You know what really upsets me the most?

[Icpmcp]

This update didn't bring anything interesting besides new bugs.

What did you expect ?

Its the internet after all.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Icpmcp
hellodarknessmyoldfriend

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I agree that dev bashing, rant threads, and toxic arguments lead nowhere. What I don't understand is this bizarre love and praise for DE working around the clock or listening to their players for feedback, as if this is in our best interest and not theirs. I'm not talking about being grateful for a product you enjoy; I'm talking about this "worship" aspect I see so often. The staff at DE are just that, staff. It's not like these are the first salary paid employees to "work around the clock" (I'd imagine not every employee is salary paid so some are banking overtime). De listens to feedback and tries to please their player base while continuing to make this game great. Why do you think they do this? For our pleasure and enjoyment? They do this because it's a free to pay game. They are a business and the longer the game stays relevant the longer they stay in business. If they completely stopped looking at threads or caring about what the community would like to see, they'd probably go under. That's why you see $60 games being developed, released, and forgotten. They've gotten their money's worth (I'm leaving DLC out of this mess of a post). It's good to be thankful and let DE know they're doing a good job (that's just courtesy), but I fail to see what makes them different from any other worker/designer out their. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet my next paycheck that there's not a driver here that can name a single engineer that worked on their vehicle without looking it up. Or to apply this to video games, I'd doubt any PC gamer could name the engineers that created their GPU.

Edited July 9, 2016 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

It's not about staff bashing, it's about to address feedback very clear. With this update (Nullifiers...) DE made a clear statement. So I'll make a clear statement, too.

 

[RoninJed]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

I agree that dev bashing, rant threads, and toxic arguments lead nowhere. What I don't understand is this bizarre love and praise for DE working around the clock or listening to their players for feedback, as if this is in our best interest and not theirs. I'm not talking about being grateful for a product you enjoy; I'm talking about this "worship" aspect I see so often. The staff at DE are just that, staff. It's not like these are the first salary paid employees to "work around the clock" (I'd imagine not every employee is salary paid so some are banking overtime). De listens to feedback and tries to please their player base while continuing to make this game great. Why do you think they do this? For our pleasure and enjoyment? They do this because it's a free to pay game. They are a business and the longer the game stays relevant the longer they stay in business. If they completely stopped looking at threads or caring about what the community would like to see, they'd probably go under. That's why you see $60 games being developed, released, and forgotten. They've gotten their money's worth (I'm leaving DLC out of this mess of a post). It's good to be thankful and let DE know they're doing a good job (that's just courtesy), but I fail to see what makes them different from any other worker/designer out their. I'm not a betting man, but I'd bet my next paycheck that there's not a driver here that can name a single engineer that worked on their vehicle without looking it up. Or to apply this to video games, I'd doubt any PC gamer could name the engineers that created their GPU.

+1 I have said pretty much the exact same thing as you. I like and support DE and have told others that I think they are a good company but like any company...it's all about the money. I haven't  had enough time to fully experience this update yet but I will say that star map looks prettier then before hehe. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

OP, let's be honest with ourselves. There's little point in feedback saying what was done right for it will not help the game to get better. It will make people feel better but from the logic standpoint it's simply not productive for everyone involved. So naturally logical people point out everything which is wrong in their opinion. And when there's a lot "wrong" in the update, the reception is going to look toxic simply from the sheer amount of issues presented. And if the magnitude of "wrong" is going too high like the recent nullie buff, you'd get several (dozens) of unhappy reports further increasing the overall "toxic" look.

And remember one of the rules of marketing. A happy customer would likely share their experience with a few friends. The unhappy one would do everything to let everyone know about their negative experience. That is pretty natural that negative feedback is generally louder, I guess?

[Otaiken]

The response is really not that bad. I've been here for a long time and I've seen more backlash for less really.

This update pretty much broke most melee weapons in the game, that is pretty big bloody issue. And that's just one of the many even before we start talking about the new mechanics themselves.

Edited July 9, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[Fionntan]

4 hours ago, Kalenath said:

You are expecting rational thought on the internet. Not going to happen.

The changes are immense, but in my own experience, with the exception of the new Archwign mission, 'Rush' which is essentially unplayable as it is for most players, everything else is more efficient, cleaner and easier.

Problem is, it is DIFFERENT and people don't LIKE different.

Especially when their favorite cheesy exploit goes away.

This 

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

if you hate bugs, DONT play on patch day

this + make sure report said bugs pls & ty

4 hours ago, Beggining said:

Today's update brought a lot of big changes, so of course jimmies are going to be rustled - some people have expectations, while others are used to the old things. (Personally, I think the new starchart could benefit from bigger markers; my general reaction was "whoaaa.." and "whuh?")

 

But hey, if it's any consolation, I haven't heard anyone complaining about dem cats :D

& this.

So far, been faffing with new stuff and while does have its bugs to report away I been having quite fun haven't had in awhile.

Do note I am no shape or form 100% agree to all the changes or praise DE while turning blind at bugs/downside on said update; I do expect such things be addressed somewhere down the road *cough* Null buffs *cough*.

 

I agree with OP on its message, although it be gullible to expect the internet to always be constructive/mature in forums; report feature exists for this sole purpose so mods can clean said messes left behind after the firework show (as monotonous as it may be).

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by Fionntan

[F-Minus]

Well, I love the new content, but the bugs are just sucking the joy out of the game right now. I tried "survive Draco for 20 minutes" 5 times now, and not a single try registered for the Jupiter junction and similar and then there's the other 200 star chart bugs. Some bugs are to be expected with a complete system change, but this just went live without any Q/A. 

I think it's time DE launches a public beta on steam for all their patches, like many games are already doing, because whilst this patch is great on content it's pretty bad when it comes to quality. This could have easily spent another month in polish before release. 

[Punisher106]

For the most part, I do enjoy the prime revamp, but that's probably because I got a ton of relics. The only gripe I really have with this update is the nullifiers killing bubbles. I tried to do MD in the void to unlock nodes, and I failed the mission because of those damn bubbles constantly popping my snow globes, and my Tonkor rounds were doing jack to him.

[DEATHLOK]

It may have been the schedule leading up to TennoCon, but the developers bear responsibility for the negative reactions to this update.

First and foremost, there was a distinct lack of communication leading to the update. What we got was rife with ever-changing and confusing terminology. This confused changes to the Void and farming. It bred fear and suspicion. Some major, game-changing decisions came out of the blue, as if to "catch" players before they could prepare. I'm specifically talking about Draco. My apologies for all the real money I gave you for Forma during my power-leveling bender. I will never buy Forma again, as doing so breaks the game and upsets the developers.

Bug or not, Donald Trump backpedaling be damned, current changes to the Market paint DE as money-grabbing smart phone app scammers. Don't do it again, not even if there is a schedule you are working 24/7 to make.

The game itself is missing any content that explains the changes. Obviously, the release was rushed and there was no time to include new narrative. The community should not shoulder the blame for the current lack of understanding that exists. That's on the developers. Someone made the conscious decision to push for a particular date. The game changed overnight without much explanation, and this is a predictable result. Please remember that not everyone follows you on Twitter 24/7 or has an hour to burn watching your devstreams. What was posted in the Developer Workshop at the forums was changing, alien, frequently unintelligible, and lacking context. Again, not the fault of the community. Have an intern write a guide to the changes and post it, if everyone is too busy coding and testing to bother describing fundamental changes to game content.

I will add that I have doubts about resource drop rates, suspecting they've been curbed to encourage real money purchases. Affinity range seems to have been shrunk. Access to Derelict missions was cut off by the substitution of a new resource; this may have been resolved, but it happened, nonetheless.

I cannot stress enough how damaging Market changes have been to my faith in the developer.

Edited July 9, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[DEATHLOK]

1 hour ago, LocoWithGun said:

This update pretty much broke most melee weapons in the game, that is pretty big bloody issue. And that's just one of the many even before we start talking about the new mechanics themselves.

I'd love to read an explanation, if anyone has time.

[Armoxa]

I agree that devbashing is not needed at all, but a lot of these bugs are unexcusable. And they didn't get through because bug testing is difficult and differences in dev builds and all that. It was flat out rushed, and in case you don't believe me, DE_Steve said so himself on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/4rz6s7/hate_me_all_you_want_but_sotr_was_and_is_a/d55gwi4

[Fionntan]

11 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

It may have been the schedule leading up to TennoCon, but the developers bear responsibility for the negative reactions to this update.

First and foremost, there was a distinct lack of communication leading to the update. What we got was rife with ever-changing and confusing terminology. This confused changes to the Void and farming. It bred fear and suspicion. Some major, game-changing decisions came out of the blue, as if to "catch" players before they could prepare. I'm specifically talking about Draco. My apologies for all the real money I gave you for Forma during my power-leveling bender. I will never buy Forma again, as doing so breaks the game and upsets the developers.

Bug or not, Donald Trump backpedaling be damned, changes to the Market paint DE as money-grabbing smart phone app scammers. Don't do it again, not even if there is a schedule you are working 24/7 to make.

The game itself is missing any content that explains the changes. Obviously, the release was rushed and there was no time to include new narrative. The community should not shoulder the blame for the current lack of understanding that exists. That's on the developers. Someone made the conscious decision to push for a particular date. The game changed overnight without much explanation, and this is a predictable result. Please remember that not everyone follows you on Twitter 24/7 or has an hour to burn watching your devstreams. What was posted in the Developer Workshop at the forums was changing, alien, frequently unintelligible, and lacking context. Again, not the fault of the community. Have an intern write a guide to the changes and post it, if everyone is too busy coding and testing to bother describing fundamental changes to game content.

I will add that I have doubts about resource drop rates, suspecting they've been curbed to encourage real money purchases. Affinity range seems to have been shrunk.

I cannot stress enough how damaging Market changes have been to my faith in the developer.

Might be right on Tennocon, but this always been same Song & Dance with their big updates like these (as per experience I observed so far in past).

Thanks for sharing your concerns though, hope they do get around to polish the market.

[Otaiken]

24 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

I'd love to read an explanation, if anyone has time.

I'm not honestly sure if it affects everyone or how it even happened but it's pretty bad.

If you have dual swords or a hammer just take it for a spin in mission or two and you'll know what I mean.

In short, many combos (or even quick melee) lock you in place when you attack so you can't move forward even an inch. It's utterly horrible.

Nikanas seem largely unaffected which might explain why many people didn't notice or think it applies just to singular weapon/stance. The new stance for dual daggers and dual daggers in general are completely #*($%%@ for example, sporting combos that push the target out of the range of the rest of the combo (as you can't move forward).

Edited July 9, 2016 by LocoWithGun

[Brasten]

What happened is DE tried to eat a 5 course meal, in under 5 minutes, and choked on it. It will eventually get sorted (after we abdominal thrust them a bit)

You can lambaste the community for its negativity, but DE really shouldn't be doing these kinds of mega updates. It's never worked out well historically. One major system at time, polish, refine, move forward. Also exhausting themselves and going into a weekend (Friday) release has also historically not been good for DE.

What really upsets me is that DE still hasn't learned this lesson. You don't try to push updates on more than one major system at time (we go three, map, void/relics, archwing), and you don't release on a weekend (because you need the week to fix what got broken).

This update should have been delayed until Tuesday of next week (July 12th). A final pass and check conducted on Monday. Leaving Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday for hot fixing as the community acts as a mass and disorganized QA department.

Instead we have Saturday, Sunday, and likely a decent chunk of Monday where things will remain in a rather deplorable state. We get left, again, with a bad taste of an initial update that doesn't help DEs reputation (that Market update flub is still hanging around for 3 days).

Friday Updates, the day before a major social event in another country, are not good for Warframe.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Brasten

[Zerathos_Dagon]

While I agree the community can be whiney and a bit toxic, I also have to agree that they are right most of the time. I can understand your sentiment, but come on, can you really say you don't see anything incredibly wrong with this update? I mean, I don't want to attack DE, in fact I thank them for working so hard. But come on now, just as we have to admit that they did something right, we just as equally have to admit when they did something wrong. No offense, but I hate people kissing the bottoms of others more than I hate whiney people.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Zerathos_Dagon

[Rakosta_Kai]

Well said.

[GothicNightmares]

Yo op... you ask why I am not happy? Here is why .... my "FUN" is gone. whatever fun you are having.. I am jealous of.

 

It literally is that @(*()$ simple dip F***.

[-Sandman]

3 minutes ago, GothicNightmares said:

Yo op... you ask why I am not happy? Here is why .... my "FUN" is gone. whatever fun you are having.. I am jealous of.

 

My fun has been slowly dwindling over the last year. 

[Knight_Ex]

Its all about making them dollars, you can throw the passion and love of the game crap out the window, what this boiled down to was reducing the player gains to force them to pressure more store bought items, make it easier to get prime items with the new void, flood the trade market with low priced items, reduce the plat gains and force more people to purchase plat from the store,   reduce overall credit rewards so that people will need to purchase a booster from the store 7 days- 80p, or deal with the increased grind....these of course are my own opinions, but don't try to sell me the load that the developers are only doing this to provide something fresh and enjoyable, in the end its whatever can produce the most sale gains.

[Omnimorph]

I think the devs understand well enough that there's a lot of love for the game, and most criticism, even when a bit overdone in the heat of the moment, is meant well.  Often it's overheated precisely because people have genuine fear that some given tweak or new direction is wrong, in the sense of likely to lead the game to be less successful than it deserves to be.

But yeah, moderation is always something we should strive for.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

9 hours ago, JRMC said:

The developers worked vigorously and tirelessly, even through the late hours of the dead of the night, to provide their community with something fresh and enjoyable. A change in the pace of the game and improved features. They are willing to combat exhaustion to be able to keep a flow of content. I have never seen such developers hard at work in my entire life. Their passion for their project is beyond unimaginable. They try their best to appeal to all, whether it be the players or the consumers by listening to feedback and adapting around it. It's not every developer that cares to do so. In this day and age, it's not every developer that commits. The money speaks louder than words, unfortunately.

The reception of the community was simply degrading and toxic at best, as per usual. Why am I not surprised? Some players disliked one aspect of the update and demanded it to be reverted back to its original state. Change is something we're inherently afraid of. It's one of the most common fears but nothing prejudicial. The problem is those kind of people will not adapt to new situations because of their fears and they become blind to the advantages of said situations.

What really upsets me is that this has been going for as long as I can remember. A new major update hits our games and there's an outburst of enraged community members and severely heated discussions. This game has the massive support of the developers and yet, it's always criticized for trying to evolve past their roots and improve it wherever possible. In the long-run, however, issues arise every so often but even then, there is a constant need to fix them. Sometimes soon, sometimes late. I admit it but no one is perfect and they are certainly not machines. They're human beings, like you and I, and I think many people fail to realize that.

 

My appeal to the community is that feedback should be provided with thought and understanding. We work together best if we can discuss ideas in a civilized manner, instead of demanding changes because it's not up to par or it simply doesn't meet the players standards. Can you imagine if the developers didn't care at all? That's a very common case, regrettably. It's today's gaming market. - But Digital Extremes can and will for us, not for them. That, alone, fills me with glee, knowing they're more passionate about their project rather than the money they could possibly vacuum out of our wallets, as it is the case with many degenerate companies.

Please stop and take your time to think and keep this topic as humane and civilized as possible, otherwise it would only prove my point from the very beginning and I have written an appeal to no avail.

DE hard work, we all agree.

But i hate Nullifiers.

[BAD9eR]

aaaaaaaand out come the whiteknights  xD 

[DEATHLOK]

LOL. Yes.

[BAD9eR]

9 hours ago, Beggining said:

Today's update brought a lot of big changes, so of course jimmies are going to be rustled - some people have expectations, while others are used to the old things. (Personally, I think the new starchart could benefit from bigger markers; my general reaction was "whoaaa.." and "whuh?")

 

But hey, if it's any consolation, I haven't heard anyone complaining about dem cats :D

they are bad , just like fairy frames (what the hell they have to do with space ninjas i dont know ) mutts were weeaboo rubbish but the cats take the piss  so much weeaboo in wf now.  so now you have heard someone complain about catbrows ( crapbrows ) ;) 

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by BAD9eR
not finished