To everyone that has seen Devstream 71 and still oppose genderswap

[Ryouhi]

4 minutes ago, osheroth said:

I'm lost...did they hinted at the possibility of gender swap in devstream 71? 

Rebecca read a community question regarding the topic, but the devs still seemed rather opposed to the idea.
They shortly talked about tennogen being a possibility but even then.. probably not, because there's a whole lot of issues with the whole topic of alt-genders

[Katinka]

2 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Those Chinese would love to see their gods Wukong and Nezha to become female.

Or Atlas and Loki.

Loki female skin?  Do you know that the Norse god once took the form of a mare and also that of an old lady?

[That1Cactus]

Just now, Ryouhi said:

But take a look at this from a player getting fresh into the game.

Say you wanna play Volt because you like the electricity theme, though you would actually prefer playing as a female character.
You play the tutorial and like to play as him and get to your liset. You look around and later on find out about the market, and there you see an Alt-gender Skin for Volt.

You'll probably ask if the DEvs are out of their minds charging money for being able to choose your gender, if you have come from any kind of RPG where it's a global, free feature.

If i was a new player and i'd find out i have to pay money to get the gender i want? i'd quit the game immediately because that wouldn't bode well for the rest of the content.

 

Aside, at the moment TennoGen is restricted to Pc players only if i'm not mistaken - that would cause another big problem of consoles being left out...
 

I had the same mindset when I started playing and saw that you had to pay for more color options. And really the market is filled with stuff that would make you say "wow I have to pay money just for this?". Now yes that would become a problem if that was the case, but again the market is filled with it and again is very optional.

And yeah sadly TennoGen is for PC only at the moment, but DE has said many times that they are trying to get the TennoGen stuff onto the consoles. And probably by then there is that very very slim chance that they'll add body mesh stuff to TennGen. Either way though, it's DE's decision and they'll do whatever they feel. But again genderswap skins are not really big on the wishlist for me at least so it would not be a big deal if they did add or not. And I'm sure new players won't mind it either.

[Ryouhi]

1 minute ago, That1Cactus said:

I had the same mindset when I started playing and saw that you had to pay for more color options. And really the market is filled with stuff that would make you say "wow I have to pay money just for this?". Now yes that would become a problem if that was the case, but again the market is filled with it and again is very optional.

But those are just cosmetics, which are generally accepted to be only available for money in the free to play world.

Gender (while theoretically also cosmetic) is just such an integral part to character customization however, that it would be crazy to lock it behind a paywall.

 

Like when i first started playing i wanted those syandanas so badly, but i understood why they were Plat only.
Now that we have trading it's also much easier to get those cosmetics completely for free, with just a little bit of effort.

And i'm totally okay having to WAIT to get that cosmetic i want.
But having to wait till i can get enough plat from trading (which is more of a "mid-game" to "late-game" thing) to get the gender i wanted to choose?
That would be absolutely ludicrous

[Fukushu]

I always feel like games should allow players to make their characters look how they want so players can feel a better sense of immersion, while games that gender/race/class lock characters are dull and force players to choose something they know they won't enjoy, which usually leads to boredom rather quickly.

That being said, Warframe seems to be a weird exception to my standards, and while I prefer playing male Frames to get better immersion, I'm not against playing female Frames like Ivara since I really like her looks and powers. Would I like to be able to choose the "gender" of my Frames though? Honestly, I don't really know. There hasn't been a female Frame that came out with everything I wished a male Frame would have, nor the opposite, and even then I usually just make Frames into their own characters. Personally though, if we were ever to get a Grineer themed Frame or one that has a similar story to Valkyr and the Corpus, I'd really want it to be male so I could make it my main and enjoy the immersion, but if we were to get a female Grineer themed Frame, then I'd just make her into another character. Does that mean I'm against gender swapping Frames? Honestly no, I think it'd be pretty cool to see people play the Frame they want with the gender they want. Do I think DE should spend time and money on making gender swapped Frames? At some point, yes, but it's definitely not something so important the Devs should pull time away from making new quests and gear to work on instead. Do I think it should fall on the community and Tennogen? Well, that's where I see the major problem should this be implemented. If gender swapped Frames were to only be from Tennogen, then only those who play from Steam would be allowed to access them until DE can figure out how to get Tennogen items onto each platform, and while PC players could easily link their accounts to Steam, console players would be screwed out of getting what they want for (what I imagine will be) a very long time.

TL;DR

Yes, I'd like to see male and female skins for our Frames. No, I don't think DE should work on them right now. Yes, I think it'd be cool for DE to add a gender option to our Frames. No, I don't think gender swapping Frames should be left to Tennogen due to console players being left out.

[Insizer]

5 hours ago, lukshu said:

Honestly I don't want DE to waste time and money on this, when they can use those for developing new quests or the like.

Exactly. 

There are more than 25 frames (including primes) which would need new models for their body, their helm, and each of their alternative helms (including the tennogen helms). You then have to make new textures for every skin scheme (including tennogen skins) to work, and make new skin models and textures for every premium skin. You then have to manipulate every single attachment to fit the frame and locate where on the frame to fit it. You have to locate where you place every weapon type on each frame. Then you have the animation sets which may or may not need re-calibration. This entire process will consume the resources of the entire art team for months, bringing new weapon and frame development to all but a stand still. This would also cost a large amount of both invested capital and capital lost by not investing it into other projects... all to give us a product which would have to be free...

It makes no sense logistically or financially to make genderswaps at this point. This is a decision that is made early on in a game's development. Trying to undo it at this point is like trying to tear a massive tree out of the ground to rotate it 180 because you want to see its other side from your house, you just rip out a whole ton of earth, damage the tree's roots, and leave unstable earth around it and beneath it... All of this so that people can stare at fem-Rhino's a$$?

Also, I don't think that Wukong or Nezha (at least Nezha) could be genderswapped seeing as they are significant figures in the mythology of the region whose economy DE is trying to enter.

[Bizzaro21]

I`m all for it, hopefully rhino will look good now, and imagine limbo o.o

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, -Amaterasu- said:

-snip-.

1. Can be Fixed Easily..

2. ^

3. They Shuold

4. No, but full made models will be nice

5. Too Bad...

6. Shes Hot

7. You already answered that, with the first line of text

8. Shes cute

9. I agree with this alot, tho its not that much only £3 Max

Edited March 19, 2016 by LegionCynex

[Stoner]

So just because of a sexy fanart of female Ash, people are asking for gender swap. 

Give me a break...

There's not much to discuss here, we all know DE is going to say no to this. So why even bother?

Edited March 19, 2016 by Stoner74

[corrosivePaladin]

I like how the main argument for this person is a pinup. And the exact reason why people oppose the idea.

[arch111]

Female model : anchorpoints, shaders, default stance and unique animation.

Male model : anchorpoints, shaders, default stance and unique animation.

Process: rework a model. Texture it and submit to DE.

DE skins it to the default rig. Adjusts the abchorpoints. Apply the shaders from the original;  ie fire, smoke, ice.

Name it to be used by the warframe just like a premium skin.

Result: Works just like all the rest, clipping, animations and all.

[alexmach1]

I feel like leaving it to tennogen would cause one or two artists to monopolize the genderswap scene, and every skin afterward would either not earn as much for "not being the opposite gender" or "being the opposite gender but not working with the legendary/other skins/not being as good as the other one".

[Insizer]

11 minutes ago, corporatePaladin said:

I like how the main argument for this person is a pinup. And the exact reason why people oppose the idea.

Exactly.

But I also don't want genderswaps because I use Nexusmods for Skyrim... I'd say almost half of the mods on that site are either new body models, textures, animations, or clothing and armor for female characters. And that content is usually not what I'd call tasteful... I fully expect to see an influx of female frames if genderswaps came out, all for the most tasteless reasons...

I'd also be conflicted as to which I find more unsettling to look at: fem-Nova or male-Nova.

[shut]

I stopped reading through this thread a couple pages in. I love how every time the gender-swap topic comes up, there's always the folks who suddenly attack the OP by calling him an evil sexist who's insecure about his weak masculinity and all sorts of unnecessary crap, and then get applauded for it.

I've been part of a solid handful of game forums, most with less-than-ideal communities, and never have I seen such disgusting behaviour occur in something as innocent as a customization-request thread. Stay classy, folks.

 

OT:

I'd personally love to see gender swaps in the form of premium skins, but the problem is that there isn't enough demand from the playerbase for it to be financially feasible.

There's not much more to the issue. Not even lore issues are enough reason for it to not happen, considering that one of our existing skins is literally Hayden Tenno (a human from the Cold War era who doesn't even exist in the WF universe). It's just that most players aren't interested. Nothing more.

Edited March 19, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Jaruis]

8 hours ago, RadioLarity said:

They are amazing. And that's my argument for genderswap to be a thing.

So unless you want the devs to tirelessly work on gender switch models instead of fixing the already broken state of the game. It's bad enough that the devs try to add pointless gear, but it's worse when they start working on something with no benefits to gameplay aside from feeding the sjws

[arch111]

Just now, Jaruis said:

So unless you want the devs to tirelessly work on gender switch models instead of fixing the already broken state of the game. It's bad enough that the devs try to add pointless gear, but it's worse when they start working on something with no benefits to gameplay aside from feeding the sjws

TennoGen.  Us. The community. 

Not the dev-team.

[Thrymm]

I'd love to see it, and it's a thing I'd actually pay money for.  The lore actually meshes better this being able to select a frames gender, in my opinion.

We've got the "children of the Zarimon" thing with every frame being a copy of an original, personality based frame from the past.  Clearly, this gives different and unique looks to each frame, and to each gender.

If we're truly worried about lore, each player is one of these children, which ostensibly started with a unique frame.  That means that we should be picking our frame look and gender right from the start, and more or less be stuck with it.  Any powers we choose to channel through that suit would be the things we're researching and adding/altering into our own personal warframe suit.  Clearly, this is not the case(nor am I necessarily suggesting it).

Now fast forward to today.  The tenno are chilling out in their unaged teen bodies, on board our own personal craft, with their own personal stable of warframe suits, not just their original, to use.  These tenno most assuredly do have a frame of a particular gender that they started out using, and it's not a stretch to say that whatever original frame that particular child of the zarimon was attached was of the same gender(or opposite, whatever, I'm not judging), meaning that this particular tenno(us, the players) may have indeed preferred it that way.

Which means that the frame gender is a meaningless cosmetic not only to gameplay, but to the lore itself.  Which means that altering it would cause no gameplay imbalance, nor lore imbalance as these new frames are produced that are functionally identical to the old but cosmetically not so.

Which brings up a nice business perk.  Some players(myself included), specifically enjoy playing a specific gender whether it be for immersion or simply a desire for a pretty or badass looking avatar in their games.  For players firmly planted in these mindsets, being able to pick gender can literally create half the frames all over again in their stable---without outright developing a new frame with new abilities.  That's a tremendous opportunity, in my opinion.

 

 

[arch111]

This is a gender-skin.

Pinups or sexual designs will never make it in.

[Jaruis]

2 minutes ago, arch111 said:

TennoGen.  Us. The community. 

Not the dev-team.

Then give me some good expectations on the rule 63 models, because the workshop will become as bad as skyrim's mods. 

[Kai_Shiba]

4 minutes ago, arch111 said:

TennoGen.  Us. The community. 

Not the dev-team.

Paywalls like this turn players away, especially gender skins, which shouldn't be behind a paywall to begin with.

Edited March 19, 2016 by KJRenz
touching up

[Insizer]

4 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I stopped reading through this thread a couple pages in. I love how every time someone makes a thread about wanting this as a basic customization option, there's always the folks who suddenly attack the OP by calling him an evil sexist who's insecure about his weak masculinity, and then get applauded for it.

Stay classy, folks.

 

OT:

I'd personally love to see gender swaps in the form of premium skins, but the problem is that there isn't enough demand from the playerbase for it to be financially feasible.

There's not much more to the issue-- not even "it's lore-breaking!" is a strong reason for it to not happen, considering that one of our skins is literally Hayden Tenno (a human from the Cold War era who doesn't even exist in the WF universe). It's just that most players aren't interested. Nothing more.

I don't like the name calling and such. And I don't really get the "lore-friendly" argument. This is Warframe, its lore is fluid and being written from the hips as we speak, we already have had enough "well sh*t, I didn't think that would be done" or "that doesn't make sense" in this game's development that we should know better by now to stake our claims to lore.

[shut]

6 minutes ago, Jaruis said:

So unless you want the devs to tirelessly work on gender switch models instead of fixing the already broken state of the game.

This might come as a bit of shock to you, but programmers and art designers do not have the same job. Balancing and bugfixing is 100% unrelated to what the art team does.

[arch111]

2 minutes ago, Jaruis said:

Then give me some good expectations on the rule 63 models, because the workshop will become as bad as skyrim's mods. 

But they will STAY in the workshop. A very big difference.

[Ryouhi]

11 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I stopped reading through this thread a couple pages in. I love how every time the alt-gender comes up, there's always the folks who suddenly accuse the OP of being insecure about his masculinity and call him an evil sexist for wanting a basic customization option, and then get applauded for their attacks. Stay classy, folks.

 

OT:

I'd personally love to see gender swaps in the form of premium skins, but the problem is that there isn't enough demand from the playerbase for it to be financially feasible.

There's not much more to the issue-- not even "it's lore-breaking!" is a strong reason for it to not happen, considering that one of our skins is literally Hayden Tenno (a human from the Cold War era who doesn't even exist in the WF universe). It's just that most players aren't interested. Nothing more.

You're focusing on one ad hominem attack and ignore the rest of the arguments in that case.

And locking gender behind a paywall is a terrible terrible idea

[Arkfall]

I think it would be cool is Tennogen was a way for them to get this in the game without having to add new Frames and leveling fodder.

I also stopped caring about this years ago.

... I'm hungry....

EDIT: I hope this makes someone laugh. :D

Edited March 19, 2016 by Arkfall
For the Lolz