FunkadelicMayhem Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Iv run pugs more then clans doing LoR, and the pugs are way more successful! Yes there new people, that's why you always ask in chat (when you pug) "anyone not know what to do". Explain it instead of ignoring it and coming to the forums to QQ! If you did not help a new player YOU are the only person to blame! Edited March 25, 2016 by FunkadelicMayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Emptiness Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I won't disagree with you (the OP) on bringing out the bad peeps, but they host their own key from their own resources and can set their own requirements however they want. So obviously if you come into the raid without a general understanding of the mechanics its going to affect the whole team. [Searching up some vids will help you there]. Also, I assume that some if not most of the veterans don't mind taking in newbies AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. Now this becomes a tremendous hassle in the second stage of LoR which is highly team-centered gameplay. Personally I've seen a lot of peeps just come in with no eyes or ears and it will certainly create the kind of attitudes that you've experienced. Though, it is an innate flaw of the LoR mechanics in the end. Best of luck in future raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MopUpCrewman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 9 hours ago, PickleMonster21 said: The comparison may be how to cook noodles vs rocket science, but the point still stands. 9 hours ago, PickleMonster21 said: And if someone gets angry because I accidentally failed the mission because I didn't know the failing conditions, that's their problem. Not mine xD If they choose to get worked up, that's all on them. You failed the mission. Your fault. You're a grown adult, not a kid. You don't get excused because you didn't know any better. You're supposed to know. And since you say the point stands... You: "Woah, murder is bad? Well, gee! I didn't know that!" Officer: "That's fine, sir. You may go." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaftMeat Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Senpai-Pie said: You failed the mission. Your fault. You're a grown adult, not a kid. You don't get excused because you didn't know any better. You're supposed to know. And since you say the point stands... You: "Woah, murder is bad? Well, gee! I didn't know that!" Officer: "That's fine, sir. You may go." This is more akin to a rookie soldier making a mistake in following orders, more so than someone randomly murdering people. A correction or a reprimand may be necessary, but treating them like the scum of the Earth is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkadelicMayhem Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Senpai-Pie said: You failed the mission. Your fault. You're a grown adult, not a kid. You don't get excused because you didn't know any better. You're supposed to know. And since you say the point stands... You: "Woah, murder is bad? Well, gee! I didn't know that!" Officer: "That's fine, sir. You may go." Yes! The "its just a game why you so mad" is a BS answer. Yes its a game we are playing a game learn to play the game or walk away. The point of the game is to beat the raid, you dont get so say "its just a game" and get a pass. No sh!T its a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeVodka Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The only real issue I have with newbies to raids in the groups I usually go with, is that they have a tendency of doing what they're not told to do. In my groups we assign people to do specific jobs, and ask the rest to stand by and watch. This allows us to do it flawlessly as we're an experienced bunch. Though in the case of when we need the newbies to do something, the most annoying thing is when they're not doing as they're told. That's the real issue about playing with newbies, atleast for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Senpai-Pie said: You failed the mission. Your fault. You're a grown adult, not a kid. You don't get excused because you didn't know any better. You're supposed to know. And since you say the point stands... You: "Woah, murder is bad? Well, gee! I didn't know that!" Officer: "That's fine, sir. You may go." I failed the mission. IT'S A GAME. Not the end of the world. You will move on. I will learn. Are you trying to say that just because you're an adult, you're not allowed to fail at anything at all? So if I threw you into a battlefield IRL, and told you to just do it, you wouldn't know what I was talking about, what to do, how to do it, hell, you probably wouldn't even know how to use your equipment. How about if I let you watch YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, and then put you in the same situation? You still wouldn't know what you were doing because you don't have any experience, any training, or any on-the-go guidelines/help. And then you fail whatever your objective is. Is it right to say to me "You should know better because you watched YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, AND you're an adult so you should know better anyway"? No. That's stupid. TLDR: There's a difference between watching someone do something, and actually doing it yourself. And just because you're at an age of experience, does that mean when something completely different to everything you know, you should automatically know how to do it? No. That's not how ANYTHING works. But then you do it yourself, you practice, an THEN you get better. You don't immediately start out as a pro the first time you ever do something after watching a video or doing your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkadelicMayhem Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, PickleMonster21 said: I failed the mission. IT'S A GAME. Not the end of the world. You will move on. I will learn. Are you trying to say that just because you're an adult, you're not allowed to fail at anything at all? So if I threw you into a battlefield IRL, and told you to just do it, you wouldn't know what I was talking about, what to do, how to do it, hell, you probably wouldn't even know how to use your equipment. How about if I let you watch YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, and then put you in the same situation? You still wouldn't know what you were doing because you don't have any experience, any training, or any on-the-go guidelines/help. And then you fail whatever your objective is. Is it right to say to me "You should know better because you watched YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, AND you're an adult so you should know better anyway"? No. That's stupid. TLDR: There's a difference between watching someone do something, and actually doing it yourself. And just because you're at an age of experience, does that mean when something completely different to everything you know, you should automatically know how to do it? No. That's not how ANYTHING works. But then you do it yourself, you practice, an THEN you get better. You don't immediately start out as a pro the first time you ever do something after watching a video or doing your research. No SH!T its a game. You think we all plugged in one day and 4got! Watch some videos and run your own raids to learn. DONT join a raid asking for "experienced" players you selfish Experienced players dont mind helping new players. But as the saying goes. "you cant help ignorance" breaking thru ignorance is up to the individual. Edited March 25, 2016 by FunkadelicMayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEP8FlyBoy Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I sort of ran into an issue like this when I tried an LoR raid earlier this week, 2 of the 7 players in our squad sort of had no idea what they were doing... and one player in specific was calling them out for it, nothing terrible... but I think the word 'idiot' was passed around. In the end, the persons who were getting steamed about being stuck on the second stage with me and the rest of the squad for like 30-45 minutes... they left... and sadly we had to leave too... the door glitched and wouldn't open even with us remaining four on the buttons... Just a bad experience for me overall, I probably won't try again. Arcanes really aren't that worth the effort if this is the way some players can be. (This is only a small portion of what happened... some players didn't even pay the rest of the team any mind because they weren't of a high enough Mastery Rank... Since when is a MR rank an accurate measure of a player's skill? It's just a system that levels up with different weapons and Warframes under your belt... heck, even at Mastery Rank 21 where I am now... I could be a terrible player, but I'm not... I just don't see why players still use this as a system of judging someone before they play with them.) All in all, I think the Law of Retribution was fun on release, when players actually tried to contribute to the team and earn rewards... and now, less and less people are available to help out... and honestly, I'm questioning my time spent on it in general... when the Arcane system takes so much effort to max, with a limited benefit for most variants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MopUpCrewman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 9 hours ago, DaftMeat said: This is more akin to a rookie soldier making a mistake in following orders, more so than someone randomly murdering people. A correction or a reprimand may be necessary, but treating them like the scum of the Earth is not. I never said they should be treated badly for failing. They shouldn't. You can get frustrated with their actions but lashing out at the person is wrong. I'm all for helping players, but players should also learn to help themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FunkadelicMayhem said: No **** its a game. You think we all plugged in one day and forgot? Watch some videos and run your own raids to learn. DON'T join a raid asking for "experienced" players you selfish I... never said I was joining a Raid, let alone asking for experienced players to carry me... I won't watch videos, but I won't be joining random players. If anything, I'd be hosting my OWN LoR lobby (which I have no intention to do in the near future), letting ANYONE join, experienced or not, because I'm sure we'll be able to get it if whoever joins works together. I don't know about you guys, but I'm clearly all about helping others, whether I know what I'm doing or not. So I'm not exactly selfish at all, unless not watching a video and hosting my own LoR lobby makes me selfish. Then by all means, I'm super selfish. Edited March 25, 2016 by PickleMonster21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 alright, both parties have their flaws. here's where we stand: - new Players should at least consider doing some research before jumping into the Raid. it's not just some easy multistage mission that you can just steamroll through (though maybe some skilled Raid Teams can, but I'll get to them). all anyone can ask of new raiders is that they be willing to try their best to and listen/read what others say. if you try and fail, then that's fine; because at least you tried, and you're bound to fluke it a bunch of times (lord knows I did). don't feel bad if you screw up, just try to learn from your mistakes. - Veteran Players should know better. you were noobs once as well, remember? there was a time where even the most experienced of founders didn't have a CLUE what they were doing, so they learned. just because you have passed that learning curve though does NOT mean you have the right to go f-ing and blinding and being all Toxic against newer players. I get that Raids are meant to be a little more "serious", but they shouldn't become a virtual playground with the Experienced kids stealing the newer players lunch money, so to speak. and yes, there will be times where you'll find some really frustratingly bad noobs (if I had a dime..), but going full caps lock is not going to give them an instant boost in skill. if anything, it's going to make them feel inadequate and ultimately ruin their experience. TL:DR: Newbies should do a little research before thinking about raids, veterans need to act like Adults and be less toxic. nobody is right or wrong, nobody has a moral High-ground, and both parties may or may not deserve a slap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Emptiness Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, PickleMonster21 said: I failed the mission. IT'S A GAME. Not the end of the world. You will move on. I will learn. Are you trying to say that just because you're an adult, you're not allowed to fail at anything at all? So if I threw you into a battlefield IRL, and told you to just do it, you wouldn't know what I was talking about, what to do, how to do it, hell, you probably wouldn't even know how to use your equipment. How about if I let you watch YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, and then put you in the same situation? You still wouldn't know what you were doing because you don't have any experience, any training, or any on-the-go guidelines/help. And then you fail whatever your objective is. Is it right to say to me "You should know better because you watched YouTube Tutorials for 2 hours, AND you're an adult so you should know better anyway"? No. That's stupid. TLDR: There's a difference between watching someone do something, and actually doing it yourself. And just because you're at an age of experience, does that mean when something completely different to everything you know, you should automatically know how to do it? No. That's not how ANYTHING works. But then you do it yourself, you practice, an THEN you get better. You don't immediately start out as a pro the first time you ever do something after watching a video or doing your research. Actually the difference is hardly relevant. One is learning through experience, and the other is observational learning. People may learn one better than the other, but it is not as if one negates learning completely. Moreover, the videos are designed specifically to show new players the key mechanics of the raid. There is commentary to guide them. If it was a silent video of Jordas Verdict for instance, you wouldn't know or learn much. Even if there are things that you can only grasp through experiencing the raid yourself, at least people don't have to tell you "Don't stay near the core" or "Electricity is instant fail". Knowing that much already helps with success in the raid, which I hope is what everyone is after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEP8FlyBoy Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Just now, Senpai-Pie said: I never said they should be treated badly for failing. They shouldn't. You can get frustrated with their actions but lashing out at the person is wrong. I'm all for helping players, but players should also learn to help themselves. We were all in those shoes once, where we had no idea what the heck we were doing... and we learned. I agree with you Senpai... lashing out at people just because they don't know exactly what to do in a certain situation (because they haven't done anything like it, or researched it) is wrong. Most players ignore that fact, and just try to explain it to them on the fly... like myself. But there are the few who will always try to point out the faults/flaws of players who are seemingly unaware of the fact that they are contributing almost nothing to the squad... The players who follow this stigma should learn, you cannot get through to someone new with a negative attitude... a positive outlook and disposition toward new players nutures a better community... and frankly, it is the only true course for a Veteran player like myself. To help out, and give back. The near three years I have in this game, I have helped countless players. Or at least tried to show them the way. More people need to just chill sometimes, and remember we are all people... playing this game, together. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkadelicMayhem Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) TL;DR New players dont join raids asking for experienced players. If you do you might be able to float or be carried, but you will not learn what your need to be doing. But then again you cant help stupid. No im not calling all new players stupid, but I am saying there is a lot of "sorry man I just cant help you if you cant help ur self first". Edited March 25, 2016 by FunkadelicMayhem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basdiow Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 32 minutes ago, Senpai-Pie said: You failed the mission. Your fault. You're a grown adult, not a kid. You don't get excused because you didn't know any better. You're supposed to know. And since you say the point stands... You: "Woah, murder is bad? Well, gee! I didn't know that!" Officer: "That's fine, sir. You may go." You couldn't of chose a more horrible analogy. This is better compared to you failing at learning something at school. Most of the time the teachers would just help you, right (unless you live in a country where the teachers just smack you)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEP8FlyBoy Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Basdiow said: You couldn't of chose a more horrible analogy. This is better compared to you failing at learning something at school. Most of the time the teachers would just help you, right (unless you live in a country where the teachers just smack you)? Like Malaysia? Where the government is more corrupt than the playerbase here can be sometimes. Edited March 25, 2016 by AEP8FlyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, -CM-Emptiness said: Actually the difference is hardly relevant. One is learning through experience, and the other is observational learning. People may learn one better than the other, but it is not as if one negates learning completely. Moreover, the videos are designed specifically to show new players the key mechanics of the raid. There is commentary to guide them. If it was a silent video of Jordas Verdict for instance, you wouldn't know or learn much. Even if there are things that you can only grasp through experiencing the raid yourself, at least people don't have to tell you "Don't stay near the core" or "Electricity is instant fail". Knowing that much already helps with success in the raid, which I hope is what everyone is after. It doesn't matter how many examples I throw out, someone will ALWAYS come along and be like "That's a bad example". But let's move on from that. Some people (like me) suck at observational learning, and I also don't have the patience for it (because I KNOW it's a waste of my time). Even if someone DOES have to tell you to do this or that, if you follow their instruction as best you can, then it's not really your fault if you fail. It's not the instructor's fault, either. But you did your best and that's all you really can do, regardless of how you learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunkadelicMayhem Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Just now, Basdiow said: You couldn't of chose a more horrible analogy. This is better compared to you failing at learning something at school. Most of the time the teachers would just help you, right (unless you live in a country where the teachers just smack you)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dicht.Amducias- Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 lol this thread is getting like a 1v1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basdiow Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, FunkadelicMayhem said: Well, I completely missed the reference there. Can you explain what this is suppose to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)UltraKardas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, LordCloud00 said: 1) Trial is a mission for experienced players, you should avoid it before having a full experience with the game. 2) Veterans have no duty to guide in you in the mission, since collecting infos should be a basic requirement before trying it, if they do it's a COURTESY. 3) Your precise will to ignore the "phase of collecting infos" and rush in the mission without any idea of what to do is lazy and make the game harder and longer for everyone else. 4) In addition of being lazy cause you cannot spend 3 mins to see 1 of the 1000 guides available or videos, you PRETEND that other players should not only tell you what to do, but even explain you why! So you want veterans to understand your needs, and justify your laziness, and you pretend they do it at the expense of their interests. If you want to learn the basis of LoR you must DECLARE your intent at your party members, cause Veterans are not there to instruct you, but because they want to complete the mission as soon as possible. If you find players who can teach you, it's good, if not, you cannot force your needs on them. This isn't quite fair as watching the raid or reading the guide won't give the same knowledge as actually experiencing the raids mechanics. I read several guides before my first raid (it was still rough) and even watched a video for the jordas raid and the nerve area in the jordas verdict is still confusing. You really just need watching out for each other and understanding the mechanics/what needs to be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Emptiness Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, PickleMonster21 said: It doesn't matter how many examples I throw out, someone will ALWAYS come along and be like "That's a bad example". But let's move on from that. Some people (like me) suck at observational learning, and I also don't have the patience for it (because I KNOW it's a waste of my time). Even if someone DOES have to tell you to do this or that, if you follow their instruction as best you can, then it's not really your fault if you fail. It's not the instructor's fault, either. But you did your best and that's all you really can do, regardless of how you learn. Well you never know if you don't try. If you follow and fail then no one is to blame. But that's only looking at one perspective. Other groups have new players who don't follow instructions, and that results in a failure. Take those arrogant attitudes and ask yourself, what if they had learnt from a video beforehand? Well, theoretically speaking, if they had done so, following others instructions or following their own would have yielded the same outcome nonetheless, and we would not have had to go through all that time of educating them to no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dextral Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 you wonder why people get mad when you don't know what your doing, raids are 'end game' name one game were people dont get pissie were people doing end game have no clue what to do. its not hard to google, read the wiki watch a youtube video and ask a friend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Vauban Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, CorerMaximus said: -snip- Most of the time, those players who prefer to yell at other players during raids, are those players who only do them literally for only the reward (duh .w.) What I mean is, if they are used to doing a raid in like...I dunno, 15 minutes and then they suddenly notice that a few of them have absolutely no clue what to do, they get rather pissed, simply because they can't just speed through it. The fact that they KNOW you can do it extremely fast just makes it even worse for them. In their eyes: Unexperienced player = A waste of time = less time to farm whatever and possibly less plat to earn through trading. These players are also one reason why I still haven't done the second raid yet, because I simply don't feel like having to listen to their bullS#&$. <w< Edited March 25, 2016 by DJ_Vauban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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