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Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]


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Shock has only two advantages over Discharge. It has infinite range and it costs less energy. Energy is a non-issue 95% of the time and there are only a few tilesets that allow enemies to shoot you outside of Discharge's range, not to mention that most enemies don't even fire from that range. So yes, Shock is pretty useless. I could just use Discharge, get the same effect and more as an AoE.

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12 hours ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

indeed, talk about romanticization.

overload was infamous for being one of if not the worst 4 in the entire game... only being viable as a damage dealing skill on a handful of tilesets and even there only once. it's cc potential was easily matched by a couple of shocks... one might argue about the effectivity of discharge with its damage cap: anyway it's better than overload ever was. and i see more volts nowadays in pugs than a year ago, not only capture missions... purely anecdotal of course.

His ult was amazing provided you only used it once to kill everything, I would be flying through mission killing trash mobs before myself and other players got there. stunning the larger ones.

The light mechanic worked on pretty much every tile I played. And when it did, it kept up with a polarize mag damage wise on corpus sortie's NO PROBLEM.

That really should have been the only thing they fixed. literally all they had to do was reverse his passive and his ult would be worth mentioning. Instead of using movement to charge him, overload and any instance of electrical damage dealt should have a stacking "static charge counter" on each enemy that could be "discharged" and turn the enemies into pylons with multiple low duration staggers.

tada fixed volt.

also why even remove the environmental damage from the lights? if it was so "weak or underpowered" why even take it away.

I can tell you for a fact with mid damage high range build those lights would just shock enemies over and over until they were dead.

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9 hours ago, Cytobel said:

Not to open a can of worms, but what does Volt NEED?

I'm serious here.  What does he need in terms of reworks/buffs to make him catch back up with the pack in your opinion(s)?

Me, I'd buff his sprint speed to a 1.2 and up his base energy max to 225, and his armor to 65 (for non-Prime).  Any tweaking to skills needs to consider the fact that Electricity gargles testicles as damage and WILL be reworked (hopefully sooner rather than later).  Following that logic, I hope Electricity will start making enemies enter a falling down animation on proc.  I say animation because they tend to be uninterruptable.  That would help the element out quite a bit WITHOUT ADDING BIGGER NUMBERS and expecting that to fix it.

I'd like Shock to stop hitting things behind be for a start.  Screw that one stupid bastard with the meat cleaver, I NEED to stun the death squad I'm aiming at.  I could go for some sort of static charge aspect to the skill, something that could buff subsequent damage or add in another element of control (imagine Shocked being electrostatically attracted to each other!).

Speed could be heavily rebuilt or totally replaced.  Make a 'Frame based off a Cheetah or something and stop trying to suggest this is Volt's speciality.  I'd prefer a mid-range blink skill.  If Speed goes, we can add a passive speed buff to Channeling so that the movie sequence isn't lying (and Channeling suddenly makes more sense).  If Speed stays at LEAST buff the base effect, tone back it's strength scaling slightly, and give it a base 20 seconds duration.  Make it viable from day 1, level 3.

Electric Shield lost something when it lost the projectile hitscan (railgun effect), and it lost something even more when it stopped boosting range on beam weapons.  I loved those aspects of ES.  Riot Shield has been ripped apart often enough that we all can practically recite line and verse in sync.  Making this aspect of Electric Shield viable is crucial.

Discharge would be an easy fix for me.  Just make it castable in the air (gimmie back my Overload Cannonball dammit!), and look at making the move lock things down more reliably but for less time.  Why the bleeding hells does this have a base duration of 20 seconds and Speed just 10?!?  Switch that around and dump the damage cap.  Job's done.  If the damage goes too crazy then we can look at reducing the damage from there.

We know we want change, so we should specify WHAT would work best for us.  Also, I don't care what you think about Volt losing Speed, the thought of it going to a Cheetah 'Frame would at least fit (not to mention how uncomfortably happy the thought of this makes some of you), and blinking around would be at LEAST as fun.

(Cheetah 'Frame with base sprint speed of 1.8 and a passive speed boost based off of how far you've been running with a 3 second window before it disspells.  You want this right meow.)

This is awesomw, but i wouldnt even worry about inconsistencies with the trailers at this point. Did you watch trailer they put out for nekros? All lies

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We cant do this alone. One, two, or 5 individual volt posts isnt going to do anything. I was actually working on my own volt post (again) when all these other popped up, and its cool that people feel the same way, but DE wont pay any special attention. We need an idea everyone agrees with, tons of upvotes and community support, something everyone likes. 

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I like the passive change and the Palpatine ability. And Volt's shield adding to the passive would be awesome to encourage casting more

However i see the running up walls being a problem due to slight overhangs on ledges getting in the way half the time

I like the idea of a blink type capability instead. While under the effects of Speed, his bullet jumps now instantly blink to that distance. MAYBE make it possible to blink multiple times in air at the cost of energy

I say maybe because then Zephyr would kinda lose her niche

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There are some problems with reworking Speed into a blink ability, mainly because it offers Attack Speed and Reload Speed as well as the Movement Speed. I also see a problem with the orientation for the player, you can get lost pretty easily when you are just blinking around.

As for getting stuck when running up walls, I will simply trust in the ability of DE's coders to come up with a sleak solution, so that Volt can bypass ledges that would otherwise block his path.

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On 12/29/2016 at 2:25 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

We cant do this alone. One, two, or 5 individual volt posts isnt going to do anything. I was actually working on my own volt post (again) when all these other popped up, and its cool that people feel the same way, but DE wont pay any special attention. We need an idea everyone agrees with, tons of upvotes and community support, something everyone likes. 

That might be because a lot of people have given up on Volt. There weren't a lot of volt fans before, and there aren't many now. 

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  • No Emperor Palpatine. Jesus, why are a few people so obsessed with such a boring and unoriginal idea?
    • What's wrong:
      • It requires charging/selecting and holding down the appropriate key which limits movement.
      • I also fail to see how continuously firing anything is better than one large shot.
        • Having one large shot allows for a better hit-and-run playstyle
        • It doesn't cause wasted potential damage (like killing an enemy then running around still spraying lightning)
        • It works better functionally as all you do is tie the charge time to a damage multiplier (rather than duration, which would force Shock into being an electrical flamethrower)
        • It also retains Shock's functionality if one perhaps holds the key longer than a split second.
      • what's wrong if you went with charging:
        • Charging in general will lower Shock's capability as a panic button and especially lower its spammability, both of which are hallmarks of Shock
      • What's wrong if you went with a selection "Quiver" idea instead:
        • You don't need a "Quiver select" for only two versions of the same thing, its excessive and only distracts from the game's flow. The reason why Quiver/Minelayer's selection works is because they are on frames that are relatively tactical and have relatively slower gameplay than the gameplay Volt is built for.
        • You would need to charge up Shock, lowering its spammability and its capability as a panic button, both of which (again) are hallmarks of Shock.
      • Again, it seems so boring an idea imo.
      • Forcing one to holster their weapons while they spew lightning from their fingers is bad for damage and ultimately survivability. There is not such thing as "a potent alternative to gunplay" as guns will always outdamage an ability. The only frames as far as I'm concerned that is actually built to be an alternative to gunplay are Ember, Excalibur, Inaros, and Valkyr.
    • A better way to increase damage output would be combo-casting, like that used by Landslide. The damage would ramp up and the cost would ramp down. It would be much more awesome/look better and would interfere with the gameflow less than charging up Force Lightning.
  • Why does Speed need this? I'm not so much against what you suggest as I am curious why this is an issue.
    • If you want better vertical mobility then just have it increase the jump height. Granted, this would mess with your allies even more, and give Volt less ground time, lowering his passive's charge rate.
    • Why does he need better vertical mobility in the first place when bullet jumping exists?
    • I suggest that instead of buffing jump/wallrun height, have Speed also affect casting speed (you're welcome Limbo and Titania) as it would be a useful general team buff and buff Volt's gameplay (especially if there is combo-casting rather than charging/multi-select on Shock), I believe it would make Discharge's casting time go down, making it more safe for Volt to use.
  • I agree that having the absorbed damage power his passive would be very awesome. I'm 100% for this.
  • Being able to use your primary while having an invincible forward shield is a bit much. Frankly, at that point I'd say the outrageous cost of Riot Shield is more justifiable.
  • On the issue of Electric Shield/Riot Shield's energy drain:
    • They need to get rid of the movement cost as it not only goes against Volt's mobility theme, but it penalizes the usage of Riot Shield and goes completely against the use of Riot Shield's Batter Ram function.
    • They also need to lower the cost of Electric Shield to 50 energy imo. Why:
      • Because not only is Electric Shield often deployed multiple times but also the usage of Riot Shield requires you to first cast Electric Shield. Furthermore, continued use of Riot Shield requires you to recast Electric Shield again and again, each of which requires 75 energy. No other "toggle" (except Inaros's Sandstorm, if I recall) has such an expensive initial cost. Even Mirage's Prism (which also has a max duration) has a cheaper initial cost.
      • Lowering the initial cost to 50 will free up 25 energy which is conveniently enough for Shock or Speed, both of which have special effects when combined with Electric/Riot Shield.
      • Freeing up 25 energy will also give one 5 seconds of Riot Shield
      • The drain cost of Riot is mitigated by both Duration and Efficiency.
  • I also support restricting his passive's buff to his abilities. It just makes more sense and isn't possibly wasted by either shooting and missing and when using beam weapons.
  • Why are people so obsesses with trying to make Volt a damage caster? Because of an outdated description? His current kit at most is only half built for damage power play and half for gunplay. Prior to his rework he was almost 100% built for gunplay. He was a "potent buff to gunplay" and is now a "potent alternative/buff to gunplay". I see where you are going, and your rework would force him more into the "alternative" than "buff" category, but is that really needed? We already have frames built for non-gunplay like Ember(ish), Excal, Inaros, and Valkyr.

 

Overall, I really like the synergy between E.shield and his passive. That is an excellent idea, as is restricting his passive's buff to his abilties. But I absolutely hate the Force Lightning idea. I've always hated it, and I always will hate it. Its unoriginality is extremely obvious, it creates problems for Volt's gameplay, and there are much better alternatives. Furthermore, we already have it as the electrical Spectral Scream.

Edited by Insizer
I forgot to remove the quote of the main post which I use to reference. I also forgot one thing
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On 12/29/2016 at 10:06 AM, KaeseSchnitte said:

Shock has only two advantages over Discharge. It has infinite range and it costs less energy. Energy is a non-issue 95% of the time and there are only a few tilesets that allow enemies to shoot you outside of Discharge's range, not to mention that most enemies don't even fire from that range. So yes, Shock is pretty useless. I could just use Discharge, get the same effect and more as an AoE.

And a close to medium range electric flamethrower won't add anything either. Energy is not a non-issue 95% of the time as it is the primary reason why the Riot Shield and especially Batter Ram functions are nearly self-defeating if not completely self-defeating. Discharge is also a poor panic button. Plus, all you've said is that Volt's ult does a similar thing as his first ability, but better. You can say the same about other frames as well. Ember, Frost, Oberon, and Trinity (minus the combo) are the same.

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19 hours ago, KaeseSchnitte said:

There are some problems with reworking Speed into a blink ability

I didnt mean change Speed into Blink. I mean while Volt, and only Volt, is under the effects of the original Speed skill his bullet jumping would do a quick teleport to the distance it normally would. It would just be an added feature to Speed.

Once again, maybe the ability to do the blink/bullet jump multiple times in the air but at the cost of energy

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On 31.12.2016 at 7:22 PM, Insizer said:

[...]

Hoooo boy, this will be a long one to respond to. To keep readability, I'll use Italic for each of your points.

Shock:

> It requires charging/selecting and holding down the appropriate key which limits movement.

I personally see no problem with this, as I am already spamming E more often than not, which would be the same as holding down 1. That said, you could make it into a toggled ability. You could press and hold the ability for 1 second and Volt will continuously fire until you press 1 again.

> Having one large shot allows for a better hit-and-run playstyle, It doesn't cause wasted potential damage (like killing an enemy then running around still spraying lightning)

My suggestion aims at changing Shock's main usage from a stun to dealing damage, which means that having one big blast is usally not going to be powerful enough to kill enemies, unless you want to invalidate his other 3 abilities. A continuous ability would allow Shock to be as strong as a weapon, having the same time-to-kill. Coincidentially, it allows for hitting enemies for "the right amount", unlike a single blow, which could leave the enemy with 20% HP remaining, which would require you to "waste" 60% of the next Shock's damage on a target which managede to survive your first attack.

> Charging in general will lower Shock's capability as a panic button and especially lower its spammability, both of which are hallmarks of Shock

My suggestion (which I will update shortly) was that pressing the button once will still retain its current function, meaning, you can still use Shock as a panic button. I have no clue why you'd want to spam it tho, since it does no considerable damage at themoment and if you need an AoE stun, you can simply press 4.

> Again, it seems so boring an idea imo.

Your opinion is noted, but naturally, I disagree.

> Forcing one to holster their weapons while they spew lightning from their fingers is bad for damage and ultimately survivability. There is not such thing as "a potent alternative to gunplay" as guns will always outdamage an ability.

Tapping the key will fire only one bolt with only one hand, so as long as you are not continuously firing, you're not going to holster your weapon.

> A better way to increase damage output would be combo-casting, like that used by Landslide. The damage would ramp up and the cost would ramp down. It would be much more awesome/look better and would interfere with the gameflow less than charging up Force Lightning.

How will spamming a button differ from holding that button? Not to mention that the current animation of Shock is way too clunky to be spammed properly. I also don't know how or why it would look better than a continuous lightning bolt fired from Volt's hands.

Speed:

> Why does Speed need this? I'm not so much against what you suggest as I am curious why this is an issue.

I simply wanted to give speed a little something extra. I saw a gif posted in another suggestion thread showing Flash running up a wall and I thought it would fit Volt's theme.

> If you want better vertical mobility then just have it increase the jump height. Granted, this would mess with your allies even more, and give Volt less ground time, lowering his passive's charge rate.

You basically answered your question yourself. I just know from playing Zephyr that it can be really annoying when a mechanic that has become muscle memory, in this case how far one bullet jump will take you, is suddenly altered.

> Why does he need better vertical mobility in the first place when bullet jumping exists?

For.. reasons. There are some tilesets where bullet jumping does not go far enough. Volt would have an upper leg in those tilesets over other frames.

> I suggest that instead of buffing jump/wallrun height, have Speed also affect casting speed (you're welcome Limbo and Titania) as it would be a useful general team buff and buff Volt's gameplay (especially if there is combo-casting rather than charging/multi-select on Shock), I believe it would make Discharge's casting time go down, making it more safe for Volt to use.

While that would fit, I'm unsure if it would be too OP. It would certainly make his build choices more centerd around Strength.

Electric Shield:

> I agree that having the absorbed damage power his passive would be very awesome. I'm 100% for this.

Glad you like it.

> Being able to use your primary while having an invincible forward shield is a bit much. Frankly, at that point I'd say the outrageous cost of Riot Shield is more justifiable.

Given that you can already use your secondary, which can be just as strong as your primary, I wouldn't say that it's too OP. In a game where Rhino and Chroma can turn almost invincible while still using primary weapons or Ember and Equinox can kill enemies before they even see them, I'd say that Volt would fit right in. I would however say that it would help out Volt tremendously. With Discharge and Electric Shield you have two abilities on Volt that are particulary effective when you don't have to move, while SPeed gives you the ability to move faster. If anything, lowering the cost of picking up Electric Shield would be the best buff for a run-and.gun playstyle.

> Why are people so obsesses with trying to make Volt a damage caster? Because of an outdated description? His current kit at most is only half built for damage power play and half for gunplay. Prior to his rework he was almost 100% built for gunplay. He was a "potent buff to gunplay" and is now a "potent alternative/buff to gunplay". I see where you are going, and your rework would force him more into the "alternative" than "buff" category, but is that really needed? We already have frames built for non-gunplay like Ember(ish), Excal, Inaros, and Valkyr.

I agree with your question and I want to emphasize that, outside of Electric Shield charging Volt's passive, I've only suggested damage buffs to Shock, since I feel like Shock is currently almost useless and round off his kit. I did not strip any of his supportive qualities from him, nor do I intend to rework him into a damage focussed frame.

At last, I wanted to thank you for remaining so civil, I have had enough "discussions" that went south pretty quick.

Anyways, I'll slightly alter my initial suggestion, adding a synergy between Speed and Electric Shield, building upon my idea for his passive and further elaborating my idea for Shock. I will try to not kill off your usage of Shock, but I will stick to the Palpatine approach, sorry. :P

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On 31/12/2016 at 5:27 PM, Adder9 said:

That might be because a lot of people have given up on Volt. There weren't a lot of volt fans before, and there aren't many now. 

DE even forgot Volt didn't have his deluxe skin

No love for Volt from DE? :(

----------------------------------------------------------------

Sprint spreed - 1.20

Shock - Solid first. But make it so if you held down the button, you do a continuous lightning arc. While it does a lot more damage, takes a lot of energy per second

Speed - Stays the same but when you slam the ground with melee, you do a electric shockwave

Shield - Drain less energy from carrying it. Or non at all. 

Discharge - I find discharge to be wierd sometimes like enemies break out for some reason. Also, based on what I've been hearing. Please remove the damage cap DE

Edited by (PS4)CaptainIMalik
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16 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

What about this idea for synergy? When you do shock on an enemy and cast Speed, you pretty much to a blink to them

Not that kinda useful at all, shock stuns multiple enemies in range and than you need to choose the target to teleporting, some kinda Ash's teleport mechanic or else. The problem is that Volt has no mobility issues (not at all, depends on conditions). In my oppinion the huge disadvantage that he has now is Riot Shield, that cutting down Volt's speed and energy usage. Controversial fact that Volt's fast, but equipping the shield he's not, huge speed reduction and energy/distance draining. So I think that reasonable will be working on synergy within Speed and Shield abilities

Edited by Cryone
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If it were me: I think shock should be capable of creating tesla coils in the same way discharge can, but only one or two enemies.

Because of this, the "explosion" from shocking a tesla coiled enemy would be almost instanteous, causing arcs that stun nearby enemies. In short, it still chains to nearby enemies, but for different reasons. Of course this means the "explosion" needs to be real, like an arc trap, instead of a fake fabricated reskinned version of an affinity orb effect that can barely be seen (rant).

Shock should have the same animation on any charged (tesla coiled) container as the animation that a broken circuit container has (slowly breaks apart with electricity arcing inside). This will turn it into a small arc trap deal as well, to better fit the decription of what it says its supposed to do.

Because shock will tesla coil, discharge doesnt need to rely soley on this gimmick alone. 

And in the question of holding it down for continuous cast, as long as the animation and effects are cool, i dont care about damage. It just needs to be implemented well.

The tesla coil from discharge will not rely on a damage cap, but a simple decay akin to nekros shadow of the dead (which is bad for him the way it is currently implemented) that can be refreshed by shock. 

So, after you have tesla coiled a group of enemies, you can extend the duration of the stun with shock by recoiling a few, or recasting the ult. As time goes on without the coil being broken, it will damage the target more, but drain several times as fast. 

Speed. "Speed energizes the surrounding environment". Speed will build up (possibly rather violently) and then drain energy off of volt like inaros scarab armor when held down, which will allow you to control how much time you get in the ability. The ability can be quick cast like normal. Recasting it will not reset the timer, but add small increments of the base duration onto existing time. The animation will have to be worked on, but like the tesla coils, even though it is possible to be kept up almost indefinitely, a greater cost overtime will set a limit.

Running in an area affected by discharge or speed will naturally boost your passive static charge. Because while 1000 damage does nothing now, If it built up faster, itd be worth mentioning...and automatic weapons wouldn't be so bad either.

Sheilds. Having multiple sheilds up, and casting shock will no longer require each sheild to be shocked individually. Electricity will arc between the sheilds just like it does anything else. You will be able to properly shield bash enemies, not running into them, but when blocking and moving forward, bash an enemy the way sheild lancers do. The riot sheild will not have a timer, nor will it cost extra on movement. Instead, overtime, the cost for holding the shield will increase. Running with an electrically charged sheild will have the same effect shocking speed has, but will drain off your energy pool faster.

Discharge will have two versions. One allows you to tesla coil enemies like normal, but with a twist to how it functions. When you press the ult key (what ever it is for you) volt jumps into the air only from player input (you jump if you want to jump, abiltity can be cast anywhere). same attack, but it is not ground locked. This is the "damage" focused mobile normal pre rework energy version. There is no damage cap. When you hold down the ult, you will build up static energy to the 1000 cap from your energy pool if not already full (it can be activated at zero energy), eventually looking like this

https://imgur.com/1oN23Ng

Every ability will be ground locked after this, but will deal damage purely from your static energy pool. because this will drain off that static energy you built up to 1000, you effectively have more energy in this, but attacks will be severly weakened (static electricity v.s. dynamic/current electricity) Your energy pool is the one that recharges, just slower than static energy does, and only from conductive objects (containers and enemies). This is the cc focused turtle mode we have now.

Summary : you build up static electricity and use regular energy/build up regular energy and use static. And i like how scarab armor has a two staged process....could work for discharge and speed is all im saying.

I might copy and past this into a post later

Edited by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edited
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9 hours ago, Cryone said:

Not that kinda useful at all, shock stuns multiple enemies in range and than you need to choose the target to teleporting, some kinda Ash's teleport mechanic or else. The problem is that Volt has no mobility issues (not at all, depends on conditions). In my oppinion the huge disadvantage that he has now is Riot Shield, that cutting down Volt's speed and energy usage. Controversial fact that Volt's fast, but equipping the shield he's not, huge speed reduction and energy/distance draining. So I think that reasonable will be working on synergy within Speed and Shield abilities

What if Volt could physically wear the Shield on his person? Or is that too overpowered? It would make sense to me gameplay wise since he is one of the most squishiest frames.

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12 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

What if Volt could physically wear the Shield on his person? Or is that too overpowered? It would make sense to me gameplay wise since he is one of the most squishiest frames.

For sure as an alternative you can always use Ack and Brunt or Silva & Aegis if you want to wear shield physically. Otherwise some of Volt's abilities remind me of the all time favourite old sci-fi game Advent Rising where main character had an arsenal of special abilities and some of them are similar to Volt (spoiler below), so one of them is Shield (and the second option of it is Sphere) abilities. So in my oppinion I would rather when equip shield by X have some sort of energy sphere (screen 2) even with speed/energy reduction but protected from physical projectiles.

Spoiler

Картинки по запросу advent rising sphere

 

Spoiler

FyT78ny.jpg

 

Edited by Cryone
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5 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainIMalik said:

What do you mean?

All you have to do is run into an enemy with riot sheild and its supposed to knock them away, but i dont think youll ever see anyone do it because its a pointless waste of energy to carry the sheild anywhere in the first place, and bumping them away isnt really all that useful either, so why DE spent time implementing that instead of adressing the real issues people had with the ability, i do not know (check page 34 or around there for that whole thing). May just be my opinion.

Edited by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Typo was bugging me
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50 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

All you have to do is run into an enemy with riot sheild and its supposed to knock them away, but i dont think youll ever see anyone do it because its a pointless waste of energy to carry the sheild anywhere in the first place, and bumping them away isnt really all that useful in the first place, so why DE spent time implementing that instead of adressing the real issues people had with the ability, i do not know (check page 34 or around there for that whole thing). May just be my opinion.

while i somewhat appreciate the feature and sometimes (rarely tho) use it if not for practical then at least for comedic reasons i have to agree: it's nothing old volt fans asked for. but that's so typical DE...

playerbase: "can we has damage 3.0 pl0x?"

DE: "here, have some lunaro!"

etc...

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