Relics are better than Keys

[MordaxPraetorian]

Just thought I'd step in and be the voice of reason again

I like how with the new system it's quicker to obtain the new prime parts thanks to the higher chance to get what I need from a relic than from a key, particularly when playing with friends

I like how this more than offsets the need to farm relics before hand, and I like how my game is more varied as a result of the new system

To get the new primes, I find myself doing a much wider variety of stuff and I appreciate that

Positive feedback all the way

[RobWasHere]

Yes, they are better when you have friends. Solo players would prefer old system with endless missions more.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

For solo player this isn't any better-same low chances, now you forced to farm relics first, for EVERY new prime access aka all of your relics slockpiles are useless. We lost endless void mission and with that any actual rewarding endgame in warframe. You need to farm that fusion thing too and even if you enchant your relic to da max thats not gonna guarantee that you gonna get what you need. New void suck hard.

[residente]

15 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

Just thought I'd step in and be the voice of reason again

Lol, this isn't the voice of the reason. This is your voice and your opinion. I'd rather log in the day the new Prime Access comes and start going to the void to get the parts rather than having to farm the relics for hours and getting them in ridiculously low numbers because of the drop chances. Then having to farm not needed relics to get som traces to then upgrade ONE relic and go to the mission with others in my situation to get nothing in the end.

Edited August 25, 2016 by residente

[MordaxPraetorian]

The drop chances are much better on the new system

I have very sore memories of playing solo in the old system, running the same mission for hours on end without getting anything that was useful to me

Even solo, under the new system that doesn't happen

It is disappointing to make a relic Radient and still not get what you need, and it also sucks to have to run relics you have a stockpile of just to get Traces, and it sucks when the game gives a low number, especially several relics in a row

But in the end, none of that compares to the sheer boredom and despair of sitting in the void and doing the same thing over and over and getting nothing

And it's still quicker

[White_Matter]

You are far from reasonable my friend, to the extend that I know you have no idea what you are talking about.

You didn't even need a specific key to farm the void in the old system. You could be invited by other players. A single player was able to allow 3 others to tag along and get the loot without needing to have the key.

Now you have to farm for specific relics. But farming for the relics isn't the end. Its just the beginning. You farm for them, then you'll need to farm traces. That means at least 5 fissure missions to upgrade a relic to the max. Then you'll need to find 3 other people who have the same relic and the same upgrade level to maximize your chances. And the good part ? You can still end up getting nothing.

That happened to me twice with the AXI G1, which has the galatine BP, so far. 2x 8 waves of XINI. 200 traces. And I got paris prime blue print or some S#&$ I don't remember.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, MordaxPraetorian said:

The drop chances are much better on the new system

I have very sore memories of playing solo in the old system, running the same mission for hours on end without getting anything that was useful to me

Even solo, under the new system that doesn't happen

It is disappointing to make a relic Radient and still not get what you need, and it also sucks to have to run relics you have a stockpile of just to get Traces, and it sucks when the game gives a low number, especially several relics in a row

But in the end, none of that compares to the sheer boredom and despair of sitting in the void and doing the same thing over and over and getting nothing

And it's still quicker

i played for warframe more than you and i havent tired of viod tileset, evem more-i love that tileset. Void as its now is a useless place where you have no reason to go. Again-for solo players chances aint any better, all 10 runs that i run with new system i havent get what i was aimed for, and i tried every version of relic enchance. Since new system arrive i just log in, play sortie and log out, since there nothing to do. Warfrmae now have NO endgame, at all. New prime access with it power creep is useless, since there no reason for getting them coz now you face lvl 50 scrubs in starchart, at best.

[Salenstormwing]

Yeah, I'm with you, original poster. The new system is so much better. Even solo, the chances of getting a new drop are now 2% vs 1.5%, and since you can modify them, the chances are better. And even in PUGs, with 3 other folks, you have the chance at their 2% chances for something good, even if it's not something you want.

Heck, I got a Nekros Prime part last night and I didn't even have that relic yet. Someone else brought it. I was going after something else. But hey, Nekros Prime part, yay!

Seriously, does no one remember what the old system what like? Here, let me remind folks what it was like...

 

Prime Access Trailer - Part 2 goes into even more on why the old system sucked. No more farming the void constantly. Finally, I can explore the rest of the solar system once more!

[residente]

6 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

The drop chances are much better on the new system

The drop chances were adjusted with the new system. Rare items had a 5.64% drop chance before versus the 2% they have now on unrefined relics.

7 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

I have very sore memories of playing solo in the old system, running the same mission for hours on end without getting anything that was useful to me

This is enough to say that your post is not objective.

7 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

Even solo, under the new system that doesn't happen

You're doing some big assumption here.

8 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

But in the end, none of that compares to the sheer boredom and despair of sitting in the void and doing the same thing over and over and getting nothing

None of that compares? What about the sheer boredom and despair of sitting in hierachon doing the same thing over and over again just to get one or two relics you need for the new PA? 

I think it compares pretty well.

9 minutes ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

And it's still quicker

I'm seriously having the total opposite feeling.

[-CM-Hekovashi]

OP is just feels like pros override cons, for him, personally, and due to that he calls himself a "voice of reason", i call it a voice of subjective feelings.

[Salenstormwing]

15 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

For solo player this isn't any better-same low chances, now you forced to farm relics first, for EVERY new prime access aka all of your relics slockpiles are useless. We lost endless void mission and with that any actual rewarding endgame in warframe. You need to farm that fusion thing too and even if you enchant your relic to da max thats not gonna guarantee that you gonna get what you need. New void suck hard.

You should know that that the stockpiling of keys lead to the constant, complete, and total shifting of the drop tables all the f'n time for DE. I don't blame them for saying "Here, have some stable drop tables. We'll even tell you your odds. And you can adjust them if you want". No more do I have to worry that the T3 Defense C-Drop will be moved to T4 Intercept B, or that Intercept 4 A will get something different, or changed. No more keys in the drop table. No more fusion cores in the drop table! Oh gawds, no more keys and fusion cores in the drop table are great. How many times did you run a T1 Exterminate only to get a crappy T1 or T2 Exterminate key?

Yeah, you have to go get new keys, but you're playing the game now on more than just the Void tileset. I've visited more planets since the new update dropped on PC than I did in months leading up to it. And I've managed to get so many Primes completed that I was struggling to get, because they were RNGed behind high tier C-round drops that had a 1.5% chance drop.

I never have to worry about playing yet ANOTHER 40 minute T3 & T4 Surv mission in the mission to fail at getting 2 chances at the 1 drop I want.

[TheJadrimian]

Honestly I think back to all that time I spent in that same Void Defence tile going for rotation C over and over only to be disappointed and thank God we're done with the old system.

I still have a reason to do long endless missions on the game's hardest nodes – even longer ones now, since relics are in more than just rotation C so every time we hit it I don't ask: "can I really be bothered to go for the next 4 rounds?" But instead of going through the same old void maps I've got a bunch of options – I started out on Hieracon, but lately I've switched over to Cerberus with good results.

The time taken to actually run fissures feels relatively trivial, especially if a Capture fissure comes up, to the point where that stage of the process feels less like a grind and more like an interlude between the endless missions.

As for traces, I don't sweat 'em. Been running the ones with common or uncommon drops unaugmented to build up traces to use on those rare Axi drops.

 

In the end, I feel the time taken to get the primes hasn't changed all that noticeably – which I suspect is what DE would want, since they still want Prime Access to be attractive and retain its value. By extension, that means there's going to be a lot of people who have been unlucky thus far and blame the new system, because that's the correlation. But we've always had the same complaints, every time a new set of primes have released, and I rather suspect that's never going to change.

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

I loved the old system as a RPG Vetteran, it was mainly in the endloss missions a challenge that most knew of Dark Souls or Skyrim, if one imagines tasks that you really could not do. That what I have now are meaningless life long time boring missions without challenge and with less profit. I've lost about 1,000 keys that no one can replace me. It has become very difficult to find new parts, because I generally play solo and not forced will change anything. My conclusion is that I do not play the game until the system changes again. Before that I was good and like to put a few bills into it. I do not see why I should not do or play, my challenge for which I have built all my frames are gone.
But in order to bring it out to the point. I have in 4 months ALL frames can erfarmen easily. And many sets sold (determined by each 5 pieces) From Nekros I have not seen a fu``ìng part and feel of DE my many keys more than cheated. For me, the new system is the end of the game. What is a shame because the physics was unique. Now I play just back Tenchu or Shinobito on the classic consoles, if I have Ninja Action will.Warframe his character simply lost.

Edited August 25, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[(PSN)WetPollito]

Warframe became in Destiny!, yes. For solo players like me, is a mess.

I'm not saying it is bad... just I dont enjoy every mission like I used do.

 

 

 

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Just now, TheJadrimian said:

By extension, that means there's going to be a lot of people who have been unlucky thus far and blame the new system, because that's the correlation.

Another one who know whats better than the others-"pff, you hate new system? that coz you don't get stuff as fast as i do". What if i says to you that i HATE new system and i don't even try to farm stuff coz i simple i don't want them? I run new "Void" 10 times and i sick of it, even more-i quit playing warframe coz of it, i just log in for daily tribute and sortie, that never happens before.

[(XBOX)SLIM PR1ME]

This game is way different now.  I believe farming the relics first is a way for dev to get more money.  People are going to buy more prime access packs this way.  Then when old primes return to the game same thing will happen.  But a positive here is you still have relics containing old primes when they leave.  It's all a trade off.  I do like how you basically get a relic every 5 mins on ODS and a chance for core packs.  There is going to be positives and negatives to all.  This update makes it harder for new players.  Doing these junctions to unlock planets and nodes and such. 

 

I just hope if the game stays this way they at least bring in some try hard events for Void.  Example: 100 waves of defense equals a dojo trophy for try-hards.  At least this way we have a reason to have end game frames built.  As it stands now there is no end game.  Only more grinding of regular missions.  You can leave and come back as often as you like without the cost of a key.  Leaving no need to stay 40 waves or minutes.  One of my main reasons I love this game is the trade system.  I am MR22 and have around 2500 hours played.  I have around 15000 plat and buy almost every cosmetic thing i want on this game. I have seen trade values on prime parts and mostly everything else sink down to near bottom since the update.  Selling rare drop prime parts for good amounts of plat seem to be a thing of the past now. Making veteran players such as myself find other ways to earn plat.

[TheJadrimian]

23 minutes ago, -CM-Hekovashi said:

Another one who know whats better than the others-"pff, you hate new system? that coz you don't get stuff as fast as i do". What if i says to you that i HATE new system and i don't even try to farm stuff coz i simple i don't want them? I run new "Void" 10 times and i sick of it, even more-i quit playing warframe coz of it, i just log in for daily tribute and sortie, that never happens before.

Kindly don't try to twist my words. Let's be civil.

My point is that there have and always will be people who are dealt a bad hand by RNG and because this is the first real test of a new system, the system is easy to blame. However, correlation does not imply causation. Every time a new set of primes has been released there have been threads with horror stories of people running X amount of keys but still never finding part Y – see the vid Salenstormwing posted above.

Are the chances ultimately better or worse on the new system? I think it's about the same, but it's entirely up in the air at this point – it's only been, like, two days after all. Ultimately, however, I personally am having more fun with this system than I was in the void. If you don't enjoy it then that's okay, we'll have to agree to disagree. If you want to quit playing Warframe because of it, then goodbye.

Edited August 25, 2016 by TheJadrimian

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, RobWasHere said:

Yes, they are better when you have friends. Solo players would prefer old system with endless missions more.

Oh yeah, I would totally prefer staring at the same godam wall for hours and hours, getting Forma bps on Rot Cs or Cores, doing missions I don't like because grinding Survival and Def was boring as f*ck, on the same tileset, staring the same walls, the same enemies, no variation, not having any way to increase my odds other than grinding for longer time, on a boring tileset, away from the Spy missions I like. Yeah, I would totally prefer that to the new system, that let's me choose the missions I like to get Prime parts, that allows me to increase my odds, that doesn't force me to starte at the same boring walls, that allows me to play solo in peace with the warframe and weapons I want instead of dealing with a-holes and be forced to use specific cheesy  builds just to defend the useless cryopod in the defense missions I hate or to keep the radio towers.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)greensmaragd]

I see a solution which ensures each old would like players.
T4 def surv and interception Becomes a Prime Dropechance too. But from the complete pool. So you get this clever scheme, and can be pleased with the surprise as forecast just no accuracy has what is to come. For me that would be a compromise

Edited August 25, 2016 by (PS4)greensmaragd

[-Blaze-]

Ok, here is how i view the new system:

Void Keys vs Relics:

Farming Void Keys was way easier than to farm relics. This was the case because there where less different Keys than relics. And when a new Prime came the keys didn't change. Now you have to farm for the new relics.

The use of Voidkeys was different. It was possible to run a Void Mission with 4 people where everyone got at LEAST one reward. Now you have to take 4 relics so everyone can have a SINGLE reward. Imagine if you have had to use 4 Voidkeys to get a single reward. This leads to the next issue i see:

Farming Ducats:

It got way harder to collect 'junk' parts for ducat exchange. Where you always had several parts for ducats in thr old Void you now can only ever obtain one item. As long the prices for Baro Ki'teers items won't be reduced its just a pain to farm for ducats now.

Prime Droprate:

This is the only positiv change.

I like that you can refine your relics to have better odds at getting what you want. But this little light is nothing against the great darkness you have to walk through in order to actually go to open your relic.

As said, this is MY view.

[Sebrent]

What kills me is that people are complaining about how you not only need the Relic of a given Era but of a specific type as well to get the item you want ...

In the old system the keys dropped were of a given Tier and of a given mission type ... different missions at different tiers gave different items ... it's the same thing ... except, now, I have smaller loot tables and I can invest Traces in order to skew the loot table more towards the Rare item I need or more towards the [Un]Common item(s) I need.

[Salenstormwing]

3 hours ago, residente said:

The drop chances were adjusted with the new system. Rare items had a 5.64% drop chance before versus the 2% they have now on unrefined relics.

None of that compares? What about the sheer boredom and despair of sitting in hierachon doing the same thing over and over again just to get one or two relics you need for the new PA? 

I think it compares pretty well.

I'm seriously having the total opposite feeling.

Okay, I need to correct a few of the things you said...

1. Drop tables for "rares" was about 2%. It's still 2%, the only difference is now you can adjust it to up to 10% with void fragments. Also, some rares were trapped behind C-round drops, so you'd have to go 20 minutes to get a chance at your 2% chance. So even if you were to take a more positive 5.64% rate of drop, you're going to be looking at up to 4 times the amount of time to claim it, dropping your rate of 5.62% / 20min to a mere 1.45% / 5 minutes verses a current 2% / 5 minutes.

1b. Let's not forget that this doesn't include the potential of up to 3 other players. With coordination, you can have 4 people each with 10% at a rare item in about 5 minutes of work. And this gives you flexibility if everyone brings different keys, allowing you to claim parts you might not even have keys for yet. You don't have to farm everything yourself. If someone has the key, you can use your boring key, and if they get lucky, you can share in that luck.

2. Actually, in the old system, you'd have to farm for keys (like going to Hierachon), and then you'd have to take those keys to the void to do your farming there. And if you didn't like the mission you had to do in the void, you were double out of luck. And again, as stated in 1b., you don't have to farm for the key if someone else brings it. If they get an item you like, you can bum off of them. In effect, you can play to get an item you might not  have a relic for, but you do have a relic.

3. I've found the system to be more favorable to folks who are looking to be able to coordinate with others to do void fissures. The system isn't one set up to benefit the lone player. If you're a lone player, the system probably sucks. But, if you play it with 1 or 2 or even 3 other players, the system is AMAZING in how much faster you can gain parts. The thing is to not be an anti-social gamer and to use the Public matchmaking.

 

Either way, just my 2 cents on your analysis.

[Nazrethim]

26 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

The system isn't one set up to benefit the lone player. If you're a lone player, the system probably sucks.

I play Solo and for me this is amaizing, I can play the Solo missions I like instead of being stuck with randoms on Interceptions and Defense like the old void. Sure, I miss the extra chances of a full squad, but I can pause the game at any moment if something happens IRL, I don't have to deal with meta-recruiting or lack of Reactant. It's a pretty fair system that encourages teamplay without scr*wing the Solo player, like the old void did.

[-Blaze-]

34 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

2. Actually, in the old system, you'd have to farm for keys (like going to Hierachon), and then you'd have to take those keys to the void to do your farming there. And if you didn't like the mission you had to do in the void, you were double out of luck. And again, as stated in 1b., you don't have to farm for the key if someone else brings it. If they get an item you like, you can bum off of them. In effect, you can play to get an item you might not  have a relic for, but you do have a relic.

And now you farm for relics. Where is the difference?

Without relic no reward.

Before you didn't even need a single key, as long you had a friend that took you along in the mission using his key. And you always got at LEAST one reward, unlike now.

Edited August 25, 2016 by -Blaze-

[Salenstormwing]

Just now, -Blaze- said:

And now you farm for relics. Where is the difference?

Without relic no reward.

Before you didn't even need a single key, as long you had a friend that took you along in the mission using his key.

Now you have to play the game. Plus, keys weren't that hard to get. Now, all you need is a relic of the same type. If you can't bring yourself to even bring a relic to the game, that's your own fault. They aren't hard to get. The thing is they're not hard to get, even if you don't get the one you REALLY want. As long as SOMEONE brings one, you can in theory get it from them.

Think of this as growing a community and less of bumming a ride. Everyone pays a little to get a chance at good loot, and if one person wins, they all win.