Why did Valkyr get nerfed?

[Tzolkat]

People were apparently breaking the game with her ult? From my perspective her kit is as broken now as it ever was, only now it isn't even fun anymore. It's split right down the middle between warcry and hysteria, with her other abilities being inconsequential. With Valkyr you now have to choose which of those two abilities you want to use. If you want to use both for what little synergies they had, you're in for a rough time late-game.

I liked the old, non-channeled Hysteria. Activate it in a big swarm of enemies, run around killing, go back to safety to let it end and resume gunplay. No constant worrying about energy leeches and the myriad other things that can cause her to instantly kill herself. I liked the early channeled version even more (Obviously. Who wouldn't want that level of survivability when rare/event mods are at stake? I've come to the conclusion that 'git gud' really mostly means 'git mods'.), and I learned a lot about the game with it. I settled on a middle-of-the-road build that has weathered many subsequent nerfs, and invested several forma. She's still very powerful, but I can't synergize hysteria with warcry like I once did, because there isn't enough energy to sustain them like that.

I don't like that hysteria is now so horribly dependent on an energy pool that just about everything seems to have its fingers in. I don't even bother bringing Valkyr to ODS because she's melee-focused, and that means getting all your energy sucked away in less than a second by literally everything that moves because of all the disruptors wandering around.

I have suggested health drain along with the original energy drain so that you have to keep killing. I didn't contest that leeches and anything near a disruptor can eat her energy and how that mechanic particularly stacks the odds against melee frames. I suggested lots of other balances. Health drain even became a sort of consensus. But instead of listening, DE made the energy crisis for late-game Valkyr even worse. Not cool. I'd take a nerf to hysteria's invulnerability itself before I would live with Valkyr as she currently is. And before you condescend to me about warcry builds, I choose not to use one, because the mechanics of it aren't fun to me, and in all honesty most of what makes it good is in your melee weapon. At that point, why even bother taking Valkyr when you can take something else with a much more useful kit? Maybe something with some decent crowd control?

Essentially, my point is this. If you read nothing else about my post, read this part: Valkyr desperately needs a rework of the same caliber as the one Volt was given. Her kit is now fubar. Please replace the unit.

[(PSN)vamp6x6x6x]

52 minutes ago, -Voltage- said:

o good, it's a crutch anyway, anyone who NEEDS to use it is sad IMO. I'm glad it's nerfed.

I actually find that I like using her with a good melee weapon and only go into Hysteria. I like her new how risk high reward playstyle also. I feel like people aren't giving her after rework a real chance, and are just looking for the next "god mode" frame.

[Rakosta_Kai]

43 minutes ago, Tzolkat said:

Valkyr desperately needs a rework of the same caliber as the one Volt was given. Her kit is now fubar. Please replace the unit.

Don't get your hopes up...Valkyr's state (which isn't "fubar" even now) is a direct result of player requests.

Folks asked for the extra power in Hysteria... Got it.... and the skill got changed to account for it.

Disruptors, Leeches, etc are static challenges as anyone in melee range/aura range have to deal with them.

Asserting that Valkyr should enjoy extra insulation from them creates an entirely different discussion regarding parity. 

[ravend]

1 hour ago, Heckzu said:

Well, if the general consensus is that a skill is op, and those that argue that it isn't op can't provide a substantial counterargument (energy leeches and nullifiers screw over all warframes so it isn't a logical argument to use that to defend hysteria), then it becomes apparent that it's an issue and needs to be dealt with.

I agree, but it was dealt alittle too harshly. I was fine with the change up to the last one. The aura is fine, the increasing aura isnt. Both warcry and hysteria have the same problem, they need kills to keep the up/incheck. 

[dayvekeem]

17 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Don't get your hopes up...Valkyr's state (which isn't "fubar" even now) is a direct result of player requests.

Folks asked for the extra power in Hysteria... Got it.... and the skill got changed to account for it.

Disruptors, Leeches, etc are static challenges as anyone in melee range/aura range have to deal with them.

Asserting that Valkyr should enjoy extra insulation from them creates an entirely different discussion regarding parity. 

I wouldn't call Disruptors and Leeches as just "static challenges"... They basically make you quit because it is IMPOSSIBLE... not even slightly possible. Just straight up IMPOSSIBLE because the moment you are in range to do MELEE, you are drained. Which means no Life Strike (if equipped) and no Hysteria, so no life regen, so dead.

I personally don't mind Valk's changes. They are manageable. But the disruptors are a whole other ball game...

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

3 hours ago, Vyra said:

useless against grineer at least... grineer kill you when you try to approach them with melee
do you even play warframe these days?

fk even lvl 50 grineer eat down armor in 1 shot...

as i said put up a video of todays gameplay with valkyr.. do a 40 minute lvl 80-120 survival not using hysteria with valkyr...then we talk again.

uhm I've got to like 2-3'ish hours on her warcry build...... (but I had naramon in the solo)

so without she melts really fast, as in alot faster than chroma when you've a max warcry

[Tzolkat]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

Don't get your hopes up...Valkyr's state (which isn't "fubar" even now) is a direct result of player requests.

Folks asked for the extra power in Hysteria... Got it.... and the skill got changed to account for it.

Disruptors, Leeches, etc are static challenges as anyone in melee range/aura range have to deal with them.

Asserting that Valkyr should enjoy extra insulation from them creates an entirely different discussion regarding parity. 

Pardon? You're not making any sense considering the context of what I wrote. As far as this latest change being the 'direct result of player requests'. Which players? As far as I can tell, a large majority fell into two camps: change hysteria to drain health over time but keep everything else, or change hysteria by replacing invulnerability with 95% damage resistance. Nowhere, at least in the public part of the community, has anyone suggested insane energy drain from all sources as a 'solution'. If it was discussed, then DE did so only with people such as yourself.

I would argue that those so-called 'static' challenges' still disproportionately affect anything which is restricted to melee. Gunplay and non-channeled abilities are clearly at an advantage against those forces compared to melee and channeled. Valkyr is both, and the ability can kill her if she runs out of energy at the wrong time. That's a triple disadvantage. But, if you bothered to read, all that is tangent to my point. You see, a nerf to energy efficiency, specifically, on a channeled, melee-restricted ability which can cause self-kills if it runs out, snowballs and creates a MASSIVE disadvantage whenever those 'static' challenges appear. It's an obvious, glaring issue for anyone who actually plays Valkyr.

Do you see ANY other frame with a channeled ability that requires them to basically jump on top of an enemy? Because I don't. Exalted Turret doesn't require it, nor does Peacemaker, nor does World on Fire. You don't get to change the discussion to suit you. You don't get to tell Valkyr players that her kit isn't broken. Compare it to the kit of literally any other frame in the game, and you'll see just how gimped it is.

I'll say it again: Valkyr needs a Volt-class rework. Her kit is like an Excal without Exalted Blade. Anyone care for a Super Jump?

[(PSN)ThaHype1zReel]

Took me 6 Forma and an Exilus adapter to finally get her right.  I tried to ignore her nerf as if it didn't affect me and my gameplay.  However, in conjunction with Valkyr's nerf, Nullifier bubbles were also buffed, which make it impossible to melee bubbles whilst in Hysteria.  These days, I can't even look at her without shedding a tear (or two)...

[Kihana]

4 hours ago, Heckzu said:

I don't play Valkyr, but you keep insisting that Valkyr is only usable for her hysteria for some reason.

So here's some guy soloing T4 survival up till ~level 125 without using hysteria until his eternal war wasn't enough to tank level 128 or so heavy gunners: 

p.s. I believe this is pre nerf hysteria, but this person didn't need to use it at all until almost level 130, to prove my point of not needing hysteria for level 120 content.

That wasn't pre-nerf Hysteria. That was pre-buff Hysteria.

At the time, we still had the relatively poor movement in Hysteria given to Valkyr in update 14.0 (unique Hysteria animation set with no Hysteria coptering), but did not yet have the 17.5 update that made Valkyr's damage in Hysteria lethal at high levels (thanks to weapon mods affecting Hysteria).

Simply put, Warcry/Eternal War using Life Strike and no Hysteria was the only decent way to play a Valkyr, as you simply couldn't do enough damage to kill anything in Hysteria that you couldn't kill quicker with a blade or gun out of it. Hysteria was just a health return function for those without Life Strike, and a fellow player revival function for those with it. Which meant that Hysteria had limited use, and there were better frames for melee anyway. This is why she got the rework in 17.5, although people still complained about Hysteria making players invulnerable just as much before it.

The video you linked is actually one showing just how poor Hysteria was back then. The player was doing without it for a very good reason, and is likely a Valkyr fan rather than a meta jumping on a bandwagon.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Valkyr/Patch_History

If they are going to have Hysteria the way it is now, then the one change I would make is to remove the aura for damage when coming out of Hysteria. It was always there as the supposed downside to Hysteria (a totally ineffective one at that), but with the energy cost ramping up to 15 per second (unmodified), that is now a reasonable downside on it's own. You're already screwed at reasonable difficulty levels if you cop an energy drain. The aura just twists the knife after the fact.

Even as she is right now, she is streaks ahead of where she once was. But we are potentially back to there being better melee frames again.

[cookieknife]

6 hours ago, DxAdder said:

Well Mesa and Sayrn were nerfed already and they were making no progress on Ash so the came to the boards in mass telling everyone how Valkyr ruined there lives.. Pretty much the usual Propaganda that gets used everytime they want a nerf,

 

 

Saryn was NOT nerfed. And Mesa was buffed to @(*()$ hell recently so seriously don't say that

[cookieknife]

The high energy drain on hysteria is a very bad thing.... Atleast it should come slower

the damage on the other hand is a good change that was needed 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, dayvekeem said:

I wouldn't call Disruptors and Leeches as just "static challenges"... They basically make you quit because it is IMPOSSIBLE... not even slightly possible. Just straight up IMPOSSIBLE because the moment you are in range to do MELEE, you are drained. Which means no Life Strike (if equipped) and no Hysteria, so no life regen, so dead.

I personally don't mind Valk's changes. They are manageable. But the disruptors are a whole other ball game...

Yes, Static.

As in constant. Everyone is affected in the same way by those mobs. If you are opting to jump in with them, you face the same challenges everyone else does.

...That's the very definition of fair.

1 hour ago, Tzolkat said:

Pardon? You're not making any sense considering the context of what I wrote. As far as this latest change being the 'direct result of player requests'. Which players? As far as I can tell, a large majority fell into two camps: change hysteria to drain health over time but keep everything else, or change hysteria by replacing invulnerability with 95% damage resistance. Nowhere, at least in the public part of the community, has anyone suggested insane energy drain from all sources as a 'solution'. If it was discussed, then DE did so only with people such as yourself.

I would argue that those so-called 'static' challenges' still disproportionately affect anything which is restricted to melee. Gunplay and non-channeled abilities are clearly at an advantage against those forces compared to melee and channeled. Valkyr is both, and the ability can kill her if she runs out of energy at the wrong time. That's a triple disadvantage. But, if you bothered to read, all that is tangent to my point. You see, a nerf to energy efficiency, specifically, on a channeled, melee-restricted ability which can cause self-kills if it runs out, snowballs and creates a MASSIVE disadvantage whenever those 'static' challenges appear. It's an obvious, glaring issue for anyone who actually plays Valkyr.

Do you see ANY other frame with a channeled ability that requires them to basically jump on top of an enemy? Because I don't. Exalted Turret doesn't require it, nor does Peacemaker, nor does World on Fire. You don't get to change the discussion to suit you. You don't get to tell Valkyr players that her kit isn't broken. Compare it to the kit of literally any other frame in the game, and you'll see just how gimped it is.

I'll say it again: Valkyr needs a Volt-class rework. Her kit is like an Excal without Exalted Blade. Anyone care for a Super Jump?

I'm making a ton of sense... You merely lack the frame of reference to understand what I am telling you.

Players asked for the buff that ultimately got Hysteria's invincibility period changed.

They asked for it and they got it... Now you get to deal with the fall-out. DE didn't need to consult you on how they would go about making those changes, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't.

...It is what it is.

I would also remind you that while you are free to complain about the effects of Disruptors and the like, Valkyr is equipped to get as much space as she needs to deal with them.

...You are opting to use Hysteria as a solution in those instances.

That is, at best, a foolish option.

You have other options on Valkyr but choose Hysteria and get mad when it doesn't work out...OK. 

FYI, comparing Valkyr to classes that can actually take damage in a 1:1 ratio makes zero sense.

Like I said before... Don't get your hopes up about a re-work for Valkyr anytime soon.

You have to actually think and weigh the option of using Hysteria now and that was the point behind the ability to begin with.

 

[Tsunero]

Because a small minority was butthurt about it. I found perma Hysteria fun and enjoyed it greatly. Too bad it won't ever come back.

[Rakosta_Kai]

17 minutes ago, Momo93 said:

Because a small minority was butthurt about it. I found perma Hysteria fun and enjoyed it greatly. Too bad it won't ever come back.

Welcome to Warframe.

[Tsunero]

3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Welcome to Warframe.

Yeah, got used to it :DDDDDD. No fun allowed.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

Valkyr is still pretty tough. only difference is you need a little more emphasis on duration/efficiency and you have to reach quiet spots to deactivate without taking damage. otherwise she can still wipe the floor with just about any enemy at any level.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Because some people take issue with how you decide to play the game.  In general most people have a problem with frames being invulnerable as it "trivalizes" content.

But you can't bring that up when talking about other frames that do so.  Because you're just going to upset people.  Nevermind the fact that pre patch valkyr still had a difficult time in corpus missions.  And there were units in every faction that could take her out of hysteria.  I'm really not going to get into how fair she already was though.  Because it's beating a dead horse and what's done is done.

 

What I can tell you is that if you are someone who runs a high efficiency high duration valkyr the changes to her energy drain are really not impactful.  And since her damage is still acceptable this way with slide attacks and finishers being in her melee combo you still have access to old unlimited hysteria valkyr.  Really the nerf only effected people who went to the max possible damage you could with her hysteria or people who didn't optimize her mod wise.  Which is effectively less than half of the dedicated valkyr players anyway.

 

I'm personally using an unlimited hysteria build at the moment.  But as soon as I get eternal war i'll also have a warcry build.  And then maybe try to make a build that uses both for extended durations.

[Troll_Logic]

Short answer: Idiots thought staying invulnerable 100% of the time thought that made Valkyr OP. So they complained to make Valkyr's invulnerability able to be toggled. That finally maked Valkyr OP so DE rightfully nerfed her. 

[Tzolkat]

9 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

-snip-

Are you actually replying to what I said, or are you just making things up to argue against because you can't fathom the logic of what I'm saying?

Do you even play Valkyr? Have you tried playing her since Lunaro? I sincerely doubt you have.

You've been condescending and rude to everyone in this thread you've replied to, and I'm tired of it. We're done here. Do not say another word to me.

[JohnKable]

5 pages of discussion about hysteria nerf?

you can still keep perma hysteria even with bling rage maxed. the only spot i see i cant be in perma hysteria is with energy reduction sorties were you have a small energy pool (like 50ish unmodded) and rng sometimes drops no energy orbs for a while so you find yourself out of hysteria because of that.
In any other case hysteria is permanent and strong as before with just one extra condition: you have to keep killing fairly quickly or you wont keep up with the energy drain.

And if you plan to do a mission with reduced energy pool just switch to a build you fit a primed flow in and youre good to go.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Tzolkat said:

Are you actually replying to what I said, or are you just making things up to argue against because you can't fathom the logic of what I'm saying?

Do you even play Valkyr? Have you tried playing her since Lunaro? I sincerely doubt you have.

You've been condescending and rude to everyone in this thread you've replied to, and I'm tired of it. We're done here. Do not say another word to me.

If you didn't want a comment you should have refrained from another reply... You are welcome to place me on ignore if that makes your day easier though.

Clearly, I replied to what you had to say... You merely don't like the facts.

Yes, I've played Valkyr since the changes... But since I don't have to live in Hysteria (because I actually play the game instead of riding god-mode mechanics) I haven't noticed much difference aside from the need to turn it off in safe spots.

You, on the other hand, freely admit to treating the frame like a one-trick pony and are annoyed that the one trick isn't as easy to use as it used to be.

I hate it for ya... But that doesn't necessarily mean changes are in order.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lykaios_Xenidis]

On 27/7/2016 at 8:43 AM, NoLife said:

Wukong

All my Yes to this. Everybody says "Valkyr OP" when Defy it's even WORSE. Literal immortality and last time i've checked him, you still get the Rage mod effect working while using defy.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Lykaios_Xenidis

[ENGINEEEEER]

On 7/27/2016 at 3:03 AM, BlazerEraser said:

Wasn't here for this little event so just curious what the reasoning behind this was.

P.S: Inaros is twice as tanky as Valkyr ever was. Will he get nerfed too?

Edit: I got my answers at least, can a Moderator close this please? Thank you.

Why is everyone still beating this dead horse of a topic? OP said he got his answer, yet people sill keep answering endlessly. 

[DeFragMe]

39 minutes ago, ENGINEEEEER said:

Why is everyone still beating this dead horse of a topic? OP said he got his answer, yet people sill keep answering endlessly. 

As long as the topic is not closed, there always will be people talking even more... afterall... this is the general discussion section...

[Lhudge]

Wukong is more invincible than all with his 2