Bows get magical x2 bonus firerate, but not charging weapons??

[Darthmufin]

bow's get a fancy buff that magically allows fire rate mods to affect them at twice the rate, yet just as slow charge weapons like the ogris or opticor are left behind? How is that fair?

Just to put this in perspective here, the dread has a charge rate of 1.0, and the opticor has a slower charge rate of 2.50, more than double the dread, yet the dread gets twice the fire rate bonus. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Darthmufin

[Godzilla853]

Opticor is a little strong if it had the 2x fire rate 

[JeyciKon]

because fire rate does not speed much bows, they have both fire rate and reload in between shots.

[Darthmufin]

Just now, JeyciKon said:

because fire rate does not speed much bows, they have both fire rate and reload in between shots.

fire rate doesn't speed up the opticor either, you need vile acceleration and another speed mod for it to be viable. 

[Darthmufin]

2 minutes ago, Godzilla853 said:

Opticor is a little strong if it had the 2x fire rate 

Just to put this in perspective here, the dread has a charge rate of 1.0, and the opticor has a slower charge rate of 2.50, more than double the dread, yet the dread gets twice the fire rate bonus. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Darthmufin

[Misgenesis]

2 minutes ago, Godzilla853 said:

Opticor is a little strong if it had the 2x fire rate 

Bows would still be better because of their innate punchthrough.

[Godzilla853]

I don't know why maybe to make bows unique 

[Darthmufin]

Just now, Misgenesis said:

Bows would still be better because of their innate punchthrough.

that just proves my point that it should be x2 for charge weapons too. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Darthmufin

[Darthmufin]

1 minute ago, Godzilla853 said:

I don't know why maybe to make bows unique 

no, to give them an advantage they didn't need. Opticor needs the speed buff more than the dread does. 

[taiiat]

magicu

4 minutes ago, JeyciKon said:

because fire rate does not speed much bows, they have both fire rate and reload in between shots.

the Reload time in effect makes Bows have a Rate of Fire of ~0.74 for Charged Shots. without Mods.

[AsuraKyu]

1 minute ago, Darthmufin said:

no, to give them an advantage they didn't need. Opticor needs the speed buff more than the dread does. 

You can half charge a Opticor and fire it. Not so much the case with the Daikyu. It doesn't make sense in every case, same can be said for charge weapons. Lanka would be extremely broken.

[hammerheathen]

19 minutes ago, Godzilla853 said:

Opticor is a little strong if it had the 2x fire rate 

Sancti Tigris does more damage than the opticor (by a lot) and has no charge rate. I don't find this a valid argument.

[Tymerc]

I am fine with the Opticor taking time to fire at full strength. It's high, raw puncture damage can shut down every faction in the game aside from Sentients and Shadow Stalker when they have adapted to puncture damage. 

[Retequizzle]

23 minutes ago, Darthmufin said:

fire rate doesn't speed up the opticor either, you need vile acceleration and another speed mod for it to be viable. 

To be completely blunt, it gets 1k damage unmodded with a 5 round magazine and a 2.5 second charge time.  Even if we take 20% of every number listed in the previous sentence, it still performs better than most bows in the game.  I'd even go so far as to say it is pretty much better than a bow in every capacity except for ragdolling enemies and getting kills that way.

Bear in mind that it has access to Spring-Loaded Chamber, a mod that speeds up fire rate of rifles by 75% for 9 seconds (while aiming) per reload.  You can actually go through the entire magazine of an Opticor using Spring Loaded + Speed Trigger + Vile Acceleration and still have two seconds to spare, give or take.  Not to mention you get what, 540 rounds as an ammo reserve for a weapon that just disintegrates most things it hits directly?

You could go with this cookie cutter build and be set for pretty much any faction with the spare slots available:

https://gyazo.com/420b9e446048ee16229821ffdff3b1b6

In the end, the issue here isn't that Opticor should be treated as a bow.  If anything, there's a lot of room to work with for versatility in terms of a weapon that, in recent weeks, has become pretty rare to see in general use because of other *@(! dominating a self-imposed community "meta".  Maybe stop focusing on just one mod and "BAW I CAN'T BELIEVE IT DOESN'T GET SAME BONUS AS *insert weapon of choice here*" and focus on what things this weapon can do that bows can't.

[JeyciKon]

let me explain better with examples:

if a bow has 0.5 reload and 0.5 charge it will shot 1 p/sec, with 100% fire rate it will have 0.50 + 0.25, shooting 1 every 3/4 of a sec(75%) thats 133 rounds p/minute

meanwhile a non-bow has no reload between shots, this means if it shots 1 p/sec , with just 50% more it will shot 1 every 2/3 of a sec(66.67%) thats 150 round p/minute, making it actually faster than the bow.

got it?

[Numbsky1]

The only non bow weapon that should also benefit from the x2 speed bonus is the Miter since it would make the damn thing a lot more viable. Right now it suffers from many woes, giving it also the double draw/charge speed bonus would help a great deal and certainly not make the thing OP.

[JeyciKon]

Just now, Numbsky1 said:

The only non bow weapon that should also benefit from the x2 speed bonus is the Miter since it would make the damn thing a lot more viable. Right now it suffers from many woes, giving it also the double draw/charge speed bonus would help a great deal and certainly not make the thing OP.

thats a problem with the weapon and not the mod, the question here is why fire rate mods are doubled on bows and not other weapons, and as i explained fire rate has a lower impact on bows, thats why it has to be doubled, otherwise you wont notice a diference.

[Numbsky1]

25 minutes ago, JeyciKon said:

thats a problem with the weapon and not the mod, the question here is why fire rate mods are doubled on bows and not other weapons, and as i explained fire rate has a lower impact on bows, thats why it has to be doubled, otherwise you wont notice a diference.

So the Miter should be denied an easy fix for the sake of keeping the charging mechanics for bows and the x2 bonus, which no one disputed it the first place ?

The question was why other weapons can not benefit from the same x2 bonus, you denied it for the Miter saying it was a problem of the weapon and than argued because of the bows weapon mechanics they need the x2 charge rate to make the charge rate mods worth while. One could now argue that the inherent problem is with the bows as a weapon themselves and not the mod. Fun fact, everyone and their mom used Speed Trigger and Vile Acceleration even before the buff, some even both. It was a very nice buff to bows which were already pretty strong in the first place since you now only needed 1 charge/rof rate mod. As for making the mod(s) worth while the same argument can be used for the Miter. 

   

Edited August 13, 2016 by Numbsky1

[JeyciKon]

4 hours ago, Numbsky1 said:

So the Miter should be denied an easy fix for the sake of keeping the charging mechanics for bows and the x2 bonus, which no one disputed it the first place ?

The question was why other weapons can not benefit from the same x2 bonus, you denied it for the Miter saying it was a problem of the weapon and than argued because of the bows weapon mechanics they need the x2 charge rate to make the charge rate mods worth while. One could now argue that the inherent problem is with the bows as a weapon themselves and not the mod. Fun fact, everyone and their mom used Speed Trigger and Vile Acceleration even before the buff, some even both. It was a very nice buff to bows which were already pretty strong in the first place since you now only needed 1 charge/rof rate mod. As for making the mod(s) worth while the same argument can be used for the Miter. 

   

It was always 2x, it just wasn't specified on the description before. there was no buff.

just tell me: if a bow has 0.7 reload and 0.5 charge, thats 50 arrows p/minute,  you add +100% fire rate, now how many does it shot p/minute?
now if a non-bow has 1.2 charge, 50 p/minute like the bow, add 50% fire rate, how many does it shoot p/minute now?

do me this simple math please.

[TaylorsContraction]

4 hours ago, JeyciKon said:

It was always 2x, it just wasn't specified on the description before. there was no buff.

just tell me: if a bow has 0.7 reload and 0.5 charge, thats 50 arrows p/minute,  you add +100% fire rate, now how many does it shot p/minute?
now if a non-bow has 1.2 charge, 50 p/minute like the bow, add 50% fire rate, how many does it shoot p/minute now?

do me this simple math please.

You need to account for reloading in this calculation thus you should specify what weapon you're talking about. No charged weapon has a mag of 100 rounds.

Having said that, I don't necessarily agree with op I just don't agree with  your  thought process in said argument .

Edited August 13, 2016 by TaylorsContraction

[bubbabenali]

If Critical Deceleration had some usefulness that'd might be a tradeoff, but as it is now, a darling weapon type just got another unneeded buff, while other weapons still rotting on the shelves. 

[JeyciKon]

43 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

You need to account for reloading in this calculation thus you should specify what weapon you're talking about. No charged weapon has a mag of 100 rounds.

Having said that, I don't necessarily agree with op I just don't agree with  your  thought process in said argument .

i know, i was doing the burst dps, sure you can add the reload and bla bla bla.... the point is made anyway.

[Tekka_Croe]

The reason that bows get the 2x bonus from fire rate mods is because they have to reload between every shot.  This means that maximizing a bow's charged fire rate requires both fire rate and reload speed mods.  Other charge weapons have multiple rounds per magazine which means that they only need fire rate mods to optimize their fire rate.

[Darthmufin]

On 8/12/2016 at 11:50 PM, AsuraKyu said:

You can half charge a Opticor and fire it. Not so much the case with the Daikyu. It doesn't make sense in every case, same can be said for charge weapons. Lanka would be extremely broken.

Not really, half charged lanka and opitcor shots deal far less damage than charged shots do. Sadly, the opticor needs those half shots because unless you lower damage to increase the firerate by adding 3 fire rate mods, half charge shots are more practical in warframe. 

[Darthmufin]

On 8/13/2016 at 3:52 PM, Tekka_Croe said:

The reason that bows get the 2x bonus from fire rate mods is because they have to reload between every shot.  This means that maximizing a bow's charged fire rate requires both fire rate and reload speed mods.  Other charge weapons have multiple rounds per magazine which means that they only need fire rate mods to optimize their fire rate.

no, they buffed them to double because people have been asking DE for a buff of that kind for a long time, especially because of bows like the dread. the time to take another arrow is so tiny even on the daikyu that is isn't worth mentioning.