All this hate towards tonkor.....

[Ailith]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

The only problem i see is it's lack of self-damage compared to other launchers. That's all. Not the damage itself.

The problem with a self-damaging Tonkor is that you would literally kill yourself with every shot, its explosion radius is huge and there's not a single frame that could take a hit from it and live (except maybe Trinity, but that's cheating).

The Tonkor is a weapon that just "works"; it kills whatever you point it at and is fun to use because it's so reliable. Every other weapons seems sub-par in comparison because either A) they are or B) enemy scaling makes them irrelevant. I don't take my Tonkor into every mission, but I use it when I know my other weapons will struggle. That's why I love it.

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time typing this though, the horde of people who cry for nerfs always ruin everything and there's no way to change that. As someone has said before, "Warframe is either too hard or too easy, there is no inbetween", but let's not ask for proper game balance. Nope. Let's just make things unnecessarily harder and less fun.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Ailith

[WARLOCKE]

2 minutes ago, Ailith said:

The problem with a self-damaging Tonkor is that you would literally kill yourself with every shot, its explosion radius is huge and there's not a single frame that could take a hit from it and live (except maybe Trinity, but that's cheating).

The Tonkor is a weapon that just "works"; it kills whatever you point it at and is fun to use because it's so reliable. Every other weapons seems sub-par in comparison because either A) they are or B) enemy scaling makes them irrelevant.

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time typing this though, the horde of people who cry for nerfs always ruin everything and there's no way to change that. As someone has said before, "Warframe is either too hard or too easy, there is no inbetween", but let's not ask for proper game balance. Nope. Let's just make things unnecessarily harder and less fun.

So you admit its op then question why players would have a problem with that? The crutch is real.

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, Ailith said:

The problem with a self-damaging Tonkor is that you would literally kill yourself with every shot, its explosion radius is huge and there's not a single frame that could take a hit from it and live (except maybe Trinity, but that's cheating).

I'm well aware of that and unless they fix this, it shouldn't get touched. And it can also get it's own self-damage explosion radius so you got more breathing room.

2 minutes ago, Ailith said:

The Tonkor is a weapon that just "works"; it kills whatever you point it at and is just fun to use.

The problem is it works too good lmao.

2 minutes ago, Ailith said:

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time typing this though, the horde of people who cry for nerfs always ruin everything and there's no way to change that. As someone has said before, "Warframe is either too hard or too easy, there is no inbetween", but let's not ask for proper game balance. Nope. Let's just make things unnecessarily harder and less fun.

Don't mix me in lol. I was just saying the self of lack damage is the only problem the tonkor has and probably the only legitimate reason for it to get "nerfed" aka self-damage. But tbh, i don't care if it's get changed or not. Just wanting to stay honest. I'm always having fun with my good ol' snipetron vandal whether there are tonkor users or not. The argument "i can't get kills cuz my m8s use tonkor" is a blatant fallacy.

[LotusBF]

Tonkor doesn't need change at all.

[shyguyk]

2 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

The argument "i can't get kills cuz my m8s use tonkor" is a blatant fallacy.

Would you agree, that unless you're going out of your way to avoid the guy with the launcher while using a semi auto/sniper rifle, the amount of shots you will land on enemies will drop off drastically? Though it may not apply in those giant sized tiles.

[Serafim_94]

Would still take my bows over Tonkor every time I'm not farming neurodes. Tonkor aiming is absolutely horrible, grenade hitbox is non-existent, resulting in absolutely hilarious and infuriating crotch-misses, and whenever Nullifier shows, it instantly becomes useless.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Serafim_94

[IceColdHawk]

Just now, shyguyk said:

Would you agree, that unless you're going out of your way to avoid the guy with the launcher while using a semi auto/sniper rifle, the amount of shots you will land on enemies will drop off drastically? Though it may not apply in those giant sized tiles.

Snipers aren't in a good spot in warframe anyway. But i deal enough damage and kills to be happy (and even to keep up with tonkor). So no, my shots won't drop off drastically.

[shyguyk]

1 minute ago, IceColdHawk said:

Snipers aren't in a good spot in warframe anyway. But i deal enough damage and kills to be happy (and even to keep up with tonkor). So no, my shots won't drop off drastically.

Well I would like to have a job in exterminate missions. In other types, it exists, but is not so bad.

[IceColdHawk]

4 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

Well I would like to have a job in exterminate missions.

Now this is something, i can't really agree with.

Exterminate missions are one of the most boring and straight-forward repetitive missions in the game. The only times i run ext's are to speedrun it to get a specific reward or sorties done. I don't like playing on the same map for the 10000th time and needing so much time when the enemies aren't even a big deal anyway against my modded stuff. And i wouldn't snipe in exterminate neither, it just takes too freaking long. And this is the reason why you see embers running around in ext's or mag's in corpus sortie ext or mirage w. simulor or equinox. Not because it's "fun" to press one button to wreck everything but because the game mode is just too boring.

I for one am happy to have an ember with me so i don't have to waste too much time into getting my alert/invasion done.

Edited May 15, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[Cat__Nap]

I think the self damage on launchers in general just needs to be capped, and then added to Tonkor. It makes no sense for us to oneshot ourselves with any weapon, whether that's Tonkor, Penta, Kulstar, etc. Cap the damage so it's not insane unless your weapon is horribly modded or unranked, add it to Tonkor, and problem fixed. I will say there are downsides with Tonkor that some other launchers don't have (particularly its accuracy, which isn't too good unless you're running the Zephyr build), but I also agree that it's far too easy to obtain and far too easy to use for the damage it puts out.

I only use mine in specific missions (such as Akkad, when I'm leveling frames or weapons), and honestly I don't find it that fun in general. There are other weapons I have way more fun with but don't do as much burst damage up front to mobs in a 3 mile radius. It's not a balanced weapon and it does need a change, whether that's a higher MR req or self damage or something else.

[Sloan441]

Yeah, because a weapon that trivializes the whole game is a good thing.

It's not fun. If you get someone with one of these in a mission, you may as well not be there. It doesn't matter who you are or what you're carrying--you're completely superfluous.

The weapon has no downside, other than the short arcing trajectory--which can be mitigated by other means.

Why this thing made into the game in its present form just boggles the imagination. The only amusing thing about this crutch was watching folks trying to do the Kela throne room fight with it. Amusing and sad, since they'd become so reliant on this thing to carry them along, they simply couldn't cope with the rotating keys. Not that there wasn't another gimmick weapon capable of trivializing that, but at least that one isn't dominant in the other 99.97% of the game.

[WARLOCKE]

5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Yeah, because a weapon that trivializes the whole game is a good thing.

It's not fun. If you get someone with one of these in a mission, you may as well not be there. It doesn't matter who you are or what you're carrying--you're completely superfluous.

The weapon has no downside, other than the short arcing trajectory--which can be mitigated by other means.

Why this thing made into the game in its present form just boggles the imagination. The only amusing thing about this crutch was watching folks trying to do the Kela throne room fight with it. Amusing and sad, since they'd become so reliant on this thing to carry them along, they simply couldn't cope with the rotating keys. Not that there wasn't another gimmick weapon capable of trivializing that, but at least that one isn't dominant in the other 99.97% of the game.

Ill say it twice but I wont say it once. The Crutch is real.

[xmegarockx]

if tonkor self damage then no one will use it ever again like other explosive weapons like penta.

[-BM-Mitz]

Tonkor has the lowest mastery requirements of all launchers. No self damage, highest damaging AND Huge explosion radius. 

Who cares much for bad aim and small mag when one sorta-in-thr-right-direction shot can kill everything. 

I believe thatTonkor and the other launchers should be changed in some way cause this is stupid from every angle you see it. 

[Lijka]

1 hour ago, IceColdHawk said:

The only problem i see is it's lack of self-damage compared to other launchers.

Quoted for truth. Lack of self damage makes other launchers useless. Either give it to tonkor or take it away from other launchers.

[Zachhh]

4 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Quoted for truth. Lack of self damage makes other launchers useless. Either give it to tonkor or take it away from other launchers.

Lack of self damage has nothing to do with why I use the tonkor over any other launcher. Self damage on the tonkor would make absolutely no sense. The grenades are very difficult to control, unlike the penta which detonates whenever you want, or the ogris which fires in a straight line. Oftentimes you'll miss a tonkor shot because of a weird uncontrollable bounce, and it will only explode 10 seconds later because you or an enemy walks over it.

Lack of self damage IS NOT what makes the tonkor more powerful, it's the large range combined with the incredible damage resulting from how crits and headshots work in this game.

If the penta had the exact same stats as the tonkor but kept the self damage, the penta wouldn't be obsolete. It would be better. LACK OF SELF DAMAGE ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE TONKOR OP.

[Currilicious]

1 hour ago, CMcDrake said:

Seeing this balancing threads of tonkor on forums makes me sad. Dont the non-tonkor player understand that tonkor does have drawbacks.? The small clip size , the bouncy nades , sh1ty aim etc does balance this launcher. While i believe that it is very good at clearing mobs it doesnt mean it should be nerfed or balanced. It is good where it is at. 

MAYBE if we really want a change to the tonkor , Lock it up at a higher MR

It doesn't matter. These people are role-playing game developers in a game forums.

That's their end-game content, if you could believe it. Much like Fashion Frame, but far more narcissistic, and destructive.

It's like a witch hunt. There will always be another witch. And, it won't stop until all the witches, mostly imaginary, are dead.

[Lijka]

As you said yourself: you can miss with the tonkor and grenades can bounce back to you. Now, without self damage it's of no concern. You miss, you reload and you shoot again. No risk involved while you still get large aoe and big damage. So either add self-damage so it's a high risk - high reward weapon or don't add it and re-balance the tonkor in some other way. Personally I'd go for two different shooting modes: self-dmg + high damage and/or big aoe and no self-dmg and reduced stats.

[TrinityPrime]

Sooo, is that a no to adding self-damage to tonkor while introducing an altfire that does far less damage but low-no self damage while ragdoll launching enemies, possibly with increased status chance? And of course, fixing the interaction between tonkor and the player to be more in-line with parkour 2.0.

[shyguyk]

6 minutes ago, KnotOfMetal said:

Sooo, is that a no to adding self-damage to tonkor while introducing an altfire that does far less damage but low-no self damage while ragdoll launching enemies, possibly with increased status chance? And of course, fixing the interaction between tonkor and the player to be more in-line with parkour 2.0.

This is one of the preferred outcomes actually. But I'm going to get hell for using "preferred" since preferences don't matter to game balance.

Edited May 15, 2016 by shyguyk

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, CMcDrake said:

I dont think something needs to be done to tonkor tho .. As i said lock it up at a higher Mastery rank!! or maybe well increase the self damage . Not to the extent that it would easily kill us or do very less dmg but a balanced dmg should be nough!!!

1. Welcome to Warframe... This has been happening for a long long long time now. After the tonkor, I am predicting the Synoid rifle being next on deck.

2. Locking it up at a higher mastery just means that newer players who didn't manage to get it before the change date will have cause to complain.

3. The extent you don't want it to go to is exactly the extent most folks want to see it get to.

Personally, I think the whole launcher category needs to get re-worked(primary and secondary). Every item in it should be a viable choice to players interested in balancing the trade-offs. As it is, it's a category that has probably 1 item in the middle ground with the Torid as an area denial tool.

Everything else either over or under performs when balanced against its' drawbacks.

Likewise, some of them are able to get griefed on by other players.

[ComfyOlivia]

OR (now hear me out), OR, OOORRR we could let people play the way they want.

The only real problem with the weapons in Warframe lies in the fact that a good fourth of them are hardly viable even in the later mid-tier. Why is there so much focus on this one weapon being powerful when cool weapons, like the Miter, Silva and Aegis, Stradavar, and so many others, are hardly worth using because they aren't very usable in the late-game?

Either way, if someone wants to play a certain why that doesn't harm DE or other players, why try to stop them?

[CMcDrake]

4 minutes ago, CoRRh said:

 

Either way, if someone wants to play a certain why that doesn't harm DE or other players, why try to stop them?

THIS !!!!

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

52 minutes ago, Zachhh said:

If the penta had the exact same stats as the tonkor but kept the self damage, the penta wouldn't be obsolete. It would be better. LACK OF SELF DAMAGE ISN'T WHAT MAKES THE TONKOR OP.

If the penta had no self damage, itd be better than the tonkor.

[T7Alpha]

People acting like juicy crits from the tonkor are changing everything when 90% of the time it's just overkill and you are running around with a 2 shot clip for no real reason because the mobs could be 1 hit killed by the sonicor.