Specters of the Rail: U2.1 - Nekros Changes

[(PSN)joshw1400]

I've actually had my shadows kept alive because i stay near them to get armor buff and I have natural talent on to heal them faster. Plus they also summon the strongest enemies instead of the last few you killed. I also like how I can use desecrate and  SotD on the same build. For me, nekros' rework was really good.

[The-Matrix]

Not a huge fan of the "rework-fix" StoD too,

 

You hardly got four nekros based on the 4 in the same time (dont remember one time in such case and i m playing since the start) ; not that it never happened but i guess it's quite rare.

Plus, indeed the timer on the shadows is quite short... before you could have your army of undead for a decent time focusing on another task and now you got 7 asmatic bronchitis mob who constantly need attention... The amount of undead you had before could provide a huge shield around Nekros a lot more effective than this 7 dying summons.

 

I second the idea of bringing back the former glory of the necromancian, if the issue is really the performance (i kinda doubt this since is not that greedy), well DE just have to optimise the FX or remove some sparks ; it's not like the power relied on its incredible beauty.

Edited August 28, 2016 by The-Matrix

[IX-44]

Everyone thinks Nekros's ult is trash and I'm just here eating popcorn.

[(PSN)salovel1991]

2 hours ago, Xiusa said:

I feel entitled just looking by looking at the title.

 

Less shadows because they caused performance issues, so they made them stronger to compensate. I don't see any issue here since it's properly balanced. Constantly keeping your minions alive and in-check gives more of a necromancer vibe than just "bam here they are"

Except they didn't make them stronger. They made the priority set to more heavy units. So power strength still gives what we summon a much smaller health and damage pool. It also punishes people who want a support unit summoned. Which I never cared much about before because it didn't affect me much. The health decay on shield ospreys makes them pathetic and I lose 1/7th of my damage output. That means I'm doing 14% less damage. Back with 200 power strength I only lost 7% damage output and had 13 shadows to cover the support that had no health decay. They also had the same health and damage multipliers as they did before as well. As for constantly checking on shadows there is more wrong with this than anything. Nekros has a 150 energy pool. P Nekros has 187. So 1 cast costs 100 energy without efficiency. That is more than half your energy pool there. Add fleeting expertise you sacrifice duration and (-)Duration does what? Kills shadows faster so you would end up casting the ability more. But you would say "Just put on a p continuity or narrow minded". Yes I have those. But that does not excuse me from considering those who don't. Narrow minded sacrifices range. Stretch gives me back 45% but narrow minded sacrifices over 60% range. Range effects Desecrate, Soul Punch, teleport range, and Terrify. Overextended sacrifices strength. See the loop we're creating. I personally run P. Continuity and Intensify. It does very little to mitigate the health decay. Only decreasing it by 1.04. Completely worth a 14 cost mod. Which is crazy considering it adds 55% duration. And 3*.55= 1.65. So I averaged it out. But I don't want to bore you with even more math and statistics. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by (PS4)salovel1991

[RealPandemonium]

2 hours ago, Richtor2415 said:

They didn't even nerf him though. They explained many times the limitation of the total shadows of his fourth was for optimization- even I had some FPS drops during those 15+ shadow armies-, but in my opinion, they're better now, his 3rd ability aside. I'm not sure what build OP uses, but the army of shadows are less, this is true, but I'm preeetty sure DE also buffed them, so they're more-or-less the same, but with less FPS drops. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Lolno.  There was no buff whatsoever in damage or HP; only the number of shadows dropped.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

After getting nekros prime and putting several formas on it, verdict is - complete trash. And I mean not meh like limbo or zephyr. I mean completely unusable. Just revert the changes.

I'd rather have desecrate that you have to spam than useless toggle that gives less loot than hydroid augment. And I'd rather have shadows with a flat duration than shadows with less duration AND duration affected by damage they take AND you now can't see remaining duration. 

Desecrate needs 90% loot period. Smeeta pukes out 32+ neurodes, neural sensors etc. in one go, hydroid rerolls all tentacled enemies drops, ivara gets double drop from specific target. Nekros has no place in game as loot frame an the rest of his kit is terrible. 

Even terrify. Target cap...

I guess it's saryn again. Except nekros will be left unusable. 

[zehne]

Thought out a really long and precise argument of why nekros QQ is saddening to see.  Deleted it because its highly unlikely that it'd be read by the people that should read it (the complainants).  So here is the TLDR;

• Nekros is the only frame that I have considered using 2 different ability augments on at the same time.  The reason for this is because nekros is uniquely situated so that doing so allows some really overpowered mod/ability combos.
  • Despoil equilibrium and flow replace nearly all need for efficiency on nekros
    • Quick thinking or Health conversion replace the need for vitality and redirection
      • Means you replaced two efficiency mods and two survival mods with 4 different mods that gave better results with the bonus of being able to stack said 'replaced' mods on top if you wanted even higher results than other frames can achieve.

Oh and, nekros is the only frame I know of that has a medium-high range CC ability that can lock down enemies for ~~40 seconds.

[Valdala]

I was so happy when i heard of Nekros Prime coming, considering that Nekros was one of my favorite frames. I remember going crazy trying to boost my rep with syndicates to get the augments while running vaults for corrupted mods that I wanted to use on him. Once I finally got the above, I tossed 4 formas on him, and went to work leveling up not only him but the mods as well. I had a bunch of fun doing this, as I was also leveling up a new Tonkor that had only just finished building. Half the time I couldn't see from the tears of laughter, watching enemies being rag dolled all over the place, and most of the time it was not the ones I was aiming at. Only after months and months of playing had I learned to master my play style with him. I could solo and use my minions while tossing out a desecrate now and again, or I could be more of a utility / support when teamed up with other Tenno, popping up health orbs and increasing the loot. Indeed I loved my Nekros.

Now though, when I play, the minions seem rather useless and this desecrate "Aura" only works half the time. I'm quite sure I used to manually desecrate a lot more. I was just running a dark sector survival (funny enough trying to get these new Relics so I can have a shot at getting Nekros Prime Parts) and I noticed that my desecrate seemed not to be working. He'd go through the motion, but nothing happened. I then heard the sound desecration makes and I hadn't pressed the button. Was only then I noticed the "Aura" which seems to be passive. Only problem with that is it's slow, and the bodies decay (espically infested) before the "Aura" decides to trigger. From what I can tell it doesn't benefit from Natural Talent either.

I could go on and on, but I'm sure people have read enough.

TLDR; Revert Nekros back to his previous state, he was fine the way he used to be. This "Aura" is only going to cause more AFK'ing. He is, or was, a fun challening frame, and when played right, ever so effective. Please don't make him a mindless, unsatisfying, dare I say soulless frame to play. If people want an easier frame to play, I'm sure they can find one. Please DE, don't just cater for people that want the easy way, there's a lot of us that play that like a challenge now and again.

=Valdala

Edited September 2, 2016 by Valdala

[F4talFr4me]

Erm what BUFF are you talking about to his Desecrate? THAT WAS NERFED TO CR*P TOO. 54% loot chance now and its mechanically worse all around. they ruined the loot tables to screw you over on top of that. You want quality of life? nope. bend over and take it deep.

Edited August 28, 2016 by F4talFr4me

[Soju.]

6 hours ago, zehne said:

Thought out a really long and precise argument of why nekros QQ is saddening to see.  Deleted it because its highly unlikely that it'd be read by the people that should read it (the complainants).  So here is the TLDR;

• Nekros is the only frame that I have considered using 2 different ability augments on at the same time.  The reason for this is because nekros is uniquely situated so that doing so allows some really overpowered mod/ability combos.
  • Despoil equilibrium and flow replace nearly all need for efficiency on nekros
    • Quick thinking or Health conversion replace the need for vitality and redirection
      • Means you replaced two efficiency mods and two survival mods with 4 different mods that gave better results with the bonus of being able to stack said 'replaced' mods on top if you wanted even higher results than other frames can achieve.

Oh and, nekros is the only frame I know of that has a medium-high range CC ability that can lock down enemies for ~~40 seconds.

Ok. So you're basically saying, screw all your other builds, this one right here is the best fitted for him. Since the other builds prior to this update are now trash (for example, mine), unless there's some that I am unaware of.

[Zachatoo]

Given how easy it is to maintain your energy with careful managing of health/energy orbs and equilibrium, I don't think his energy costs need to be reduced by THAT much. I propose a simple 50% reduced energy cost if you're only healing or teleporting your shadows, if you have to summon new shadows then the full cost is applied.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

11 hours ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

As the title said. Can we please, un-nerf Nekros, to pre-Nekros Prime update, pretty please?

Before Nekros Prime update, maxed strength gives Nekros as much as 15 Shadows (or more), now his cap is 7. That's not to mention that they are constantly losing health now, regeneration and renewing Shadows are nice, first I heard of this I was excited, but then now that I realized they are constantly losing health (watching one of my Shadow lost 1/3 its health after 1 hit by another Corrupted is painful), now the user has to actively regenerate their Shadows and renewing them, which means wasting more energy.

Now what the hell is this? I might be one of the minor here that loved his 4th (despite it could have desperately use a buff), now it's S#&$ and I have literally zero reason to play Nekros, you guys just literally made him 99% farm frame with that Desecrate buff and the nerf to his 4th. His 4th was extremely useful in using the Shadows as being bullet eaters for its master and his teammates and distract the enemies, it had some sort of crowd control and overall a good support ability for a supporter like Nekros, now it can't even do that effectively, they can't kill because their damage is literally so small comparing to the higher level enemies' health and they die so easily it's ridiculous.

This update is a blessing to those farmers and save them from spamming Desecrate, but such a curse to those who ACTUALLY plays Nekros. If prior to this you didn't use his 4th but only his 1st and 2nd and 3rd, good for you, but damn nobody asked for this nerf to his 4th, it wasn't even popular, I get asked "what build is that" every time I use his 4th and gets a mini-army, that's to show how unpopular that is. What the bloody hell?

 

 

What I'd suggest is that he gets a buff to the minions' health decay. Make it a set amount so that he scales better into late game. Level 100 enemy should barely feel the health decay considering the effort it takes to take one of them down. It would make him as viable as Nyx at least. I like the update and he got quite a few nice buffs. But pretty much that was his only nerf. I felt a little bad about it when I first saw it and I predicted that it would go this way.

[Soju.]

49 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

What I'd suggest is that he gets a buff to the minions' health decay. Make it a set amount so that he scales better into late game. Level 100 enemy should barely feel the health decay considering the effort it takes to take one of them down. It would make him as viable as Nyx at least. I like the update and he got quite a few nice buffs. But pretty much that was his only nerf. I felt a little bad about it when I first saw it and I predicted that it would go this way.

Well I've also been reading others' comments and a few other threads. Apparently Desecrate is also nerfed to only half the chance to drop an extra item in exchange for it to be partially passive and make it "easier" to use. So this is an overall nerf to Nekros for me, even though I don't use Desecrate much.

[Tizodd]

I totally understand where you're coming from OP but:

After my initial knee-jerk, biased-filled, hatred of the rework, I'm actually enjoying it now.  Overall it's actually a buff over the old duration SotD.  The base health drain does need to be reduced though.  And the number of shadows should be increased a bit too...as well as a higher damage multiplier and and armor multiplier.  Higher multipliers are needed because many of us are going from 15-20 shadows to 7 shadows.

The reason I feel the change is a buff overall, is because now we have more control over what shadows we have.  Also, we no longer have to worry about that moment of complete vulnerability when SotD duration ends.

Ideally, any type of duration should be removed.  Soul Punch should be used on shadows to get rid of the ones you no longer want to keep.  This would add synergy to his abilities and give the player more control over his minions.  Nekros Prime's in-game description is "Death's new master"; if he's death's master, he should have more control over which enemies he resurrects and keeps alive.

TL : DR - The rework made Nekros better.  It does still need a few small tweaks though.

[RealPandemonium]

2 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

The reason I feel the change is a buff overall, is because now we have more control over what shadows we have.  

You have less control.  Want a shield osprey or shockwave MOA?  Good luck.  And now that you have only 7 shadows, each utility shadow that you do spawn will cut into your shadows' damage output big time.

[Soju.]

6 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

I totally understand where you're coming from OP but:

After my initial knee-jerk, biased-filled, hatred of the rework, I'm actually enjoying it now.  Overall it's actually a buff over the old duration SotD.  The base health drain does need to be reduced though.  And the number of shadows should be increased a bit too...as well as a higher damage multiplier and and armor multiplier.  Higher multipliers are needed because many of us are going from 15-20 shadows to 7 shadows.

The reason I feel the change is a buff overall, is because now we have more control over what shadows we have.  Also, we no longer have to worry about that moment of complete vulnerability when SotD duration ends.

Ideally, any type of duration should be removed.  Soul Punch should be used on shadows to get rid of the ones you no longer want to keep.  This would add synergy to his abilities and give the player more control over his minions.  Nekros Prime's in-game description is "Death's new master"; if he's death's master, he should have more control over which enemies he resurrects and keeps alive.

TL : DR - The rework made Nekros better.  It does still need a few small tweaks though.

This is actually a nerf to duration. As they have health decay, and yes, they can regen, but take the damage the enemy mobs are going to deal to account, it is a WAY shorter duration than what you actually had before, and you have to constantly monitoring and healing them, with way less shadows, that makes you more vulnerable.

 

And before this, every time my SotD ends, I always got enough energy refilled and enough enemies slain to raise another army, and I can do this while jumping on the air (yes you can jump up high then cast it), so vulnerability isn't that much of a problem unless you're going solo, since Nek is a support frame anyway.

 

And when you renew your Shadows or heal them, you have to use all the energy cost again AND if one of them dies you STILL have to use the long animation when you just cast it again. Overall, the old Nek was alright, now it's just crap.

[Gurpgork]

8 hours ago, zehne said:

Oh and, nekros is the only frame I know of that has a medium-high range CC ability that can lock down enemies for ~~40 seconds.

15 meters is not medium-high range. Especially considering that stuff like Chaos, Molecular Prime, Radial Disarm, and, heck, even Radial Blind easily outperform Terrify, and don't need augments to do that. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Gurpgork

[Biofreezer]

I use Desecrate mostly on my Nekro Build and I was quite surprised when i tryed my new Nekro Prime on a Excavation mission and casted like usual Desecrate but nothing happed. No life drain as I expected from the despoil mod, neither engery drain, just nothing. No popcorn popping up or something, nothing. Even after joining a random  mission and started to cast Desecrate nothing happens. I also casted Soul Punch on an downed ally and it did not even consumed energy.

Even those new flappies are making me crazy now, because the are flapping in front of my crosshair and are covering my line of sight.

Concerning SotD i used them only if i need to defend in urgent matters as my Desacrate build has a low duration.

7 minutes ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

 Overall, the old Nek was alright, now it's just crap.

Agree

[RealPandemonium]

14 minutes ago, Biofreezer said:

I use Desecrate mostly on my Nekro Build and I was quite surprised when i tryed my new Nekro Prime on a Excavation mission and casted like usual Desecrate but nothing happed. No life drain as I expected from the despoil mod, neither engery drain, just nothing. No popcorn popping up or something, nothing. Even after joining a random  mission and started to cast Desecrate nothing happens.

You're supposed to press 3 once and then leave it on.

[ashrah]

imagine who have bad pc... and u max nekro for sotd with very high mox power how many 15-20 souls+shield of shadows...than big group of mobs..  player with bad pc would get super duper lag spikes and frame rate like in matrix

[Biofreezer]

5 minutes ago, ashrah said:

imagine who have bad pc... and u max nekro for sotd with very high mox power how many 15-20 souls+shield of shadows...than big group of mobs..  player with bad pc would get super duper lag spikes and frame rate like in matrix

Then try to lower you matchmaking ping. If i lookup for a game that already has 300ping or higher dont expect that it will run smooth even if you encounter a lot of enemys and you got a super duper computer. I played random missions where i could stand in front of a door and it took a few seconds to open as usualy it opens instantly and i got a medium pc.

Same with Grafics, try to lower them: Speed or Eyecandy.

[GrimAtrament]

13 hours ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

"Less shadows because they caused performance issues"

That is such a bad argument. It's 2016, almost Q3 of 2016, and nearing 2017. I used a stock gtx 760 (a pretty low to mid end card, released in 2013, way over 3 years ago) and still rocked this game on max with sweetfx or reshade + all post processing effects + physx and it runs 60fps at 1080p.

not everyone rich or smooching off ther parents 

Edited August 28, 2016 by hazerddex

[Racter]

They actually nerfed Desecrate in most farm setups as well. Because it takes so much longer to desecrate mass enemies you end up losing quite a few to their natural decay now. They also added health orbs to his drop table instead of them being their own thing.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Been playing around with Nekros for a while now. At first I wasn't too bothered by the Health Decay for SotD, but what really annoyed me was whenever your shadows dipped below the maxed summoned numbers on the field Nekros' casting animation still retains the full animation on recast. So, if you're ever 6/7 shadows or less on the field, you'll be performing the full cast animation instead of the reduced version if you were at 7/7 shadows on the field. That's very inconvenient if you ask me. Even if there were 1/7 shadows on the field, recasting SotD should have the reduced cast animation feature intact.

Also, I'd like to see SotD having a reduced energy cost if SotD were recasted again with shadows still on the field. I believe this was mentioned before on the forums, and thought this would be a fantastic idea.

[zehne]

3 hours ago, AlphaWolf003 said:

Ok. So you're basically saying, screw all your other builds, this one right here is the best fitted for him. Since the other builds prior to this update are now trash (for example, mine), unless there's some that I am unaware of.

I'm saying learn to adapt.  Stopped playing the game at one point in time, I had about 80% play time on my nova (before prime even existed).  Came back to the game and found that my Molecular Prime "didn't work".

Instead of spewing off 'I hate you DE' or 'QQ you wrecked nova' I took the changes for what they were.  So I can't MP and watch everything within a 2mile radius instantly stop in time.  And I can't kill one enemy and watch a chain reaction rip across the room.  Does that mean Nova was ruined?  NO.