Valkyr Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Prince90000]

Nullifier Bubble / Eximus Leech = Instant Death. Please roll back Valkyr.

[Drufo]

I actually like the changes, Valkyr was one of those frames that trivialized everything exept nullifiers. Still I'd like to make a suggestion... what if, as energy drain rises, damage and/or range increases? That way there would be an incentive to stay in Hysteria more time

Edited May 28, 2016 by Drufo

[Alex9-3-9]

2 minutes ago, phantasmalWordsmith said:

Ran my Valkyr though some simulacrum, as far as the duration of her Hysteria goes, not a big issue - I got about 5mins. More than enough. 

The issue I am seeing is the range of her aura - in Survival with the constant influx of enemies, this might be a bit of a iffy area. Can probably deal with it by using the ripline to go UP to get away from a crowd and turn it off. Energy Leech Eximus and Nullifiers are a death sentence if you've had a massive number racked up. Otherwise not too big of a deal for Valkyr. 

Go up and away you say? How about go up and into a respawn area because in 80% of the tiles if you go too high you will be teleported back somewhere else and you will be out of 4rth in the middle of an enemy group. This ability change  needs to either go away or get a serious overhaul.

[Tsunero]

11 minutes ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

I'm quite happy with this change personally. Here's why.

 

1.) Permanent invincibility - This creates a meta within the game and an imbalance.

• In this past, Hysteria has been used in tactical alerts, events and sorties as a way to breeze through the harder game types with close to no repercussions. Rathuum is more than likely the #1 reason why this had to be changed. People were going into the endless rathuum for their clan's trophies with nothing but a high duration-efficiency build and staying immortal while killing everything in sight, getting their gold trophies in one run. I did this myself and I feel guilty for it. I knew there was a balance issue when I was up to level 250+ enemies and I hadn't run out of energy yet when I had just spent an hour in the arena.

2.) Versatility - Only learning to use one frame and not the rest.

• A new player asks what the best warframe in the game is or what frame they should keep, more often than not, it was Valkyr. This poses an issue. The new player  learns that this frame is utterly invincible and dishes out damage to back it up with very little weakness. Valkyr isn't hard to obtain either. This enforces the Meta that Warframe is trying to avoid. New players don't learn how to use other frames therefore, they don't use them simply because one warframe can tank, dish out damage and survive all the way to wave 200 whatever in a void defense and still keep on killing (that is to say you have others protecting the pod.). This is a problem, veterans usually running into people who only have and know how to use valkyr and nothing but in the recruiting chat.

3.) Set it and forget it - Players didn't have to think.

• The only strategy players had to carry out with valkyr: press four, run around and kill. You would pick up energy right away and you'd only have a one track mind. The way Hysteria works now makes you look at your energy bar, look for orbs and look for escape routes to cool down as well as kill enemies. You have to keep track of your warframe now, set it and forget it doesn't exist anymore and people are upset about it because they have to focus on other things other than their target. Unfortunately for these people, this change had to happen.

Nullifiers were created to pose a threat and make players think twice. They add a challenge and balance between players and an enemy. It isn't DE's fault if you don't know how to get around them. They are an annoyance, yes, However they bring balance to the game and there are ways to get around them. 

After all, a hero without a weakness? We aren't gods.

1. What if I told you can still be permanently invincible. The change just annoys veteran Valkyr users like me.

2. New players will keep only playing Valkyr or MIGHT go to the next "OP" thing.

3. You don't have to think with most of the frames still.

Nullifiers are just anti-fun. Sure I know how to get rid of them fast but I still hate them and don't find them challenging or balancing.

So yeah, I can pretty much do what I could do previously it's just a bit trickier to pull off, lame nerf patches won't break a true Valkyr player.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Momo93

[Alex9-3-9]

1 minute ago, Momo93 said:

1. What if I told you can still be permanently invincible. The change just annoys veteran Valkyr users like me.

2. New players will keep only playing Valkyr or MIGHT go to the next "OP" thing.

3. You don't have to think with most of the frames still.

Nullifiers are just anti-fun. Sure I know how to get rid of them fast but I still hate them and don't find them challenging or balancing.

So yeah, I can pretty much do what I could do previously it's just a bit trickier to pull off, lame nerf patched won't break a true Valkyr player.

As many people have already said:

Nullifier/energy leech=insta self-kill

They must revert this change or overhaul it. Hopefully soon before the forums get filled with mountains of salt.

[KrazyKubrowLady]

6 minutes ago, Momo93 said:

1. What if I told you can still be permanently invincible. The change just annoys veteran Valkyr users like me.

2. New players will keep only playing Valkyr or MIGHT go to the next "OP" thing.

3. You don't have to think with most of the frames still.

Nullifiers are just anti-fun. Sure I know how to get rid of them fast but I still hate them and don't find them challenging or balancing.

So yeah, I can pretty much do what I could do previously it's just a bit trickier to pull off, lame nerf patched won't break a true Valkyr player.

 

 

 

1. hey. gotta have that cost factor.

2. only if you have an appropriate build on her

3. I beg to differ. this argument would have held with rhino but his Ironskin scales with damage taken in a short amount of time which pretty much makes or breaks depending on if you're smart enough to jump into a hella large group of enemies.

They're meant to be anti-fun. 

 

Watch valkyr be nerfed further to only damage reduction in the future Do it DE. pls

 

My point is, she's becoming for of an advanced frame to use. if one doesn't have the mods equipped, one wouldn't have the ability to experience the holy crap of meta.

Edited May 28, 2016 by KrazyKubrowLady

[Tsunero]

5 minutes ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

1. hey. gotta have that cost factor.

2. only if you have an appropriate build on her

3. I beg to differ. this argument would have held with rhino but his Ironskin scales with damage taken in a short amount of time.

They're meant to be anti-fun. 

 

Watch valkyr be nerfed further to only damage reduction in the future Do it DE. pls

I could stomach more nerfs if they appropriately buff her other abilities, meaning they are not beyond useless. I don't even have to change my current build because it wasn't purely Hysteria focused in the first place. That's why I said it's just an annoying nerf to me, not the end of the world. New players  on the other hand are...pretty fk'd.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Momo93

[Alex9-3-9]

1 minute ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

Watch valkyr be nerfed further to only damage reduction in the future 

That is the day when Warframe will fall and the game will be nothing more than a dry and desolate desert. Something similar happened to a fp2 game I played a lot and the game has gotten more than 70% negative reviews since it's update a couple of months back and most if not all of the "Veteran" players (including me) have quit. I really doubt that warframe will fall that far. Also if you are one of those people who are like ERMAGHERD 2 OP PLS NERF, go somewhere else, this is a PvE game and we are supposed to be OP Space Ninjas after all.

[KrazyKubrowLady]

Just now, Momo93 said:

I could stomach more nerfs if they appropriately buff her other abilities, meaning they are not beyond useless. I don't even have to change my current build because it wasn't purely Hysteria focused in the first place. That's why I said it's just an annoying nerf to me, not the end of the world. New players are on the other hand...pretty fk'd.

 

So why are you on this thread if the hysteria nerf wasn't part of your build? 

I agree though that her other abilities need a buff or rework in place of this change, however. That we can agree on, however, they are melee based and feeds into hysteria. I wish they fed into something else other than that and/or her defenses were higher so one doesn't have to rely on that one ability.

 

Personally, I think Valkyr needs a whole other rework. different abilities that feed into her defenses and a nuke to her first ability and replaced with a different more useful ability.

 

If that can happen and all of her abilities marry up into one good thing, I wouldn't have a problem with meta players being the only ones who use valkyr 90% of the time.

[KrazyKubrowLady]

4 minutes ago, Terrorist939 said:

That is the day when Warframe will fall and the game will be nothing more than a dry and desolate desert. Something similar happened to a fp2 game I played a lot and the game has gotten more than 70% negative reviews since it's update a couple of months back and most if not all of the "Veteran" players (including me) have quit. I really doubt that warframe will fall that far. Also if you are one of those people who are like ERMAGHERD 2 OP PLS NERF, go somewhere else, this is a PvE game and we are supposed to be OP Space Ninjas after all.

 

I'm not one of those people, as much as it looks like I am.

 

I believe in balance in a game. I'm happy with this nerf because with invincibility comes price. If hysteria would be damage reduction and her defences increased, I have no doubt she'd dish out some hefty damage as a result.

 

Invincibility has to be balanced out in some way. sorry if I don't believe in the same things you do. I'm into harder to use frames like a 3 ability (non 4) Ember, Ivara, Mag and so on. a one ability frame does not interest me and brings meta to a game, making it way too easy to pass rathuum gold trophy for a mountain clan. Face it. Valkyr is and was broken.

[Tsunero]

1 minute ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

So why are you on this thread if the hysteria nerf wasn't part of your build? 

I agree though that her other abilities need a buff or rework in place of this change, however. That we can agree on, however, they are melee based and feeds into hysteria. I wish they fed into something else other than that and/or her defenses were higher so one doesn't have to rely on that one ability.

 

Personally, I think Valkyr needs a whole other rework. different abilities that feed into her defenses and a nuke to her first ability and replaced with a different more useful ability.

 

If that can happen and all of her abilities marry up into one good thing, I wouldn't have a problem with meta players being the only ones who use valkyr 90% of the time.

Because it's simply too much of a nerf. The energy drain needs to be toned down and the suicide bubble should be affected by range mods. Then it will be fine.

Her first ability is pretty okayish at the moment but should be more cheaper. Her second needs to be at least 30 seconds by default and give more armor, or change the armor buff to something else which compliments the speed buff well. Her third is okayish but could use more range and shouldn't depend on shields but on health (NO idea how they came up with this honestly..."hey this frame only has 150 shields, let's make one of her abilities dependent on it!!").

[Michelozzo]

I just don't like nerfs in games in general, because they do nothing but make people bitter and build resentment. I can understand why they did it, but they could have done it with a bit more give and take situation instead of straight up making the ability worse. Particularly with the rest of her kit needing some work.

[KrazyKubrowLady]

1 minute ago, Momo93 said:

Because it's simply too much of a nerf. The energy drain needs to be toned down and the suicide bubble should be affected by range mods. Then it will be fine.

Her first ability is pretty okayish at the moment but should be more cheaper. Her second needs to be at least 30 seconds by default and give more armor, or change the armor buff to something else which compliments the speed buff well. Her third is okayish but could use more range and shouldn't depend on shields but on health (NO idea how they came up with this honestly..."hey this frame only has 150 shields, let's make one of her abilities dependent on it!!").

 

If you look back into the posts, there's a video of someone surviving 4-5 minutes just standing there on full energy. pretty sure it wasn't a knife jab. just a pin prick.

[B0N3M4N]

31 minutes ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

Nullifiers were created to pose a threat and make players think twice. They add a challenge and balance between players and an enemy. It isn't DE's fault if you don't know how to get around them. They are an annoyance, yes, However they bring balance to the game and there are ways to get around them. 

After all, a hero without a weakness? We aren't gods.

Talking about gods :

Spoiler

And I mean these are Lv. 34 threats, from my experience on Warframe on these 3 years of development I've never EVER seen something enough cheap to be compared to nullifiers, except for Bursas and Aimbot Missles/Snipes maybe.

This also makes semi-auto weapon even less used compared to the normal usage when someone get into the void, because yes, an arrow of your 5 Forma Slash Dread of doom does the same damage of an unmodded MK-1 Braton bullet to that bubble.

Now I do understand, you may want to say "just slide in and kill him", but oh boy, I had to revive SO MANY of the same guys that have said that, because they get in and puf, 4 missles, a shotgun and a heavy with a sniper are shooting on your face, congratulations you're dead.

This is pratically like walking with a no-fun bunker around, plus what makes different Warframe from other FPSs are their powers, so why can't we use them?

This isn't only about punishing ability abuse, this is also punishing every people that wants a different playstyle from the one that you are FORCED to use for one only enemy, otherwise you don't have any chances against him.

Also if DE would really like to balance abilities out then they should get to the font of it, which is energy efficency and cheap methods of being always full, like EV Trinity or spamming pads on your feet.

This was just a little opinion about how I feel with the general PvE balance of Warframe, starting from something like Nullifiers which are top anti-fun priority to look at, at least for me. Not gonna talk about it again on this thread, mainly because it's about Valkyr feedback, not enemies.

[Tsunero]

13 minutes ago, KrazyKubrowLady said:

If you look back into the posts, there's a video of someone surviving 4-5 minutes just standing there on full energy. pretty sure it wasn't a knife jab. just a pin prick.

His build is a jack of all trades one. That surely gimps Hysteria dmg a lot. (Well, mine is not maxed on power strenght either but packs a punch.

This is what I use.

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/uhazIgH.jpg?1

It's for mixed gameplay with 50% running and gunning and the rest is using all of her abilities. A selfish build if you will because it's not very dependent on teammates. It never let me down so far. Everyone has their prefences though. I might change it up a bit if an augment I happen to like ever comes out.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Momo93

[DuskLegendary]

Guys, I just did a test run. I went 60 minutes in a T3 solo just now. Valkyr does require slightly different play style than what she used to require, but now she actually plays a lot like Chroma.

Edited May 28, 2016 by DuskLegendary

[DuskLegendary]

Proof of me going 60 minutes in T3 solo after this new nerf update

My current Valkyr setup that I used to achieve 60 minutes

My weapon that I used with this Valkyr setup

[Valkyrion]

11 minutes ago, DuskLegendary said:

Proof of me going 60 minutes in T3 solo after this new nerf update

My current Valkyr setup that I used to achieve 60 minutes

My weapon that I used with this Valkyr setup

Try doing it next time on a corpus mission... even when you don't know... you'll be dead because of scrambus.

[DuskLegendary]

Just now, Valkyrion said:

Try doing it next time on a corpus mission... even when you don't know... you'll be dead because of scrambus.

I believe it, I don't think I want to try this on a Corpus mission. As it was, making it to a full hour required me to do some hit and run tactics, a lot of running away to deactivate and reactivate my Hysteria. And lets not even get into watching out for the Life Support while trying to manage Hysteria, that wasn't fun at all. Now, our old gal is still end game viable as I've show, but does it require a lot more work and careful play? Yep. Will I be doing this again? Nope. I'll be using Chroma for solo stuff from now on.

[Kevrex97]

Ehh tested it not that long ago. It can last a decent amount of time and i dont have to put on flow so im happy

 

[Gulftown]

1 hour ago, Prince90000 said:

Nullifier Bubble / Eximus Leech = Instant Death. Please roll back Valkyr.

Welcome to the age of mortals. Every frame dies pretty fast inside the Nullifier bubbles. Full damage immunity for Valkyr was the worst possible game development.

 

1 hour ago, Momo93 said:

The change just annoys veteran Valkyr users like me.

Valkyr's skill cap was undeniably the lowest in the game. Advertising yourself as a Valkyr veteran pretty much eats the ground beneath your arguments. The frame was brought back closer to the other ones. It still possesses an immunity no other frame does. 

[Tsunero]

1 minute ago, Siideriu said:

Welcome to the age of mortals. Every frame dies pretty fast inside the Nullifier bubbles. Full damage immunity for Valkyr was the worst possible game development.

 

Valkyr's skill cap was undeniably the lowest in the game. Advertising yourself as a Valkyr veteran pretty much eats the ground beneath your arguments. The frame was brought back closer to the other ones. It still possesses an immunity no other frame does. 

I have hundreds of hours in her if you don't believe me then that's your problem. The other frames should have been brought up not Valkyr down. Still, you people will continue to call her OP anyway.

[taiiat]

are you guys sure you actually pushed the constantly increasing Energy Drain?

i've been in Hysteria here, for atleast 5 minutes now, filling up Energy, waiting for it to increase. it's still going down by somewhere in the area of 1/s, just like when i initially casted it.
confused?

oh - i removed most of my Efficiency and now i see it. interesting.

 

hey! the taking Damage detriment aspect of the Ability actually works correctly now, instead of basically needing to build up like 1,000,000 Damage to be able to take anything noticable.

 

Warcry no longer does anything to yourself. oops.

[XtDK]

9 minutes ago, Siideriu said:

Welcome to the age of mortals. Every frame dies pretty fast inside the Nullifier bubbles. Full damage immunity for Valkyr was the worst possible game development.

 

Valkyr's skill cap was undeniably the lowest in the game. Advertising yourself as a Valkyr veteran pretty much eats the ground beneath your arguments. The frame was brought back closer to the other ones. It still possesses an immunity no other frame does. 

This is stupid.  First, there are a handful of tanky frames that can manage to brush against nullifier bubbles without worry. Even if your toggles fade for a brief moment you can often get out. And then, just about every frame has a way to pop them reliably from range.  Valkyr is the only frame that instantly dies when they run out of energy or touch a bubble. That's gamebreaking for her.

As for her skillcap, Valkyr's cap is fairly high.   Popping nullifier bubbles (multiple bubbles) with melee is a necessary skill. Using her single target damage and ability to revive consistently, as well, were invaluable.  And it's worth saying that the advent of bloodrush + bodycount means that her hysteria damage isn't actually as high anymore.

And as for immunities... I don't know.  Maybe Ash's consistent invulnerability due to blade storm, Chroma's tankiness, Wukong's defy, and Trinity's 99% damage reduction all effectively avoid death and leave the frames with an openness that Valkyr does not have.

Edited May 28, 2016 by XtDK

[iKhon]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

Warcry no longer does anything to yourself. oops.

The energy drain cap pretty much doubles your initial energy drain, just about.

And this issue has been seen by DE and they are trying to fix it I think, assuming the post on the warframe subreddit is correct.