Give us reasons to not nuke enemies brains out the moment they show up

[rockscl]

This game has certain builds and specific abilities that encourage such extreme CC and buffs to damage, while ALSO you have certainly NOT stopped your power creeping logics, so killing enemies seems to not become a really hard thing any (reasonable) time soon, AND bullet sponges arent usually welcomed in this community, so, why dont you introduce enemies that we are better to not instagib?, here are some ideas:

Unit that boosts his allies armor on death, however the longer he lives the less armor he gives.

Unit that increases our speed while hes alive but drains some of our hp per second.

Unit that the longer he lives, the more energy orbs he drops on death.

In survivals, a self detonating unit that drops air support each X seconds but explodes on contact like oxium ospreys.

I guess that gives an idea, personally i think it would be a side step that would allow you to bring new experiences for the players without demanding power creeping as a side effect.

Edited August 22, 2016 by rockscl

[Nopy117]

4 minutes ago, rockscl said:

Unit that the longer he lives, the more energy orbs he drops on death.

THIS is a very cool idea. Maybe tie it to damage dealt to players instead of time alive?

[rockscl]

3 minutes ago, Nopy117 said:

THIS is a very cool idea. Maybe tie it to damage dealt to players instead of time alive?

The more damage he does to players? that certainly sounds very interesting dude

[GinKenshin]

I love the survival unit idea, it'll be good for infested. I 'like' the other ones. good concept overall 

[Nopy117]

Just now, rockscl said:

The more damage he does to players? that certainly sounds very interesting dude

Yea, the more damage he does to players, the higher the energy orb is for killing him.

[som_kind_of_god_ofwaifus]

We need more interesting enemies. Have a like.

[Tsukinoki]

The only thing I see coming from this is a more CC heavy meta.
Because now instead of just nuking the enemies you just endlessly CC them until they are at their cap of whatever they produce and then nuking the lot of them.

And then this opens up new avenues for trolling or breaking the game.
For instance with that unit that grants more armor if you kill them quickly: A troll would just pop them as fast as they can and actively hurt the group.
For that one that does constant health drains while increasing speed: say hello to a limbo ruining it for everyone.
For the rest of them if you insert a Vauban/Mirage/Slova then they are just utterly broken and give out massive energy/air/whatever for literally no effort.

So all this would do is switch the gameplay from a damage meta to a CC meta earlier in the endless missions while providing more avenues for trolling...Which I don't really see as an improvement in any way.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Mokusvezer said:

We need more interesting enemies. Have a like.

we do sadly a large portion of the community hates them 

bursas before the nerf

nulifiers

manics before the nerf

rathuum enemies befor the nerf

Edited August 23, 2016 by hazerddex

[TheScytale]

2 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

The only thing I see coming from this is a more CC heavy meta.
Because now instead of just nuking the enemies you just endlessly CC them until they are at their cap of whatever they produce and then nuking the lot of them.

And then this opens up new avenues for trolling or breaking the game.
For instance with that unit that grants more armor if you kill them quickly: A troll would just pop them as fast as they can and actively hurt the group.
For that one that does constant health drains while increasing speed: say hello to a limbo ruining it for everyone.
For the rest of them if you insert a Vauban/Mirage/Slova then they are just utterly broken and give out massive energy/air/whatever for literally no effort.

So all this would do is switch the gameplay from a damage meta to a CC meta earlier in the endless missions while providing more avenues for trolling...Which I don't really see as an improvement in any way.

What about using those abilities cancels their effects?

[Tsukinoki]

2 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

What about using those abilities cancels their effects?

Well at least Limbo would have a reason to exist:
Afterall, the party in the void means that they can leave enemeis alone as long as they want.
Toss in a frame like Ash/Mesa and you can wait for the bonuses to stack up infinitely while in safety and then easily wipe with abilities to reap the benefits.
And for the air support enemy you wouldn't even need to worry too much about killing the fodder.

And for defense missions frost will still protect the objective by casting his globe from the rift.

So going from an active, fast paced: "Kill everything!"
To a slow paced "Lets sit here a while to avoid buffing the enemies and do things as slowly as possible in general"
Is pretty much what this idea entails...which is one of the big reasons why I don't see DE using this idea.  It just slows down gameplay too much.

[IceColdHawk]

This just sounds too strange. So we should let our dearest enemy live, so he can buff us? It makes no sense. And if i'm honest, i wouldn't want to let a bursa or supra hero live longer only so i can get more energy. Some sort of miniboss that spawns rarely, but is tougher to defeat while giving more energy. This could be great.

[rockscl]

9 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

What about using those abilities cancels their effects?

the idea is clear, and the examples are just that, examples, if there were such silly abuses there would also be simple limitations to implement, the single Limbo example is terrible, when you turn an unit into the void he gets rekt by abilities, that doesnt help against power spam teams

Edited August 23, 2016 by rockscl

[Roboplus]

I disagree with everything you've said on every feasible level. We don't need gimmicks designed to make us pull our punches, we need enemies to react intelligently to the overwhelming force we're using.

If an Ember is WoFing the map, have a few enemies that can toss fire resistant heat sinks that force the toggle to target them.

If an Ash is Blade Storming everything, have a few enemies make decoys that are prioritized by the power's targetting and force it to end early.

If a Loki is disarming everything, have a few enemies with armor-mounted weapons that can't be removed.

Enemies need to struggle against us, just as we struggle against them. That's why balance in this game is so ridiculous. Instead of enemies reacting to our powers, they just get more EHP and hit harder.

That's the whole problem with Nullifiers too, there's nothing intelligent about what they do. If they fired nullification limpet mines at us, their allies, and in the direction they're traveling then you could see what they're doing, where they plan to go, and counter it. For all the complaints I see about Bursas, I don't see people complain about the nullifier balls they shoot that can stick to us and it's because you can counter it.

[o.0-]

I think it would be better to limit our mod combos on builds. One possible avenue is mods boosts can no longer stack with other similar mod boosts. So this way if one wants to boost Duration one must choose a single mods out of the available mods, so no more combining Narrow Minded and Primed Continuity, for example. The same can apply to other stats and attributes as necessary, since the main sources of trouble seem to be Duration, Efficiency, Strength and Range.

Then the devs can fill in spots and add more mod variety into the mix such as more Corrupt mods, dual stat versions and the seeming continuation of Primed variants.

One possible idea for a new Corrupt Mod, Deft Skill - Increases Power Efficiency 65%, Decreases Power Strength 60%. So combined with a maxed Blind Rage the net gain is 10% Efficiency and 39% Strength.

Players would have more options with greater mod variety, greater mod variety can fill in more loot tables and rewards, and having such a limit on mods allows the devs to better dictate what they want out of the system without having to change too much.

[rockscl]

1 hour ago, Roboplus said:

I disagree with everything you've said on every feasible level. We don't need gimmicks designed to make us pull our punches, we need enemies to react intelligently to the overwhelming force we're using.

If an Ember is WoFing the map, have a few enemies that can toss fire resistant heat sinks that force the toggle to target them.

If an Ash is Blade Storming everything, have a few enemies make decoys that are prioritized by the power's targetting and force it to end early.

If a Loki is disarming everything, have a few enemies with armor-mounted weapons that can't be removed.

Enemies need to struggle against us, just as we struggle against them. That's why balance in this game is so ridiculous. Instead of enemies reacting to our powers, they just get more EHP and hit harder.

That's the whole problem with Nullifiers too, there's nothing intelligent about what they do. If they fired nullification limpet mines at us, their allies, and in the direction they're traveling then you could see what they're doing, where they plan to go, and counter it. For all the complaints I see about Bursas, I don't see people complain about the nullifier balls they shoot that can stick to us and it's because you can counter it.

im sorry to enlighten your eyes but theres no intelligent reaction to global nukes, the moment DE adds a technologically prepared unit the (almost) entire community cries "remove nullies", and you are suggesting bulletsponges, flash news, the community hates them too but seeming as how power creep is a thing that is needless to say, bulletsponges will hapen anyway in case you didnt notice already, the very existence of nullies comes from a far mroe developed post that made DE notice how theres no intelligent reaction to spawn and then getting nuked, oh, bursas? are you really pretending to not see people crying because of their existence too?

Edited August 23, 2016 by rockscl

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

57 minutes ago, Roboplus said:

I disagree with everything you've said on every feasible level. We don't need gimmicks designed to make us pull our punches, we need enemies to react intelligently to the overwhelming force we're using.

If an Ember is WoFing the map, have a few enemies that can toss fire resistant heat sinks that force the toggle to target them.

If an Ash is Blade Storming everything, have a few enemies make decoys that are prioritized by the power's targetting and force it to end early.

If a Loki is disarming everything, have a few enemies with armor-mounted weapons that can't be removed.

Enemies need to struggle against us, just as we struggle against them. That's why balance in this game is so ridiculous. Instead of enemies reacting to our powers, they just get more EHP and hit harder.

That's the whole problem with Nullifiers too, there's nothing intelligent about what they do. If they fired nullification limpet mines at us, their allies, and in the direction they're traveling then you could see what they're doing, where they plan to go, and counter it. For all the complaints I see about Bursas, I don't see people complain about the nullifier balls they shoot that can stick to us and it's because you can counter it.

I love this idea, enemies start normal and adapt based on how they are killed.  This way your party could effectively rotate kill methods to give a mission an ebb and flow.  Please make this it's own topic.

[Bibliothekar]

9 hours ago, hazerddex said:

nulifiers

Nullifiers are as interesting as potato blight to an Irish farmer ...

[Greenshockclaw]

a neutral unit that hosts a tea party if you let him live

[AdrianoStyle]

I can easy say =>  this game needs more, more, more Blood yeah!  ( :    (it should be option in options/display***).

[ClinkzEastwood]

The main reason why people kill enemies asap is because they want to finish the mission and gtfo with the rewards. Plain and simple.

Who cares about buffs when currently we can snoze through missions without them?

Edited October 28, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[Chipputer]

You're playing a horde shooter where people have a hard enough time locating priority targets in the mix of enemies, as it is. Why would it be a good idea to now stick an enemy in there that punishes you for shooting into that horde?

More interesting enemies? Sure. Enemies that punish you for playing the game as it's designed? No.