[spoiler] I don't know if I can trust Lotus

[DefekteDelfin]

Sure ignore all my points.

But what are you talking about with establishing a stable rule? This is the state of the game. A 3 faction fight with the occasional incident of Corrupted or Sentient conflicts occuring.

Please just stop. You clearly

A) never read up on lore and just hate the Lotus because you can.

B)Ignore most of the good points brought up.

At this point, you're doing nothing but fuel this pointless thread that has been debated time and time again for god knows the ?th time now.

[SeaUrchins]

Talking about trust in Lotus is like talking about trust in UI. It has absolutely no impact on the game whether you trust her on not, she has been a permanent part of the UI, notifying you about stuff that happens.

Now, from the game perspective, as Tenno you have no choice but to trust her because 

Spoiler

you are merely a kid who has been always unquestionably obeying the authorities, be it your parents, your Tenno commanders, whatever.

Lastly the trust in Lotus is irrelevant as it has completely no impact on the game. There are no choices after all.

[WhiteDagger]

6 minutes ago, Teloch said:

Well, that's the natural behavioral line of those who are thirsty for power. 

But what is more interesting is the fact that the state of force vacuum can't exist forever. That makes me wonder if DE would ever move the plot in the direction of establishing the stable rule and order.

I thin the state which we strive to create is where there isn't a singular power that controls the whole system but several equal power ruling over. This is more functioning than the orokin system because when the orokin leadership fell the entire empire crumbled leaving only chaos behind, but if in the present a faction lost its leaders the other simply devours it shifting it into another system but wont leave as much caos.

[Volkovyi]

3 hours ago, CTanGod said:

If we do get a choice I'm gonna go with Stalker! All Stalker wants is to free his Warframe brothers and sisters from the grasp of the Lotus and the Operators! (might not be true but I want to believe so!)

Well said my man, I am on the same page. The game is called Warframe, we play the Warframes, I am all for Warframe rights. The first chance I get I am leaving the Lotus and the children behind!

The Lotus used to be a neutral game guide for the player - but since the Second Dream she's inserted herself into the player's affairs too closely and is living out some kind of mother's anxiety through the children. That is so creepy, as if she is forcing herself onto us to be a mother.

For about three years before then, we as Warframes followed her blindly, it was the Warframes going into battle and dying for the sake of this "balance" she spoke of. During the "Gradivus Dilemna" she told us to go save our Warframes from the Zanuka Project and in doing so we put at risk civilian lives in the wake of Grineer Expansion to save a few Warframes that in the end are tools - while the real Tenno were locked safely away in the moon. So then, she risked civilian lives for nothing? But when the time comes to finally meet her in person, the Lotus walks by the injured Warframe on the ground to go speak to some child we've never seen before. That visual struck me as a powerful visual story element, at least to me. That she cares not for our Warframes and only for her surrogate children. I believe she doesn't even care for balance or order, she just wants to play mother.

It felt really wrong how she was talking to the child saying, "this is who you really are" and all I can think is that, no? I am behind you on the ground with a sword in my chest and you're talking to a potatoe-faced child?

[SeaUrchins]

What really makes me giggle is that when speaking about mother-child relation you always imply the human relations, though Lotus is not a human and we have no idea what does mother-child relation imply when it comes to sentients. I mean they are different species. Take cats for example, a female cat sometimes eats her own kittens, baby spiders sometimes eat their mother, without any information about the nature of mother-child relationship among sentients it is ludicrous to assume they are the same as between the humans.

Edited July 14, 2016 by SeaUrchins
my grammar is weak today

[Teloch]

47 minutes ago, DefekteDelfin said:

Sure ignore all my points.

But what are you talking about with establishing a stable rule? This is the state of the game. A 3 faction fight with the occasional incident of Corrupted or Sentient conflicts occuring.

Please just stop. You clearly

A) never read up on lore and just hate the Lotus because you can.

B)Ignore most of the good points brought up.

At this point, you're doing nothing but fuel this pointless thread that has been debated time and time again for god knows the ?th time now.

 

 

 

 

Your only point is that teeno just accurately murdered the "cancer cells" that orokin were and went to sleep cause "our job is done", since there were no major consequences. 
From what I read, things went especially ugly as soon as the rebel happened, but you say as if nothing had happened.

I do not clinically hate lotus at this point. Disrespectful? Yes, I don't respect traitors. Suspicious? Yes, I'd prefer truth instead of "forced revelations" Hateful? Not sure yet. Need more lore to settle that.

I assume that with the lore updates my views may or may not change.

32 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said:

What really makes me giggle is that when speaking about mother-child relation you always imply the human relations, though Lotus is not a human and we have no idea what does mother-child relation implies when it comes to sentients. I mean they are different species. Take cats for example, a female cat sometimes eats her own kittens, baby spiders sometimes eat their mother, without any information about the nature of mother-child relationship among sentients it is ludicrous to assume they are the same as between the humans.

 

 

 

 

I would give you a cookie for this interesting point if only I could.

38 minutes ago, Volkovyi said:

Well said my man, I am on the same page. The game is called Warframe, we play the Warframes, I am all for Warframe rights. The first chance I get I am leaving the Lotus and the children behind!

The Lotus used to be a neutral game guide for the player - but since the Second Dream she's inserted herself into the player's affairs too closely and is living out some kind of mother's anxiety through the children. That is so creepy, as if she is forcing herself onto us to be a mother.

For about three years before then, we as Warframes followed her blindly, it was the Warframes going into battle and dying for the sake of this "balance" she spoke of. During the "Gradivus Dilemna" she told us to go save our Warframes from the Zanuka Project and in doing so we put at risk civilian lives in the wake of Grineer Expansion to save a few Warframes that in the end are tools - while the real Tenno were locked safely away in the moon. So then, she risked civilian lives for nothing? But when the time comes to finally meet her in person, the Lotus walks by the injured Warframe on the ground to go speak to some child we've never seen before. That visual struck me as a powerful visual story element, at least to me. That she cares not for our Warframes and only for her surrogate children. I believe she doesn't even care for balance or order, she just wants to play mother.

It felt really wrong how she was talking to the child saying, "this is who you really are" and all I can think is that, no? I am behind you on the ground with a sword in my chest and you're talking to a potatoe-faced child?

 

 

 

 

Alas, DE put us in the skin of those kids. Warframes are expandable tools, nothing more (or are they?).

Edited July 14, 2016 by Teloch

[Teshin_Dax]

4 hours ago, ArionLightning said:

I cannot avoid keeping an eye on Lotus after all.  Its true she provides as much support as she can but... she is still a sentient. A sentient designed for sabotage. I wonder if she has some kind of terrible secret for us, waiting for the right moment and then hit us..... as she did before against orokins.

Looking at war within teaser... It gives me a bad feeling about this.  Will we have to make a choice in future between Lotus and another thing?

If we get a choice .. i hope so

[(XBOX)paul54734]

We need space dad! where is steve shin prime? i am lost in the world!

[Minion135]

3 hours ago, VampirePirate said:

Lotus is a puppet, made to believe that abandoning her kind was her idea.  In actuality, she is a sleeper agent that is unknowingly weakening the major powers of the Origin System, and this is to pave the way for the Sentients to finally invade the System and obliterate all possible opposition.  Tenno are ignorant, waking up from sleep and remembering little and knowing nothing.  They are weapons wielded by the Lotus for more traitorous actions and duplicity, just like back in the Orokin days.  History is disastrously repeating itself and not one can see all of this coming except Teshin (or however you spell his name).  However, no one listens to him, thinking his is some old fool that is too wrapped up in the ways of the past.

That makes no sense. She already was a sleeper agent for the Sentients when she infiltrated the Orokin and had the Tenno kill them. Unless you're suggesting she's some kind of double sleeper agent? That would still make no sense, though, because if she was sent to destroy all order and everyone tied to the Orokin, such as the Tenno, she could have accomplished it when she was originally on her mission with ease. She willingly chose to reject doing exactly what you're saying she is now doing, in the past.

[Arkvold]

13 hours ago, ArionLightning said:

I cannot avoid keeping an eye on Lotus after all.  Its true she provides as much support as she can but... she is still a sentient. A sentient designed for sabotage. I wonder if she has some kind of terrible secret for us, waiting for the right moment and then hit us..... as she did before against orokins.

Let's look at the whole history here.  It's true that the Lotus gave us the means, but were we really duped or misled when we Tenno killed the Orokin?  Or would it just have happened anyway?

First, there was the Zariman incident.  All of us were loaded on a ship, sent into the void, and when we didn't come back on the other end of the rail, no investigation was launched.  We were just written off as dead.  That would be strike #1.

Then, when we finally did come back, alone, scared, and completely without guidance (all the adults were gone, we had to fend for ourselves in the void, and it changed us in the doing!), what did the Orokin do?  Lock us up in cages and have us experimented upon.  Strike #2 right here.

So hey, they've got a bunch of kids with freaky powers locked up in boxes, and our powers just so happen to be the one thing the Sentient can't defend against.  What do they do with us?  Put us to sleep in sensory deprivation, and stick our minds into the Warframes.  Now yes, I realize that this was partially done for our own protection, because apparently our powers do terrible things to us if used unchecked, but there's still the fact that we're literally child soldiers here.  If that ain't strike #3 I don't know what is.

But okay, let's give the Orokin the benefit of the doubt.  There was a war against an implacable, inimical foe that wanted nothing less than complete genocide of humanity.  Hek, two of them if you count both the Infested and the Sentient.  So yeah, maybe the above was justified.

Then they went and killed our first adoptive mother, Margulis.  And why?  Because she dared to care about us as more than just tools and weapons.  They called her a 'heretic.'  They called her 'profane.'  They called us 'monsters' and 'demons.'  All because we didn't fit into their neat, narrow-as-a-MOA's-ankle definition of what an Orokin should be.  Even as they publicly hailed us as heroes, draping us in silks, beating those ramn naga drums to hail our victories, we were prisoners and aberrations in their eyes.  And when somebody near and dear to us decided to call them out on their hypocrisy, they executed her.  Out of hand, as if she was nothing.

So yeah, no.  I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Orokin.  Sure, yeah, the Lotus is a Sentient.  Sure, she was sent here to wipe out the Orokin.  And she pretty much did in any meaningful capacity.  All she had to do was point out just how terribly they'd been treating us, and what they did to our first adoptive mother, and we did the rest!  In one fell swoop, we obliterated the Orokin's ruling class, leaving nothing but their merchants, laborers, and slaves behind.

Keep this in mind, though - ever since Margulis was executed, she's been the one being willing to step up and be a parent for us.  She's the one being willing to accept us for who we are and what we are, rather than just what we can do for her.  She threw away her old name and identity just so that she could care for us.  She gave us direction and purpose, and an outlet by which to train our abilities in relative safety - by ensuring that the Grineer and the Corpus can't pick up where the Orokin left off, and that the Infestation never grows out-of-hand and extinguishes humanity.

And you know what?  She doesn't demand that we do it, either.  She offers us the opportunity, collecting, collating, and disseminating the intelligence we gather, and using it to provide us information on missions that we can undertake, of our own volition, to further the cause.  Everything we do, we choose to do.  She just points out opportunities to do so.  One of the first things she told me, when I was freed of Vor's Ascaris, was that "I was free to wage this war as I saw fit."

Not only does she give us purpose and opportunity, but she also gives us the freedom to pursue, or not pursue, that opportunity as we wish.  Did the Orokin ever do that?  HEK NO they didn't!

So I'm inclined to trust her.  If she wanted to really ruin us, she had plenty of opportunity before now.  I mean, really, she didn't even have to wake us back up after we were put in stasis.  She could've just let us be taken by the Grineer and turned into their obedient little Ascaris-driven slaves, to be used as soldiers and have our DNA harvested to refresh their cloning banks.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Arkvold

[Kronxito]

Ummmmm..... Before the release of the war within I will take my codex scanner and take everything. Want to read as much as possible of the lore. Just bought 7000 codex scanner charges xDDD. Here I go...

Edited July 14, 2016 by ArionLightning

[VampirePirate]

8 minutes ago, Minion135 said:

That makes no sense. She already was a sleeper agent for the Sentients when she infiltrated the Orokin and had the Tenno kill them. Unless you're suggesting she's some kind of double sleeper agent? That would still make no sense, though, because if she was sent to destroy all order and everyone tied to the Orokin, such as the Tenno, she could have accomplished it when she was originally on her mission with ease. She willingly chose to reject doing exactly what you're saying she is now doing, in the past.

I see you didn't read what I typed at all.   That may be why things don't make sense to you.

I never said anything you mentioned here.

[Minion135]

Just now, VampirePirate said:

I see you didn't read what I typed at all.   That may be why things don't make sense to you.

I never said anything you mentioned here.

You are quoted in my above post, and my responses are theoretical outcomes of what you proposed. Now you see how what you suggested makes no sense.

[Serafim_94]

You know, after playing character that thinks "honorable fight" mostly includes running around invisible while sadistically murdering unsuspecting enemies, and forcing them to violently beat each other to death with sticks - I'm totally OK with having backstabbing traitorous leader. Fits right in.

And while it's true that Tenno and co destroyed previous human civilization, it was kind of a cesspool. Do Sands of Inaros to see what exactly was destroyed. And it's not like current state is better - we have megacorporation trying to take over system, and bunch of cruel enslaving savages. At least this time we work to keep them in check. Human civilization is much bigger than Corpus and Greneer.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Serafim_94

[VampirePirate]

1 minute ago, Minion135 said:

You are quoted in my above post, and my responses are theoretical outcomes of what you proposed. Now you see how what you suggested makes no sense.

No.  I only see that you didn't read or understand what i typed, even with the words quoted.

(At this point i'm just going to ignore your arguments.)

Edited July 14, 2016 by VampirePirate

[Minion135]

1 minute ago, VampirePirate said:

No.  I only see that you didn't read or understand what i typed, even with the words quoted.

(At this point i'm just going to ignore your arguments.)

"Lotus is a puppet, made to believe that abandoning her kind was her idea.  In actuality, she is a sleeper agent that is unknowingly weakening the major powers of the Origin System, and this is to pave the way for the Sentients to finally invade the System and obliterate all possible opposition."

She already was a sleeper agent in the ancient Orokin era who was supposed to do just that. SHE REJECTED THAT MISSION ALREADY. If she had completed it in the past, the Sentients would have already wiped everything out by now. Please actually read what you wrote and what I responded with. You present an illogical theory on what Lotus is doing, because if what she is here for is the destruction of all life in the Origin system, she would have already completed it without ever sending us into stasis. The Tenno, Corpus, Grineer, and everyone else would already be dead.

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

i just generally never liked the lotus as a character and if given the option will definitely jump ship to any other option. 

Lotus thanks im well aware the life support is getting low there is 7 of the things ,

The moment she was like yeah these are my children now i was like. wut no ,No thank you ....ill be over here with this teshin guy at least he....now he is bad???

[BiancaRoughfin]

5 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

He wants us dead, nothing more.

He hates us for killing the Orokin leaders which ruined his cushy life.

We didnt kill the Orokin leaders or any Orokin at all, the Sentients did.

MY THEORIES:
Balas (Stalker/Shadow) hates us because like the Orokin, he considered the Tenno children abominations and we hurt his fiancée Margulis . A small accident involving a Tenno who didnt know how to control his powers and ended up wounding and deforming her face and that struck greater hate on him against us because the Orokin were perfectionists.

The Kurias speak of a figure with two heads in one body, many of us suspect it as referring to the Grineer Queens. What if it speaks of the Lotus?

Margulis was sentenced to death by the Orokin council for helping the Tenno Children, what if Natah (The Sentient) became one with Margulis in her body to hide her self from Hunhow, to save Margulis and protect the Tenno children? This would explain why the Lotus uses that Mask, as it could be hiding the wounds caused by the Tenno Child.

Edited July 14, 2016 by BiancaRoughfin

[Minion135]

14 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

We didnt kill the Orokin leaders or any Orokin at all, the Sentients did.

MY THEORIES:
Balas (Stalker/Shadow) hates us because like the Orokin, he considered the Tenno children abominations and we hurt his fiancée Margulis . A small accident involving a Tenno who didnt know how to control his powers and ended up wounding and deforming her face and that struck greater hate on him against us because the Orokin were perfectionists.

The Kurias speak of a figure with two heads in one body, many of us suspect it as referring to the Grineer Queens. What if it speaks of the Lotus?

Margulis was sentenced to death by the Orokin council for helping the Tenno Children, what if Natah (The Sentient) became one with Margulis in her body to hide her self from Hunhow, to save Margulis and protect the Tenno children? This would explain why the Lotus uses that Mask, as it could be hiding the wounds caused by the Tenno Child.

The Tenno did kill the Orokin. After the war with the Sentients was done, the Tenno then eradicated the Orokin leadership (and probably most of the other Orokin, minus the Corpus, if not all). Also, speculating that the Stalker is Margulis' fiancee is a jump, I think. The Tenno are all children, after all. The Stalker also seems more like a Specter, as well. That is, if Specters of the Rail is any indication. The Specters in the junctions speak and act in an extremely similar manner to the Stalker and his disciples, so I'm inclined to lean to that.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Minion135

[PoobahTheGrand]

If ArionLightning don't trust ya he gonna shoot ya *Future voice*

[Unus]

In the end, digitally speaking, I owe my life to the Lotus. She pulled me outta my tube even when she could have just ignored yet another Tenno loss. She could have let the Stalker end me, yet, she came to my aid, if not physically, then by proxy. She has kept me alive for to long and equipped with to much of an Arsenal for me to simply put a blade in her plasti-flesh innards on a whim.

As a final nail in the coffin, with my main supplier of resources and intelligence gone, who do I turn to? The Corpus to be chopped up for their Eximi projects? The Grineer to be rendered a protein slurry for some Drahk? The Corrupted to be a slave? Sucide by Infested? Let the Stalker have my head once and for all?

    There is no one else in Sol-Origin capable of supporting my needs. Therefore, in the interests of living to see another day, I choose the Lotus,because the Lotus chose me.

[(PSN)IroncladBomber]

Why all the Lotus hate? Do you think any of the other factions by themselves have a better way to go about it? The Orokin were corrupt, they mistreated their subjects. In the end, everything they did failed. The Infestation? A Bio-Weapon they built that backfired in the worst way. The Sentient? Terraforming drones that were sent to the Tau System, gained sentience and tried to destroy them. The Tenno? Children whom were experimented on, forced to become weapons.

The only reason the Empire collapsed wasn't because the Tenno killed the Upper Echelon of their Society. The Empire was "Too Big to Fail" and had no clear lines of Succession. So when their Ruling Caste was destroyed, the others were thrown into disarray. At the same time the Grineer were rebelling, and the Corpus were just getting a foot hold, by raking in the spoils of the War.

Now, did the Lotus manipulate the Tenno to destroy the Orokin Emperors? Probably, either through mental manipulation, or by playing on their senses of Honor to destroy those whom were truly corrupted. Now, afterwards she was supposed to destroy us. But she didn't. She betrayed her own kind to spare us. Did she pity us? Did she just want children of her own? Probably. Now, after the fall of the Empire, why did the Tenno sleep? Because in the wake of the Chaos she brought, it was our best chance for survival.

The Tenno would not have been able to take over the Empire. The average person was probably scared witless by the very thought of the Tenno, not to mention what they had just done to their rulers. Also, the Tenno are a Warrior Society, and civilizations that are ruled by a Warrior caste, are always doomed to fail. Because once the Tenno destroyed the Grinner Uprising, eradicated the Infestation, and kept the Corpus in line. Whom would be left for them to fight? Warriors will always find a fight, and the only enemy left to fight would be themselves, and with or without the Lotus. The Tenno would have waged war upon themselves.

Fast Forward to today, the Tenno are still split slightly, though working together for their common goal. Through the various Syndicates, they have different methods, but ultimately similar goals, the Lotus simply keeps the Information flowing, and sometimes has us eliminate threats that are growing out of Control. Who else could do that. Without her, the Syndicates would tear each other apart, and the Tenno might join in and fight for their Syndicates. 

What about Teshin? Well what makes you think that he would be a better guide than the Lotus? 

[ragingdeamon]

10 hours ago, Teloch said:

*grins devilishly* You, my naive friend, should recollect Ordises memory fragments. It would give you a good reason to change your views on cephalons nature.

oh I did. and I know that they are bound. they are not aware of themselves as sentients are. the only reason Ordis is remembering is because he has passed a massive amount of time outside of orokin supervision. 

the only reason why they sent sentients to Tau is because they were becoming desperate. the Sentients could easily be killed at the time, while Cephalons aren't. 

and as far as we know, Cephalons aren't living and cannot evolve or make sure the planet is completely habitable for a human being, while Sentients were designed to do so.

Edited July 14, 2016 by ragingdeamon

[MihariofMabinogi]

8 hours ago, Arkvold said:

Let's look at the whole history here.  It's true that the Lotus gave us the means, but were we really duped or misled when we Tenno killed the Orokin?  Or would it just have happened anyway?

First, there was the Zariman incident.  All of us were loaded on a ship, sent into the void, and when we didn't come back on the other end of the rail, no investigation was launched.  We were just written off as dead.  That would be strike #1.

Then, when we finally did come back, alone, scared, and completely without guidance (all the adults were gone, we had to fend for ourselves in the void, and it changed us in the doing!), what did the Orokin do?  Lock us up in cages and have us experimented upon.  Strike #2 right here.

So hey, they've got a bunch of kids with freaky powers locked up in boxes, and our powers just so happen to be the one thing the Sentient can't defend against.  What do they do with us?  Put us to sleep in sensory deprivation, and stick our minds into the Warframes.  Now yes, I realize that this was partially done for our own protection, because apparently our powers do terrible things to us if used unchecked, but there's still the fact that we're literally child soldiers here.  If that ain't strike #3 I don't know what is.

But okay, let's give the Orokin the benefit of the doubt.  There was a war against an implacable, inimical foe that wanted nothing less than complete genocide of humanity.  Hek, two of them if you count both the Infested and the Sentient.  So yeah, maybe the above was justified.

Then they went and killed our first adoptive mother, Margulis.  And why?  Because she dared to care about us as more than just tools and weapons.  They called her a 'heretic.'  They called her 'profane.'  They called us 'monsters' and 'demons.'  All because we didn't fit into their neat, narrow-as-a-MOA's-ankle definition of what an Orokin should be.  Even as they publicly hailed us as heroes, draping us in silks, beating those ramn naga drums to hail our victories, we were prisoners and aberrations in their eyes.  And when somebody near and dear to us decided to call them out on their hypocrisy, they executed her.  Out of hand, as if she was nothing.

So yeah, no.  I don't have a lot of sympathy for the Orokin.  Sure, yeah, the Lotus is a Sentient.  Sure, she was sent here to wipe out the Orokin.  And she pretty much did in any meaningful capacity.  All she had to do was point out just how terribly they'd been treating us, and what they did to our first adoptive mother, and we did the rest!  In one fell swoop, we obliterated the Orokin's ruling class, leaving nothing but their merchants, laborers, and slaves behind.

Keep this in mind, though - ever since Margulis was executed, she's been the one being willing to step up and be a parent for us.  She's the one being willing to accept us for who we are and what we are, rather than just what we can do for her.  She threw away her old name and identity just so that she could care for us.  She gave us direction and purpose, and an outlet by which to train our abilities in relative safety - by ensuring that the Grineer and the Corpus can't pick up where the Orokin left off, and that the Infestation never grows out-of-hand and extinguishes humanity.

And you know what?  She doesn't demand that we do it, either.  She offers us the opportunity, collecting, collating, and disseminating the intelligence we gather, and using it to provide us information on missions that we can undertake, of our own volition, to further the cause.  Everything we do, we choose to do.  She just points out opportunities to do so.  One of the first things she told me, when I was freed of Vor's Ascaris, was that "I was free to wage this war as I saw fit."

Not only does she give us purpose and opportunity, but she also gives us the freedom to pursue, or not pursue, that opportunity as we wish.  Did the Orokin ever do that?  HEK NO they didn't!

So I'm inclined to trust her.  If she wanted to really ruin us, she had plenty of opportunity before now.  I mean, really, she didn't even have to wake us back up after we were put in stasis.  She could've just let us be taken by the Grineer and turned into their obedient little Ascaris-driven slaves, to be used as soldiers and have our DNA harvested to refresh their cloning banks.

Let's not forget that, apparently during the aforementioned wars, Tenno were apparently riding inside their warframes instead of our minds being stuck in them.

 

Mirage's original tenno died in one of those wars, and did the Orokin care? Of course not. Her warframe's parts were scattered throughout the universe, left to rot on infested ships, without any sort of formality. The only one who mourned her death was The Lotus.

Edited July 14, 2016 by MihariofMabinogi

[Urlan]

On 7/14/2016 at 8:28 AM, SeaUrchins said:

What really makes me giggle is that when speaking about mother-child relation you always imply the human relations, though Lotus is not a human and we have no idea what does mother-child relation imply when it comes to sentients. I mean they are different species. Take cats for example, a female cat sometimes eats her own kittens, baby spiders sometimes eat their mother, without any information about the nature of mother-child relationship among sentients it is ludicrous to assume they are the same as between the humans.

There is no difference with your cat and spider example to humans. Postpartum Depression is what we call it; when the mother has feelings of cutting her loses or that the baby is too much of a drain on resources they will often kill the child and many species eat the child to reabsorb lost resources. The lack of such cannibalism in human society is more of a societal versus nature type deal though mind that cannibalism is not overly common in apes like us in the first place unlike with many female spiders. Its perfectly understandable though to push human expectations onto other animals and even objects as it gives us a frame of reference. Baby spiders sometimes eat their mother yes, but more often than not after the rigors of birthing the spiderlings and protecting them many female spiders will kill more of their own children in a feeding spree than the spiderlings' next closest predators. This ties back into the mother not thinking the spawn will survive and deciding to recoup loses. Oddly, it is considered the same reason why some males tend to leave the female mate and their babies before or right after the birth to avoid such a biological response and ideally preserve more young from both competition and becoming yet another familial adult's snack.

Outside of mother cats sometimes eating their young recently after pregnancy, cats are well known not to be cannibalistic though like many creatures, they can be forced. Male cats or Toms, have been known to kill young kittens from other parentage but will very rarely eat them though as said, the mother will often do so if the kill is fresh to a recent pregnancy and food is scarce for the young or the location is deemed unsafe for long term habitation. What I guess I am saying is don't disappoint your mothers.

On 7/14/2016 at 5:34 PM, MihariofMabinogi said:

Let's not forget that, apparently during the aforementioned wars, Tenno were apparently riding inside their warframes instead of our minds being stuck in them.

 

Mirage's original tenno died in one of those wars, and did the Orokin care? Of course not. Her warframe's parts were scattered throughout the universe, left to rot on infested ships, without any sort of formality. The only one who mourned her death was The Lotus.

We don't know that the Mirage operator was in the Mirage warframe. Just that the operator of that Mirage died with the warframe's complete disintegration. Its possibly due to fatal feedback versus physical proximity. It is possible however that some warframes were made into exosuits like much of the empire was told they were; if so, it is likely that said Mirage could have been one of these odd models and the warframe's operator killed or synthesis scanned perhaps in such a state.