Who even uses charge attacks ?

[Nagasadri]

Melee 2.0 is one of the best thing that happened to this game, but it made it without charged attacks. I miss those.
Sure, they were re-implemented later but the forced normal attack before charged attacks ruins it. It slows you down to a crawl before you even start charging, and they hardly compensates for the downtime. Even if they did, I'd still not use them because of how wrong it feels. My character just doesn't look like he's doing what i tell him to.

Sure, I've seen the devstreams and they said it wasted time before normal attacks...but sparing 0.01 second before normal attacks to punish charged attacks with almost a full second of doing nothing doesn't seem any more "responsive" while making charged attacks impractical and clunky. It might complicate things that we have stances now, but it's really worth the additional work to pull charged attacks from gimmicky weirdness to viable glory (and with a more long-term solution than band-aid type "solutions" such as the sancti magistar). At least as an option if anyone notices a delay before normal attacks (which i really don't) and wants to keep the new system.

Do you guys really used charged attacks before this weapon ? Does anyone that played back in melee 1.0 prefers the new system ?

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

To say I miss the old charge attacks doesn't do it justice. In their current state, they're useless and in some instance will get you killed.

Edited September 17, 2016 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[ScorpioneITA]

I use them.

Some combos require you to use them.

Why slam E 3times when I can just charge attack?

It's a situational thing that's all

Edited September 17, 2016 by ScorpioneITA

[ashrah]

before this changes i used charge attacks.... but now they feel very  clunky...i feel devs fix 1 thing and mess up 10 others things every time like that

[DiosGX]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

To say I miss the old charge attacks doesn't do it justice. In their current state, they're useless and in some instance will get you killed.

You can block while charging.

[Nagasadri]

1 minute ago, ScorpioneITA said:

I use them.

Some combos require you to use them.

Why slam E 3times when I can just charge attack?

True, but why slow down to a crawl, swing a normal attack, wait almost a second while still slowed and THEN perform a strong attack while you could just start charging while running towards your target and chop it in half without so much downtime ?

[ScorpioneITA]

5 minutes ago, DiosGX said:

You can block while charging.

I forgot to mention this key factor.

4 minutes ago, Nagasadri said:

True, but why slow down to a crawl, swing a normal attack, wait almost a second while still slowed and THEN perform a strong attack while you could just start charging while running towards your target and chop it in half without so much downtime ?

Not sure what weapons you are using for charge attacks. Regardless in some situation I'm better with charge than normal hence why I personally use them and quiet often I must add. (you are doing atleast 3x more damage. that's with swords. some weapons have more some less)

Also allows easier headshots.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ScorpioneITA

[Nagasadri]

1 minute ago, ScorpioneITA said:

Not sure what weapons you are using for charge attacks. Regardless in some situation I'm better with charge than normal hence why I personally use them and quiet often I must add.

Fair point. That answers my first question, but what about the second ? Did you play with melee 1.0 ? Wouldn't you like to be able to charge while sprinting without swinging your weapon beforehand like it worked before ?

[ScorpioneITA]

4 minutes ago, Nagasadri said:

Fair point. That answers my first question, but what about the second ? Did you play with melee 1.0 ? Wouldn't you like to be able to charge while sprinting without swinging your weapon beforehand like it worked before ?

I am a human I live to adapt. Sure the old system was more friendly to use. This one is more effective and easier to use when you get the hang of it with blocking + extra damage

 

Forgot to mention that with channeling + charge and a decent weapon.. your damage is.. phewwwwww high.

Edited September 17, 2016 by ScorpioneITA

[Nagasadri]

3 minutes ago, ScorpioneITA said:

I am a human I live to adapt. Sure the old system was more friendly to use. This one is more effective and easier to use when you get the hang of it with blocking + extra damage

Uh ? How is this system more effective or how does it deal extra damage compared to the old one ? It wasn't just more friendly to use, but more practical and above all else more responsive. It just felt so right. I guess we would need an option to chose since apparently you like this one better.

[ScorpioneITA]

4 minutes ago, Nagasadri said:

Uh ? How is this system more effective or how does it deal extra damage compared to the old one ? It wasn't just more friendly to use, but more practical and above all else more responsive. It just felt so right. I guess we would need an option to chose since apparently you like this one better.

Well a charge attack with a fragor prime does x4.5 damage i recall. Channeling 1.8x bonus for hammers. Works pretty swell for me since I love that weapon the most. It's probably not as good for other weapons. Especially combo users.

[Drufo]

I played with melee 1.0 and I have to say it: the charged attacks we have now are nothing compared to those. I think DE rushed a bit their reintroduction, and some weapon felt more the change (glaives and weapon with added mechanics tied to charge attacks). IMO they should fix them by 1)removing the attack before the charge 2)fix the interference with "hold" combos 3)make charge speed proportional to attack speed. If they do that charged attacks will be funny (and practical) once again.

[Racter]

I didn't get to use the old charge attacks but I absolutely don't use them now, not even with the weapons/stances that require them. I can kill 2 3 5 10 mobs in the time it takes to charge one, without risking my combo counter or life, why would I ever bother with them?

[Nagasadri]

On 9/17/2016 at 11:46 PM, Drufo said:

I played with melee 1.0 and I have to say it: the charged attacks we have now are nothing compared to those. I think DE rushed a bit their reintroduction, and some weapon felt more the change (glaives and weapon with added mechanics tied to charge attacks). IMO they should fix them by 1)removing the attack before the charge 2)fix the interference with "hold" combos 3)make charge speed proportional to attack speed. If they do that charged attacks will be funny (and practical) once again.

I think we all agree about the fact that the first attack has to go (i have yet to meet anyone that supports the contrary).

I didn't think all that much about charge speed, but now that you mention it since the mods that improved it are gone, the suggestion to make it scale directly on attack speed makes a lot of sense. Thanks !

[TaylorsContraction]

I use charge attacks, certain weapons have very fast charge attacks, like daggers, whips and gunblades. They're pretty awesome and have guaranteed as far as  know kd effects. You can move while charging thus while approaching enemies you can charge an attack and start the engagement off with a charged attack which often is devastating on its own.

[DoomFruit]

I do not use charge attacks at all for two reasons. 1 = you need to be in melee mode, screw that, 2 = they take forever to start, the forced normal attack does not help matters, and you can't accelerate charge speed.

I never once noticed a delay in melee 1.0 when doing normal attacks. I have no idea why DE are using that as an excuse.

[Lyravain]

On 17/9/2016 at 11:56 PM, Nagasadri said:

Melee 2.0 is one of the best thing that happened to this game, but it made it without charged attacks. I miss those.
Sure, they were re-implemented later but the forced normal attack before charged attacks ruins it. It slows you down to a crawl before you even start charging, and they hardly compensates for the downtime. Even if they did, I'd still not use them because of how wrong it feels. My character just doesn't look like he's doing what i tell him to.

Sure, I've seen the devstreams and they said it wasted time before normal attacks...but sparing 0.01 second before normal attacks to punish charged attacks with almost a full second of doing nothing doesn't seem any more "responsive" while making charged attacks impractical and clunky. It might complicate things that we have stances now, but it's really worth the additional work to pull charged attacks from gimmicky weirdness to viable glory (and with a more long-term solution than band-aid type "solutions" such as the sancti magistar). At least as an option if anyone notices a delay before normal attacks (which i really don't) and wants to keep the new system.

Do you guys really used charged attacks before this weapon ? Does anyone that played back in melee 1.0 prefers the new system ?

I never had the pleasure of playing back on Melee 1.0. What I do know however is when we DID have charged attacks in Melee 2.0 for Glaives and Redeemers, I never had an issue with responcive attacks. I hit the button, something died closeby. I held the button, something died far away. Frankly, I need to agree with you -charge attacks are a gimmick that no one uses, unfortunately D:

[Nagasadri]

On 9/29/2016 at 5:13 AM, TaylorsContraction said:

I use charge attacks, certain weapons have very fast charge attacks, like daggers, whips and gunblades. They're pretty awesome and have guaranteed as far as  know kd effects. You can move while charging thus while approaching enemies you can charge an attack and start the engagement off with a charged attack which often is devastating on its own.

Yes, you can move towards enemies while charging attacks...at walking pace for 90% of this game's weapons.

We used to be able to charge it while sprinting/sliding towards enemies with every single one of them and without needing to swing in the air beforehand.
It's true that thrown weapons and gunblades are effective with charged attacks thanks to their ranges and other effects, but they remain a very small minority.

I'm not saying the current system is all bad and should be thrown away, i'm just implying it could be better as we KNOW it can thanks to the fact the devs DID make charge attacks work much better a while back. I'm not only talking about usefulness, but also aesthetics and fun-factor. Stopping mid-sprint to swing at nothing before charging an attack looks pretty useless and cuts me off my own warframe's control for too long to justify using it most of the time. It feels simply off.

[KirukaChan]

I miss the way thrown melee charge attacks handled in Melee 1.0. Kestrel used to be my favorite weapon until Melee 2.0 came along, and with the re-introduction of charge attacks, thrown melee got screwed even more.

[Insizer]

I use charge attacks all the time... with thrown and shooting melees... other than that charge attacks are a revival of a decent system but done in such a poor way that it conflicts with Melee 2.0. They should just be removed from the game or made to be like the old charging system.

[Ranbanein]

The only use of Charge attacks I see now are on the Sancti Magistar so you can sub out Life Strike for another mod to keep yourself alive and increase damage out put. Otherwise Charge Attacks are pointless and the mod availability to work with them is none. 

[Zzz-Somnus-zzZ]

Personally I only use it on the gunblades. Love that Redeemer spray...plus, no need for reloading. Guess DE has picked up on the fact that charge atks aren't as popular as it was in melee 1.0 so thats why some mods (empowered blades) were introduced to encourage its use. 

However, its still relatively situational as its not exactly very helpful in speedrunning stuff i guess.

[DoomFruit]

8 hours ago, Black-chameleon said:

Personally I only use it on the gunblades. Love that Redeemer spray...plus, no need for reloading. Guess DE has picked up on the fact that charge atks aren't as popular as it was in melee 1.0 so thats why some mods (empowered blades) were introduced to encourage its use. 

That doesn't encourage charge attacks, it actively discourages them. It's the only aura which has negative effects - and since it's on an aura, you're punishing the entire squad. If charge attacks weren't so utterly pointless and actually got used, it would be a powerful griefing tool.

EDIT: in summary, DE doesn't want charge attacks to be used. The deck is intentionally stacked against them in multiple ways - mediocre damage, enormous charge times with no way to increase the charge speed, an enforced clumsy swing before you charge (which, despite what they say, is not necessary - the glaive and redeemer did not have this when melee 2.0 came out. DE had to explicitly nerf those two weapon classes to bring them in line with the rest of the melee weapons) and the requirement to be in crappy melee mode to use them. Melee 1.0 did not have any of these restrictions.

There are plenty of other things in this game which they want to push people away from - the recent buff to nullifiers is another example. People were using too many different weapons, so they went and nerfed their utility (eg. glaives, penta, castanas can no longer be detonated inside the bubble) so that people wouldn't have to use anything other than soma (at a distance) or nikana (up close, no point in taking special melee weapons like glaives when their utility has been explicitly killed).

Edited October 1, 2016 by DoomFruit

[Fomiru]

Charge attacks having unique effects for each weapon, such as the Sancti Magistar's heal or the Obex/Kogake''s charge attack opening up enemies to finishers, is the direction charge attacks should take.  Additional damage is nice, but additional effects is what will make charge attacks a useful addition to a stance.

[Dogefighter]

On 9/17/2016 at 4:56 PM, Nagasadri said:

Melee 2.0 is one of the best thing that happened to this game, but it made it without charged attacks. I miss those.
Sure, they were re-implemented later but the forced normal attack before charged attacks ruins it. It slows you down to a crawl before you even start charging, and they hardly compensates for the downtime. Even if they did, I'd still not use them because of how wrong it feels. My character just doesn't look like he's doing what i tell him to.

Sure, I've seen the devstreams and they said it wasted time before normal attacks...but sparing 0.01 second before normal attacks to punish charged attacks with almost a full second of doing nothing doesn't seem any more "responsive" while making charged attacks impractical and clunky. It might complicate things that we have stances now, but it's really worth the additional work to pull charged attacks from gimmicky weirdness to viable glory (and with a more long-term solution than band-aid type "solutions" such as the sancti magistar). At least as an option if anyone notices a delay before normal attacks (which i really don't) and wants to keep the new system.

Do you guys really used charged attacks before this weapon ? Does anyone that played back in melee 1.0 prefers the new system ?

I think the only charge attacks I use are with Brutal Tide and Final Harbinger, because thigh-crushing and shield-throwing respectively

Unless the shield throw and super spin combo isn't the charge attack, in which case meh