Excalibur Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Ryuketsu.]

On 5/28/2016 at 0:02 AM, Sealgaire said:

I thought the community consensus was that Excalibur was in a good place and was a mark to shoot for in terms of fun, usefulness and player engagement when balancing other frames, but I guess I've been gone for a while and that may have changed. Anyway, this opinion seems almost universal, but I'll state it anyway. Range nerf to EB is okay and makes sense, energy cost to mini blind is unnecessary and crippling. Forcing Excalibur to get closer to high level enemies while at the same time effectively removing the only tool he had to stay alive against them makes him pretty much unusable in high level content.

Excalibur's been my boy since choosing him as my starting frame in early closed beta, and when he got EB I was overjoyed because I could play him effectively while having a blast without having to resort to boring gimmicks. Was planning on coming back to game for U19. Not sure I will if I can't use Excalibur in high level content anymore.

I will miss my Excalibur prime.

[.Tabris]

Why don't DE ask us BEFORE they change such things ?! Then we get these lengthily feedback .... The reason here is broken ...

Anyways, slide now costs energy ... not right, specially considering (as pointed out already) we have to get closer, due to the waves fall off. That mini Blind was lame to begin with. I wouldn't miss it if taken out, if a nerf is what they want.

As for the E.Blade itself ... the damage fall off is to demanding.

I did some testing: EB x Nikana Prime (Blood Rush, Body Count, Surging Slash augment) on a Solo T3 Survival Run. Needless to say the current EB pales in comparison with the Melee combo (Surging Dash makes it even better!). And costs less energy.

If I had any saying, begone with this mini Blind, tying it with the slide and forcing energy cost is nonsensical to say the least. As for the Waves, why not make it a Channeling buff: every channeling swing emits a blade, costing the regular channel energy, this way you also have to calculate when to channel and still have to get close to use the regular blade (making Blood Rush and Body Count viable, since the waves cut the Combo counter)

TL;DR

Begone with the mini Blind + Waves as Channeled swings, giving us a type of  "strategic" feel when using then, and making Blood Rush and Body Count viable, since the waves cut the Combo counter. 

[Tsoe]

i am for the full remooval of energy waves on regular atck and the introductionof EB charge atck with shock waves

 

[ReshyShira]

On 5/28/2016 at 0:07 AM, RiouHotaru said:

The damage fallout was necessary, since, like Rebecca said, it turned Excal into a turret rather than a swordsman, especially since EB was viable well into end-endgame with the right mods.  Utterly ridiculous in terms of raw killing power.

The mini-blind costing energy does make sense though.  It was a free blind, and even if you couldn't do finishers you still got the stealth-hidden melee multiplier.  Which was stupid strong on top of EB's already ridiculous damage.

Also lmao, if enemies are dropping you that fast when you're closing to melee range, then you're at a point where you shouldn't be trying to close at all, basically end-endgame.

If they don't want us relying on Excal as a turret they should make it so that he's more durable than folded crate paper.  I'd love to get close, except that excal dies instantly to anything.

[mayhemzen]

there are only a few frames with abilities good for actually killing enemies.  yet there are always calls that they are to OP, and need nerfing.  i can kinda get the "sayryn is just press 4 to win" complaint, and even though excalibur is more interactive with his ult i can understand the E-spam complaint.  but let me ask you this: are any frames allowed to actually be good at killing enemies without our developers bowing to the incessant whining of the  scruffy nerf herders? 

what is the difference between bullet spam and ability spam?  why is it fine for vauban to spam control, but ember actually being able to kill an enemy with her ult so offensive.  why are there so many people who want extra energy drain on excal or valkyr to tone down their usage?   do you not play high level missions where you regularly get knocked out of ult mode by corpus bubbles, or energy drained so constantly that any ability usage is impossible?   who cares if high level characters can run through low level content spamming their ult?  they can't do it where it matters.  what is the difference between the oh so terrible press 4 to win, versus spam simulor, soma, or scindo to win?  you gotta spam something!  what would happen if there were more enemies who drained ammo, locked or stole weapons, than energy?

for some reason our developers have it in their heads that EB completely outshines the rest of Excaliburs kit, which is nonsense.  while energy blade is way better at killing enemies than slash dash (as a 4 that's not unreasonable)  it doesn't move you around the map, so really it doesn't compare. slash dash, radial blind, and exalted blade are the main parts of his kit and they interact wonderfully.

slash dash is a fun mobility skill and the reason i picked excalibur over 3000hrs ago, and even though its changed here and there, it is still loads of fun. whether your dashing in and out of combat, racing loki to the finish-line, or just spamming it midair for fun itself.  it has a multi-target knockdown great for setting up melee kills with any weapon, EB or not.

RB is an AoE damage-less control ability, that temporarily stops enemy activity and sets up bonus damage finishers for the whole team.  in high level play it is far more important, powerful, and necessary than EB.  exalted blade is a waste of energy at high level play, even before before this recent adjustment.

RJ is an AoE damage ability with a stun.  it is the only skill excalibur has that can even be compared to EB in over all function, which is damaging and killing lots of enemies.  it is clearly not as good as RB nor should it be.  it is the weakest skill of his kit though, once you move to high level content where it is basically an expensive but weaker version of RB, which does not seem right.  i'm not saying this skill needs a buff, or to be replaced with something else.  just sit down and think about it for now, as this ability is the weak link in his skill set.  that's not necessarily wrong or even in need of fixing.  in every game there are some characters who are weaker options, and in every character there is a skill that ain't the greatest.  so what?  deal with it, there is no changing this in the long run. and while i would like to see this skill changed in some way( i have many ideas, just like the rest of the players), i'm very happy excalibur has 3 great skill that work so well together.

EB is supposed to be a powerful tool of destruction, and should remain so, especially with so few warframes that excel at dealing damage.  there are those who complain about excal "turreting".   when you are defending a cryopod against bombards who can one shot you what choice do you have but to stay inside the snow globe and E-spam for all you are worth? when is this game more exiting, than when the whole team has to stick together and spam every thing they have just to survive?  i see people complaining in this thread about the limbo/excal gimmick and how that needs to be dealt with.  when did teamwork and combining skills smartly become a bad thing?  what is the difference between being in snowglobe and spamming your abilities and being in limbos rift?  limbos abilities are supportive and defensive in nature, he is not going to get mad kills with his abilities.  but if he does not use his abilities to support his team, neither will they.  there are always exploits and "cheeze", and people can talk all the trash they want, but that is not just a huge part of gaming, but of life itself.  when you find a tool or system that works well, you repeatedly use it to your advantage, ie. spam it.  don't let nerf herders sabotage the game when people use obvious and intelligent combos and abilities to accomplish the mission.  should we stop using electricity and hand drills to build houses?  on this thread peoples comments about the mini blind, and waves are ridiculous.  the mini blind is not useless or op.  it takes skill, practice and risk to use, and can save not just excalibur, but others on the team, while giving a nice damage boost necessary in high levels.  because it doesn't trigger unwanted stealth attacks it becomes a nice compliment to RB, not just a cheap knock off.  one that requires much more risk to pull off.  yes, i can chain them continuously down hallways and in the air because... practice.  no, it doesn't always work and i get killed because i should have used RB instead.  people here are actually calling for removal of the waves cast by EB, and while i don't think DE will take that serious, i have to think if you don't like them, play a different frame or game! what is wrong with excalibur having a ranged option built in to his ULTIMATE?  why am i only allowed to "turret" with excalibur when using the gorgon?  should we stop mirage from "turreting" in snow globe?  why do we allow those who complain about how others play their frames based on the abilities they have, to dominate the conversation? 

players are calling to make excalibur more of a "real" swordsman by buffing health, armor, and shields, and taking away the miniblind and waves.  instead of learning to skillfully use his kits abilities and their inherent risks, just give me higher stats so i can melee easier.  pitiful.  you had in EB a signature ability different from ALL the others, that set a new standard other than straight AoE damage(not that i am against straight AoE damage either).  something powerful, flexible, dynamic, and exiting.  a standard that shouldn't be nerfed down, but other frames should be brought up to.  keep the mini-blind(its not my fault if you don't understand it and just want more armor on excal(yes i still want more armor please)) and ditch the extra energy cost.  we all know the falloff on the waves should have been their from the start, its natural from a reality and anime standpoint.  the argument is just how much feels right, and with the constant tweaking of this game we can expect it to change again and again. but it should always be dangerous.  excalibur is the FLAGSHIP WARFRAME (not just a noobframe(there shouldn't be any noobframes)) and if he isn't dangerous what good is he?

one of the main reasons i play this game is the melee action. it's not that the gun play is bad, its that the melee is so damn sexy, i cant get enough.  i don't need incentive to get in close, i'm already there no matter what frame.  i hate doing sorties with no melee because i love the CQB and it is my preferred method of combat.  it just feels wrong as hell not to have a melee weapon on my space ninjas.  another reason i play is the ridiculous space magic.  if i want straight up hard-core gun battles i go play planetside 2.  i don't try to make this game planetside, and i dont try to make that game warframe.  and i play both a lot.  this game has futuristic anime inspired space magic and i play because i want to use it as much as possible.

insist on taking saryn on a Law of Retribution run, and see how quick you get dropped.  this shows you where the OP in this game is at, and its not in those few warframes that excel at damage, but in those who excel at  crowd control.  all the high level content in this game is about control.  even the weapon choices favor control at higher levels.  i realize that there is an enemy scaling issue that is being worked on, and this game is always adjusting something.  i'm fine with all that, and love being able to participate, even in a small level, in that progress.  but i don't get on these forums and complain because ember and saryn get all the kills on exterminate missions and i didn't get any cause there too OP press 4 to win. i gotta press some thing to win and if its 4 or the damn trigger don't matter. i don't come on here and complain because the mirage simulor cheeze stolze all ma killz:(  some frames are better at damage and that shouldn't be a bad thing. its not like you can't switch to a kill frame as needed.

all in all i feel this rework shows not that excalibur needed a rework, but how DE interacts with the community needs a rework.

[keen211]

 Since a lot of people have already talked at lenght about the most important points in this rework I'll refrain from writing a huge wall of text and just add my opinion to the pile:

 -EB rework is fair, goes in the right direction.

 -Slide radial blind change is pointless at best and complete garbage at worst.

[ThatOddDeer]

58 minutes ago, keen211 said:

 Since a lot of people have already talked at lenght about the most important points in this rework I'll refrain from writing a huge wall of text and just add my opinion to the pile:

 -EB rework is fair, goes in the right direction.

 -Slide radial blind change is pointless at best and complete garbage at worst.

And add shadowdebt mods

[keen211]

48 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

And add shadowdebt mods

^That^

[(PSN)Jennison99]

2 hours ago, keen211 said:

 Since a lot of people have already talked at lenght about the most important points in this rework I'll refrain from writing a huge wall of text and just add my opinion to the pile:

 -EB rework is fair, goes in the right direction.

 -Slide radial blind change is pointless at best and complete garbage at worst.

Don't forget interesting and useful combos on Exalted Blade! Maybe some mobility combos to deter being a turret when using Exalted Blade and actually go up close like a swordsman.

[Fate0]

I hope they don't use the nerf to EB energy waves as an excuse to create a mod that restores them to previous as a trade off. 

They need to make EB combos give bonus damage like normal stances do. Make some combos create waves every slash.  Restore the energy waves how they previously were at cost of channeling. Give him more defensive options and before someone say "he has radial blind", you shouldn't have to sacrifice energy to get in close to enemy if that is direction they are trying to push the frame into. He should be able to get close without radial blind, as i see radial blind as crowd control not a means to get in to do what they are forcing us to do. Also get rid of mini slide blind, while it was ok, i don't think it was so important that now is should cost energy replace it with a slide attack that emits a radial energy wave similar to ground slam with EB active.

While your at it and in the mood to "make his kit less overshadowed by EB" how about doing something worthwhile to Radial Javelin. Give it a bleed effect for enemies impaled or make the skanas explode after so many seconds if they are still alive. Or just get rid of the whole skana's impale enemies and make it create a radial shock wave since were sticking with the ethreal skana theme when concerning his abilities. 

[lZerul]

I honestly think the only nerf that should have gone in for Exalted Blade is having the damage of the waves reduce per enemy pierced.

Going into melee with EB really has no substantial benefit thanks to the lack of Blood Rush + Body Count and Exalted Blade's style has no multipliers on any of its moves.

Adding an Energy Cost to the mini-Radial Blind was also entirely unnecessary.

[(PSN)SupeBoss]

Body Count and Blood Rush should work with EB now - waves should not affect the combo counter.
I would like to see EB's physical length increased (or at least scale favorably with Primed Reach equipped)

Remove the spin-costing-energy. That is an absolutely horrible idea. Especially since EB is a channeled ability as it is

[.Tabris]

The problem with Shadowdebt mods are the waves themselves. If you hit with the actual sword the mods trigger, but if you hit with the waves, they reset the counter. So, in really close range, if you are hitting at least one enemy with the blade, the counter will go up.

[ThatOddDeer]

1 hour ago, .Zefir said:

The problem with Shadowdebt mods are the waves themselves. If you hit with the actual sword the mods trigger, but if you hit with the waves, they reset the counter. So, in really close range, if you are hitting at least one enemy with the blade, the counter will go up.

I don't get what you mean about waves resetting the counter, they don't but, otherwise I feel this could be solved by either further reducing the default damage of the waves, lets crapshoot 50% for right now, and then enable the shadowdebt mods. This means that if you want the waves to deal meaningful damage you have to charge them up via combo counter and sticking in melee as Excal is supposedly supposed to belong. Couple this with changes to actually make him survivable in melee, I like changing RJ into a shield of blades type skill, and you have a truly thematic swordsman frame that is survivable enough for melee with a ton of reasons to go into melee 

[Dragazer]

1 hour ago, .Zefir said:

The problem with Shadowdebt mods are the waves themselves. If you hit with the actual sword the mods trigger, but if you hit with the waves, they reset the counter. So, in really close range, if you are hitting at least one enemy with the blade, the counter will go up.

Waves don't reset the combo counter, they just don't increase it all, I don't think you know what you're talking about...

[Void_Vis_Vires]

8 hours ago, .Zefir said:

The problem with Shadowdebt mods are the waves themselves. If you hit with the actual sword the mods trigger, but if you hit with the waves, they reset the counter. So, in really close range, if you are hitting at least one enemy with the blade, the counter will go up.

That's competently incorrect. Everything is false outside of the fact that hitting with the actual sword is what makes the combo counter increase. However the shadow debt mods still do not apply regardless nor does hitting with that waves reset the counter.

[IIIEvandarIII]

I don't agree with either of the changes. Not the (spin attack / miniblind cost (1) nor the (dmg drop of (2). Also there are other things on Excal that need

changing in my Opinion (3)

 

(1) - the slide attack is primarily a slide attack and not a blind -> normal 250 slide 535 wich is a lot ! -> this cost ruins it !

     - the mini blind is not that powerful in the fist place especially if ur built for efficiency and p. strength (=> low dur. and range) so to get any use out of it u have to get real close and be quik 2

     - also it is way to easy to do this accedentaly !!! i use a quik slide all the time to be get around quiker, so the cost also ruins a part of the movement 2

 

(2) - THIIS WAS NOT NECCECARY !!! if u dont whant to be a energy wave "turret" dont be !!!"

      - like this u might as well go for a pure mele biuld with primed reach where u can have all the benefits of a normal mele Weapon (Blood Rush, Body count, combo counter, augments, red crits etc.)

      - Exalted blade was not op and the range of it was what made it uniqe compared to wukongs stick i mean staff  xD (primal fury) and valkyrs claws (hysteria)

      - the other 3 abbilities are not overshadowd by Exalted Blade they just take a little more effort to be effective and using Exalted blade is easy to understand and a cined of lazy ability WICH IS OK !!!

      - if have to get a dmg drop of, at least move it up to like 30m so u have 30m of full power and the it gets weaker the more it hits and the further it travels

 

(3) in sted of changing Exalted blade i think Slash dash should get an upgrade:

     - have the the Surging Dash augment make it so that the Combo Counter effects the dmg of Slash dash, making it a more viable choise for usability in endgame content

     - give it a crit chance (sinargise with naramon)

     - let mele speed mods effect it so for example with negative speed u could have more controle over the next target, or maybe even remove the automatic targeting of multiple targets and give the player control over what his next target will be (of course with a limit on how many targets u can hit with one cast)

     - maybe even let mele base dmg mods effect it

     - this does not concern slash dash, if ur using energy conversion and become invisible for example with  Exalted blade there is a weird effect with the energy conversion 

 

Over all i say EB was not brocken nor op or untrue to Excal. So dont fix it ! How ever Slash dash could use and upgrade like i menchond

 

ps; english is not my mother tongue so i apolagise for any mistakes i made

greetings from Switzerland =D

[321agemo]

Slide Radial blind needs to be changed.

Either:

1) remove the energy cost

2) give us an option to slide attack without triggering blind.

 

Both valk and wukong don't have involuntary skills that use up additional energy, and channeling skills already have limited ways to gain energy while active.

 

In regards to damage falloff, a couple of players have stated it seems to fall out extremely steeply and quickly. Some numbers would probably need to be tweaked.

Edited June 1, 2016 by 321agemo

[JalakBali]

Agree with a lot of the posts here: Slide Blind costing energy is BAD because it's become a newbie trap. It's not useful at all unless you specced for Radial Blind due to its tiny range. Most vets would just avoid using it now so it's just a useless ability. Either remove the energy cost or add another utility to it to justify the cost. My solutions would be either:

1) Make Slide Blind ignores terrain. So enemies behind enemies, within range, would still get hit. Meaning this is a better ability to use against a clump of enemies within short range while Radial Blind is better for bigger area coverage, or

2) Add an additional effect, like Knock Down, for instance. So you do a Slide Blind and other than being blinded, enemies are also open to ground finishers.

 

Now that the range of EB is nerfed, please add Body Count and Blood Rush and all the other acolyte mods to be available for EB. There's no point in excluding them now that EB is no longer "OP".

[Epsik-kun]

Spin Blind is insanely useful, I have no idea what are you people talking about. It's a separate x4 damage multiplier linked to one of the best attacks Excal has on EBlade. Using Spin Blind is mandatory if you want to go to high level content with Excal, because it essentially provides much higher DPS increase than the actual Radial Blind.

Another point is to people who don't know the purpose of Slash Dash. It may surprise you, but Radial Blind isn't Excal's panic button. Slash Dash is. When you are surrounded by enemies that can actually kill you, casting Radial Blind won't save you from attacks that had already started. Slash Dash, however will. Radial Blind is tactical CC.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[SamuraiPizza]

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Spin Blind is insanely useful, I have no idea what are you people talking about. It's a separate x4 damage multiplier linked to one of the best attacks Excal has on EBlade. Using Spin Blind is mandatory if you want to go to high level content with Excal, because it essentially provides much higher DPS increase than the actual Radial Blind.

Imagine a group of 8 or so enemies close together. This is a fairly common occurrence. I spin attack them, and they all die because the spin attack is very very powerful. And AFTER they die, Excal does a blind. Erm....whom am I blinding again? Anyone outside of that group or 8-10 enemies does not get hit with the blind. I mean sometimes they do but it is not really reliable. And I lose energy. If I want to blind said enemies BEFORE I attack them, I'll just press 2. 

 

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Another point is to people who don't know the purpose of Slash Dash. It may surprise you, but Radial Blind isn't Excal's panic button. Slash Dash is. When you are surrounded by enemies that can actually kill you, casting Radial Blind won't save you from attacks that had already started. Slash Dash, however will. Radial Blind is tactical CC.

 Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slashdash WAS his panic button prior to the rework because he slasdashed THROUGH enemies and not TO them. Now, Slashdash dashes you TO an enemy, and spamming it bounces you between enemies so when you come OUT of slashdash you're actually being put in harms way. 

 

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers, man.

[horcruxpotter]

My Feedback:

I personally don't have an issue with the changes that the Energy Waves suffered. It's not that I wanted this changes, but I don't mind, and that's just because I already play melee with Excalibur, either with an external weapon (Nikana Prime, Broken War, Dex Dakra, etc) or with Exalted Blade. I understand why this was made, however, because it was thematically incorrect with the swordman character, but I personally don't wish the waves are removed. They look so freaking great, and remind me of Fate / Stay Night: UBW, when Saber uses her "Excalibur". If this needed to be done so Excalibur doesn't lose his waves, then so be it.

Here, I will list some aspects about Excalibur that might need improvements. 

• Spin Attacks (Exalted Blade): The energy cost from the spin attack needs to be removed. I'm not affected by this, since I already spend energy on Slash Dash while engaging, but not everyone likes to run full efficiency builds like I do, and a lot of people seem to engage with the spin, instead of slash dash, so it's really detrimental to them, not to mention that it makes no sense. The mini Radial Blind also allows people that initiates combat with the spin attack to deal more damage, and it is clearly meant for close melee approaches, so people shouldn't suffer from this.
• Energy Waves from Exalted Blade: Instead of making the waves suffer from a huge damage fall off, I think it would be best to shorten the distance that those waves can travel. I think they should dissipate when they reach 15 meters, but keep their damage along the way, as well as punch through.
• Melee Mod Compatibility with Exalted Blade (Body Count + Blood Rush): I can understand why these mods shouldn't work before, but now, I believe they should. Since Excalibur can deal 2 instances of damage when you play close range Exalted Blade (one that comes from the blade itself, and the other one that comes from the energy wave), I think Body Count and Blood Rush should only work with the strikes that come from the blade, but NOT with the waves. That will motivate players to get in close and personal, and finally use Excalibur as intended. The augment mod for Slash Dash is really awesome, and it already works with Exalted Blade, so adding these 2 mods would make perfect sense, and will reward players for taking the risk of getting into the enemy's face.
• Slash Dash (With or Without Exalted Blade): This ability is almost perfect for Excalibur, except for one thing: There's a little bug when targeting enemies. Sometimes Excalibur won't zig zag between them, even when they are in the effective cone of range. I know this is more like a bug, but I still believe this is the best opportunity to point it out. Aside from that, Slash Dash is perfect! It allows you to initiate combat, it will zig zag (sometimes, due to being a bit buggy) between enemies in a cone, it will knock them down and open them to ground finishers, it makes your health invulnerable while dashing, which allows us to safely engage targets (not totally safe, since you still take shield damage, and after the slash sequence ends, you will be vulnerable again), and its damage scales with damage melee mods and combo counter. I'm really happy about this ability! Just a small bug fix and we are good to go.
• Radial Blind: Perfect, nothing needs to be done here. Awesome duration and range, and can be use for finishers or for mass crowd control if you build Excalibur as a support Warframe (Overextended + Stretch). Just perfect.
• Radial Javelin: With all due respect, this ability really needs to go. This ability doesn't synergize with the rest of his skill set, and it deals really low damage that scales poorly for high level content. It stops Excalibur in place, leaving him vulnerable, and the number of spears are limited. The crowd control provided is also very poor in comparison with Radial Blind, so there's no point. This ability is only used for Draco Farming, and it's really boring and needs from other Warframes to buff its damage. Excalibur could use some buff ability instead of this one. Not a speed buff, because Valkyr already has that, but it could be a damage buff for a certain duration that affects his melee weapons (including Exalted Blade), or maybe a damage reduction buff, so he can be safer when playing melee.

Sorry for posting this a bit late, but I wanted to test Excalibur first againts lvl 100+ enemies in survival void missions and sorties before I could forge a solid opinion about his current state. 

Thanks for everything, and keep the good work! 

Edited June 2, 2016 by horcruxpotter

[horcruxpotter]

6 hours ago, Legion216 said:

Imagine a group of 8 or so enemies close together. This is a fairly common occurrence. I spin attack them, and they all die because the spin attack is very very powerful. And AFTER they die, Excal does a blind. Erm....whom am I blinding again? Anyone outside of that group or 8-10 enemies does not get hit with the blind. I mean sometimes they do but it is not really reliable. And I lose energy. If I want to blind said enemies BEFORE I attack them, I'll just press 2. 

 

 Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slashdash WAS his panic button prior to the rework because he slasdashed THROUGH enemies and not TO them. Now, Slashdash dashes you TO an enemy, and spamming it bounces you between enemies so when you come OUT of slashdash you're actually being put in harms way. 

 

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers, man.

Slash Dash makes you invulnerable to health damage while you're dashing, as you stated, and I also don't think it works as a panic button. It works more like a safe way to engage enemies while playing melee. Slash Dash is, however, one the best skills that Excalibur has, because it does a lot of things for melee oriented tactics. A lot of people don't realize this and think it is weak because of the damage output, but most don't seem to play melee I suppose. But radial blind is the panic button for me.

Edited June 1, 2016 by horcruxpotter

[Epsik-kun]

On 6/1/2016 at 10:49 AM, Legion216 said:

Imagine a group of 8 or so enemies close together. This is a fairly common occurrence. I spin attack them, and they all die because the spin attack is very very powerful. And AFTER they die, Excal does a blind. Erm....whom am I blinding again? Anyone outside of that group or 8-10 enemies does not get hit with the blind. I mean sometimes they do but it is not really reliable. And I lose energy. If I want to blind said enemies BEFORE I attack them, I'll just press 2. 

 

 Correct me if I'm wrong, but Slashdash WAS his panic button prior to the rework because he slasdashed THROUGH enemies and not TO them. Now, Slashdash dashes you TO an enemy, and spamming it bounces you between enemies so when you come OUT of slashdash you're actually being put in harms way. 

 

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Cheers, man.

Why would you need to blind a group of enemies that you can oneshot? Spin attack is a bit over x2 damage of a normal attack - not that much of a difference. Now imagine that you went and pressed 2 for extra damage on that group of enemies you can oneshot anyway, and then. I dunno, 3 Napalms walk out of a corner and your RB is in cooldown - what a nice situation to be in. And I am well aware that losing energy for spin blinds sucks, however people don't seem to understand that even now you need that spin blind, despite the energy cost, were you to go against something you can't oneshot - as the proposal of "remove spin blind then" keeps coming up.

Slash Dash WAS and IS a panic button. Radial Blind won't save you when you walk in a room in T4S and notice level 100 Corrupted Bombard, because the very first thing that bombard will do is to launch a missile at you, that'll happily blow you away while you're blinding stuff. Slash Dash however can and should be pressed on reaction and ping-ponging around isn't really the point - aim it properly, move around properly and you'll be fine. Slash Dash only dashes you to enemy when you aim at that enemy.

Edited June 2, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
Removed inflammatory comment.

[SamuraiPizza]

23 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Why would you need to blind a group of enemies that you can oneshot? Spin attack is a bit over x2 damage of a normal attack - not that much of a difference. Now imagine that you went and pressed 2 for extra damage on that group of enemies you can oneshot anyway, and then. I dunno, 3 Napalms walk out of a corner and your RB is in cooldown - what a nice situation to be in. And I am well aware that losing energy for spin blinds sucks, however people don't seem to understand that even now you need that spin blind, despite the energy cost, were you to go against something you can't oneshot - as the proposal of "remove spin blind then" keeps coming up.

Alright, fair.

23 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Slash Dash WAS and IS a panic button. Radial Blind won't save you when you walk in a room in T4S and notice level 100 Corrupted Bombard, because the very first thing that bombard will do is to launch a missile at you, that'll happily blow you away while you're blinding stuff. Slash Dash however can and should be pressed on reaction and ping-ponging around isn't really the point - aim it properly, move around properly and you'll be fine. Slash Dash only dashes you to enemy when you aim at that enemy.

Alright, I stopped using SD a while ago after it introduced the bouncing mechanic, I didn't enjoy it much. Maybe I'll take another look at it. Again, I rarely ever do level 100 T4S type stuff. But I do see your point.

Edited June 2, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
Removed inflammatory remark in quoted comment.