Challenge is Gone, and With It, the Fun

[HarrodTasker]

12 minutes ago, Heliopata said:

So any idea of how to balance the game? What people mean when they say fix the scaling?

When the game starts out, your Mark-1 Braton is barely good enough to kill level 5 enemies.  When you get into endgame gear and things that are fully modded, the amount of damage you do is ludicrous compared to  where you start out.  And so is enemy HP and armor.  Its understood that higher level enemies are harder to kill, but the degree to which this is true is problematic.

I like the Vakor Hek.  It is in my opinion the best thing ever, but the truth of that statement is immaterial.  It does 10,814.9 damage per shot, and that's excluding critical hits.  This is about 60 times the damage of Mark-1 Strun.  I one shot most things with my Vakor Hek. Consider how tedious it would be to have to 60-shot enemies with a Mark-1 Strun.  Maybe high end gear doing 60X the damage of starter gear is excessive, that endgame stuff could be toned down to for example 10X starter stuff.  And that endgame enemies would naturally not have 60X the health but say 10X.

Part of the problem is that there is a mod for every weapon that if you don't use you are playing the game wrong.  Its Serration for a rifle, Point Blank Shot for shotgun, and so forth.  If you aren't using the maximum available +X% damage mods, and all applicable multi shot mods, you can not play the endgame.  Most people would like to think that mods represent the specific choices you make to your weapon that demonstrates your particular play style, and the existence of mandatory mods which can not be done without undermines this.  It is believed that simple +Damage and multishot mods will be removed with damage 3.0 and scaling will be adjusted to be less ridiculous at the higher ends both in terms of how much damage you deal and how much it takes to kill things.

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

23 hours ago, Burnthesteak87 said:

Here's my +1.

Warframe is a good game and DE are an awesome developer group.
But.
A good game has precise rules and aim defining it.
Actual horizons are too much blurry and undefined..
The concept of "Ninjas Play Free" is time by time diluting and submerging the game.

Too much freedom is toxic.

 I, totally agree , when i start play warframe , i was attracted by this slogan " Ninjas play free"  , not clowns, not mariners , not magician or pole dancers, this things can be fun , but are not ninjas, same for non sense weapons , this game have a great original idea but they re dont follow , i dont know exactly why, but today warframe s a ordinary shooter as loudout or any other game . This game have a amazing concept but lost all focus  

[Currilicious]

Like all games with stat progression, I don't see how it comes as a surprise when you one-shot everything in some leveling area with your endgame gear.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

A game like WF doesn't stay challenging forever, as with most games you do eventually get to the inevitable point where there is no challenge anymore and you can go through the hardest missions without breaking a sweat.  adding harder content is just moving that goal post further down the progression path, but you will eventually get back to that point again.

[silversilver]

Maybe you're not trying hard enough?

Not to be rude but i just ran a few missions as maxed range hydroid, turned my energy yellow and laughed as the enemies got caught in a puddle of piss. My team might not have liked it when one moment there are 2-3 level 80 mobs and the next moment the whole room is full of angry, piss soaked enemies tho. Sometimes the game isnt about "gotta be the best and grind this and that" and more "i wonder what would happen if...". I've been entertaining myself running low level alerts as maim Equinox. Just running around murdering everything. Get creative, friend

 

 

Edited April 17, 2016 by silversilver

[TheTundraTerror]

The heart of the issue is that enemy scaling is jacked to hell and back. Damage in this game is practically binary.

Edited April 18, 2016 by TheTundraTerror

[Darthmufin]

So everyone is talking about draco and sorties and here i am using weapon i find enjoyable on lower level survivals and still have fun. Perhaps a solution is stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 

[DrBorris]

2 hours ago, Darthmufin said:

So everyone is talking about draco and sorties and here i am using weapon i find enjoyable on lower level survivals and still have fun. Perhaps a solution is stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. 

So we can't have fun and grind at the same time? Warframe is a grind simulator, and there is nothing wrong with that in itself. There is a problem when grinding becomes repetitive and boring. Grinding is generally repetitive and boring in Warframe. Sure, those survivals are fun, but you are hindering yourself in not just effectiveness, but also reward output. It is FASTER to not have fun, this is where the issue is. It is ironic that you say to not do the same thing over and over when that is exactly what Warframe currently encourages/rewards.

 

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 11:01 PM, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

A game like WF doesn't stay challenging forever, as with most games you do eventually get to the inevitable point where there is no challenge anymore and you can go through the hardest missions without breaking a sweat.  adding harder content is just moving that goal post further down the progression path, but you will eventually get back to that point again.

A game like Warframe? What are you referring to. When I think of Warframe I don't think of the jacked up progression and cringe worthy balance. Warframe has built up its reputation on its hella fun gameplay. Right now DE thinks "harder" means moar damage. This is not how to make things harder, it is how you raise the progression cap. It does not take more skill to kill a higher level enemy, it just takes better guns/Warframes/mods. It is this number escalator progression that DE needs to get away from to make the game "harder" because if they don't, as you mention, the hard stuff will eventually be easy. My pipe dream is that Warframe is MORE difficult as a MR 21 player doing end game stuff than it is for a noob going through Venus for the first time. Unfortunately it is the other way around right now. I hope that the fact that Damage 3.0 is taking so long is a sign that it is a massive rework and not that it just fell down the list of priorities.

Edited April 18, 2016 by DrBorris

[Xzorn]

The situation with the whole "Then don't do it." or "Use what you like". Is that the game does not reward you nearly as well for doing so.

 

if you're trying to earn your way through the game you'll quickly find that if you don't play "the meta way" you will simply be spending x10 longer to accomplish the same goals. This game has also been tuned against this type of play; not the ordinary simple play some might suggest. The game can be outright annoying playing outside the meta.

In the end though, this game has always had methods of trivializing it's content. Some might remember Perma Immortal Rhino + Furax?

This has resulted in an unending circle of players finding cheesey tricks and devs creating "challenge" through similar tricks.

 

IMO it's less about the game being challenging and more about how it's punishing you for trying to play the way you want to play.

I have some hope for Damage 3.0 as Damage 2.0 basically removed what challenge the game had for me. The massive weapon damage we now have dictates we go into higher level content yet our defense stays the same against ridiculous enemy damage, effectively forcing us into cheese tactics or playing under a ceiling with completely OP weapons.

[OMHOMHOM]

*SIGH*

"*sigh* as i said in another thread kinda similar to this one:i'm really stupid and lazy (and i'm not the only one like this) and i like to apply no effort and feel like a god in video games,therefore i vote against everything you said."
 

"yes.press 4 to win.such things make me feel good,i think others should just let people be what they want to be,i have enough pressure in real life to deal with pressure in virtual life."

and

the more OP i am,the more fun i am having.do you see the picture here?everyone is different,but the great part is,is that you can have your "hell" difficulty if you want it,you can do whatever you want in warframe and that's one of the reasons i love it so much.there's too many of you people complaining about the game being too easy,just go back to dota or something already.

[VRHmason]

And that is why I started playing conclave, because thats the only challenge in game at this moment...
I'll take a laggy deathmatch over one-shooting hordes of enemies any time...at least it gives me challenge.

Yea sure survivals/def and inter can be fun sometimes but not challenging at all. 


Maybe put bosses on end of each C rotation.

Edited April 18, 2016 by VRHmason