To the big, talking heads at DE, please think before you speak

[Cray]

You announce that you are looking at Vacuum and experimenting with making it a universal mod, but with a twist.

You are deliberately vague about said twist, leading to a distinct lack of relevant information.

The community starts filling in the missing information based on their own experiences: The optimists look forward to the change wholeheartedly, the pessimists scream doom and gloom from the mountain tops, those in-between have hope for a side-grade, but are expecting the hard nerf.

The desire for Universal Vacuum, combined with this 'filling the missing pieces in' effect, amplifies the controversy caused by the vagueness, leaving a number of people worried.

 

Given how 'hot' a topic Universal Vacuum is, I ask that you don't jump the gun with announcements like this. If you can't give us info on the 3 new mods yet, then you shouldn't have said anything at all at this point. I understand a desire to keep us in the loop about things (especially since we actually want to be kept in the loop), but that works best when there's no room for misinterpretation.

FOR INSTANCE: I was not worried about the change from Cores to Endo, because you were upfront with the changes, and showed that our collection of Cores would still be worth the same, if not more. I may not have agreed with the increased credit cost compared to using R5s, but we knew about it going in, and I appreciated your transparency during that update.

I am very worried about Universal Vacuum. When you say 'split into 3 mods', does that mean you're adding 2 alternate versions while leaving the original version untouched, or destroying the original and making 3 completely new mods, all of which add up to the original? If the former, you will, in my opinion, solve about half a dozen problems in one fell swoop, and leave everyone coming back for more. If the latter, I fear that many people will come out of this very unhappy and disgruntled, resulting in the faces of several bystanders being 'socked'.

To make matters worse, I'm in the camp that says loot in general needs a complete overhaul, due to a number of issues with drops as they exist now, meaning either answer isn't completely satisfactory. (There are dozens of us!)

 

The thing to take away from all this is, before announcing a major change, ask yourselves if you're giving enough info, and remember that a single word can be the difference between mass rejoice and mass panic.

Edited September 17, 2016 by DeltaPhantom

[NovusNova]

Information was given in the Dev Stream overview.

"Universal Vacuum

This overview is guaranteed free of vacuum puns. Those who watched the Devstream were not so lucky. Why all the Dyson jokes? We’re adding Universal Vacuum, of course.

What we're playing with right now is this idea: Vacuum will be transformed into 3 new mods that can be used by any sentinel, with 3 different types of Vacuum:

· Health and Energy

· Credits and Ammo

· Mods, Endo, and Resources/Miscellaneous

Carrier and Carrier Prime will now be given a new precept, which buffs your Ammo Capacity (increasing with the precept level). Unused ammo types will be converted into the ammo of the currently equipped weapon over a small period of time."

[Guest]

Now Vacuum will take up 3 mod slots instead of one for both carrier and carrier p for future updates? 

Time to chuck both sentinels in the bin.

 

[ScorpioneITA]

 

Quote

Given how 'hot' a topic Universal Vacuum is, I ask that you don't jump the gun with announcements like this. If you can't give us info on the 3 new mods yet, then you shouldn't have said anything at all at this point.

The irony..... So why you making a huge post about it then?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

9 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Information was given in the Dev Stream overview.

"Universal Vacuum

This overview is guaranteed free of vacuum puns. Those who watched the Devstream were not so lucky. Why all the Dyson jokes? We’re adding Universal Vacuum, of course.

What we're playing with right now is this idea: Vacuum will be transformed into 3 new mods that can be used by any sentinel, with 3 different types of Vacuum:

· Health and Energy

· Credits and Ammo

· Mods, Endo, and Resources/Miscellaneous

Carrier and Carrier Prime will now be given a new precept, which buffs your Ammo Capacity (increasing with the precept level). Unused ammo types will be converted into the ammo of the currently equipped weapon over a small period of time."

Frankly, this sounds terrible. I can't even figure out why DE would do this. The same team that creates ridiculously overpowered items daily deemed vacuum too OP?

I didn't use Carrier, so it doesn't affect me, but this just makes no sense.

[That1Cactus]

Firstly, I'm pretty sure they think of these ideas for a long period of time before addressing them in Devstreams. As that is the way of development, something that obviously the developers do.

Secondly, this is nothing new if they are vague on an idea if they're either unsure of doing it or that it's in such an early stage that there is no concrete plan for it, which they do on Devstreams a lot.

Thirdly, they always announce big things in Devstreams first and then go on to tell us in the Forums and Overviews. Because that's what Devstreams do, they announce big things, and without the Devstreams we wouldn't know anything about The War Within or any other big update and it would seem like they were "jumping the gun".

So if anything to take from this, DE will announce things in the Devstreams about changes and additions, most of those announcements are either in a young stage that they can't really talk about it or that they are working on it but bound to be changed from their initial plan, and the community will do it's usual panic mode until DE posts more information about it.

They are clearly thinking before they are speaking, however this thread clearly didn't considering how many times stuff like this has happened.

 

[Vohim]

16 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Information was given in the Dev Stream overview.

"Universal Vacuum

This overview is guaranteed free of vacuum puns. Those who watched the Devstream were not so lucky. Why all the Dyson jokes? We’re adding Universal Vacuum, of course.

What we're playing with right now is this idea: Vacuum will be transformed into 3 new mods that can be used by any sentinel, with 3 different types of Vacuum:

· Health and Energy

· Credits and Ammo

· Mods, Endo, and Resources/Miscellaneous

Carrier and Carrier Prime will now be given a new precept, which buffs your Ammo Capacity (increasing with the precept level). Unused ammo types will be converted into the ammo of the currently equipped weapon over a small period of time."

well those are amazing changes  I'd love to see 

[Tizodd]

I can't even consider this a compromise.  I hate to say it, but it seems much more like DE's way of showing us who's in charge.

I REALLY don't understand why DE is so against innate area looting for all frames.  It would take absolutely nothing away from gameplay; it's not a programming issue because it's already in game via Vacuum; and it would make a large portion of their playerbase very happy.

This three mod thing is awful.  Please just let us have what we want this time with no strings attached.  Innate area looting isn't anything game changing, nor is it something that could be considered OP at any point.  It's a simple quality of life change that players have been begging for, for a long time now.

[Azrael]

15 minutes ago, JerechoNC said:

Dozensssssss!!!!

Yeah! Dozens! I count... let's see... 1... 2... 3... yep! that's at least a couple dozen right here!

[motorfirebox]

Ooh, a thread filled with panic based on scant information. It must be Friday...

[blackheartstar_pc]

21 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

You announce that you are looking at Vacuum and experimenting with making it a universal mod, but with a twist.

You are deliberately vague about said twist, leading to a distinct lack of relevant information.

The community starts filling in the missing information based on their own experiences: The optimists look forward to the change wholeheartedly, the pessimists scream doom and gloom from the mountain tops, those in-between have hope for a side-grade, but are expecting the hard nerf.

Given how 'hot' a topic Universal Vacuum is, I ask that you don't jump the gun with announcements like this. If you can't give us info on the 3 new mods yet, then you shouldn't have said anything at all at this point. I understand a desire to keep us in the loop about things (especially since we actually want to be kept in the loop), but that works best when there's no room for misinterpretation.

Maybe they just mentioned it intentionally vague to gather feedback from us on their current thoughts. It's not out yet. Just the leading idea why not gather how the player base feels about it before thrusting it upon us?

[NovusNova]

Removed off-topic posts.

If you wish to discuss the Carrier changes proposed in Dev Stream 80, do so here: 

 

[(XBOX)Skode]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)WiiConquered said:

Frankly, this sounds terrible. I can't even figure out why DE would do this. The same team that creates ridiculously overpowered items daily deemed vacuum too OP?

I didn't use Carrier, so it doesn't affect me, but this just makes no sense.

Carrier Vacuum became so meta over 90% of high MR players were using it - that's an issue. The change makes sense - not everyone gets 100% easy peazy vacuum for all items without at least some sort of drawback yet vacuum as a mechanic doesn't just outright get removed. It's a compramise, only complaint is they waited so long to look at it - people have gone years never having to pick up loot... they're freaking out over this lol

[IamRageypoo]

Honestly I'd rather be able to click on a match and actually have it find a group without bugging out over and over again than to have universal vacuum. 

[ScorpioneITA]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

I really dont think vacuum should be universal... seriously

 

Functionality or Damage not both.

Sacrifice damage from a lesser entity so you can loot as without hassle should definatly be left alone. But vacuum can be great at times especially depending on the frame. Being able to Nekros close range - desicrate & auto loot health is highly effective. (Oberon also has a health orb drop on death function - carrier making him more playable than some choose to believe)

But if more companions can do this select frames can be more relyable (but like nerfed due to this) Auto loot invisble Ember that kills everything without combat (assuming shade had vacuum) looting energy through rooms... may as well make energy cost plat to regen the game would be to easy.

I may be looking at this wrong but my only real assumption is people are mad that they forget to loot something and groupmate gloats that they got it. Build Carrier, Never Unequipt it. This pertains to memory issues (in real life). And adding something like this will only increase your zombie like reflexes.

... why are you looking at sentinels for damage? xD

Doesn't carrier nekros already do that anyway?

The scenarios you mentioned won't change the standard missions pubs by much.

If anything allows more creativity and usage of other sentinels.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ScorpioneITA

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

10 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

... why are you looking at sentinels for damage? xD

Doesn't carrier nekros already do that anyway?

The scenarios you mentioned won't change the standard missions pubs by much.

If anything allows more creativity and usage of other sentinels.

Sorry I flew around a bit. But even a three part vacuum is OP AF on shade no matter the frame. You know how many abilities can be used while under shade's cloak? I expect irrational nerfs left & right because of this.

Also you would be suprised at a heavily modded shotgun sentinal's (primed mods) power. Atlas can loot petrify almost endlessly while Carrier loot heal/energy + Headshotgun critgod armies of stone

Edited September 17, 2016 by (XB1)Evilpricetag

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)Skode said:

Carrier Vacuum became so meta over 90% of high MR players were using it - that's an issue. The change makes sense - not everyone gets 100% easy peazy vacuum for all items without at least some sort of drawback yet vacuum as a mechanic doesn't just outright get removed. It's a compramise, only complaint is they waited so long to look at it - people have gone years never having to pick up loot... they're freaking out over this lol

It makes no sense from a mechanical standpoint, though. Either players are able to collect items without having to run to them, or they're having to go collect items. If they only grab some with the mod, they still have to run over and collect those items.

If they made Vacuum a sentinel weapon that does almost no damage but functionally grabs items, I'd be okay with that. If they increased the standard range for item pickup, making Vacuum redundant to some, I'd be okay with that. Even if 90% of the playerbase used Vacuum as a mod, I don't really think it's a problem: Vacuum doesn't affect game balance in any meaningful way, unlike Serration or the Synoid Simulor or Bladestorm.

[Cray]

44 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

· Health and Energy

· Credits and Ammo

· Mods, Endo, and Resources/Miscellaneous

Oh look, information that wasn't actually given to us in the devstream, but was given after a bunch of threads started popping up! Seriously, we weren't even told to wait for a workshop post.

 

And we still don't have enough. Are we limited to one? Can we do all at once? How will the change be done? Will our supply of spare vacuums be divided into 3 and converted into each of the new mod, or will we have to go searching for 2 of them? What if we don't have any spares?

 

Do you see my point yet, or is my original message still falling on deaf ears?

[NovusNova]

Just now, DeltaPhantom said:

Oh look, information that wasn't actually given to us in the devstream, but was given after a bunch of threads started popping up! Seriously, we weren't even told to wait for a workshop post.

Not a Developer Workshop post. A Dev-Stream overview which they always do after each dev stream and written soon after the dev stream, bunch of threads or not.

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-80-overview

[ScorpioneITA]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

Sorry I flew around a bit. But even a three part vacuum is OP AF on shade no matter the frame. You know how many abilities can be used while under shade's cloak? I expect irrational nerfs left & right because of this.

How is it op? You overvalue vacuum and stealth.

You can do that with carrier and ivara + any frame atm. That didn't create an ivara nerf.

Plus youre assuming you can equip all 3 mods. if you can, atleast requires some forma in shade etc.

Kavat is still superior and underrated.

[Cray]

Just now, NovusNova said:

Not a Developer Workshop post. A Dev-Stream overview which they always do after each dev stream and written soon after the dev stream, bunch of threads or not.

https://warframe.com/news/devstream-80-overview

I know it's not a workshop post. The point is we weren't told this information would be coming so soon. If they had said 'We'll have more info after the stream', that would have been enough. Instead, we get ninja info from a news post that I'm willing to bet a lot of people didn't see, because they weren't looking for it.

[shyguyk]

People are so lazy that they want all the benefits of vacuum at no cost?

I might actually run the health/energy orb mod if they make the three exilus (as they should). And now i can run it while still having my helios or prisma shade.

You can all play mag if this bothers you so much. jeez.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

4 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

How is it op? You overvalue vacuum and stealth.

You can do that with carrier and ivara + any frame atm. That didn't create an ivara nerf.

Plus youre assuming you can equip all 3 mods. if you can, atleast requires some forma in shade etc.

Kavat is still superior and underrated.

As stated originally. Ember can activly use all her abilities under shade vacuum only ignites (pun) her everlasting power. & with the right mods Enemies & allies easily would get toppled/topple galaxies while never being spotted. Because of vacuums fueling the frame.

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

11 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

I know it's not a workshop post. The point is we weren't told this information would be coming so soon. If they had said 'We'll have more info after the stream', that would have been enough. Instead, we get ninja info from a news post that I'm willing to bet a lot of people didn't see, because they weren't looking for it.

I might be blowing some of this out of perportion, but your point is valid. I accidentilly missinform my clan quite often due to this. Rumor has it!

[ScorpioneITA]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Evilpricetag said:

As stated originally. Ember can activly use all her abilities under shade vacuum only ignites (pun) her everlasting power. & with the right mods Enemies & allies easily would get toppled/topple galaxies while never being spotted. Because of vacuums fueling the frame.

So? Ember is no where near op LOL

You aren't going to use ember in an endless mission, farming scenario, raid or anything important really. So if people wanna have some fun with ember in other starmap tiles why not?

Also it wouldn't be an issue because in the scenarios I mentioned people bring trinity, dps and cc. the CC automatically making shade null.