Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Renzey]

Here's my thoughts on Volt. I figure I'd post something because I've loved him ever since I picked him as my starter years ago.

Passive: I think it fits him, though I'll have to play more to see how much the additional damage matters in the long run. No, I'm not sorry for that.

Shock: I'm glad they kept it as a stun-on-a-stick. It's his 1 and it's simple.

Speed: I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I actually liked the FoV increase. It allowed me to see more of what was around Volt as I whisked about the map. I'd personally like to see it back as a toggle, as to not force it on other players. Having his speed be a pickup-on-use for squad mates was well intended, but quite a few posters have brought up the valid point that if Volt is behind others, it's largely useless. Backtracking for a speed boost is counter-intuitive. I would instead have liked an alternative opt out system, much like Limbo's Banish, except instead of rolling, have Speed be cancelled by, say, a backflip. Or a stationary crouch (not a slide or midair kick).

Shield: The new shape of the shield is wider, but doesn't curve as much as the old one did, so it's truly unidirectional. Additionally, placing one shield directly above and directly below you no longer encapsulates you. It's a mixed bag in that regard. However I have noticed that if you're looking at eye-level, approximately 1/5 of the shield is actually underground. Try placing another shield next to it, pick it up, jump, and place it back so the bottom just touches the floor. Not game-breaking, but it does bother me, since the previous Shield didn't do that. As for the Shock synergy, it's pretty neat how it offers some damage, but am disappointed that it doesn't offer a stun like Shocking Speed does. I was really excited to be able to pick up Volt's Shield but the energy cost for holding it, and moving any distance is just too high. In addition to having the shield shrink to a pathetic size while doing so completely defeats the purpose of holding it, as well as Volt's premise in the first place.

Spoiler

Overload Discharge: So his ult goes from (on paper) dealing loads of damage to being a large AoE stun. I can deal with this, and will most likely encourage me to use it a bit more. However I do not feel this ability fits with Volt's kit very well.

Final observations: Volt is still no "alternative to gunplay" but his abilities cause a juxtaposition of niche. Is he a mobile frame, or is his intent more to defend and hold down small points? To me it seems he is meant for the former, so having a huge cost and diminished protection dissuading the use of picking up his shield, and Discharge being still a stationary move is odd. In order to explore Volt's arsenal to the fullest, you'd simply need a lot of energy (you want me to use his 4, then charge it up with his 1, while still protecting myself with a shield?) Yes I know power efficiency is a thing, but it's still a little absurd.

My recommendations: Remove the movement-related energy cost on picking up Volt's Shield, don't limit weapon use to his secondary/melee, don't have the shield range reduced by so much, re-think the curve of the shield to offer at least slightly more protections from things not immediately visible in your FoV. For Volt's 4, I would re-think this ability as a whole to aid a Volt in motion. If we're going to have Volt be thought of as a mobile frame, his ultimate ability should reflect this.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Renzey

[Faeduin]

34 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

The formula used is Meters per Energy = 1 / (1-X) where X is your efficiency. (When you have negative efficiency  it is -(1 / (1-X). The Energy drain per second is the same as a standard toggle ability. You will need both high efficiency and a good duration to keep it held for very long.

I know this, however that's an entire issue by itself, no other ability has a movement speed boost like Volt's that highlights this problem. The idea behind the rework was to create synergy between his abilities and add scalability, yet here you have a mechanic which discourages you from activating an entire ability, in this case speed while holding the riot shield, or you suffer an incredibly unfair sting that no other frame is experiencing. This is compounded by the design of the riot shield impacting your movement speed which leads one to assume the natural offset is to synergize that with Speed and you arrive at the natural conclusion that it is draining energy much to fast, unless you have an EV Trinity, energy restores, or Volt Prime with Prime Flow to offset it, something not all players will have access to. 

All of this is before the fact that lately, most frame reworks have been more relaxed on stat allocations (duration, strength, range, etc.) and their impacts on playstyles while his more or less completely destroys any sense of maintaining a balance of them, as stated in this thread multiple times.

27 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

Almost entirely using his abilities - wanted to try using him as purely a caster frame. I had Vaykor Hek as well, but only shot the hyenas mostly.

A shot from a Hek can skew numbers by quite a bit... Regardless, none of that matters, I'm sure I or anyone else could achieve the same results given the same opportunity, but again all of this depends on variations that newer players may not have access to. The frame should be balanced and adjusted around it's original counterpart not any upgrades or rare mods one may have access too. 

 I've tested Volt extensively tonight and while I certainly agree his damage output based solely on abilities is higher now, the set up and execution of them is still lacking and they are still miles behind most other frames that are considered offensive. To be honest though, I was always fine with low damage, high crowd control abilities on Volt, as I've said in the thread before, my preferred playstyle was melee with him and this complimented that but that is only one playstyle among many. So yes, his damage is slightly higher, should we just stop there?

 I think people are getting too caught up on what they have available to them and that really isn't fair feedback, consider all the angles.

15 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

Sure, it's here, but it's nothing special. I also just slapped it together before doing the alerts and figured something relatively balanced would be good for trying out his rework, so I'm by no means thinking it can't be vastly improved on:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

For comparison's sake, this is the build I was running before the patch and what I've been experimenting with tonight:

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Kedai

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Did...did they actually nerf speed for no reason? Rly DE?

[YagoXiten]

19 minutes ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

 This new 4th seems to deal low damage

This is most definitely false.

The damage will fall off drastically against armored targets or high leveled enemies, but the actual sheet DPS of it is one of, if not the highest, of all the nukes. It might help to note that it is dealt in half second intervals, so you will see 225 rather than 450 whenever it ticks.

From my research so far, the damage over time and CC effects both end on a Tesla Coil upon them reaching its damage limit (Health in the UI), which only counts damage dealt from Discharge's Tesla Coil zaps, or when the time on the Effect Duration (as it is listed in the UI) runs out. This means that with a maximum Power Strength build, Volt can deal a total of 11,960 damage divided across all in the zap range, per target affected. When I tested this in the Simulacrum, 270% Power Strength versus eight Level 100 Corrupted MOAs, I was capable of completely killing one and critically wounding multiple with a mere three casts. That's quite the scaling, compared to most nukes.

[Aquasurge]

4 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

This is most definitely false.

The damage will fall off drastically against armored targets or high leveled enemies, but the actual sheet DPS of it is one of, if not the highest, of all the nukes. It might help to note that it is dealt in half second intervals, so you will see 225 rather than 450 whenever it ticks.

From my research so far, the damage over time and CC effects both end on a Tesla Coil upon them reaching its damage limit (Health in the UI), which only counts damage dealt from Discharge's Tesla Coil zaps, or when the time on the Effect Duration (as it is listed in the UI) runs out. This means that with a maximum Power Strength build, Volt can deal a total of 11,960 damage divided across all in the zap range, per target affected. When I tested this in the Simulacrum, 270% Power Strength versus eight Level 100 Corrupted MOAs, I was capable of completely killing one and critically wounding multiple with a mere three casts. That's quite the scaling, compared to most nukes.

but still requires a lot of effort and forma to do right?

it would be nice if discharge dealt finisher dmg. i'd bet then people would stop complaining. in fact half the things we predicted about the rework were acctually true.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge

[YagoXiten]

17 minutes ago, Kedai said:

I know this, however that's an entire issue by itself, no other ability has a movement speed boost like Volt's that highlights this problem. The idea behind the rework was to create synergy between his abilities and add scalability, yet here you have a mechanic which discourages you from activating an entire ability, in this case speed while holding the riot shield, or you suffer an incredibly unfair sting that no other frame is experiencing. This is compounded by the design of the riot shield impacting your movement speed which leads one to assume the natural offset is to synergize that with Speed and you arrive at the natural conclusion that it is draining energy much to fast, unless you have an EV Trinity, energy restores, or Volt Prime with Prime Flow to offset it, something not all players will have access to. 

All of this is before the fact that lately, most frame reworks have been more relaxed on stat allocations (duration, strength, range, etc.) and their impacts on playstyles while his more or less completely destroys any sense of maintaining a balance of them, as stated in this thread multiple times.

A shot from a Hek can skew numbers by quite a bit... Regardless, none of that matters, I'm sure I or anyone else could achieve the same results given the same opportunity, but again all of this depends on variations that newer players may not have access to. The frame should be balanced and adjusted around it's original counterpart not any upgrades or rare mods one may have access too. 

 I've tested Volt extensively tonight and while I certainly agree his damage output based solely on abilities is higher now, the set up and execution of them is still lacking and they are still miles behind most other frames that are considered offensive. To be honest though, I was always fine with low damage, high crowd control abilities on Volt, as I've said in the thread before, my preferred playstyle was melee with him and this complimented that but that is only one playstyle among many. So yes, his damage is slightly higher, should we just stop there?

 I think people are getting too caught up on what they have available to them and that really isn't fair feedback, consider all the angles.

For comparison's sake, this is the build I was running before the patch and what I've been experimenting with tonight:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I was just listing it, in case you or others were not aware. I've yet to post my own feedback. I'm currently doing some more Simulacrum testing to make sure that I didn't miss any mechanical details whilst I think of how to construct my post. I agree with you on all points except that his damage is particularly lacking (see the above post). I also run Volt with a melee focus, and was excited to be able to use Discharge, rather than the previously useless Overload. The mechanics are amazing. The modding is impossible. At least, if I want to utilize all of my abilities or any of the features that were included with the rework.

Edited May 28, 2016 by YagoXiten

[YagoXiten]

3 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

but still requires a lot of effort and forma to do right?

it would be nice if discharge dealt finisher dmg. i'd bet then people would stop complaining. in fact half the things we predicted about the rework were acctually true.

Yes, it does require a lot of effort. Also,  If it dealt Finisher damage, it would be the strongest ability in the game. It would be an easy to use damaging CC ability that could also grant Overshields.

[Aquasurge]

4 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Yes, it does require a lot of effort. Also,  If it dealt Finisher damage, it would be the strongest ability in the game. It would be an easy to use damaging CC ability that could also grant Overshields.

so, you're saying it could be overpowered, what if it reduced armour?

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Faeduin]

1 minute ago, YagoXiten said:

 

I was just listing it, in case you or others were not aware. I've yet to post my own feedback. I'm currently doing some more Simulacrum testing to make sure that I didn't miss any mechanical details whilst I think of how to construct my post. I agree with you on all points except that his damage is particularly lacking. I also run Volt with a melee focus, and was excited to be able to use Discharge, rather than the previously useless Overload. The mechanics are amazing. The modding is impossible. At least, if I want to utilize all of my abilities or any of the features that were included with the rework.

Gotcha, though I don't necessarily think his damage is lacking, I've definitely noticed an increase but like I said, considering the crowd control capabilities of it I don't think it should be on a level with Saryn, who has a slightly similar method of delivering that damage via staggered increments that can be increased by her other powers. In my first post my issue was with how often the coils went off and it's base radius, I'd like faster damage ticks even if it was a lowered amount. As it stands, I find others killing my affected *shudder* Discharges... before any real damage can be ramped up.  More often then not the paralyzed enemies themselves get blown up before the coils can start to affect others coming in range.

[Aquasurge]

1 minute ago, Kedai said:

Gotcha, though I don't necessarily think his damage is lacking, I've definitely noticed an increase but like I said, considering the crowd control capabilities of it I don't think it should be on a level with Saryn, who has a slightly similar method of delivering that damage via staggered increments that can be increased by her other powers. In my first post my issue was with how often the coils went off and it's base radius, I'd like faster damage ticks even if it was a lowered amount. As it stands, I find others killing my affected *shudder* Discharges... before any real damage can be ramped up.  More often then not the paralyzed enemies themselves get blown up before the coils can start to affect others coming in range.

so a delay before the enemies can die would be beneficial?

[YagoXiten]

Just now, Aquasurge said:

so, your saying it could be overpowered, what if it reduced armour?

A maximized build for it is capable of dealing greater than ten thousand damage for each target affected, with CC attached, and a very usable, if a small bit low range.

In a group with four Corrosive Projection Auras, it is capable of being highly competitive at high levels of play for the damage in the shorter T4 missions, or for a CC build in other mission types, and as an Overshield generator in all cases.

In other words, it is a powerful ability as it stands. The problem is that in order to use it, you must sacrifice your other abilities. Anything less than 60% efficiency or with negative duration disallows much use of Speed and Electric Shield, as you will be forced to cast them more often, and they will not last very long. Builds which use a high amount of range will also affect Speed. Shock is always going to be build agnostic, however.

 

3 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

so a delay before the enemies can die would be beneficial?

This feels particularly awful for other players, and it slows spawn rates. A much better solution is an explosion upon death, similar to Trinity's Energy Vampire.

 

6 minutes ago, Kedai said:

Gotcha, though I don't necessarily think his damage is lacking, I've definitely noticed an increase but like I said, considering the crowd control capabilities of it I don't think it should be on a level with Saryn, who has a slightly similar method of delivering that damage via staggered increments that can be increased by her other powers. In my first post my issue was with how often the coils went off and it's base radius, I'd like faster damage ticks even if it was a lowered amount. As it stands, I find others killing my affected *shudder* Discharges... before any real damage can be ramped up.  More often then not the paralyzed enemies themselves get blown up before the coils can start to affect others coming in range.

This is also an issue. Especially when trying to utilize Capacitance. My possible solution is above in this post, as I cannot seem to format in chronological order today.

[Cytobel]

1 hour ago, Serien5 said:

I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group. 

I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.

Really really fun to play; even more so than before.

I'm also wondering how your build is set up.  Like some of the others I wonder how much of your damage came from your weapons, what levels your foes were, et cetera.

I'm not looking to be confrontation here either.  1/4th of my playtime in game is Volt, and I've played for 4 years, so I KNOW there are problems with this rework, but I'd like to see with a fresh set of eyes.

I have a duration/efficiency/range build for Volt Prime AND I'm sporting an Arcane Pulse Helmet for 15% more duration.  I think I'm on the right track, but I'll know for sure when I get off work to test further.

[Hemmo67]

the thing is the volt's ulti sucks against few enemies but becomes incredibly strong against huge groups because the dmg pops from all affected ones to all nerby ones which makes the 450dmg happen incredibly fast and increcibly often with large groups

 

for smaller ones i suggest u just hammer them or use 1st to deal the "massive" dmg on finish them off

[Lijka]

1 hour ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Moving the opt-in/out option to an "accept aid" or "accept speed buff" option within the game settings. This will make the process much smoother for those who don't like Volt's speed (after all, you might accidentally run into volt's coil if he drops it when hes in front of you), and removes the problems associated with the "focus-like" Speed rework for those of us that prefer the speed, as it is counterproductive to run backwards to get a coil, when you are much better off just continuing toward the goal. The current system also completely negates the use of short-burst speed builds which forces players to run long-duration builds if they want efficient use of the speed ability for co-op. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only viable option which solves both parties.

Yes, I already agreed that the execution of the idea is not the best one and should be re-made :) For the moment, I prefer it the way it is now, than to what it was before, however I dislike Volt in general so I am biased. I understand how this is annoying for Volt players and I am all for changing it to something more reasonable. However doing it via settings is even worse than this because there are situations when you might want to accept Volt speed and turning it off in settings completely would prevent that completely.

[Spot.]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Did...did they actually nerf speed for no reason? Rly DE?

It's teamplay interaction has changed and it now speeds up reload time...so no.

[Aquasurge]

just tweeted Scott about the mod scaling for volt.

https://twitter.com/aquasurge01

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge

[DoctorWild]

I think that there is a bug with the consume of energy per meter with his shield, the counter increases with range and duration, while it should decrease.

[RahuHordika]

Well there are several walls of text that have in depth reviews an opinion, I guess some of my thoughts have been out there already so I'll just drop a few reminders on some quick opinions I have.

-Shock needs some adjustent, for what it gives it's not as an effective spamming tool as several make it out to be with a very very short stun, it won't take long to run out and seeing how it's vital for buffs to his other abilities... well I say either make it do something more than it already does, alter it's stats or make them modable, anything to make each individual cast be worth a bit more.

-Speed needs and opt-out option rather than making it a drop (which should be handled by a promt, same for Limbo's Banish), especially one dropped by where volt is, as it is incredibly inconvenient for teams in continuous movement.

-Energy cost for the riot shield is annoying but limiting the shields to 4 placed in total is completely unnecesary, the shields were in no way OP and Volt was a fun, yet still relatively inferior, alternative to Frost for defensive means.

-Discharge should be castable on air, it really doesn't make sense why it can't since essentially the effect is the same as Overload (electricity wave expansion) and besides it's very, VERY easy for tileset composition to mess up with the casting by having little tilts in terrain being considered as 'being in the air'.

Edited May 28, 2016 by RahuHordika

[Aquasurge]

5 minutes ago, RahuHordika said:

Well there are several walls of text that have in depth reviews an opinion, I guess some of my thoughts have been out there already so I'll just drop a few reminders on some quick opinions I have.

-Shock needs some adjustent, for what it gives it's as an effective spamming tool as several make it out to be with a very very short stun, it won't take long to run out and seeing how it's vital for buffs to his other abilities... well I say either make it do something more than it already does, alter it's stats or make them modable, anything to make each individual cast be worth a bit more.

-Speed needs and opt-out option rather than making it a drop (which should be handled by a promt, same for Limbo's Banish), especially one dropped by where volt is, as it is incredibly inconvenient for teams in continuous movement.

-Energy cost for the riot shield is annoying but limiting the shields to 4 placed in total is completely unnecesary, the shields were in no way OP and Volt was a fun, yet still relatively inferior, alternative to Frost for defensive means.

Discharge should be castable on air, it really doesn't make sense why it can't since essentially the effect is the same as Overload (electricity wave expansion) and besides it's very, VERY easy for tileset composition to mess up with the casting by having little tilts in terrain being considered as 'being in the air'.

this is the basis from which volt's mechanics should be changed

i'd suggest storm wave expansion  instead of along the ground.

[xyniu]

Volt does not seem to be nerfed as much as Trinity and Mag are.

Here is my opinion mainly about electric shield. Because right now this ability does not reward player much.

- Please remove 4 shield LIMIT and bring back the ability to cast INFINITE number of shields.

- Please remove the movement penalty when carrying picked up shield.

- Also consider lowering or removing energy drain.

[Der_Expressionist]

I like the rework overall.

Just make "shock procs" more effective against armor and increase the damage of discharge and shock. 

oh, and please fix the electric shield. Half of the shield is in the ground, when I cast it. 

[ddips]

I like the rework, except for how much energy is drained when u pick up his electric shield

[-CM-Emptiness]

17 minutes ago, Lijka said:

Yes, I already agreed that the execution of the idea is not the best one and should be re-made :) For the moment, I prefer it the way it is now, than to what it was before, however I dislike Volt in general so I am biased. I understand how this is annoying for Volt players and I am all for changing it to something more reasonable. However doing it via settings is even worse than this because there are situations when you might want to accept Volt speed and turning it off in settings completely would prevent that completely.

Would you care to provide some examples of these situations? As in situations within the same mission where you would require and not require speed buff.

If so, then an opt-out mechanic like limbo might work better, I am just curious as to what specific situations Volt's speed might be detrimental to gameplay.

Also did some testing, seems like the numbers do add up, much more so with close groups, so is pretty effective against infested. However damage seems to fall off quite quickly at around 10-15m, don't know if range mods affect this in any way but if not, might require some tweaking there.

All in all, it is an interesting mechanic with regards to cc. For damage, I would say scaling the rate of damage falloff with range mods, or decreasing it slightly would surely increase the application of the ability, since as of current, the only viable use in gameplay would be against packs of infested at really close range due to their rushing tendencies. Tweaking this will make Volt more of a versatile frame instead of being limited to defensive type gameplay.

[boo425]

Discharge has a 20m radius which seems okay on paper, but when I tried a corpus defense mission today it seemed to be as if it were using the 4m radius instead, I literally had to run up to a mob in order for it to take effect and even then it barely lasted with a mag nearby. It seems overload was better than something it turns out.

[Aquasurge]

1 minute ago, boo425 said:

Discharge has a 20m radius which seems okay on paper, but when I tried a corpus defense mission today it seemed to be as if it were using the 4m radius instead, I literally had to run up to a mob in order for it to take effect and even then it barely lasted with a mag nearby. It seems overload was better than something it turns out.

that's because the coil chain radius needs to be buffed badly