Trinity Energy Vampire hard nerf or complete rework

[Lumeh]

i know this thread will gain a lot of hate, but i will do this regardless. trinity's energy vampire ability is insanely unhealthy for the whole game. it promotes camping a single spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again. the whole purpose and style of this game should NOT involve camping 1 spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again in survival, interception, excavation and defense missions (after all it is a SHOOTER, too). after playing for around a 2 months and reaching rank 15, i realized the game is (because of that) very dull and boring. i don't feel any kind of reward for doing these missions, since i started taking them for granted and that is NOT good for any game.

by nerfing trinity's EV ability, you would dramatically reduce above mentioned play style and have players more interacting with these mobs and other players in order to achieve a certain goal. getting 100 waves in defense normal way is seriously hard, but with trinity it's almost the easiest thing ever.. i made a macro that spams radial javelin on my excalibur and went AFK (literally AFK) and came back after a while and we still lived (wave 45+) with my damage being the highest. i used to do that more and more, because the system allows it, eventually quitting the game and that's a shame, because your game has such a great potential, but it's highly unbalanced (melee weapons and tonkor are heavily overpowered compared to the rest, making them a nobrainer for every harder mission, trinity breaks the whole game on her own, etc). if i was asked, i would give trinity some other ability instead of energy vampire, maybe some damage one. i have made dozens of suggestions and posted ideas for other games (mainly blizzard ones, since their team is mostly incompetent), which got accepted by a lot of people from the community, but rejected and ignored by them, eventually leaving the fans (CONSUMERS/CUSTOMERS) dissatisfied and quitting.

a friendly advice: don't make the same mistake other companies did and that is ignoring the community. blizzard did (and is still doing) the same thing and their sub numbers are declining on every game they have, especially wow (if you youtube the latest drama about legacy servers, you can see countless rants about them by popular people). players have been BEGGING them to balance their games (since that's what every sane person would want) or to not do something they did and they simply rejected every single suggestion.other companies take that for granted as well. don't be that company. don't throw away the potential of this game for nothing. improve it and the results will show.

i'll repeat one more time: by nerfing this ability, your game should enter a much healthier and challenging state and if you take it a step further and balance melee and tonkor, the dull game moments can only decrease. for proof, you can just youtube any tower defense and convince yourselves how dull and stupid it is.

added video proving this i randomly found on youtube (it is not my own): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZA3JHs-yXw

[here's what i typed and you can see how many results i got. open any of those videos and you'll find the group camping one spot while trinity is spamming EV]: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=100+waves+warframe

as you can see, it is a 100 wave run. it would be possible even more like this, since all they're ever doing is spamming one ability over and over again. using guns only to remove nullifier shields, for everything else it's just brainless spamming. and you can surely see how easy this is and it shouldn't be. without trinity, this whole thing would look way different.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lumeh
added video link

[ashrah]

i totslly agree with u.....medic should restore hp but to full restore energy every 1 sec id totally broken...i am sure DE are notice that too and they will rework her.....

[PikeOrShield]

I think a side grade/nerf to make the gains more gradual would be best.

I would like it to be changed to an Energy Siphon on steroids type ability.  You cast it (does not need an enemy) for a base cost of 50 energy and everyone starts regaining ~4 energy per second regardless of range.  Casting it again would refresh the duration, but yield no extra benefits.  For the Vampire Leech mod, change it to "~1000% of extra energy is converted to shields" so it would grant 40 shields per second at max energy.  I'm not saying these exact numbers are what it should be, but something like this would prevent ability abuse and bring EV in line with her other abilities to benefit with duration.

[Insizer]

12 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

I think a side grade/nerf to make the gains more gradual would be best.

I would like it to be changed to an Energy Siphon on steroids type ability.  You cast it (does not need an enemy) for a base cost of 50 energy and everyone starts regaining ~4 energy per second regardless of range.  Casting it again would refresh the duration, but yield no extra benefits.  For the Vampire Leech mod, change it to "~1000% of extra energy is converted to shields" so it would grant 40 shields per second at max energy.  I'm not saying these exact numbers are what it should be, but something like this would prevent ability abuse and bring EV in line with her other abilities to benefit with duration.

Everyone but Trinity

[RexRgisIocus]

13 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

I think a side grade/nerf to make the gains more gradual would be best.

I would like it to be changed to an Energy Siphon on steroids type ability.  You cast it (does not need an enemy) for a base cost of 50 energy and everyone starts regaining ~4 energy per second regardless of range.  Casting it again would refresh the duration, but yield no extra benefits.  For the Vampire Leech mod, change it to "~1000% of extra energy is converted to shields" so it would grant 40 shields per second at max energy.  I'm not saying these exact numbers are what it should be, but something like this would prevent ability abuse and bring EV in line with her other abilities to benefit with duration.

Zenurik has already shown that 4 energy/sec is still too much. While never being able to cast abilities for lack of energy isn't good being able of spamming forever is just as bad.

IMO Trinity needs to be completely redone. Her only actually balanced ability is Link since it needs targets to even work and doesn't have a ridiculous base duration.

WoL is just bad, Bless is so broken that no healer (new or otherwise) will ever be on her level (unless its just as broken) and EV should've stayed like it was before it got buffed. At least then you couldn't mindlessly slaughter if you wanted energy.

[Lyravain]

Well, since everyone here agrees, I'll do the different thing and disagree.

For a very simple reason. You try to balance everything to our frames, have you looked at what kind of stuff we have to deal with?

And who said you have to sit still and get the energy and health refills? Have you tried going on some serious (read; Sortie at minimum) Survivals? Go on, stay still there, see how long it lasts. Oh, wait, you're staying still inside Frost's bubble. Good job, no go complain about Frost as well.

Instead of focusing on your minor gripe of 'Trin makes us all stick relatively close together' (which, by the way, is what you SHOULD be doing, because this is a co-op game, not a hallway-heroes game), how about you focus on the kind of enemies we face that force us to stick together anyway (Nullifiers, the Shock Eximus before it was turned back to shock procs, the aim-botting Ancients and Bombards, the Sapping Ospreys that can somehow shoot inside Frost's 'impenetrable' barrier) and leave what's working fine as is?

TL;DR: Trin's fine. Leave her alone.

[Lumeh]

33 minutes ago, Lyravain said:

Well, since everyone here agrees, I'll do the different thing and disagree.

For a very simple reason. You try to balance everything to our frames, have you looked at what kind of stuff we have to deal with?

And who said you have to sit still and get the energy and health refills? Have you tried going on some serious (read; Sortie at minimum) Survivals? Go on, stay still there, see how long it lasts. Oh, wait, you're staying still inside Frost's bubble. Good job, no go complain about Frost as well.

Instead of focusing on your minor gripe of 'Trin makes us all stick relatively close together' (which, by the way, is what you SHOULD be doing, because this is a co-op game, not a hallway-heroes game), how about you focus on the kind of enemies we face that force us to stick together anyway (Nullifiers, the Shock Eximus before it was turned back to shock procs, the aim-botting Ancients and Bombards, the Sapping Ospreys that can somehow shoot inside Frost's 'impenetrable' barrier) and leave what's working fine as is?

TL;DR: Trin's fine. Leave her alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZA3JHs-yXw

so this play style is fine??? really? 100 waves and all they're doing is standing on a single spot and spamming one ability over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... great gameplay, very fun and interactive (co-op). that's how trinity is fine. without her, none of that spamming would be possible. players would actually have to PLAY the game. they would have to MOVE from one spot and SHOOT at the enemies, but all they use guns for are nullifiers and that's it, the rest is ability spam. HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS PLAYING A GAME???

and just so you can't say it's a single video, here's a search link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=100+waves+warframe

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lumeh

[Second_Measure]

Energy Vampire should have a hard, fixed duration regarding the pulses. Normal 100% duration gives you 4 pulses, 25% duration more adds one more pulse to it, and 25% less duration removes one.

I am also for Blessing being a much weaker heal in overall and emphasize more on the damage reduction, but that's just me.

[T0X1Cfish]

5 hours ago, Lumeh said:

i know this thread will gain a lot of hate, but i will do this regardless. trinity's energy vampire ability is insanely unhealthy for the whole game. it promotes camping a single spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again. the whole purpose and style of this game should NOT involve camping 1 spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again in survival, interception, excavation and defense missions (after all it is a SHOOTER, too). after playing for around a 2 months and reaching rank 15, i realized the game is (because of that) very dull and boring. i don't feel any kind of reward for doing these missions, since i started taking them for granted and that is NOT good for any game.

by nerfing trinity's EV ability, you would dramatically reduce above mentioned play style and have players more interacting with these mobs and other players in order to achieve a certain goal. getting 100 waves in defense normal way is seriously hard, but with trinity it's almost the easiest thing ever.. i made a macro that spams radial javelin on my excalibur and went AFK (literally AFK) and came back after a while and we still lived (wave 45+) with my damage being the highest. i used to do that more and more, because the system allows it, eventually quitting the game and that's a shame, because your game has such a great potential, but it's highly unbalanced (melee weapons and tonkor are heavily overpowered compared to the rest, making them a nobrainer for every harder mission, trinity breaks the whole game on her own, etc). if i was asked, i would give trinity some other ability instead of energy vampire, maybe some damage one. i have made dozens of suggestions and posted ideas for other games (mainly blizzard ones, since their team is mostly incompetent), which got accepted by a lot of people from the community, but rejected and ignored by them, eventually leaving the fans (CONSUMERS/CUSTOMERS) dissatisfied and quitting.

a friendly advice: don't make the same mistake other companies did and that is ignoring the community. blizzard did (and is still doing) the same thing and their sub numbers are declining on every game they have, especially wow (if you youtube the latest drama about legacy servers, you can see countless rants about them by popular people). players have been BEGGING them to balance their games (since that's what every sane person would want) or to not do something they did and they simply rejected every single suggestion.other companies take that for granted as well. don't be that company. don't throw away the potential of this game for nothing. improve it and the results will show.

i'll repeat one more time: by nerfing this ability, your game should enter a much healthier and challenging state and if you take it a step further and balance melee and tonkor, the dull game moments can only decrease. for proof, you can just youtube any tower defense and convince yourselves how dull and stupid it is.

added video proving this i randomly found on youtube (it is not my own): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZA3JHs-yXw

[here's what i typed and you can see how many results i got. open any of those videos and you'll find the group camping one spot while trinity is spamming EV]: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=100+waves+warframe

as you can see, it is a 100 wave run. it would be possible even more like this, since all they're ever doing is spamming one ability over and over again. using guns only to remove nullifier shields, for everything else it's just brainless spamming. and you can surely see how easy this is and it shouldn't be. without trinity, this whole thing would look way different.

I would say, if you want to play a certain way, find team mates who also want to play that way. You don't have to bring trin with you.

To me, the most healthy thing DE can do is allow as many play styles as possible, which is what they are currently doing. You can spend 100 waves spamming skills, or shooting. It is actually up to YOU not DE to make that choice. Just because a play style exists doesn't mean you HAVE to participate in it.

You just haven't bothered to try to break the mold and find other players who identify with your thoughts and feelings.

 

Edit:

Making a macro and afking is actually a bannable offense, as it automates everything and removes the human element. If you don't find spamming skills fun, play a different frame.

Edited April 24, 2016 by T0X1Cfish

[Sakatchi]

1 hour ago, Lumeh said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZA3JHs-yXw

so this play style is fine??? really? 100 waves and all they're doing is standing on a single spot and spamming one ability over and over and over and over and over and over and over again... great gameplay, very fun and interactive (co-op). that's how trinity is fine. without her, none of that spamming would be possible. players would actually have to PLAY the game. they would have to MOVE from one spot and SHOOT at the enemies, but all they use guns for are nullifiers and that's it, the rest is ability spam. HOW CAN YOU CALL THIS PLAYING A GAME???

and just so you can't say it's a single video, here's a search link: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=100+waves+warframe

Okay so there's a lot more going on than what you're complaining about here. First its wave 95 in the vid you posted right? At that point things will one shot you basically. So you want to stay grouped up. If you have a frost you'll use him. Yet you're not complaining about frost, you're complaining about trinity for some reason.

Second to get anything done relyably damage wise, the entire group is probably running corrosive projection to remove armor, so that's somehow trinity's fault too.

Third and final is equinox spamming maim. That person is indeed a spammer, and as seen in their menu they have all the energy they'll ever need. Complaining about trinity in this case is stupid, cause that guys gonna spam regardless.

It is kinda boring to stay grouped up like that, but the way the game is designed, its basically forcing them to if they want to keep playing. Since the scaling at that point is skewed so heavily in a unfavorable direction, and since so few of our frames can actually stand up to 90+ dudes cause we always nerf them to be inline with the star chart, cause people have decided that 30is balanced and anything over that is unbalanced, you get to stay in a frost globe.

Tldr, trinity is a support frame, deal with it.

[Naftal]

They could change EV mechanic to Well of Life mechanic where you only get energy if YOU damage the EV'd enemy. Should also be limited to weapon damage only.

[TsarKoschei]

2 hours ago, Lyravain said:

Well, since everyone here agrees, I'll do the different thing and disagree.

For a very simple reason. You try to balance everything to our frames, have you looked at what kind of stuff we have to deal with?

And who said you have to sit still and get the energy and health refills? Have you tried going on some serious (read; Sortie at minimum) Survivals? Go on, stay still there, see how long it lasts. Oh, wait, you're staying still inside Frost's bubble. Good job, no go complain about Frost as well.

Instead of focusing on your minor gripe of 'Trin makes us all stick relatively close together' (which, by the way, is what you SHOULD be doing, because this is a co-op game, not a hallway-heroes game), how about you focus on the kind of enemies we face that force us to stick together anyway (Nullifiers, the Shock Eximus before it was turned back to shock procs, the aim-botting Ancients and Bombards, the Sapping Ospreys that can somehow shoot inside Frost's 'impenetrable' barrier) and leave what's working fine as is?

TL;DR: Trin's fine. Leave her alone.

That could also works both ways: enemies like that were made exactly because there would be no challenge otherwise against our overpowered abilities.
I'm fine with nerfing our cheesing tactics as long as they fix enemy scaling with it, what we consider end game now boils down to cheesing your enemies or getting one shot. 

So yeah, nerf EV but get rid of the reason we need to spam our abilities in the first place.

[-Temp0-]

4 hours ago, RexRgisIocus said:

Zenurik has already shown that 4 energy/sec is still too much.

Too much for what exactly? It's barely enough for frames like Mesa, Chroma or Equinox for example just to keep them alive alone or in a team with no Trinity (and for Equinox it's not enough anyway in a team). It finally freed people from needing to drag EV with them every step of the way or consume a tons of energy pads. 

Quote

So yeah, nerf EV but get rid of the reason we need to spam our abilities in the first place.

This. Otherwise it would be jus like back in the noob days, playing excal, activating your EB and running out of energy in like 2 seconds was NOT fun. It wasn't a good gameplay either when you couldn't cast abilities because you had no flow, no streamline, no fleeting (and no energy pads). Playing without zenurik or ev often feels exactly like that.

[Blood_Poppy]

i hope you not the same person who complain about Mesa before Nerf then Complain back after the Nerf...

 

leave her Alone.. 

[kleerr2]

6 hours ago, Lumeh said:

trinity's energy vampire ability is insanely unhealthy for the whole game. it promotes camping a single spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again. the whole purpose and style of this game should NOT involve camping 1 spot and spamming 1 ability over and over again

Yea, well... too bad most of this game's content is made to revolve around camping a spot. Its not Trinity's fault that the mission types are designed in a way that supports/ promotes camping an area for large amounts of time. You have: Defense, Survival, Interception and Escavation where the main goal of the mission is to defend a certain position or objective... Granted you can run those missions without camping in the lower lvls, but as the enemy's lvls start to skyrocket, straying from the pack will become very harsh/ punishing.

With that in mind, i have no idea how you can possibly blame Trinity... You could say she supports the problem, but saying her ability is the main reason for camping in the game... Cmon, get a clue...

As for ability spamming... 95%(atleast) of the frame abilities in the game are spammable... reality-check.

6 hours ago, Lumeh said:

i made a macro that spams radial javelin on my excalibur and went AFK (literally AFK) and came back after a while and we still lived (wave 45+) with my damage being the highest.

Despite the fact that the anti-afk system in the game is flawed, it still would deprive you of loot for all those waves you were not moving at all...

[Second_Measure]

44 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Too much for what exactly? It's barely enough for frames like Mesa, Chroma or Equinox for example just to keep them alive alone or in a team with no Trinity (and for Equinox it's not enough anyway in a team). It finally freed people from needing to drag EV with them every step of the way or consume a tons of energy pads. 

Energy Overflow reduced the need to go for effiency (and duration, in case of toggle abilities), which feels like it just trivializes builds and be less thoughtful about balancing the Power stats. As a result, people throw in Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude and Power Drift into their builds because energy management became pretty obsolete due to the current Focus system.

Which is sad.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Second_Measure

[Lyravain]

42 minutes ago, TsarKoschei said:

That could also works both ways: enemies like that were made exactly because there would be no challenge otherwise against our overpowered abilities.
I'm fine with nerfing our cheesing tactics as long as they fix enemy scaling with it, what we consider end game now boils down to cheesing your enemies or getting one shot. 

So yeah, nerf EV but get rid of the reason we need to spam our abilities in the first place.

Considering that the only reason I ever even touch my cheesiest warframes (I'm looking at you, Loki), is mostly so I can run around the stage without having to obliterate entire armies in the process-not because I feel threatened that an alarm has been raised. So I definitely agree with you when it comes to cheesing. Unfortunately, that's the main issue with games as open-ended as this. Example given (in other format), Dungeons: The Dragoning or Mage (from White Wolf). Either of these games represents that there are just some combos of skills/circumstance/equipment that are just blatantly game-turning (not necessarily breaking). On the other hand, considering that the Storyteller in them can also adapt dynamically and has more ways to fight back than 'pew pew you die', that can be fixed -or at least have the effect minimized.

While there will always be people that cheese (and sometimes, it's just plain FUN to cheese the crap out of something), most people I know would rather play Banshee than Loki or Hydroid than Trinity. Why? Because they like the idea and the 'concept' of the frame more. Unfortunately, neither Banshee nor Hydroid (or several other frames) have the cheesing potential needed for high-level missions... so they get relegated to 'T1-T2 Survival' tier. Which is just plain sad.

Currently, there's tons more important problems and issues than Trinity's abilities. Especially EV. I mean, to spec for EV the way the OP suggests, you pretty much nullify all your other abilities (the heal? No time to deal damage, Link? goes away in 2 seconds, ult? the defence buff lasts for maybe 2 seconds). Overspecialization like this creates issues far more than anything DE can do to fix this.

[Magnar21]

2 hours ago, Naftal said:

They could change EV mechanic to Well of Life mechanic where you only get energy if YOU damage the EV'd enemy. Should also be limited to weapon damage only.

This already existed, and EV was a trash-tier skill for new players. You had to energy from EV on every second cast, or you had negative energy game. Sure, you kept moving and using a lot of skills, but it was frustrating for you. I can't tell you how many times I've had some nuker frame in the squad, and prevented me from getting energy from a single cast, just because they kept nuking the group before I could cast. Snowball effect anyone? I've also had a mag armed with the Snipetron Vandal only killing the enemies I EV'd. Troll, yes, but the point is simple: there will always be a loot cave.

 

As to the other posters in this thread: Trinity is a balanced frame, under certain circumstances. Think about the consequences of the proposed solutions before you endorse anything. Trinity is built around her current kit. Running a bless trin trivializes survivability (and actually makes certain frames like Vex Armor Chroma worse). Running EV trin completely negates Link and Blessing, but ensures that the party has more energy than they need.

Changing the dynamic of Trinity's powers, particularly when she is almost required for LoR unless you want to spam energy pads), will cause Trinity to be next to worthless at the thing she excels at. Sure, other frames become "viable", but they were already viable, just not optimal.

If you want a Trinity rework, then what you really need is a rework of the entire game. Warframe has no engame. Warframe becomes Warfarm at endgame, because the only thing keeping people on the hamsterwheel is the promise of new weapons being released every 2 weeks, and constantly battling the RNG simulator.

Why is Trinity so powerful? Think about it: in a game with endless scaling of enemy HP and damage, you need things that (wait for it)....

Scale endlessly. And guess what? Trinity is one frame that scales endlessly, thanks to Blessing (if you choose to mod for it) and EV. If you truly don't want Blessing and EV to exist in their current forms (which arguably would be a good change, under certain circumstances), then you need DE to fix scaling first.

[Rhaenxys]

EV is a problem but not a big one like some people think, if it wasnt for EV people would just spam energy items all the time, EV pretty much only save resources.

Trinity also needs a constant flux of energy in high level missions to do her job properly, blessing usage gets intense if you dont spec for duration or max efficiency.

Some limitations are enough, like a cap on the amount of energy restored or like naftal suggested, make it work like well of life so it gives energy when you shot the target.

[Lumeh]

3 hours ago, T0X1Cfish said:

I would say, if you want to play a certain way, find team mates who also want to play that way. You don't have to bring trin with you.

To me, the most healthy thing DE can do is allow as many play styles as possible, which is what they are currently doing. You can spend 100 waves spamming skills, or shooting. It is actually up to YOU not DE to make that choice. Just because a play style exists doesn't mean you HAVE to participate in it.

You just haven't bothered to try to break the mold and find other players who identify with your thoughts and feelings.

 

Edit:

Making a macro and afking is actually a bannable offense, as it automates everything and removes the human element. If you don't find spamming skills fun, play a different frame.

i really don't mind getting banned if the game is going to remain in this state, since i don't enjoy playing it anyway, but then they have to ban every single excalibur ""player"" and damage dealer that sits in frost's globe or pipe in survivals and spams one ability. it is no different from a macro, trust me. and it was no botting, because i just made a loop that spams 3, since that's what i would've done anyway, cause i have trinity in my group. had she disconnected, i would actually have to play the game (which, i know, sucks for most people, cause why would you play, when you can sit and spam?)

 

2 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

Yea, well... too bad most of this game's content is made to revolve around camping a spot. Its not Trinity's fault that the mission types are designed in a way that supports/ promotes camping an area for large amounts of time. You have: Defense, Survival, Interception and Escavation where the main goal of the mission is to defend a certain position or objective... Granted you can run those missions without camping in the lower lvls, but as the enemy's lvls start to skyrocket, straying from the pack will become very harsh/ punishing.

With that in mind, i have no idea how you can possibly blame Trinity... You could say she supports the problem, but saying her ability is the main reason for camping in the game... Cmon, get a clue...

As for ability spamming... 95%(atleast) of the frame abilities in the game are spammable... reality-check.

Despite the fact that the anti-afk system in the game is flawed, it still would deprive you of loot for all those waves you were not moving at all...

as explained above, it wasn't a botting device, but a simple test macro made to loop keypress on 3 inifnitely and after 20x of 3, pressing 1x W was enough to cancel the system. and no, i was in the game, watching all that happen (well mostly lol, but who cares anyway, we cleared 80 waves and got over 350 plat worth of prints and components, which wouldn't be possible otherwise, so i had no need to buy plat from the shop so i felt very thankful to trinity at that time) and concluding that i would do the same thing anyway, even without that macro. i quit the game right after that, but it's a shame, since it has such a huge potential that is wasted.

edit: about ability spam and reality check. yes, no ability in this game has a consistent cooldown, but try spamming these ability on higher waves without trinity and see how it goes for yourself. play RJ excal for example and try spamming his 3 without trinity and tell me how did it go afterwards.

1 hour ago, Rhaenxys said:

EV is a problem but not a big one like some people think, if it wasnt for EV people would just spam energy items all the time, EV pretty much only save resources.

Trinity also needs a constant flux of energy in high level missions to do her job properly, blessing usage gets intense if you dont spec for duration or max efficiency.

Some limitations are enough, like a cap on the amount of energy restored or like naftal suggested, make it work like well of life so it gives energy when you shot the target.

try doing that. play excalibur, for example, on higher waves and use those energy pads. i'm really curious if you'll get past by using those. besides, you said it yourself, without EV, we would actually have to use items, which are nearly useless atm, which means we would use more goods the game provides in order to get through a certain level and to a certain goal and that is a good thing, because if they designed all of that, just so we can ignore that, is that really good? i don't recall ever using a single item in missions with trinity in my group, that's for sure, so that's one more reason to get rid of EV

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lumeh

[Rhaenxys]

7 minutes ago, Lumeh said:

the they have to ban every single excalibur ""player"" and damage dealer that sits in frost's globe or pipe in survivals and spams one ability. it is no different from a macro, trust me. and it was no botting, because i just made a loop that spams 3, since that's what i would've done anyway, cause i have trinity in my group. had she disconnected, i would actually have to play the game (which, i know, sucks for most people, cause why would you play, when you can sit and spam?)... but i really don't mind getting banned if the game remains in this state, since i don't enjoy playing it anyway, because of above mentioned things.

 

as explained above, it wasn't a botting device, but a simple test macro made to loop keypress on 3 inifnitely and after 20x of 3, pressing 1x W was enough to cancel the system. and no, i was in the game, watching all that happen (well mostly lol, but who cares anyway, we cleared 80 waves and got over 350 plat worth of prints and components, which wouldn't be possible otherwise, so i had no need to buy plat from the shop so i felt very thankful to trinity at that time) and concluding that i would do the same thing anyway, even without that macro. i quit the game right after that, but it's a shame, since it has such a huge potential that is wasted.

try doing that. play excalibur, for example, on higher waves and use those energy pads. i'm really curious if you'll get past by using those. besides, you said it yourself, without EV, we would actually have to use items, which are nearly useless atm, which means we would use more goods the game provides in order to get through a certain level and to a certain goal and that is a good thing, because if they designed all of that, just so we can ignore that, is that really good? i don't recall ever using a single item in missions with trinity in my group, that's for sure, so that's one more reason to get rid of EV

Those items are there when you dont have a trinity and most of the time when im playing in public im usually the only trinity in the team, recruiting is not a valid argument, you can bring specific frames according to your needs.

Also, even with a trinity in your team she can get a hit from magnetic procs, eximus units, ancients disruptors etc, those items are very far for being useless, with a trinity or not.

I dont have any problem using energy pads with excalibur, go to a safe spot, blind enemies or use naramon invisibility there are a lot of choices, if you dont have a trinity you would probably have a CC frame in your team or another kind of support, work with what you have, there are multiple options.

 

[PsiWarp]

The massive amount of burst energy restore while feels great is quite excessive. Instead, I could settle for EV allowing abilities to refund partial percentage of energy cost and chance to spawn energy orb(s).

[Rhaenxys]

4 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

The massive amount of burst energy restore while feels great is quite excessive. Instead, I could settle for EV allowing abilities to refund partial percentage of energy cost and chance to spawn energy orb(s).

That wouldnt be enough, with the upcoming mag rework, mag has a chance to spawn energy orbs too, it would make EV a subpar efficiency mod.

In my book it only needs a cap, probably around 200 energy, when you have energy restore items, zenurik energy regeneration and arcane energize, EV is the least of my problems, after all is an ability.

[-Temp0-]

3 hours ago, Second_Measure said:

Energy Overflow reduced the need to go for effiency (and duration, in case of toggle abilities), which feels like it just trivializes builds and be less thoughtful about balancing the Power stats. As a result, people throw in Blind Rage, Transient Fortitude and Power Drift into their builds because energy management became pretty obsolete due to the current Focus system.

Which is sad.

No it does not. Some builds require blind rage simply because we don't have enough mod slots. Hell, I ended up having no flow, no vitality, vigor or redirection on peaceful provocation night form Equinox due to that fact. And she's super efficient. I have full fleeting+streamline+primed cont here too and with all that even though it's only 0,3 energy per enemy she can't function without energy overflow in solo, I'm not even talking about teamplay - it eats so much energy like I don't even.

Or Chroma. I only have a place for 1 power mod in him, blind rage, I still need vitality, still fiber and rage - even with energy overflow because of the leeches and because of a life strike that you need to use a lot. Even tho I have full narrow minded and continuity. 

Or ivara. I get her bow is super awesome, but 4 energy per shot? And no way to replenish your energy while using prowl? That's a freaking big nope. 

Some frames need blind rage to be able to even do something. Yeah some novas or mags are able to cast their powers more often, it's still way worse than having an EV in your team and when you don't have EV it's barely enough if you don't use primed flow and energy restores. Some frames became playable for me only due to having energy owerflow. Which is sad af, no one likes to worry about energy so much to the point of avoiding playing certain frames.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

17 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

The SHOOTING is not the primary in this game, the ABILITIES are.

Then why are there (theoretically) limited energy and different energy costs for skills in the first place?

23 minutes ago, magusat999 said:

Anyone using G-mag? (...) How about Mesa???

So setting up macros and going afk is your idea of warframe's "primary" gameplay?