OK, clearly DE aren't understanding WHY we Nullifiers get so much hate

[PickleMonster21]

4 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

The verdict: Nullifiers are a terrible bandaid solution to a problem that could be solved much better. It's time for that to actually happen

After reading literally everything you have written down, I still like them. They force a change. 8/10 people complain about Power Creep but these guys literally throw Power Creep on the ground and makes it (the player, in this case) it's b*tch. I'm not gonna go into detail because I'm sure someone here out of these 100+ comments has done that, but I simply like Nullifiers.

[CrazyFugee.TTV]

Personally, I like Nullifers in most forms, and agree with most design choices around them...

I do think they work as they're intended. Creating a barrier and challenge. Bringing "uh-oh" moments to a mission. Being a support unit to their allies, even if it means they're supporting other Nullifiers with combination of other annoying enemies to deal with. When you take into account what they were designed to do, I don't think they're just a "band aid" or a "lazy" way to address infinite scaling enemies, being easy without them.

Whether it's a Corpus Nullifer, Scrambus, or a Bursa, they're all fair game to me. Corrupt Nullifiers make sense because they're in the void and corrupt. My only issue is: why do the Grineer have Nullifier Drones in NM raids? It made sense for the Corpus and the Corrupt enemies but Grineer? Really? That right there is a band aid, lazy, and non creative, way to add a challenge to the raid.

Whats next? Nullifer Mutalist Ospreys in NM Jordas? I shouldn't give them ideas.. but really, I think they need to come up with other design choices to dealing with Warframe powers, other than adding more anti-warframe-bubble enemies.

Edited August 20, 2016 by CrazyFugee

[Hypernaut1]

"they're not hard to kill, they're just not fun"

What does that even mean? If they aren't hard to kill, why are you complaining? How are they "not fun"? You see them from a distance and kill then... And yes you can use MOST weapons, including a few snipers. so exaggerating how difficult the bubbles are to pop. I don't make game videos, but im tempted to make one showing how easy the bubbles are to pop from a distance using all weapons minus a few like the opticor or tonkor.

No one has not been able to complete a sortie because of nullifiers. If you want to go 60 minutes in survival, that's on you....i hope you find it difficult.

 

Edit: horrible auto spell check.

Edited August 20, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[cghawk]

2 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

That's not a problem with nullies, that's a problem with you. You refuse to adapt, you obtusely try to solve every problem with one solution and then throw a tantrum when your one trick does not work.

Let me guess, you bring magnet weapons against grineer and feel that you're cheated when they are not as effective?

 

One common mistake I see is thinking that Warframe is about universality. It is not, it never was. it's about picking the right tool for the job. If you're picking tools that you know are not effective then you're yourself to blame and noone else. 

and yet this adapting is rather unfair is it not? the majority of players use a simulor, tonkor or high rate of fire weapon to rush through the level and the nullifier does not stop this in any way, so how come the minority has to adapt who not only now cannot use the weapons they want but also actually had to put in more effort when it came to killing enemies as opposed to spray and pray? and how is throwing entire weapon classes in the trash adapting? when facing nullifiers the only ''adapting'' is going with the mindset''low rate of fire weapons are a waste of time'' wow, so much adapting! when I fight against the grineer and infested and bring different weapons almost every time, a braton prime, lex prime, paracyst,  marelok,  paris prime, vectis, grinlok, ogris etc etc, this however is not the case with corpus because if I actually want to use my gun to kill them I'm restricted by a common enemy, no other unit in the game does that which is ridiculous in and of itself.

and oh look at these people with reading comprehension problems! OP clearly stated difficulty is not a problem, I mean how could it be, aim soma at nullifier > hold mouse button > it's dead, the problem is that they're simply not fun, so let me quote myself since clearly no one reads it.

 

the problem is that they're just not fun, want to play wukong and you know, use abilities? tough S#&$, shoulda thought about that before crafting/buying a melee orientated warframe, sure I can deactivate my ability, kill the nullifier, activate again and then 2 seconds later deactivate it again to kill nullifier and then activate it again etc etc but that's not fun, that's straight up boring.

 

you nullifier defenders need to stop bringing up counterplay to them as if that magically solves the fact they are not fun to play against, it doesn't, all it does is remove the anti-fun bubble for 2 seconds and then a new 1 pops up, well wooptiedo, now I gotta keep sliding and sliding and sliding AND FRIGGIN SLIDING because my paris prime can't do S#&$ against a nullifier bubble, well isn't that just god damn exciting! got 3 weapons, 4 abilities but screw those 2 weapons and 4 abilities, SCREW YOUR CHOICE SLIDE *@##$.

 

the counterplay shouldn't be to disregard all low rate of fire weapons in the game which are already rarely used and to favor the already highly used high rate of fire weapons, that's stupid.

[OmegaShoots]

Hey OP here's a real swell idea that I think you should consider....
Prepare your loadout for corpus so you have a faster way of dealing with nullifiers.

>b-but I don't want to!

Well that's really too bad and not something that needs to be balanced around.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, hazerddex said:

ya and scrambas and combas dont do anything at all i can still kill them with equinox's 4 nezhas shield still stays on when they are around they cant do anything to limbos rift walk for some unknow reason they do nothing to frost snow globe and you say that the nulifiers dont work? combas work even less fix the combas/scrambas before you do anything to nerf the nulifiers 

 

also i use shotguns all the time and never once had an issue with nulifiers just walk in and kill them only people having problems with them are the people using sniper that cant seem to press f to switch weapons 

 

and dont you dare give me dont want to use secondary exucse sentients become damage type immune FORCING YOU to switch weapons its called adaptive combat its a great addition and give the game a more challenging aspect of the game

there is one flaw:

 

Warframe isn't challenging, it is artificial difficulty. *cough cheesy armor and nullifiers cough*. these enemies aren't challenging, it just becomes who can one shot first. this game needs to solve nullifiers and balance enemy scaling.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

That's not a problem with nullies, that's a problem with you. You refuse to adapt, you obtusely try to solve every problem with one solution and then throw a tantrum when your one trick does not work.

Let me guess, you bring magnet weapons against grineer and feel that you're cheated when they are not as effective?

 

One common mistake I see is thinking that Warframe is about universality. It is not, it never was. it's about picking the right tool for the job. If you're picking tools that you know are not effective then you're yourself to blame and noone else. 

You just stated the reasons that I can't understand the hate either. People will switch out their elemental combo, but don't want to change out one of their weapons to better handle that faction.

I like to use bows alot. But it would be somewhat stupid of me to equip a Lex Prime with it knowing that I'm going into a high level corpus sortie.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

You just stated the reasons that I can't understand the hate either. People will switch out their elemental combo, but don't want to change out one of their weapons to better handle that faction.

I like to use bows alot. But it would be somewhat stupid of me to equip a Lex Prime with it knowing that I'm going into a high level corpus sortie.

And yet you can still do well enough using that lex prime if you choose. It's not impossible to defeat nullys with your weapon of choice... It just takes a bit more of a focus. They're simply an enemy that take a minimum of 5/6 shots to get at the"meat"

Edited August 20, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[DatDarkOne]

26 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And yet you can still do week enough using that lex prime if you choose. It's not impossible to defeat nullys with your weapon of choice... It just takes a bit more of a focus. They're simply an enemy that take a minimum of 5/6 shots to get at the"meat"

I totally agree with you. I was just using the Bow/Lex P combo as an example because I know it doesn't have a high rate of fire. So that weapon combo wouldn't be an "optimal" setup for a high level corpus missions. It just that some others seem to ignore common sense when choosing loadouts for their missions. Then act butthurt when it doesn't work as well as they would like.

Would you go into a race against a Lamborghini using a Yugo and expect to win? :}

Edited August 20, 2016 by DatDarkOne
spelling

[(PSN)Xurokhan]

 

Agreed! This is what I posted in a different thread - 

Quote

 

I'd much rather have a large variety of Scrambus enemies instead of nullifiers.  

We currently have:

• Fog Scambus - disrupts perception type powers
• Nul Scrambus - disrupts buff and debuff type powers
• Sap Scrambus - disrupts damage type powers
• Slo Scrambus - disrupts mobility type powers

These are the types of enemies that force me to switch up tactics and I think we'd be better off having more variations of these enemies rather than the "shoot the bubble or slide through the bubble and kill" nullifiers that are honestly more of an annoyance than a challenge.

We could have Scrambus types that stop shield regeneration or put a pause on all Warframe aura mods in the area or ones that cause equipped mods like Intensify to reduce powers by 30% instead of increasing them.

 

The options with Scrambus enemies are almost unlimited. DE could be getting very creative with them.

[Midrib]

34 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I totally agree with you. I was just using the Bow/Lex P combo as an example because I know it doesn't have a high rate of fire. So that weapon combo wouldn't be an "optimal" setup for a high level corpus missions. It just that some others seem to ignore common sense when choosing loadouts for their missions. Then act butthurt when it doesn't work as well as they would like.

Would you go into a race against a Lamborghini using a Yugo and expect to win? :}

Sure thats a good argument, Issue is, why make a counter to one of the less used weapon types that is Bows and Snipers, My suggestion is make the bubble affected by punch thro,  So the element of counter play is still there.

[xaanos]

8 hours ago, izzatuw said:

it's this time of season again.

 

*collects the 419 thread that complains about the same thing*

Then maybe something need to be changed. People complain about them for a good reason. They are anti fun and like OP said, there are already better ways to do it in game.

[Kangarad]

clearly  "The slow blade penetrates the shield. " so why not make slow weapons like bows/throwing daggers/grenades pass through the shield?

[KriegorTenno]

Mhh... Me too I really don't understand why people want a nerf on nully's, that doesn't make any sense...

I want to see more ennemies with unique mecanics and tactics we must know to kill them.

Nullifier is just a small cancer for beginners, if you know how to play against them, they are just a joke, just a basic ennemy you have to enter in his bubble 1/2 second to kill him or kill the bubble before rush his helmet.

I prefer see a Nullifier Stronghold in Sortie, this is more interesting than nerf them for nothing...

[GnosticCat]

9 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

clearly  "The slow blade penetrates the shield. " so why not make slow weapons like bows/throwing daggers/grenades pass through the shield?

Tonkor already most powerful weapon, lets make it even more stronger.

[DatDarkOne]

48 minutes ago, xaanos said:

Then maybe something need to be changed. People complain about them for a good reason.

People complain about any and every thing.  It's been that way long before video games where common. 

7 minutes ago, Kangarad said:

clearly  "The slow blade penetrates the shield. " so why not make slow weapons like bows/throwing daggers/grenades pass through the shield?

I was wondering when a fellow Tenno would make a Dune reference in regards to the Nullies.  :D

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

9 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

Nullifiers exist to make us change our playstyle and be less reliant on instantly killing everything by spamming our powers? Why yes, we in fact DID already understand that! It's obvious to all of us!

No we didn't (as a community) because most of us were relying on powers a lot more than weapons. This led to absolutely cheesy tactics where a single Trin can keep feeding energy to the team so they can spam their ultimate powers nonstop and kill enemies as soon as they spawn.  

I don't see the problem with Nullifiers. If they're so easy to beat then why are you even complaining? If you're packing a slow firing primary then simply pack a rapid firing secondary. 

I actually support the addition of Nullifier-type units to the Grineer and Infested armies. Players need to learn to stop standing around in one spot while pressing a single button every now and then.

Now get out there and CUT DOWN THE

[Kangarad]

1 minute ago, icewindlord said:

Tonkor already most powerful weapon, lets make it even more stronger.

maybe then it willl get nerf'd to penta levels.

 

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

People complain about any and every thing.  It's been that way long before video games where common. 

I was wondering when a fellow Tenno would make a Dune reference in regards to the Nullies.  :D

shh you make me feel old. 1984 was 32 years ago...

[GnosticCat]

Just now, Kangarad said:

maybe then it willl get nerf'd to penta levels.

 

shh you make me feel old. 1984 was 32 years ago...

Penta isn't that all that weak. Self damage? We would get even more threads about that than with nullies.

Also dune shields would not be all that wise, laser weapons might be too dangerous.

[Khaine62]

A single Null is not a problem. A Null in and of itself is not hard to kill. The problem becomes when you've 3-4 of them plus other units. 

Nulls aren't a problem in and of themselves. The problem is that you're left with the option of having a high RoF weapon at all times in case run into one or are left doing suicide run trying to get inside of them to kill them with their other units around. 

The only thing I would really change is how many can spawn and let their bubble go down based on damage, thus letting those who run bows and snipers be able to deal with them.

[TARINunit9]

29 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

If they're so easy to beat then why are you even complaining?

Did you not even read the OP?

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Just now, TARINunit9 said:

Did you not even read the OP?

Yes I did and he's just one of many who complain about a simple little annoyance which is easily countered by using a high rate of fire weapon as a secondary. 

[TARINunit9]

Just now, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

Yes I did and he's just one of many who complain about a simple little annoyance which is easily countered by using a high rate of fire weapon as a secondary. 

I'm the OP, and clearly you didn't read it if you're projecting that onto me

[Wandering_Cyberdragoness]

10 hours ago, SilvaDreams said:

Ya and that is called playing smart and having a complimentary loudout.

Have a slow Primary take a fast secondary for those "Oh shhh###" moments

How about making it so we can run whatever weapons we like, by making it so different types of weaponry deal with the same issue in different, but equally effective ways. Maybe allowing innate punch-through weapons to bypass the bubble, shotguns to have a higher damage vs it, same for non-auto weaponry in generally

[OverlordMcGeek]

36 minutes ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said:

Yes I did and he's just one of many who complain about a simple little annoyance which is easily countered by using a high rate of fire weapon as a secondary. 

He's the OP.

I would like if there was a change to all enemies that the more cc abilities used on them that dmg and potential would be reduced by 50% a second time around on the same enemies, and continue to diminish in effectiveness on more subsequent casts. Barring shield type of abilities and buffing abilities of course.

I understand the programming would be a *@##$ to implement. But this exact reasoning has been around at most since the first month that nullifiers were released. Testing by some serious members that always go above and beyond to give us information on game mechanics each update. So DE has had years to waste in making the code for this to be possible.

I say stop wasting time DE.

Edited August 20, 2016 by OverlordMcGeek
testing testing? I'm drunk...