Synoid Heliocor why does it break the mold?!

[TaylorsContraction]

The problem is not the passive specre, but that summons, all summons suck in this game. I plan to make a separate thread with ideas on how we can improve spectres / summons beyond simply being a distraction to the enemies.

Imagine if summons / spectres could actually deal damage (or do something useful), then this weapon would be very good. You're all complaining about the wrong problem, s. Heliocor is fine, but summons are poop, even nekro summons.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 9/16/2016 at 11:48 PM, Demogarose said:

First off, the DPS of the Synoid is actually HIGHER than the base Heliocor (120x1.08=129.6, 140x0.833=116.62) when not accounting for Crits

The Synoid then trades Crit for Status Chance, and I for one am ok with that. I just mod for Viral and swap Blood Rush out for Weeping Wounds and boom, done.

This

 

Also all of the Current Synoid variants of Cephalon weapons have less max raw damage but higher DPS.

Gammacor has higher base damage but less DPS than Synoid Gammacor.

Regular Simulor has higher max Orb explosion damage compared to Synoid Simulor, but worse DPS.

So Synoid Heliocor is just following theme ;)

 

[Autongnosis]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

So Synoid Heliocor is just following theme ;)

Synoid Heliocor is only following the theme if you magically forget about that small thing called critical chance that on the standard Heliocor makes your total damage skyrocket to 3.3 times the base after 5 strikes, without having to burn your energy in the meanwhile, and gets better the more combo you have, compared to channel damage which gets worse.

 

If that argument made any sense, the Kraken and the Sicarus would have more DPS than the Soma Prime, because:

• Soma prime 12 * 15 = 180
• Kraken 45 * 4.42 = 198.9
• Sicarus 30 * 7.39 = 221.7

#Sicarus_is_top_tier_and_we_never_knew

Edited September 21, 2016 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)MrNishi]

32 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

Synoid Heliocor is only following the theme if you magically forget about that small thing called critical chance that on the standard Heliocor makes your total damage skyrocket to 3.3 times the base after 5 strikes, without having to burn your energy in the meanwhile, and gets better the more combo you have, compared to channel damage which gets worse.

 

If that argument made any sense, the Kraken and the Sicarus would have more DPS than the Soma Prime, because:

• Soma prime 12 * 15 = 180
• Kraken 45 * 4.42 = 198.9
• Sicarus 30 * 7.39 = 221.7

#Sicarus_is_top_tier_and_we_never_knew

My bad, you are correct.

I was assuming with both having Red Crits and same crit Multiplier:

Synoid Variant is faster and can utilize a Gas Status build for Stealth Multiplier

At the 3x+ Multiplier (due to needed amount to reach next tier) Helicor will out DPS Synoid Heliocor; status aside*

 

Red Crit via: Blood Rush, Maiming Strike, Charm, Cat's Eye, Arcane Avenger

Crit chance boosters applied to melee seem to be more forgiving of weapon's base crit chance. In comparison to low status remaining as low status even with Mods, Companions, or Arcane enhancements

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by (PS4)MrNishi

[UrbanShade]

9 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

My bad, you are correct.

I was assuming with both having Red Crits and same crit Multiplier:

Synoid Variant is faster and can utilize a Gas Status build for Stealth Multiplier

At the 3x+ Multiplier (due to needed amount to reach next tier) Helicor will out DPS Synoid Heliocor; status aside*

  Hide contents

Red Crit via: Blood Rush, Maiming Strike, Charm, Cat's Eye, Arcane Avenger

Crit chance boosters applied to melee seem to be more forgiving of weapon's base crit chance. In comparison to low status remaining as low status even with Mods, Companions, or Arcane enhancements

 

Its not so good for status. Damn. its BAD for status. Good status weapons are pure elemental ones - Serro, Lecta, Basolk, Lacera. Weapons with physical damage will proc physical statuses way more often, than elemental ones. There's hidden thing in formula with physical procs. Why alot of players like physical statuses? Because of Slash and bleeding proc. Are, there, on SyHelio notable slash damage worth modding for? No...

If u want to use banshee/excal/oberon/inaros/mirage trick with blind, so gas proc will got awesome ticks, better to use pure elemental status oriented weapons, that i named before. Even other ones, maybe im forget something. But SyHelio cant be that effective, as u can think, its just mediocre hammer with inconvinient passive

[(PSN)MrNishi]

34 minutes ago, UrbanShade said:

Its not so good for status. Damn. its BAD for status. Good status weapons are pure elemental ones - Serro, Lecta, Basolk, Lacera. Weapons with physical damage will proc physical statuses way more often, than elemental ones. There's hidden thing in formula with physical procs. Why alot of players like physical statuses? Because of Slash and bleeding proc. Are, there, on SyHelio notable slash damage worth modding for? No...

If u want to use banshee/excal/oberon/inaros/mirage trick with blind, so gas proc will got awesome ticks, better to use pure elemental status oriented weapons, that i named before. Even other ones, maybe im forget something. But SyHelio cant be that effective, as u can think, its just mediocre hammer with inconvinient passive

Physical Procs are weighted more heavily than Elemental - yes

That does not disqualify them as being viable for 100% status builds. 

May not be as reliable as Pure Elementals, but they still work.

Higher Slash damage doesn't increase the Bleed proc ..Bleed Proc is based on scaled base damage

Having more Slash than another physical damage type just increases the ratio of chance of Proccing Bleed status.

You would still be more likely to land Bleed and Elemental Procs  with a 100% status impact -bias Hammer than a Jawsword/Skana/Cronus/insert rather low status Slash bias melee weapon.

You are correct that it is not as ideal as Elemental only melee weapons for Status preferability!

Edited September 22, 2016 by (PS4)MrNishi

[UrbanShade]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Physical Procs are weighted more heavily than Elemental - yes

That does not disqualify them as being viable for 100% status builds. 

May not be as reliable as Pure Elementals, but they still work.

Higher Slash damage doesn't increase the Bleed proc ..Bleed Proc is based on scaled base damage

Having more Slash than another physical damage type just increases the ratio of chance of Proccing Bleed status.

You would still be more likely to land Bleed and Elemental Procs  with a 100% status impact -bias Hammer than a Jawsword/Skana/Cronus/insert rather low status Slash bias melee weapon.

Well, i need to look at wiki for slash proc, because i noticed, that weapons, that have damage in closer ranges, will still proc more deadlier bleed ticks, if their slash is higher. Dont know actually, maybe its my wrong observation, but return to topic. Yes, it can reach 100% status. But for what reason? Wrong tool for wrong job. So, im still think, that DEvs need to change Helio and SyHelio damages to magnet type, to follow theme of syndicate and whole set of weapons. Anyway, both weapons are impact heavy, and impact is good against shield, same as magnet. But it will be way easier to make it proc wanted status, instead of physical one

[Autongnosis]

7 hours ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

Physical Procs are weighted more heavily than Elemental - yes

That does not disqualify them as being viable for 100% status builds. 

May not be as reliable as Pure Elementals, but they still work.

The problem with that is that status melee need at least two out of this list to work properly:

• high status chance
• high attack speed
• high reach
• base elemental damage
• slash bias

The heliocor only has the status chance. It's got terrible range, it's a hammer so it's attack speed is so bad even when fully stacked compared to other categories, it's Impact based which has the added bonus of pushing targets away from your pitiful reach eachtime it procs...

The concept of a status hammer is indeed fine. It's its execution in the Synoid Heliocor that really didn't work out...

 

IE, the Jat Kittag is a lot better as a status hammer, due to the fact that it has way higher damage potential (5% extra crit chance would do miracles for the Synoid Heliocor) and reach, on top of better status. Really, if they just made the SynHeliocor a Jat Kittag in every stat bar crit chance and Magnetic base damage it would've been a wonderful weapon...

Edited September 22, 2016 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)Crixus044]

They could've lessen the damage to 130 at least. That'll make it a contender with a cool affect, but still less damaging than the simaris variant.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

2 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

IE, the Jat Kittag is a lot better as a status hammer, due to the fact that it has way higher damage potential (5% extra crit chance would do miracles for the Synoid Heliocor) and reach, on top of better status. Really, if they just made the SynHeliocor a Jat Kittag in every stat bar crit chance and Magnetic base damage it would've been a wonderful weapon...

I have a feeling everyone, including myself, wanted the Synoid Heliocor to be a similar contender to the Jat Kittag with the same functionality but with Magnetic Damage instead of Blast for slam attacks. Really, seriously, utmost honestly, our dreams were utterly crushed when this was not the case.

Edited September 22, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23