Overpowered players

[DatDarkOne]

45 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What you're giving isn't feedback. Simple as that. It's answers without reason, complaints without explanation and a host of argumentative Fallacies seeking to manipulate. Again, my time here is very limited, and I would not like to waste it on these things

But yet called them fallacies when they are in fact true. Then looking at the suggestions from another point of view is argumentative? That means the both of you aren't looking for feedback at all.  Which also means that this whole topic has been a waste of all of our time.

Why am I even defending myself to you who isn't even the OP. I have no one to blame but myself for falling into this nonsense.

Have fun with the topic. It went from weird to insightful, and then back to weird.

[TheBrsrkr]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

But yet called them fallacies when they are in fact true. 

"True " isn't the same as" relevant". If I ask you what the geometric progression of f(x) =x+x/2 is, and you say we're in the month of June, you're not wrong. You just didn't answer my question. That's the fallacy part. You are not talking about the same thing. 

 

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 Then looking at the suggestions from another point of view is argumentative? That means the both of you aren't looking for feedback at all.  Which also means that this whole topic has been a waste of all of our time.

The point of view has to be valid in the first place. Which we determine through the discussion of its points and findings, none of which are relevant to the discussion in your case. Yet you insist that it is relevant, without bothering to explain why or how, therefore wasting my time, your time, OP's time and DE's time, along with everyone else who bothers to read your comments since they have to go through all of them to see if you have a point. But you don't. 

 

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Why am I even defending myself to you who isn't even the OP. I have no one to blame but myself for falling into this nonsense.

If you somehow think the only person relevant on giving feedback on a public forum created for criticism is the OP, then you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how feedback and discussion works. 

 

9 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Have fun with the topic. It went from weird to insightful, and then back to weird.

He says, staring into his computing device screen, at the keyboard that can take him away from the discussion and indeed the entire forum in seconds to something he would actually rather be doing instead of using the same failed argumentative tactics since the thread's inception. All the while not pointing out the parts where I change his narrative or context in the previous post, which would effectively make him "win" the argument and paint me as a fraud by my own hand, because there are none. 

[DatDarkOne]

25 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

using the same failed argumentative tactics since the thread's inception.

My very first post on page 10

 

On 6/15/2016 at 11:12 PM, DatDarkOne said:

This has been an interesting thread.  It started off a little shaky, but is proving to have some thought provoking discussion.  I can't say if I'm one way or the other in regards to the topic.  I like feeling powerful, but then I also like a challenge sometimes.  Heck, I just did today's shotgun only Spy sortie with a rank 0 shotgun just to see if I could do it.  

 

Looking forward to seeing more of the discussion in this topic.  It's interesting.  :D

Second post on this thread.

On 6/16/2016 at 3:35 AM, DatDarkOne said:

Not that I don't agree with your complete post.  It just that there are some frames that favor spamming of their ultimate more so than their other powers.  Well, I know of one for sure.  Artemis Bow screams to be spammed.  I will admit that this is a special case and that her Ult is rarely the only thing used in her arsenal.  Just offering friendly information sidenote and nothing against the message in your post.  :D 

As someone else said before.  Have fun with your thread.  

Edited June 30, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added info

[TheBrsrkr]

24 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

My very first post on page 10

 

Second post on this thread.

 

As someone else said before.  Have fun with your thread.  

 

48 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

The point of view has to be valid in the first place. Which we determine through the discussion of its points and findings, none of which are relevant to the discussion in your case. Yet you insist that it is relevant, without bothering to explain why or how, therefore wasting my time, your time, OP's time and DE's time, along with everyone else who bothers to read your comments since they have to go through all of them to see if you have a point. But you don't. 

 

[IRVoidGuru]

2 hours ago, K0bra said:

Hmm alot of people talk about boring cheesefests and stuff is to easy.

About boring.Why you guys dont ask yourself the question if the content you play is well made or good?Second dream is good.I never heard its a boring chessy grindfest.The reason is because it has alot of content in it.Story story story.

Cheesing to easy content isnt the problem because of your powers and your strength.The problem is that DE cant make FAIR challenging content that has more to offer then only killing enemies and do the same simple objective stuff like forever.Most times its a boring and way to easy mission where you sit and spam your abilities or a completely unfair killfest where you enemies are completely overpowered and you die by the smallest mistake or a wrong setup.Filling content only with enemies is boring.More story would would be welcome and not only with ingame transmissions.

 

yes to all of this 

[Chipputer]

3 hours ago, K0bra said:

Hmm alot of people talk about boring cheesefests and stuff is to easy.

About boring.Why you guys dont ask yourself the question if the content you play is well made or good?Second dream is good.I never heard its a boring chessy grindfest.The reason is because it has alot of content in it.Story story story.

Cheesing to easy content isnt the problem because of your powers and your strength.The problem is that DE cant make FAIR challenging content that has more to offer then only killing enemies and do the same simple objective stuff like forever.Most times its a boring and way to easy mission where you sit and spam your abilities or a completely unfair killfest where you enemies are completely overpowered and you die by the smallest mistake or a wrong setup.Filling content only with enemies is boring.More story would would be welcome and not only with ingame transmissions.

I guess it's impossible for someone to want to remove the cheese and have challenging enemies and also have content that's enjoyable for other reasons, such as Second Dream.

[Soketsu]

11 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you are not on the forums for discussion, then you should not be on the forums. 

So he has to specify constructive and useful? 

Oo

man, did you realise how much you are late ?

page 2 then 28 then 29

& yes he have to, I mean look what is this thread right now & even before the 10 th page

I wonder why do you annoy people who already done a "constructive " post, if it is why you spit right now

13 hours ago, Soketsu said:

XD

I didn't beleive you will really did it... after 2 weeks

anyway you make the effort (to finally read it) & even with all that, i will put that in ---> ( ) forgetting the past

for the 1 st it was assuming (already see a shooter where you can take 10 sec to fully headshot someone before he die), but it's depend of the gameplay you want, either you got a cool one (5 sec before killing someone), like the gameplay was at MR0 & at the extreme with high level gameplay where everyone OS everyone

then as you said it require test and from my memories, why we have to spam abilities, it's for farming/locking ennemies faster, our weapon can't take down enough people, only (some) powers have the range to do it

and finally I think the newer player will have more struggle with gathering ressources if you don't change that too, and also affinity, it will not be a simple equation

for the 2nd my favorite gameplay is let's say (i know it's a little gross) the mage-warrior, I love to have an arsenal of abilties & the weaponry to fight without them when I want I don't care to spam my abilities, I don't need, I just need to take the advantage in less than 4 actions (CC confuse or weaking my enemies,  destroying them by nuke or my weapons, go to a safer postion before the next fight) but I know people who enjoy only that. I don't care how the meta can change, I know I will adapat myself, my problem was to lose too much players

3 no no I was referring especially to a precept where you have to survive 2 minute against I think around 20 30 deadly orokin beam. the powers do not protect you, unless I didn't understand, the only way seem to spam shield & health restores because you can't destroy them all and last time I done it they respawn(at this moment Inaros did not exist so perhaps now...). 

4 hmm i'm not sure about that if the DE will appreciate it but right now i discuss with you so let's say alright

5 we agree so no need to say something else

6 no acolytes (and all sentient by extension) ^^

7 hmm I see & that explain many things about some other players, still I din't we can cheese them, I just kill them then go

8 I agree with that, it would change almost nothing to my gameplay anyway, but I was refering to syndicate, the only way to accumulate fast energy,( I tell you that right now, i do not like the simulor, I only take him for fast annoying extermination where the ennemies don't pop at the good time so i have to go back then forword then back again)

9 hmmm still I worry about the fact we might loose too much players but after all on this point I'm not sure about the magnitude of this consequences:/

10 like i said semi-god vs supersoldiers ^^

a semi-god can die I think, but a god, well all depend what is your concept/definition of god, and it is another debate

11 played too, still amuse me from time to time (especially after some game on overwatch)

12 well with that I think now I understand you better, and I know why you suggest that

I agree, the best example I will ever got are trinity; how can we introduce a relevant heal if we already got something with infinite range, full instant restore that provide huge protection for more than 20 sec, well DE fix it (even i do like the way) and she is still relevant even for the hardest content

where I disagree it's that you OP sound like we need to do that too fast and that I can't accept

 

anyway i'm really surprised you did it, I though it was completely over

but like I said the problem got it's how many player we will lose in the process, and i'm not convinced it will bring so much skill than that

moreover how the process will be complete:

- taking our time or changing everything in one blow ? I prefer the 1st one

- how will you adjust the change between player & AI ? like I seen on a good post , I need to find him again , the better solution is to put and player & ennemies in the equation at the same time but also it's the hardest one

 

PS : i don't want to start another sensless war but I need to clarify something outside this thread

please read before posting what happened, you're not helping to give "construtive" & "useful" feedback with that

Edited June 30, 2016 by Soketsu

[Soketsu]

On 16/06/2016 at 6:12 AM, DatDarkOne said:

This has been an interesting thread.  It started off a little shaky, but is proving to have some thought provoking discussion.  I can't say if I'm one way or the other in regards to the topic.  I like feeling powerful, but then I also like a challenge sometimes.  Heck, I just did today's shotgun only Spy sortie with a rank 0 shotgun just to see if I could do it.  

 

Looking forward to seeing more of the discussion in this topic.  It's interesting.  :D

 

On 16/06/2016 at 10:35 AM, DatDarkOne said:

Not that I don't agree with your complete post.  It just that there are some frames that favor spamming of their ultimate more so than their other powers.  Well, I know of one for sure.  Artemis Bow screams to be spammed.  I will admit that this is a special case and that her Ult is rarely the only thing used in her arsenal.  Just offering friendly information sidenote and nothing against the message in your post.  :D 

If for you Brsrkr that is not feedback... 

anyway, bravo, you manage, to make a guy leaving... I admire that ... "discussion"

 

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

6 hours ago, (PS4)IrSchm33 said:

and here is the problem, you are still looking at the effect efficiency has and not the stat itself. yes its the most "cost effective" i think we are finally understanding what efficiency means. You Get The Best Effect Out Of Your Cost !. Once again you are not able to see or validate that the Cost of the mod Fleeting expertise being low, is Strongly due to its  Equal negative to its positive. can i ask before we get EVEN FARTHER into disagreeing with each other. how would your changes imply skill? it would force players to think more and choose when to use abilities sure, that isn't skill. the application of knowledge and the ability to act on that is skill. what your asking for "imo" is just nerfing 

Efficiency is just a meta stat, what we are actually interested in and what we are looking to improve are the results of increased efficiency. You also failed to counter my claim how fleeting expertise is countered by it's negative stats since I showed you the math that it's by far the most mod point and mod slot cost efficient.

As for explaining how this makes things more skilled...is that really not obvious? Abilities being a limited resource would force players to position themselves properly to get the most out of their ability since they can't spam them as much, it would also force them to consider whether to even use abilities in situations that can be easily solved without them. They could also consider using less costly, lower tiered abilities to get the job done. I have to ask, what do you even consider to be "skill" in warframe if it doesn't involve: gunplay, positioning, efficient skill use, parkour?

IMO abilities are here to give warframes unique flavor, reduce the difficulty of certain encounters and to make gameplay more fluid in general, but since unrestricted ability use would trivialize the game DE gave us energy stat as a limiter as well as give skills different tiers with different costs depending on their "power" to alter the game. Decoy costs 25 because it only draws attention and can proc, but Radial disarm disarms enemies in a wide radius. The 2 have obvious differences in altering gameplay and hence the different cost. 

6 hours ago, K0bra said:

Hmm alot of people talk about boring cheesefests and stuff is to easy.

About boring.Why you guys don't ask yourself the question if the content you play is well made or good?Second dream is good.I never heard its a boring chessy grindfest.The reason is because it has a lot of content in it.Story story story.

So, how long did it take you to complete the quests? How does that time compare to the total time you've spent ingame?

6 hours ago, K0bra said:

Cheesing to easy content isn't the problem because of your powers and your strength.The problem is that DE cant make FAIR challenging content that has more to offer then only killing enemies and do the same simple objective stuff like forever.Most times its a boring and way to easy mission where you sit and spam your abilities or a completely unfair killfest where you enemies are completely overpowered and you die by the smallest mistake or a wrong setup.Filling content only with enemies is boring.More story would would be welcome and not only with ingame transmissions.

 

DE can't make challenging enemies because the players have the power to render all enemies who aren't directly immune or resistant to our powers completely helpless and have little limits in doing so. You expect DE to make more "story" which takes a lot of time and money when the players have the option to blaze through their content unless DE put in enemies and obstacles that are immune to our powers or introduces more grind walls.

[LuckyCharm]

Okay, so now that I have my thoughts in order.. From a player that's been playing since beta, there seems to be a misconception. The game was designed to have you vs a hoarde of enemies. You were always supposed to be able to die. That's the point of a game. If you were immortal or able to just have infinate energy and just spam abilities all mission the game would be... lego except without the parody storylines and just snippets of lore. 

That being said, is the best way to remove immortality? Probably not. People play frames like wukong because they want to be immortal. But does that take away the challenge from the game? No. You can still die as soon as your energy runs out, or die when you turn the skill of to refresh it. And both immortal frames are not really cc based and neither are the greatest at defending points. 

So is ev a problem? Yes. Yes it is. EV and other fast energy regeneration methods do kind of stop you playing smart with your powers, instead letting you clear content quickly with little thought purely by skill spam. This takes away from the game in terms of challenging content. BUT that being said, it would probably be best to just limit these things from being used during quests. Since the rest of the game is all about farming and hunting for better equipment.

 

As a side note on the story.. I would be happy if DE kept releasing small quests here and there with the current story. But what I'd really like is an official history and lore available to those who want to read it on the codex for some of the elements that won't necessarily be touched by quests in the near future. Like what happened to make earth into the state it is, what caused venus to be an iceworld when it's that close to the sun, what exactly do grineer eat? What is in Sargus Ruk's top 10 list of barbeque recipies?

 

 

[TheBrsrkr]

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

Oo

man, did you realise how much you are late ?

page 2 then 28 then 29

& yes he have to, I mean look what is this thread right now & even before the 10 th page

Have you read the rules and regulations? It's a requirement. You don't just come here to post random fragments and and meaningless statements. I can't believe I'm explaining this to someone on a feedback forum. 

 

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

I wonder why do you annoy people who already done a "constructive " post, if it why you spit 

[your old post] 

I can't read this. No seriously, I can't read this. Consider revising. 

 

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

 please read before posting what happened, you're not helping to give "construtive" & "useful" feedback with that

Point out to me what parts of your posts were either constructive or useful, in plain English. 

 

4 hours ago, Soketsu said:

If for you Brsrkr that is not feedback... 

anyway, bravo, you manage, to make a guy leaving... I admire that ... "discussion"

Show me which part of either of those posts offers an answer to the question how or why. 

[Slaviar]

5 hours ago, Soketsu said:

 

If for you Brsrkr that is not feedback... 

anyway, bravo, you manage, to make a guy leaving... I admire that ... "discussion"

 

Don't bother with him. He just knows. He knows everything about game, its mechanics and balance. We are all uneducated savages who refuse to see wisdom of His words

Edited June 30, 2016 by Slaviar

[Fuegan1431]

I feel for you, Fuzzy-Bunny.  I'd love the game to go the direction you mentioned - any of it - but people are very close-minded to change and sooner reject an idea than ponder it.  I don't have the time nor willingness to forum rage with people, just know that there are those who don't vocalize their thoughts that agree with what you're saying and what you're trying to do.  Thank you.

In its current state the game is a bore and the only reason to play is just to get X thing, not to go and have fun.  When my friends ask me if they should play the game, I warn them about the grind.  I take them on less than a dozen missions just to get the essential mods and Ember and suddenly they can solo the game, able to grind the full contents of the game just by following a short to-do list to get them to that end game power.  That's not fun.  And it's not because I gave them to tools to cheese that made it tedious, it's that enemies don't offer a challenge, they're just mindless fodder or at best, roadbumps that cause more frustration than anything resembling a challenge.  I don't have a single friend who actually plays the game, most have quit before they get 6 hours logged in because to them, the gameplay is like listening to a lecture to something you already know, you're only doing it to get the grade at the end, not because anything being said is of interest to you - and I agree with them.

[TheBrsrkr]

27 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Don't bother with him. He just knows. He knows everything about game, its mechanics and balance. We are all uneducated savages who refuse to see wisdom of His words

If you do know something about the topic that I have failed to point out or have misrepresented, by all means point it out in detail. Or is this just more of the useless passive aggressive posturing I've come to expect from topics like these? 

[-CM-Emptiness]

So the last couple pages have just been nonsense... Why bother convincing people who just don't want to listen? Why bother listening to people who 'just don't get it'? This is what it ultimately boils down to. So do us a favor and quit the side-arguments; if this is going to reach 100 pages it better not be filled with meaningless blame games.

[Slaviar]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

If you do know something about the topic that I have failed to point out or have misrepresented, by all means point it out in detail. Or is this just more of the useless passive aggressive posturing I've come to expect from topics like these? 

Hmm, suppousedly Dex Sybaris Latron Prime is trash. Suppousedly it's players who make low level alert trivial...

Edited June 30, 2016 by Slaviar
Latron Prime, not Dex Sybaris

[(PSN)KnowLedge]

OP definitely voting for Clinton......welp

 

*nerf nerf nerf nerf*

Edited June 30, 2016 by (PS4)KnowLedge

[Soketsu]

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

Don't bother with him. He just knows. He knows everything about game, its mechanics and balance. We are all uneducated savages who refuse to see wisdom of His words

ah yeah since he is the superior being, it's normal he consider that he making the law here ! oh sorry god in this human body to trying discuss with other people, sorry to have contested your authority... or not, will just ignore this guy it will be better, even for him

was finally in a real discussion with funny-buzzy (last time I post something toward him), & he jump on me again, his post are the damn same thing that he cry on "unconstructive meaningless aggressive post" XD

[TheBrsrkr]

50 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Hmm, suppousedly Dex Sybaris Latron Prime is trash. 

Did I say it was trash, or did I say it did not directly compete with the overpowered weapons, by virtue of then being overpowered  weapons? Damn Slaviar, back at it again with the intellectual dishonesty. 

52 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

 Suppousedly it's players who make low level alert trivial...

Wherever possible. I explained why EVERYTHING is trivial on the lower planets because the lower planets were designed to face people with little knowledge or ability within the confines of the game. A Mercury alert is trivial because it's on Mercury. A Ceres alert is trivial because you made it trivial. Which I explained to you in detail, which you dutifully ignored. 

20 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

ah yeah since he is the superior being, it's normal he consider that he making the law here! 

I never said that I was superior to anyone, but I suppose it may seem so to people who don't understand anything I'm trying to say. A simple request. Point out where I was wrong. Point out where I changed the meaning of something you said. Point out which parts of the posts I quoted were feedback specific to this issue. You failed on all counts. Does that make me superior? No. It just makes you wrong. 

[Slaviar]

26 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Did I say it was trash, or did I say it did not directly compete with the overpowered weapons, by virtue of then being overpowered  weapons? Damn Slaviar, back at it again with the intellectual dishonesty. 

No, you put it with Burston Prime, which is one of trash weapons (excuse me, "balanced" weapons, according to you) while I've proven it's superior to Soma Prime (which at the moment is one of stronger weapons, excuse me, overpowered weapons according to you). So no, no intelectual dishonesty on my side.

29 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Wherever possible. I explained why EVERYTHING is trivial on the lower planets because the lower planets were designed to face people with little knowledge or ability within the confines of the game. A Mercury alert is trivial because it's on Mercury. A Ceres alert is trivial because you made it trivial. Which I explained to you in detail, which you dutifully ignored.

I ignored nothing. You stopped responding about it. Despite me asking for an answer few times.
Ceres alerts have <40 lvl mobs. Am I suppoused to equip my worst weapons and frames to do them? Aren't you one of people who oppose doing it?

[Soketsu]

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

No, you put it with Burston Prime, which is one of trash weapons (excuse me, "balanced" weapons, according to you) while I've proven it's superior to Soma Prime (which at the moment is one of stronger weapons, excuse me, overpowered weapons according to you). So no, no intelectual dishonesty on my side.

I ignored nothing. You stopped responding about it. Despite me asking for an answer few times.
Ceres alerts have <40 lvl mobs. Am I suppoused to equip my worst weapons and frames to do them? Aren't you one of people who oppose doing it?

I take a latron or braton for ceres I can solo it ez, even a skana is enough in order to solo some mission on ceres XD

quoting the example of ceres as "player cheese on ceres" , hopefully you're here  in order to quote this gem (I can't & don't want to see anymore, thx ignoring settings)...

slaviar don't waste your time for him anymore, he will always say the divine absolute truth

just ignore him, let him believe that he's right or us wrong, it will make him happy :p

edit : also it will stop this ... "battle", making job moderator easier

Edited June 30, 2016 by Soketsu

[(PSN)Crixus044]

So I've read your post, and even though what you say is logical, it's not how warframe is designed. If you consider enemy levels, nightmare missions are around level 30, which is right where warframe level cap off. This is an indicator that level 30 enemies are suppose to challange level 30 warframes. Bringing a level 30 warframe with level 30 weapons (no potatoes or auras), I can see the challenge imposed. It's weak , but there. Here's where things get tricky. Warframes have something we call potatoes. This essentially doubles our level by doubling our capabilities. On top of this, we have forma and auras. These just keep adding to our effective level. Our warframe level may be 30, but our effective level, or "EL" is 60+. Auras add 10-18 capacity, adding to our capabilities and forma add even more. Discounting forma, our effective level is 60-78 depending on build. It makes sense that sorties and raids start right at this level. Adding forma has also made these enemies beneath us, but warframe is not suppose to be about enemies at our level. We are magical space ninjas that fly around is faster than light ships, splitting armored space marines with swords like they're tomato cans and pinning heavy enemies to walls with bows and throwing knives. No enemy can ever match us, unless you have nullifying capabilities, in which case, please leave the game. You're ruining my ninja. We should have SOME dominion over our enemies.

What needs to be done is have better star chart missions that start players off at higher levels. Every other mmo style game i've played has missions for players right off the bat at their level. Sorties are the only thing that players of this caliber have to do at these levels, and those missions superimpose weird obstacles like energy reduction and augmented armor on top of the level requirments. For regular missions, the only thing players with warframes and weapons of this caliber have are raids and endless missions, which force players to wait 45 minutes at most for enemies to reach the desired level, which is coincidentally around level 70.  This indicates that the problem is NOT the players, but the enemies and missions that match our level. It's what needs to be addressed in the star chart rework.

We have 14 planets (dwarfs and moons included) and minimum 12 missions per planet up to 26. Why do most nodes have duplicated missions (2 exterminate missions on one planet around the same level). Multiply the average number of nodes by planets and divide by 2.5 to include all three factions (half because infested only have one planet as of late) and you get a minimum of 106.4 missions, and this is not only minimum, but VASTLY under what the number actually is because most planets have more than the average nodes. There are around 12 mission types per planet, including hijack and other rare mission types. We should have enough missions to have nodes that start at level 72, or even 100 if desired.

I know this may seem off topic, but I believe that this is the reason why we believe plaayers are too powerful. We just haven't been playing at our level yet. Sorties imposing weird requirements and nullifiers do NOT quantify as matching player level because they're open to counterplay, which devolves into the idea of cheesing missions. Playing the game to your level is not equal to limiting player capabilities. That is a Challange. Nullifiers, sortie requirements and other obvious counterplay tactics do not balance enemies for advanced players, they ruin it. I guarantee, that if we had more missions that start at higher levels, we'd see less problems with overpowered players.

Edited June 30, 2016 by (PS4)Crixus044

[TheBrsrkr]

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

No, you put it with Burston Prime, which is one of trash weapons (excuse me, "balanced" weapons, according to you) while I've proven it's superior to Soma Prime (which at the moment is one of stronger weapons, excuse me, overpowered weapons according to you). So no, no intelectual dishonesty on my side.

Funny thing is, you were the one that compared it to Burston Prime, on the grounds that both were balanced.  Weapons being balanced doesn't mean the same thing as comparable. 

As for the Latron Prime being superior to the Soma Prime, you posted this:

On 6/22/2016 at 8:11 PM, Slaviar said:

I've tested it at Simulacrum. Soma Prime takes four times more ammunition to kill same enemy, assuming you use similar build and aim in similar way. By the time Latron* expends half of its ammo Soma Prime already ran out of its reserve. This require ammo mutation (which lowers damage) or restores (but hey, aren't restores cheese?) to counter

Which in itself has several problems. First and foremost, the Latron Prime is a status, not crit, weapon. The Soma Prime would benefit much, much more than the Latron with a similar crit build than status. Next is the crit multiplier on headshot, further increasing the distance between the two. After that it's the fact that the Latron Prime is one of the most if not the most ammo efficient guns in the game, while the Soma Prime is one of the most ammo inefficient, and comparing the two in that capacity  is an exercise in futility since they were built for two completely different purposes and playstyles. 4 times as much ammo on a weapon built to use a lot of bullets is standard fare for any automatic, therefore meaningless. Then there's the fact that the Soma will sustain this fire for the entire time you need it while the Latron Prime has to reload 2.4 seconds for every 15 shots, which themselves can take anywhere from 3 seconds upward to empty, which have to be precisely aimed for the effect you're talking about, increasing the amount of time you spend getting shot to pieces before taking anything down. All that time,the Soma Prime will spend stuttering away at something like 15 rounds a second  minus the bursts you need for consistent headshots and the one time wind up that's really not that significant. The Soma Prime can get three Latron Prime clips worth, which you said is more than enough, which is 45 rounds, times 4 which is 180, off much, much faster than the Latron Prime can. That's thirty minutes of my time wasted on something that everyone already knows but you dare to construe as an argument anyway. Scratch one more line on that board for intellectual dishonesty. 

 

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

I ignored nothing. You stopped responding about it. Despite me asking for an answer few times.

If by a few times you meant never, then sure. And that was directly after the point where you said you would no longer wanted to speak with me, so I simply did not care whether you posted or not, as you did not want a discussion. And look where we are not. Not to mention that your post ignored everything in the previous one. Another 5 minutes, wasted. 

 

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

Ceres alerts have <40 lvl mobs. Am I suppoused to equip my worst weapons and frames to do them? Aren't you one of people who oppose doing it?

Has anything I have actually said on the topic put the onus on the players to change what they are doing, or has it put the onus on the game to prevent them from being able to do it in the first place?  I suggested nothing of the sort, and I had to look over my posts to see if I did, so that's another 10 minutes down the drain. 

 

So that was altogether 55 minutes, nearly an hour of my time, refuting things you said days ago that could have just been copy pasted or quoted from page 19 and put on this one. And yet still you have added nothing to the conversation. All you have are jeers. All you can do is block me. But that will not make me wrong. And that will not make you right. The rest of the forum will see exactly what transpired here, and they will draw their own conclusions from it. 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

4 hours ago, (PS4)KnowLedge said:

OP definitely voting for Clinton......welp

what is this i don't even ...

[IRVoidGuru]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

So I've read your post, and even though what you say is logical, it's not how warframe is designed. If you consider enemy levels, nightmare missions are around level 30, which is right where warframe level cap off. This is an indicator that level 30 enemies are suppose to challange level 30 warframes. Bringing a level 30 warframe with level 30 weapons (no potatoes or auras), I can see the challenge imposed. It's weak , but there. Here's where things get tricky. Warframes have something we call potatoes. This essentially doubles our level by doubling our capabilities. On top of this, we have forma and auras. These just keep adding to our effective level. Our warframe level may be 30, but our effective level, or "EL" is 60+. Auras add 10-18 capacity, adding to our capabilities and forma add even more. Discounting forma, our effective level is 60-78 depending on build. It makes sense that sorties and raids start right at this level. Adding forma has also made these enemies beneath us, but warframe is not suppose to be about enemies at our level. We are magical space ninjas that fly around is faster than light ships, splitting armored space marines with swords like they're tomato cans and pinning heavy enemies to walls with bows and throwing knives. No enemy can ever match us, unless you have nullifying capabilities, in which case, please leave the game. You're ruining my ninja. We should have SOME dominion over our enemies.

What needs to be done is have better star chart missions that start players off at higher levels. Every other mmo style game i've played has missions for players right off the bat at their level. Sorties are the only thing that players of this caliber have to do at these levels, and those missions superimpose weird obstacles like energy reduction and augmented armor on top of the level requirments. For regular missions, the only thing players with warframes and weapons of this caliber have are raids and endless missions, which force players to wait 45 minutes at most for enemies to reach the desired level, which is coincidentally around level 70.  This indicates that the problem is NOT the players, but the enemies and missions that match our level. It's what needs to be addressed in the star chart rework.

We have 14 planets (dwarfs and moons included) and minimum 12 missions per planet up to 26. Why do most nodes have duplicated missions (2 exterminate missions on one planet around the same level). Multiply the average number of nodes by planets and divide by 2.5 to include all three factions (half because infested only have one planet as of late) and you get a minimum of 106.4 missions, and this is not only minimum, but VASTLY under what the number actually is because most planets have more than the average nodes. There are around 12 mission types per planet, including hijack and other rare mission types. We should have enough missions to have nodes that start at level 72, or even 100 if desired.

I know this may seem off topic, but I believe that this is the reason why we believe plaayers are too powerful. We just haven't been playing at our level yet. Sorties imposing weird requirements and nullifiers do NOT quantify as matching player level because they're open to counterplay, which devolves into the idea of cheesing missions. Playing the game to your level is not equal to limiting player capabilities. That is a Challange. Nullifiers, sortie requirements and other obvious counterplay tactics do not balance enemies for advanced players, they ruin it. I guarantee, that if we had more missions that start at higher levels, we'd see less problems with overpowered players.

this is so beautiful that i had to read it 3 times over , this is just YES ! yes to every second of what im reading , lets make a planet at the lvl we want , lets make T5 with starting lvl 50-60 enemies ( without adding ANOTHER damage multiplyer to enemies  x4 is enough ) the challenge exists for me and a large number of players, my only issue is waiting for 45min ina T4 survival just to get enemies to start being what i want. more high lvl "end game " content rather then Swing the nerf bat our way. i agree with previously stated comments the feeling of being overpowered , and the ability to use your powers when you want, these are aspects i enjoy and keep me having fun, limiting my access to powers is not acceptable and would drive me to another game, Quickly