames? Those weren't built around the Tenno.  They have no reproductive anything to match.  They can be used by any one of the Tenno, regardless of size or gender.

Again, there is no lore surrounding the 'frames that supports nor negates sexswapping, or even neutralization, of the Warframes.  This is just personal preference. 

There's a thing called transgender, gender-fluid and androgyny, three things that you are basically arguing against being added to Warframe.  

as far as we know every frame comes from a prime frame we just havent made it that far yet, and if the prime is a certain sex so should the normal frame. Also yea theres nothing disproving it but there nothing saying we can do either. you didnt address my point on theme based frames.

 I dont care if they added that stuff to warframe im arguing against changing frames that are already in the game, if de wants to make a frame thats genderfluid/trans more power to them. Also still doesnt answer how his question had anything to do with that guy pointing out wukongs origin and sex in mythology.

Edited March 22, 2016 by zValor

[MagPrime]

Just now, zValor said:

as far as we know every frame comes from a prime frame we just havent made it that far yet, and if the prime is a certain sex so should the normal frame. Also yea theres nothing disproving it but there nothing saying we can do either. you didnt address my point on theme based frames.

 I dont care if they added that stuff to warframe im arguing against changing frames that are already in the game, if de wants to make a frame thats genderfluid/trans more power to them.

Missed the themed ones; as to insulting a culture - I doubt the China build will ever see any swapping skins for Wukong or Nezha.  If we were truely concerned about potentially insulting an entire culture or 9, we wouldn't be using diefic names in the first place.  Also, the dieties these frames are named after are not representations of them, just a "hey, it kinda matches" situation.  Besides, many gods in many pantheons show up as whatever gender or species they want, so saying that we can't have a female Loki is absurd, the mythos of Loki has him changing into a female horse and giving birth.

And why should the vanilla be the same sex as the Prime?  One was made to actually be worn, the other was made to be a drone, not worn.  Why would sex characteristics even matter at that point?  The 'frames would still be fire/mag/frost/elec/etc. at the base, just cosmetically different.  I mean, it's like having a RC version of a Toyota truck with breasts attached to the front and then telling people they can't remove them - because the first version of that truck was meant to be a girl, so every version thereafter must maintain the breasts.

Also, this isn't about DE making the skins, they said that they're open to the possibility of community made alt skins.  DE would still have to approve anything that's made before it gets in game, and a good chance that Nezha and Wukong's versions would never make it in. 

[Doom_Bunny]

11 hours ago, Noamuth said:

There's a thing called transgender, gender-fluid and androgyny, three things that you are basically arguing against being added to Warframe.  

Gender identity can't really be added to any game besides a role playing game because it's up to the player as to what they identify as. We could say androgyny already exists in warframe with frames such as Nezha and Equinox, as it deals with the characteristics. If DE was to satisfy everyone and how they identify, it would take more then just male/female variants. Anything short of an rpg character maker without any restrictions would not suffice.

Denying people has come up a few times now. Although I can't speak for everyone, it's not about denying anyone. From what I've seen it's about the implications to what is already in-place. For most of the game people see the frames as individuals. People even give an identity to each frame through how they are played and their appearance/basic shape. Even with DE saying the frame is controlled by transference with the tenno. Players still don't see them as just suits but individual characters.

[arch111]

Even if a Prime was built for a specific HUMAN, the warframes are still built by assembly.

So if a chassis is cosmetically altered it should not change the powers in the systems. This explain Proto and Premium versions (yes this is just a game but we are talking lore here).

I get the attachement to a warframe.  Is Darth Vader a woman? Of course not. Is Loki a woman? Of course not.

But since Second Dream,  all my previous arguments melted like snow. I used to argue the warframes are unique. Then we got Transferrence. 

On top if that the Operator, I can change at will. Maby this is because the story painted us into a corner - first heroes, then suits,; now surrogates.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Mine is that the cosmetic appearance of my surrogate,  should match my Operator. IF I so choose.

For me a purchase of a female Loki- my starter - would be like getting to know him all over again. It would look and feel different since the size would be smaller, and would look different with cosmetics on, and colorings.

In the end, for me personally, the Lore would be unchanged. The Orokin made the Primes in the image of a person(vauban, Inaros) or god(loki, nyx, oberon, nezha, wukong) or force/element (frost, mag, ember, volt, zephyr, mirage, banshee, saryn) or legend/theme (excalibur,  mesa, ash, nekros, Trinity, ivara, rhino, valkyr, chroma, limbo, hydroid).

The Orokin/Tenno/Lotus built many custom warframes.

For me it is acceptable that there was a reason they crafted a female Loki-chassis. Like DE did, they built blueprints  for male and female, then they locked in one as the Default. If you want to override that setting, you must pay to do so.

This is my acceptable reasoning that put my mind at ease.

[letir]

2 hours ago, arch111 said:

Is Loki a woman? Of course not.

That's... questionable matter.