Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[Rebellis]

1 hour ago, hazerddex said:

maybe they are fading out because people are acaculy figuring out how to build nekyros just saying

I believe so.

From my own experience, as well as that from other veteran players, Nekros is super tanky and really really good right now with the correct build. Much better than before when he was just a desecrate2win frame.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Rebellis

[Eldritchsqueaker]

They still have monday to tweak him a bit, but yeah it is getting a little discouraging. Knowing how to build him and having the means to build him without being a long time player are two different things entirely. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, hazerddex said:

maybe they are fading out because people are acaculy figuring out how to build nekyros just saying

Or they switched to hydroid...

Considering that more people were throwing salt then anyone EVER actually played necros... what leaves us with one simple motive for all this fuss: the desecrate change.

Hardly anyone admitted that they wanted the lootbot back or that anyone ever abused him so random rant happened to make room for theyr dissapointment.

 

It's not like there ain't alternatives in the game tho...people move on to the next BS Meta, Threads fade out. That's how this Community works.

Edited August 20, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Snowbluff]

45 minutes ago, Rebellis said:

I believe so.

From my own experience, as well as that from other veteran players, Nekros is super tanky and really really good right now with the correct build. Much better than before when he was just a desecrate2win frame.

He was capable of being just as tanky before the nerf, it seems.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

   P. Flow, P. Continuity, Health Conversion, Creeping Terrify, Equilibrium, Vitality, Intensify, Despoil, Rejuvenation, and an exilus mod of whatever. 

To the main topic, i essencially run the same build. Difference: i use transient instead of intesify and overextendet instead of p Flow. You get enough Orbs to be stuffed with energy at all times anyways and the range is definitly worth it as you hardly ever actually hit 20 enemys with terrify.

 

To the health Decay: it's definitly Set to high (so was the duration to begin with...) but reasoned...especially with the new replacement mechanic but, as I mentioned in another Thread, not nessasary.

They could've just used ivaras Arrow concept offering: Teleport, Heal, replacement and recycling instead ...bound to a killing function using Soul Punch? leaving the players the choice how far they wanna carry theyr shadows instead of, ya know, enforcing just any Kind of recycling..... but Hey, DE is a company. Sounds like a typical Management decision to avoid repetative Content and instead aiming for new, innovative ideas, no matter how broken or bad they are, doesn't is?

[Gurpgork]

On 8/20/2016 at 8:20 AM, hazerddex said:

maybe they are fading out because people are acaculy figuring out how to build nekyros just saying

If it was like the Mag or Saryn reworks where their entire playstyle got turned upside down, then I'd agree with you. But all that happened is that Duration became more important to counteract the ridiculous health decay. Because even when you figure out how to build him, it doesn't change the fact that SotD was overall nerfed, it doesn't change that Terrify and Soul Punch still have significant shortcomings, and it certainly doesn't change the biggest flaws of the Warframe as a whole. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Gurpgork

[------Solo------]

3 hours ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

I'm sure something you like at one point will change and you will dislike it. 

No i will just move forward. Instead of being with the army of keyboard warriors.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

Speaking up is the only way things get fixed, and DE has shown they will fix things eventually. At least in cases like the twin basolk buffs and the split sword ones (even if the buffs to the stradavar failed to make it worth using). Complaining about people giving feedback is well frankly against the entire point of this subforum. Because you know, this is the feedback forum. It's for speaking up, whether DE will listen or not. Someone has to try.

30 minutes ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

No i will just move forward. Instead of being with the army of keyboard warriors.

I mean stuff like this, adds nothing to the discussion but insulting a section of the community.

[------Solo------]

26 minutes ago, Eldritchkitty said:

I mean stuff like this, adds nothing to the discussion but insulting a section of the community.

I was not meant to insult anyone, its just everyone see that hundreds of topics are being made discussing the same thing over and over again. Yet do you see DE taking insta actions regarding those feedbacks? That's my point, and that's why i answered that i will move forward because giving feedback and asking for DE to alter their changes on a rework that they already have planned and ready won't happen.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

1 hour ago, PrimeDCookieMonstah said:

I was not meant to insult anyone, its just everyone see that hundreds of topics are being made discussing the same thing over and over again. Yet do you see DE taking insta actions regarding those feedbacks? That's my point, and that's why i answered that i will move forward because giving feedback and asking for DE to alter their changes on a rework that they already have planned and ready won't happen.

Well when you throw around phrases like "keyboard warriors" it can be seen as insulting. That's a pretty fatalist attitude to have, maybe I'm just an optimist but I think DE has just been busy with Titania and all the other stuff. I mean Vauban's buffs didn't come until the day of his prime release.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

4 hours ago, Snowbluff said:

He was capable of being just as tanky before the nerf, it seems.

He was. 

The shadows generally lasted longer. Now it's just like oh shadows let's kill them with fire.

Edited August 20, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991

[(PSN)salovel1991]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

To the main topic, i essencially run the same build. Difference: i use transient instead of intesify and overextendet instead of p Flow. You get enough Orbs to be stuffed with energy at all times anyways and the range is definitly worth it as you hardly ever actually hit 20 enemys with terrify.

 

To the health Decay: it's definitly Set to high (so was the duration to begin with...) but reasoned...especially with the new replacement mechanic but, as I mentioned in another Thread, not nessasary.

They could've just used ivaras Arrow concept offering: Teleport, Heal, replacement and recycling instead ...bound to a killing function using Soul Punch? leaving the players the choice how far they wanna carry theyr shadows instead of, ya know, enforcing just any Kind of recycling..... but Hey, DE is a company. Sounds like a typical Management decision to avoid repetative Content and instead aiming for new, innovative ideas, no matter how broken or bad they are, doesn't is?

I'm usually up close and personal. Lol. But thanks for the suggestions I'll give them a try. 

[F4talFr4me]

The nekros feedback section and many threads have stated the reasons why we want changes. no point adding to them. ether they change nekros for the better or they simply ignore the community (like always)

[BulletsforTeeth]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Or they switched to hydroid...

Considering that more people were throwing salt then anyone EVER actually played necros... what leaves us with one simple motive for all this fuss: the desecrate change.

Hardly anyone admitted that they wanted the lootbot back or that anyone ever abused him so random rant happened to make room for theyr dissapointment.

 

It's not like there ain't alternatives in the game tho...people move on to the next BS Meta, Threads fade out. That's how this Community works.

I personally never liked desecrate, aside from the health orb aspect. I kinda wish they'd saved the nerf for the loot part, rather than also nerfing the multiroll and health orb aspect, but I digress. It's still multiple times better for the change.

My main dissapointment comes from the double nerf to SotD. First they knock the number down to a hard cap of 7, under the guise of performance tweaking, which, if for any platform, was for consoles. Then they add health drain which is nigh indisputeably worse than flat duration. Honestly, if they toned down the particles, upped the number to 10-max, and implemented a mechanic where the health drain stops for 5 seconds upon recieving outside damage, I'd be ecstatic. Hell, even if they only implemented the latter I'd be happier than punch.

[BulletsforTeeth]

Also, I'd reckon the posts are thinning out because people are just flat out tired of trying. If DE doesn't want to listen, they don't, or give half &#! non answers.

I love DE, the devs are great, but they almost never listen to feedback unless it's the same exact feedback for half a year.

[(XBOX)Big Man JAZZ]

I feel like Nekros's shadows of the dead change was a nerf. So let me get this out the way first, I know this change was to help people who are on consoles and low quality Pc's, but I myself play on console and have never had a problem and I've asked around and neither has anyone else. So since I've gotten that out of the way let me list the changes that feel like a nerf. The number of shadow you could potentially summon was reduced from 20 to 7, they are constantly losing health at 3% per second,you can heal them now but it still costs a base energy consumption of 100 if you don't have zenurik or good efficiency this is crippling,since there are only 7, when you have shield of shadows on, just one dieing decreases its  percent by a chunk, and they overall feel much less effective.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

I agree. Personally I feel like the base percentage of health drain on the Shadows should be reduced from 3% to 2%. Also I think that the energy consumed to heal your allies should be less then the amount to summon them and that the amount of energy spent to replace a dead unit should cost less then it would to replace all seven enemies.

Of course an increase from 7 to 8 total shadows would be nice too.

[SquireAngel]

First off, lemme lay a little info on you about minmaxing. Minmaxing is not the extreme that DE intends in builds for frames. You're able to mod how you feel, and while a minmax build may bring out the best of a frame in the aspect of ones choosing (i.e. EV trin), it is not, in fact, the ultimate factor in balance. Balance is meant to be met with ALL aspects of Nekros, and every other frame, in mind. Many people may sacrifice range on valk because eternal war+hysteria is so strong. However, a paralysis build is also great, and I actually find myself enjoying a balanced build with Valk. I can either use Hysteria for fast, weaker strikes, or simply run my Fragor Prime with moderate range on eternal war to have great mobility and CC on my Valk without using Hysteria once. The same can be said for multiple frames that people DO minmax, but can still be just as enjoyable without such a build; Trin, Banshee, Chroma, Mesa, Nova, Nyx, Rhino, and Saryn come to mind. 

While I do feel that Nekros needs a tiny bit more tweeking, this 'must be viable for a minmax build' BS isn't what we should be focusing on. And before you get all 'do you even raid/t4/lvl100+ bro?' I have and do play none minmaxed builds with these frames, in endgame content with large degrees of success. 

Also, The Titania threads are popping up because she's right in front of us. Nekros players are in the minority, while people who were riding the fairy hype train are numerous. Nekros Prime arrives next week, and if there's something that pisses off WF players, it's an underperforming prime. 

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

31 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

I love DE, the devs are great, but they almost never listen to feedback unless it's the same exact feedback for half a year.

Another thing to consider this that they're a company, not your best friend. They aren't going to flat out address the Nekros threads unless they have a gameplan. Acknowledgement will only lead to more salt. So they keep quiet, only letting us know this when they feel it's right. Take this past dev stream for example. They're finally looking at shields. This topic has been in the air for a very long time, but they chose now to bring it up. Because they're ready. If they acknowledged Nekros now and didn't do anything for a year so many people would be annoyed.

"Where are those Nekros changes you talked about?"

"DE lied to us!"

"I'm upset :("

salt salt salt

At least this way we can assume they have a veritable backlog of information regarding Nekros, but, at the moment, have no plans when it comes to changing him.

DE consists of more than the people we see sitting on the couch during s devstream. They know the community is upset of where Nekros is right now. However they are happy with where he's at right now. So only time will tell. Filling the forums full of Nekros threads isn't going to change that.

In regards to OP, as I've said, it's safe to assume DE has enough information on Nekros. But since Titania just came out, information is needed for her as well. And when Nekros Prome is released in sure we'll see a spike in Nekros threads. And it'll taper off again. This isn't new.

Edit: another thing I want to point out, because I've seen a lot of forum goers (usually those just starting out) get flustered because they feel like they aren't making an impact. These forums aren't about who's the loudest or about who has the best ideas. If a DE rep doesn't respond to a thread it doesn't mean they haven't seen it or don't care. Likewise if your post gets buried or doesn't get much attention, it also doesn't mean they haven't seen it.

The feedback forums isn't like a shark tank, where people must fight for dominance. Chill out. If your Nekros thread (or any other thread, or anyone else that may see this edit. This isn't soecifically aimed at any one person) doesn't gain traction don't immediately make another Nekros thread. It's a form of spam. Move on to another topic you'd like to talk about. It's nice to see people be so adamant about something care about, but there are other issues in Warframe that can be discussed.

... Huh dunno why I went on a rant there...

yall have a lovely day, forum goers, Ivan out~

Edited August 20, 2016 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[NeithanDiniem]

Have you ever run with 4 Nekros players that had 20 shadows each? Typically no, because you rarely see more than one Nekros in a team, but had you you likely would have seen an increase in performance issues. They alone were not a cause for issues, but they attributed to the pile pretty much. Now that his 4th ability though is more focused in his game play compared to his desecrate, Nekros is more viable as a general play frame compared to just a farmer. This means more people playing Nekros over all and more chances for multiple to appear in a team. If each of them not only were able to spawn all of their shadows shadows but keep them alive indefinitely, that could add to the types of things that could strain a game engine. Cutting back of things that slow down an engine is never a bad thing.

If he had always only been able to spawn 7 shadows people wouldn't be saying this was a nerf, because overall the strength of an individual shadow has gone up. People attribute the nerf to the AI for the shadows making them not respond well to enemies and it still evens out in the end. 10-15 shadows that were weaker still roughly damaged enemies the same as 7 that are stronger. You had to specifically build to be able to get 20 anyways, so having to build specifically to keep the 7 you have alive longer is now the priority. Now while healing you are replacing any that died as compared to before where you could neither heal nor replace.

All in all it falls to a few people that used Nekros for his ultimate before the change got too used to how it worked then, and now it is more viable for overall play in general without being over powered. They can make tweaks to help perfect it as well as use feedback from data collected on usage to see if they could up the numbers, but I largely feel that this change was the right step to take from what we had before.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

6 hours ago, Rebellis said:

I believe so.

From my own experience, as well as that from other veteran players, Nekros is super tanky and really really good right now with the correct build. Much better than before when he was just a desecrate2win frame.

In a sense he's still desecrate to win.. Which is okay now that it's toggle based. That's why I didn't mention that ability. 

[(PSN)salovel1991]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

Another thing to consider this that they're a company, not your best friend. They aren't going to flat out address the Nekros threads unless they have a gameplan. Acknowledgement will only lead to more salt. So they keep quiet, only letting us know this when they feel it's right. Take this past dev stream for example. They're finally looking at shields. This topic has been in the air for a very long time, but they chose now to bring it up. Because they're ready. If they acknowledged Nekros now and didn't do anything for a year so many people would be annoyed.

"Where are those Nekros changes you talked about?"

"DE lied to us!"

"I'm upset :("

salt salt salt

At least this way we can assume they have a veritable backlog of information regarding Nekros, but, at the moment, have no plans when it comes to changing him.

DE consists of more than the people we see sitting on the couch during s devstream. They know the community is upset of where Nekros is right now. However they are happy with where he's at right now. So only time will tell. Filling the forums full of Nekros threads isn't going to change that.

In regards to OP, as I've said, it's safe to assume DE has enough information on Nekros. But since Titania just came out, information is needed for her as well. And when Nekros Prome is released in sure we'll see a spike in Nekros threads. And it'll taper off again. This isn't new.

I know it's not new but it seems like reworks are becoming less and less fully thought out. Soul punch which I forgot to mention remained untouched still requiring direct aiming like Frost's old 1. That was disappointing. I'm not even going to throw out Mag, mainly because all people argue about is that dang shield polarize. Frost, Saryn, Excalibur, and Mesa changes were all thought out. It just seems like Vauban got a gimmick, Mag synergy is really not quite there, Volt received a lot of good changes but that shield drain though. It just seems the reworks are getting more sloppy and not thought out. 

[BulletsforTeeth]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)salovel1991 said:

I know it's not new but it seems like reworks are becoming less and less fully thought out. Soul punch which I forgot to mention remained untouched still requiring direct aiming like Frost's old 1. That was disappointing. I'm not even going to throw out Mag, mainly because all people argue about is that dang shield polarize. Frost, Saryn, Excalibur, and Mesa changes were all thought out. It just seems like Vauban got a gimmick, Mag synergy is really not quite there, Volt received a lot of good changes but that shield drain though. It just seems the reworks are getting more sloppy and not thought out. 

In a way, I can forgive this one being a little on the sloppy side, considering the veritable mountain of quest that's coming up.

[Retoirdascion]

just remove range, go for power and duration and a little bit of eff. that's what i do

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

just saying...