Update 18.13 Passives Feedback

[DeMonkey]

So, I'm curious. This thread has been up for almost 2 months now, there's 10 pages of feedback. Yet I don't recall any changes to the passives after they were implemented despite the seemingly negative reception of some to most of the passives. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

I don't want to say that it feels like I wasted my time by commenting in the thread, but it kind of feels like it.

If this is just the time period of collating the feedback before making the changes, then I'm afraid that 2 months is more than enough time. I hope we see some changes to the passives soon, people have raised some pretty valid issues and it's saddening to see them ignored.

[KittyDarkling]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

So, I'm curious. This thread has been up for almost 2 months now, there's 10 pages of feedback. Yet I don't recall any changes to the passives after they were implemented despite the seemingly negative reception of some to most of the passives. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

I don't want to say that it feels like I wasted my time by commenting in the thread, but it kind of feels like it.

If this is just the time period of collating the feedback before making the changes, then I'm afraid that 2 months is more than enough time. I hope we see some changes to the passives soon, people have raised some pretty valid issues and it's saddening to see them ignored.

I doubt we'll see much attention here until U19 is out of the way. passives are kinda low priority by comparison. Once we're at U19.1 though I'll be happy to raise a fuss over this.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, KittyDarkling said:

I doubt we'll see much attention here until U19 is out of the way. passives are kinda low priority by comparison. Once we're at U19.1 though I'll be happy to raise a fuss over this.

Perhaps. I fail to see why some tweaks couldn't have been shipped with SotR though.

The thing with tweaks is that the second tweak isn't final, nor does it have to be a big tweak. They can make 100 small tweaks to the passives until they work perfectly. But unless they release tweak #2 we can't give them feedback ready for #3.

Tbh, since this thread has been completely ignored due to the work on U19, perhaps it would have been better to:

A) Not release the passives until now, or

B) Not create a feedback thread until they're actually able to read it.

Seeing a DE created feedback thread that's had plenty of feedback only to have 0 impact on the game... It's disheartening imo.

[TheMortemShadow]

28 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Perhaps. I fail to see why some tweaks couldn't have been shipped with SotR though.

The thing with tweaks is that the second tweak isn't final, nor does it have to be a big tweak. They can make 100 small tweaks to the passives until they work perfectly. But unless they release tweak #2 we can't give them feedback ready for #3.

Tbh, since this thread has been completely ignored due to the work on U19, perhaps it would have been better to:

A) Not release the passives until now, or

B) Not create a feedback thread until they're actually able to read it.

Seeing a DE created feedback thread that's had plenty of feedback only to have 0 impact on the game... It's disheartening imo.

I was the one who actually asked Danielle to post a feedback thread of this as it was the only one missing from U18.13 when it first launched (notice how this one was posted three days later compared to the rest of the Update 18.13 feedback threads), while the other feedback threads were there for the Warframe Changes. To me, that shows they did not bother to care to even think about feedback for passives. I've messaged Rebecca and Danielle asking for any information on changes to the passives as it's needed saying this thread has ten pages and there are many threads out there complaining about the passives, yet the only thing Danielle messaged me was that, "I can't tell you anything at this time, but we have noted the major feedback." This was about a week or two later after Update 18.13 hit. I can't stress the need for changes to some of these passives according to the majority of feedback. I realize DE is very busy at work with The War Within now and I'm as excited as everyone else, but like you said they could have changed it with Specters of the Rail, saying there have already been 10 hotfixes for this one update. I truly ask those who want change to these passives to continue to keep the thread alive and possibly message Warframe staff pleading them to change some of the passives, as it has been over two months now and I have seen no note of our feedback being read or even "noted". The Warframe changes from Update 18.13 were tweaked according to feedback almost immediately, yet there has been not one word about passives and that truly makes me upset and angry. After U19, hopefully they will focus back on our feedback, because although Danielle told me that they have "noted" it, I see no evidence of that or any word of needed changes coming. If no word comes after U19 of changes to passives, then I truly ask you guys to continue to post your feedback and message Warframe staff asking them of changes.

Thank you. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[TheMortemShadow]

For some reason, my first edit made a new post and I have no means of deleting it and I have to add something here? Weird.

Edited July 19, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I don't understand why Oberon and Nyx can't switch passives.

Wouldn't radial disarmed enemies who need to get into melee range benefit the hallowed ground ability?

And Nyx could just passively gain the help of grunt enemies.

[[DE]Danielle]

Thank you for all of your feedback on the passive additions! We appreciate you testing them out and your thoughts and suggestions with the devs. 
 

[TheMortemShadow]

3 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you for all of your feedback on the passive additions! We appreciate you testing them out and your thoughts and suggestions with the devs. 
 

Thank you for checking on our feedback, I'm sorry if my post seemed mean in any way to you guys (that was not my goal, I reread it and it seemed mean and I apologize), but I believe some of us were getting frustrated since there was no word of you guys listening to our feedback for passives. Please continue to listen to our feedback on this thread and several others on the Warframe and Abilities section as we believe passives are something that needs to be changed as soon as possible rather than later as we have pointed out several of the passives are either: 

A) Unfair/hurtful to several playstyles (Nyx, Loki, Trinity, Vauban, Ember, etc.)

B) Too situational and rarely ever happens (Oberon and even Loki, Loki being that very few people use wall-latch)

C) Does not match the Warframe's theme (Nyx, Vauban, Oberon (He is sold as a Paladin character), etc.)

D) It's not a passive (Nyx and Limbo because it requires ability casting)

E) It's simply not a good passive, like too much RNG (Hydroid, Nyx (Although there are some who praise Nyx's passive, they still complain about the RNG and how it doesn't match her), Oberon, etc)

These are the five major complaints I hear and they all have different Warframes they attribute to, I listed some of the ones I hear the most about being complained (sometimes they are praised by few, but the majority usually complains about them. Sorry if I didn't list a passive that was complained about, I just noted the major ones being complained) and tried to attach them to a complaint. Please, please, please notify the Devs of our feedback.

Thank you. 

Edit: I just realized something. You, Danielle, thanked everyone on every feedback thread on Update 18.13 (almost the exact same way with few different words) and unpinned the threads. That seems to me like you guys no longer care or will not change them according to our feedback. Please don't ignore this, we've been asking for changes to Passives for months now and some of them need changes. You guys changed some of the Warframe stuff you changed on Update 18.13 according to their feedback (of course you couldn't change everything as those Warframes needed a nerf, but you tweaked it), but you have done absolutely no changes for passives. These newly added passives aren't like the reworks for those 6 Warframes, they aren't needed and obviously, we don't want some of them. The reworks to those Warframes was something that most of them needed and of course you couldn't change everything according to their feedback, but this is not a rework, these are some passives that can and absolutely should be changed and not ignored. I love the work you guys do at DE, but please prove to me and all the others on this thread that you guys actually listen to our feedback (which is what you guys ALWAYS say) instead of putting almost the exact same two sentences on every feedback thread thanking them of their feedback and never changing it because that is what I fear right now. I fear that you guys will never even bother looking at this thread again and never change some of these passives that our feedback not only has said need changing, but proven that some of them needs changing. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[Xekrin]

7 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you for all of your feedback on the passive additions! We appreciate you testing them out and your thoughts and suggestions with the devs. 
 

3 hours ago, TheMortemShadow said:

That seems to me like you guys no longer care or will not change them according to our feedback. Please don't ignore this, we've been asking for changes to Passives for months now and some of them need changes.

She replied to ever megathread with (nearly) the same response because it was just easier to do, it doesn't mean they are just ignoring all the feedback given.  It was a great deal of feedback to go through, give it time to see if anything is changing.

Feel free to request further information on the devstream this friday, I'm sure there will be a "ask a question" thread showing up for it tomorrow.

[TheMortemShadow]

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

She replied to ever megathread with (nearly) the same response because it was just easier to do, it doesn't mean they are just ignoring all the feedback given.  It was a great deal of feedback to go through, give it time to see if anything is changing.

Feel free to request further information on the devstream this friday, I'm sure there will be a "ask a question" thread showing up for it tomorrow.

You're absolutely right, but it still applies the meaning that they might ignore our feedback. I'm not saying they will, I still believe in DE, but as soon as I saw that it begged the question of will they ignore this. I'm not the only one who has thought this way, look at the other threads and some people are already saying this means they won't change according to our feedback. Plus, the feedback has been there for well over a month, they've already changed or added several things to the Warframes they changed back in Update 18.13 according to feedback almost immediately after the Update came out (of course not all because some of the changes were needed), but they have yet to do one thing about passives and they are just now saying thank you for the feedback without telling us they will change anything. Most of the time when they are going to change something according to our feedback they will say something along the lines of, "Thank you guys for the feedback. We plan on making changes soon so stay tuned to a future hotfix/update!" You can't deny the suspicious nature of the posts where she posts almost the exact response in every thread, proceeds to unpin them all (making it less likely to be seen by other users), and says absolutely nothing about changes coming. That raises the question if we are being ignored, I'm sorry, I know you are trying to defend DE and by no means am I attacking them or anything, but I still must raise that question because to me, it does seem like we are being ignored and we won't receive any changes to passives.

And trust me, I plan on asking that question tomorrow on that thread, I was already thinking about it. To those who want changes for some of the passives, please ask as well on the thread tomorrow as this is something that can't be ignored. 

[[DE]Danielle]

10 hours ago, Xekrin said:

She replied to ever megathread with (nearly) the same response because it was just easier to do, it doesn't mean they are just ignoring all the feedback given.  It was a great deal of feedback to go through, give it time to see if anything is changing.

Feel free to request further information on the devstream this friday, I'm sure there will be a "ask a question" thread showing up for it tomorrow.

Thank you Xekrin! We did in fact read through each page of each megathread post Update 18.13 (I'm going to need new eyes o.o), you're feedback is valuable to us and we understand you have concerns about some of the passives/abilities. 

The dev stream would definitely be a great place to ask questions about the future of these abilities. The devstream thread is live now: 

 

[Wolfnrun]

1 minute ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you Xekrin! We did in fact read through each page of each megathread post Update 18.13 (I'm going to need new eyes o.o), you're feedback is valuable to us and we understand you have concerns about some of the passives/abilities. 

The dev stream would definitely be a great place to ask questions about the future of these abilities. The devstream thread is live now: 

I KNEW IT! You walk around with a clipboard and jot down everything we say!  Yay!!! 

[TheMortemShadow]

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you Xekrin! We did in fact read through each page of each megathread post Update 18.13 (I'm going to need new eyes o.o), you're feedback is valuable to us and we understand you have concerns about some of the passives/abilities. 

The dev stream would definitely be a great place to ask questions about the future of these abilities. The devstream thread is live now: 

 

Alright, thank you, again I apologize for my message, just the post you had yesterday did raise several concerns because it did seem like DE no longer cared, but I was wrong. You guys were right, but thank you again Danielle for giving us another message and not leaving us in the dark. Again, I apologize. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Thank you Xekrin! We did in fact read through each page of each megathread post Update 18.13 (I'm going to need new eyes o.o), you're feedback is valuable to us and we understand you have concerns about some of the passives/abilities. 

Are devs reading it directly or are moderators acting as intermediaries and forwarding the relevant bits?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Let's get Danielle those new eyes already!

Illegal stuffs may ensue

[RunningTree3]

I took some longer time to thoroughly play through and make considerations on what to write for feedback that is not already said here. So now I only have this to add:

Nyx:
A misapplication of the phrase "laying down their arms". The idiosyncrasy of the game's Disarm effect is only to force mobs into melee. "Laying down arms" is to demilitarise, including laying down melee weapons. The description of this passive ability seems to suggest an effect closer to Pacifying Bolts or Djinn's Fatal Attraction.

[TheMortemShadow]

With the PAX West stream, there was another question about passives (Oberon's which led to the discussion of passives) and how they said there are still no changes planned for passives because they're happy about it? I'm sorry, but there's so much feedback on the passives to change most of them added back in Update 18.13. I see no reason why you guys would be happy about the passives when the majority of the community absolutely hates some of the passives. There's so many posts on this one thread and so many separate threads on the different passives complaining about them, I saw one thread praising one passive (Banshee's). Please DE, relook at our feedback like you guys said you did and for the love that is all good in Warframe, please change them. It's obvious we aren't happy with some of the passives, yet you guys still stick with the passives despite some of the passives being absolutely wrong for the Warframe, not suitable for the Warframe, not a passive, not a good passive, or it only suits one playstyle and not any others. PLEASE!  

 

Edit: I rewatched the stream and Sheldon was talking about the passives added to the 13 Warframes when someone asked about passives for the elemental frames being immunity to their element. He talked about how the 13 passives added back were to add more to the Warframes themselves and I quote, "wide variety of frames and trying to figure out what each one does and we kinda don't want to put a inherit disadvantage because of that on the the frames, but looking at ways to make the theme of the frame feel better was the goal of passives, so that's how we addressed that." I'm sorry, some of the passives added back in Update 18.13 don't match the theme of the Warframe at all, this is something that our feedback has discussed at, at great lengths! Nyx has become Loki essentially (even those who praise the passive say so), Loki's doesn't match his theme as a Trickster, but instead matches his movement, Vauban's is ify (it's debatable), etc. It boggles my mind when DE says they listen to our feedback, but in this stream alone it proves they have no intentions of changing the passives when we have given plenty of NEGATIVE feedback. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by TheMortemShadow

[Lord_LongFace]

I have only one issue with most passives:

They do not really complement their warframes playstyle.

I would like to see passives that actually interact with abilities, or that just give more incentive to use sertain abilities.

My biggest issue though:

 

Ember

 

Her passive is the most dangerous of them all for HER. She is incredibly squishy, and will die if she tried to get enemies at mid/high level. 

I get that DE wants it to be that you have to damage yourself to get the huge buff that is Embers passive, but you need consistenty.

Solution?

Easy, just make it that Fireball (her first ability) can damage herself (for a little less than enemies, like, 75% of the damage to enemies or something) and thus can proc a fire status on yourself. This way you have a way to predictably trigger the buff, while still having this ''Cause me pain, and I will cause more'' style of play which is something I really like.

The fact that I would have liked Ember to become this glass cannon who burns herself constently while turning everything to ash around her is what has made me to reply in this thread at all. I see a huge missed opportunity in this kind of playstyle.

[Mideto]

Well, some passives seems good enough for me ( Nyx, Limbo, Ash ). other seems absolutely dispensable/useless (Loki, Oberon...)

 

I mean, Oberon already have a hard time finding his place in this world full of mirage synoid, and he has an absolute garbage passive. Yes, you can rally hyena and kubrow to your cause, but once you leave earth, that's absolutely useless. Besides, Drakh cannot be rallied to our cause. It's basically a passive that never trigger, and when it does, you hardly feel it.Compared to, for instance, mesa limbo or nyx, who's passive has immediate impatch on the game :/

 

I hope DE will change its mind and rework some of them...