Nullifiers the death of WF

[Sebrent]

@(XB1)Twinna25 I think that would depend on the type of utility. A buff ... put that with the defensives that are removed if the bubble touches the player ... in other words, make it a bubble that removes out buffs/persist abilities. Make sense?

@(PS4)FunyFlyBoy Ha, sure, but I've never needed them. Fix the outer parts and then spin the middle and you're done every time with Corpus ... Grineer are easy unless you have no reflexes.

@LabMan95 This is where several people are differing. You consider a Bombard and 2 Heavy Gunners inside a nullifier bubble as "less fun". I consider that as "more fun" as it is a greater challenge than usual and I love being challenged.

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Sebrent said:

 

@LabMan95 This is where several people are differing. You consider a Bombard and 2 Heavy Gunners inside a nullifier bubble as "less fun". I consider that as "more fun" as it is a greater challenge than usual and I love being challenged.

Well, the un-fun in this situation occurs when they are all 70+ and kill you with a sneeze.  Even that's do-able, until a half-dozen of these pile up and form a phalanx.  The problem is overtuned enemy levels, more than anything, and the broken powers and overtuned weapons that [wrongfully] justify them.  

[Troll_Logic]

3 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Well, the un-fun in this situation occurs when they are all 70+ and kill you with a sneeze.  Even that's do-able, until a half-dozen of these pile up and form a phalanx.  The problem is overtuned enemy levels, more than anything, and the broken powers and overtuned weapons that [wrongfully] justify them.  

I agree with Sebrent  the challenge makes the game more fun.  I was doing a 20/30 nightmare mode with 4 other players and they kept dropping the entire mission.  Know why?  Because they were used to the full speed run and gun way of simply steamrolling over every enemy, so when they were in a game where they actually had to use some strategy, not a lot mind you, but some, they simply couldn't.  They didn't want to max out their energy at the beginning.  They wanted to run into every room full speed without checking their health or looking to see what was in the room first.  They ran in full speed and dropped immediately.  They were used to every mission they played being a race.

I like the nullifiers.  I don't especially like when they overlap five of them and cover 20 enemies, but that's a fun challenge.  Certainly more fun than running full speed through every mission each time.

[RealPandemonium]

Just now, Troll_Logic said:

I agree with Sebrent  the challenge makes the game more fun.  I was doing a 20/30 nightmare mode with 4 other players and they kept dropping the entire mission.  Know why?  Because they were used to the full speed run and gun way of simply steamrolling over every enemy, so when they were in a game where they actually had to use some strategy, not a lot mind you, but some, they simply couldn't.  They didn't want to max out their energy at the beginning.  They wanted to run into every room full speed without checking their health or looking to see what was in the room first.  They ran in full speed and dropped immediately.  They were used to every mission they played being a race.

I like the nullifiers.  I don't especially like when they overlap five of them and cover 20 enemies, but that's a fun challenge.  Certainly more fun than running full speed through every mission each time.

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely fine with Nullifiers and agree that the challenge makes things more interesting.  My gripe is with excessive enemy levels in a system that wasn't designed with them in mind.  Any legitimate gripes with Nullifiers pretty much totally go away when you aren't dealing with Sortie/Raid tier of enemies.  

The only changes I would make to Nullifiers is to decrease the efficacy of fast-firing weapons and increase the efficacy of slow-firing weapons against the bubbles, such that they are both on equal footing.  The end result should be in between where autos and semi-autos are now.  

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

3 hours ago, Sebrent said:

 

@(PS4)FunyFlyBoy Ha, sure, but I've never needed them. Fix the outer parts and then spin the middle and you're done every time with Corpus ... Grineer are easy unless you have no reflexes.

This is true. Told many people this. Though, on console it's a little annoying because you have to hold your stick in a specific direction while spinning. Release too soon and you can easily screw up. Cipher for laziness!

[LabMan95]

9 hours ago, Sebrent said:

 

@LabMan95 This is where several people are differing. You consider a Bombard and 2 Heavy Gunners inside a nullifier bubble as "less fun". I consider that as "more fun" as it is a greater challenge than usual and I love being challenged.

With other people I agree completely. I like being challenged in a group, and more enemies should show up with more people. But level 60 bombards and heavy gunners in a nullifier eximus bubble by yourself isn't exactly fun, especially with the 3x damage multiplier DE never got rid of in the lv40+ void section. Running away is a good idea if you don't get caught in a blast proc and just die from the remaining damage being dealt by the gunner or the other bombard

[BlackCoMerc]

If I wanted to sit behind cover and peck away at shielded enemies with a combat rifle, I would play any of a half dozen better dedicated shooters than Warframe. Which is what I'm doing these days as a matter of fact.

But go ahead: keep robbing your own game of its one truly unique facet of game play. What could possibly go wrong?

[Destrab]

The way to stop cheese frames is to fix them so that they're fun but not cheesy, and make gameplay varied enough so that cheesing is less necessary. Nullies are a reasonable idea that went way too far.

[ShortCat]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

If I wanted to sit behind cover and peck away at shielded enemies with a combat rifle, I would play any of a half dozen better dedicated shooters than Warframe. Which is what I'm doing these days as a matter of fact.

But go ahead: keep robbing your own game of its one truly unique facet of game play. What could possibly go wrong?

Huh, you here? I thought you left after Smeeta nerf.

And if you think ability firework is the main/only unique feature of Warframe, you overestimate your judgement skills.

[Phoenixian_Ultimatum]

Nullifiers aren't even that bad. With a fast firing weapon (Soma (Prime), Akstilleto (prime) just to name two) and they'll go down quickly. Don't have one of those and they're closing in? Abandon you're little cubby hole for a few seconds run in there and slice him up, run back recast if needed. No recasting abilities isn't free, but unless you were going spam-happy on abilities you should have the energy to recast your precious snowglobe. If nothing else bring some energy restores to get that energy back and you'll be fine.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, Ninjahunter8020 said:

Nullifiers aren't even that bad. With a fast firing weapon (Soma (Prime), Akstilleto (prime) just to name two) and they'll go down quickly. Don't have one of those and they're closing in? Abandon you're little cubby hole for a few seconds run in there and slice him up, run back recast if needed. No recasting abilities isn't free, but unless you were going spam-happy on abilities you should have the energy to recast your precious snowglobe. If nothing else bring some energy restores to get that energy back and you'll be fine.

Yeah. By taking the same exact or incredibly similar load out to 90℅ of all missions the game is ok. It plays a lot like a generic shooter with some Parkour, offers nothing you can't get in a dozen better, dedicated shooters and is grossly repetitive...but hey, that's ok.

It's a feature.

[Troll_Logic]

16 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Yeah. By taking the same exact or incredibly similar load out to 90℅ of all missions the game is ok.

Again, the only person that makes you bring the same weapons is you.

[BlackCoMerc]

17 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

Again, the only person that makes you bring the same weapons is you.

And the Nullifiers. How many high RoF weapons do you think I bothered to Forma?

It's like your arguments are all just theory crafting. Apply them to the actual game (as opposed to your "I only spawned one non Eximus Nully" simulacrum run) played by a real player (not your hypothetical person with a half dozen multi forma high RoF weapons) and the fallacies stack up rather quickly, sir.

[Top_Kekkonen]

 

[RealPandemonium]

5 hours ago, LabMan95 said:

With other people I agree completely. I like being challenged in a group, and more enemies should show up with more people. But level 60 bombards and heavy gunners in a nullifier eximus bubble by yourself isn't exactly fun, especially with the 3x damage multiplier DE never got rid of in the lv40+ void section. Running away is a good idea if you don't get caught in a blast proc and just die from the remaining damage being dealt by the gunner or the other bombard

Good catch on the T4 x3 damage.  That's an often-ignored issue that just makes things unfun in T4 content.  

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

My quick two cents.

I don't like the fact nullifiers now dispel frost's snow globe... It dramatically lessens Frost's ability to hold points on the map and makes excavation needlessly more tedious than it used to be... I really hope DE will go back and revert that decision, it seriously sucks.

As for the enemy itself, I don't mind with most frames. I usually handle them by getting inside the bubble and shooting / meleeing the guy anyway, so I don't have to deal with shooting the actual bubble, just killing the guy inside it. I do care mostly when playing Ivara, since It feels like a huge setback to lose your invisibility and artemis bow at once, forcing you to get somewhere safe and reactivate them. It's especially annoying since prowl requires you to be walking and not running, and I always found it annoying to toggle on precisely because you can never quite figure out if you're "Walking" or not...

Personally, though, I still don't get why people complain daily about them when so many enemy are worse. Energy Drainer Eximus come out of nowhere and drain all your energy trough walls, combas disable your abilities while making your HUD unreadable out of nowhere and bursas do all sorts of terrible AOE / energy draining things. All and all, I feel pretty much all of the corpus enemies are tedious to fight and have huge, ugly bloom intensive auras that franklly make it hard to even understand what's going on.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 8/31/2016 at 1:22 PM, Sebrent said:

These exaggerations of it reducing the game to a horde shooter are just that ... exaggerations.

Those posts provide nothing as they are simply not true. I did today's Sortie with the Corpus Survival Eximus Stronghold during my lunch break since I'm blessed to get to work remotely from home. There were plenty of nullifiers, especially Eximus ones, and plenty of Arctis Eximus to pair with them as well (amongst other Eximus).

Did we complain? Nope. We adapted.

Did we use abilities? Heck yes. I used my abilities almost 200 times and another guy used his well over 200 (I was playing Trinity Prime and providing the energy for the party).

You know what other people did? They used their abilities as well. They also, if they weren't stupid, brought at least one high RoF weapon or planned on using melee to take out Nullifiers (i.e. they didn't take buff-dependent frames or made sure they had the power regen to recast often).

 

You play intelligently and you adapt ... or you die. If you don't like that, go play a game that caters to people that don't want to do these things. Given the current evidence, Warframe is trying to go in the direction of requiring players to actually play intelligent and adapt (i.e. use their brains) as, otherwise, we would not have these units, the streams with DE employees would say something along those lines, and we'd see things like nullifiers removed already. But we don't see that so either put on your big boy pants or go play something else.

 

With nullifiers you do have options. You can bring a high RoF secondary. You can melee them. Your party member(s) can handle them. There are tons of things that can be done.

If you remove things that require players to actually engage their brains while playing, then you make it so there is nothing they can do as if there is nothing to make me stop my 4-spam, AOE spam, or whatever other spam ... it remains stupid easy with no change. That gets monotonous / boring.

What if i prefer to play with Drakgoon, telos akbolto, fragor prime, and saryn? Theres no adapting. Nullys destroy any possibility of adapting to a mission. They tell u how u have to play...tell u what weapons to bring...make u change  ur playstyle. An NPC changes the way i want to play...one unit does this. 

 

Saryns "1"...cant penetrate a nully bubble

Saryns "2"..... useless when the field is blanketed with nullifiers

Saryns "3".... useless

Saryns "4"....not effective against nullifiers, and only effective if i can use my "1".

 

Drakgoon... Nope

Telos akbolto... Nope

Non glaive melee.... Nope

 

 

 

[(XBOX)GryffsDeadCorps]

On August 31, 2016 at 6:32 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

You know what else allows enemies to push close, and threaten players?

Proper game balance.

And that works in every mission, and without arbitrarily taking away our tools.

Guess that's just too much effort, though...

Here's the problem as I see it with "Proper game balance". It's about perception, what you think is proper isn't likely to be what I, or any other individual thinks is balanced. I would be willing to bet that whatever DE does would and will be met with scorn and mass complaints since it isn't what that individual believes is balanced. Take 10 or 100 or 1,000 people and put them in a room and you will be going around and around forever trying to come to a consensus that even 51% agree with. The greater the number of people involved, the less likely you are to ever come up with a solution that anyone is happy with. There is only one solution that I can think of and that is go to one frame, one set of weapons, as soon as there is more than one choice you will have one group complaining about the other.  I don't believe that there is any way to make anything other than a small group happy with the outcome. 

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

In others words, nullyfiers need a weakness point, by pass weapons or  trap weapons as castanas, they re not overpowered enemies solo, but this riculous nullyfiers spam provide a giant overpowered enemy  assault , try a corpus + fussure mission, totally impossible for low even midle lvls players, we saw more bubbles than hydromassage poll

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

And the Nullifiers. How many high RoF weapons do you think I bothered to Forma?

It's like your arguments are all just theory crafting. Apply them to the actual game (as opposed to your "I only spawned one non Eximus Nully" simulacrum run) played by a real player (not your hypothetical person with a half dozen multi forma high RoF weapons) and the fallacies stack up rather quickly, sir.

About the "theory crafting", I'm going to say this one more time.

I

PLAY

THE

GAME.
 

Got it?

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

What if i prefer to play with Drakgoon, telos akbolto, fragor prime, and saryn?

That's where your skill as a player shows.

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

Not every scenario is going to be the player rolling through the enemies without breaking stride.

[Troll_Logic]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)xKAIOWAx said:

try a corpus + fussure mission, totally impossible for low even midle lvls players,

Shouldn't some missions be "totally impossible" for mid level players?

Shouldn't some missions be impossible for low level players?

Doesn't it bother you that a level four player can roll through a third sortie mission?

Shouldn't there be a progression of difficulty in the missions?

[Troll_Logic]

1 hour ago, (PS4)xKAIOWAx said:

In others words, nullyfiers need a weakness point,

They have one.  Tenno are ridiculously OP in comparison to just about anything in the star map.

[Spergin_McBadposter]

How about not spamming 4 posts in a row into the thread. Thanks in advance.

[Troll_Logic]

5 minutes ago, Spergin_McBadposter said:

How about not spamming 4 posts in a row into the thread. Thanks in advance.

Because replying to every message in a single post would take so much less space.

How about not being so petty.  Thanks in advance.