Should DE Make All Tactical Alerts + Events Available All The Time, Similar To How They Plan On Making Quests Replayable?

[Ryme]

9 minutes ago, Mcl_BlueMadness said:

What? A lot of them didn't even have any lore.

They were used as testbeds to introduce or test new mechanics or ideas. The lore behind them was essentially "Hey, the enemy is introducing this new thing. Go blow it up for a shiny" Depending player reaction and performance, it was either incorporated into the general game (Oxium Osprey and Manics) or they're removed and never heard from again (Scorpions w/ Toxin damage on their lines).

Edited September 28, 2016 by Ryme

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Literally every single tactical alert has valuable lore?

So I can mention even one that doesn't, you're refuted?

 

Very first one, no lore.

Second one, no lore.

Third... no lore. And so on.

If they have lore, then there should be some implementation of them. But I can't actually see one here that does save perhaps Project Undermine.

Thousand Cuts had Teshin talking smack about our blade skills, and then rewarding us with a Machete blueprint. That's useful lore there. It's one of the reasons my Operator is going to emit the very faintest sigh of satisfaction when enjoying a tea ceremony using Teshin's helmet as a tiny little table.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Thousand Cuts had Teshin talking smack about our blade skills, and then rewarding us with a Machete blueprint. That's useful lore there. It's one of the reasons my Operator is going to emit the very faintest sigh of satisfaction when enjoying a tea ceremony using Teshin's helmet as a tiny little table.

Ah yes. My bad. Forgot evidence that Teshin is a knob counted as lore. Will edit in to previous post.

[Master-Nachash]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Literally every single tactical alert has valuable lore?

So I can mention even one that doesn't, you're refuted?

Very first one, no lore.

Second one, no lore.

Third... no lore. And so on.

If they have lore, then there should be some implementation of them. But I can't actually see one here that does save perhaps Project Undermine.

I was literally just about to correct myself on this.

That's pretty much besides the point though. The main point is that tactical alerts + events are essentially uniquely styled mission-types that seem to be wasted on their limited-time-only status. They're features of the game that could and in my opinion should come back because they'd be a nice, fresh alternative to the mission-types we play all the time, and of course as I said, we'd have a chance at getting the unique rewards we missed.

Also, I'm talking about events too. For some reason I thought events and tactical alerts were the same thing but now I realise they're not.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

I was literally just about to correct myself on this.

That's pretty much besides the point though. The main point is that tactical alerts + events are essentially uniquely styled mission-types that seem to be wasted on their limited-time-only status. They're features of the game that could and in my opinion should come back because they'd be a nice, fresh alternative to the mission-types we play all the time, and of course as I said, we'd have a chance at getting the unique rewards we missed.

Also, I'm talking about events too. For some reason I thought events and tactical alerts were the same thing but now I realise they're not.

There is certainly call for events to be made into Quests, that is something I would support entirely.

But not TA's, as I said earlier they should come around more frequently, even be repeated just for something to do, but to have them up constantly lowers their worth imo. They're no longer alerts, it would no longer feel like you're helping someone in trouble, or stealing critical time sensitive information.

That and it would lose one of it's intended purposes, player retention. If there was a TA up this weekend, I would log on and I'm sure others would log on as well. If it were up this weekend and every day after that, I wouldn't care in the slightest.

Jeez, just looked it up. Can you believe that we haven't had a proper Event in basically a year and a half?

Edited September 28, 2016 by DeMonkey

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

No, they should happen more frequently certainly, but as Jicematoro said they're no longer 'Alerts' if you can do them whenever you want.

+1

[Master-Nachash]

7 minutes ago, NearoC said:

Absolutely not. The main appeal of tactical alerts is that they are a limited time thing with a carrot on a stick, games having limited time things are cool. If they removed that I'd just want something else to replace it.

And at that point.. why would you not have just made some different permanent content in the first place?

My proposal changes nothing. The carrot on a stick thing would still apply because you wouldn't have to grind for the unique rewards, if you completed the tactical alert / event when it dropped, you'd get the item 100% guaranteed, whereas if you didn't, you'd have to grind for it, you'd have to run the alert repeatedly, because it'd have a system very similar to the sortie system where RNG dictates what reward you get after you complete the related missions. Obviously people would prefer to do the alert one time only when they have the chance. But for the people who can't, either because they're busy, or because they're new and didn't start the game in time. They still have a chance to do it, but they'd have to work harder.

[TheGrandWarrior]

Doesn't even have to be constantly re-playable or even freely available.

Would just be really nice, to have events like those appear more frequently. 

[BornWithTeeth]

Yeah, all joking aside, Tactical Alerts should not be endlessly replayable. They should have a feel of urgency.

 

More frequent Tactical Alerts would be very nice, though.

[Master-Nachash]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

There is certainly call for events to be made into Quests, that is something I would support entirely.

But not TA's, as I said earlier they should come around more frequently, even be repeated just for something to do, but to have them up constantly lowers their worth imo. They're no longer alerts, it would no longer feel like you're helping someone in trouble, or stealing critical time sensitive information.

That and it would lose one of it's intended purposes, player retention. If there was a TA up this weekend, I would log on and I'm sure others would log on as well. If it were up this weekend and every day after that, I wouldn't care in the slightest.

Jeez, just looked it up. Can you believe that we haven't had a proper Event in basically a year and a half?

You could say the exact same thing for every single mission-type in this game though.

That every single mission has low-worth because of it's repeatability. Especially boss fights. What's the point in killing a boss if he / she / it is just gonna respawn a few seconds after and make you need to run the mission again just so the solar system gets a few seconds of downtime from that bosses presence?

So I really don't see how that's an arguement. You're kinda contradicting yourself as well.

On the one hand you're saying replayable tactical alerts shouldn't be a thing because to make them so would lower their worth and you'd essentially lose your sense of immersion within their specific mission-types, but then on the other hand you're saying that replayable quests and events are fine by default, by saying you'd support events being made into quests, when DE have stated they plan on making quests replayable, which means that events would also be replayable.

I fail to see the logic here.

If events can be made replayable by being made into quests.

Why can't tactical alerts be made replayable?

 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

That's been their stated goal for some time now, so I don't see why you'd have to ask that. The problem for them is that they started out building the narrative of warframe with events and alerts, but at some point transitioned into quests. Now they have two separate and seemingly incompatible delivery vehicles for their story and have to figure out how to retcon any event and tactical alert inconsistencies with what they've established in the quests, while at the same time converting the gameplay and plot to fit the new system. That's quite complicated and can't really be monetized at all, which is why its taking so damn long for them to do. Working to put more plat buying incentives into the game > working for a more cohesive game experience.

Look how long they've taken to add a simple clan downsize option to the dojo, so people in dead clans weren't stuck with humongous research costs. I think it was about 2 years. Eventually, they'll make it so, I don't doubt that, but as with everything that isn't related to selling new and exciting content, it's automatically put on the backburner.

Edited September 28, 2016 by AuroraSonicBoom

[Master-Nachash]

1 minute ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

That's been their stated goal for some time now, so I don't see why you'd have to ask that. The problem for them is that they started out building the narrative of warframe with events and alerts, but at some point transitioned into quests. Now they have two separate and seemingly incompatible delivery vehicles for their story and have to figure out how to retcon any event and tactical alert inconsistencies with what they've established in the quests, while at the same time converting the gameplay and plot to fit the new system. That's quite complicated and can't really be monetized at all, which is why its taking so damn long for them to do. Working to put more plat buying incentives into the game > working for a more cohesive game experience.

Look how long they've taken to add a simple clan downsize option to the dojo, so people in dead clans weren't stuck with humongous research costs. I think it was about 2 years. Eventually, they'll make it so, I don't doubt that, but as with everything that isn't related to selling new and exciting content, it's automatically put on the backburner.

They've actually stated that they plan on making tactical alerts + events replayable in the future?

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Master-Nachash said:

You could say the exact same thing for every single mission-type in this game though.

That every single mission has low-worth because of it's repeatability. Especially boss fights. What's the point in killing a boss if he / she / it is just gonna respawn a few seconds after and make you need to run the mission again just so the solar system gets a few seconds of downtime from that bosses presence?

So I really don't see how that's an arguement. You're kinda contradicting yourself as well.

On the one hand you're saying replayable tactical alerts shouldn't be a thing because to make them so would lower their worth and you'd essentially lose your sense of immersion within their specific mission-types, but then on the other hand you're saying that replayable quests and events are fine by default, by saying you'd support events being made into quests, when DE have stated they plan on making quests replayable, which means that events would also be replayable.

I fail to see the logic here.

If events can be made replayable by being made into quests.

Why can't tactical alerts be made replayable?

 

1) No, I didn't contradict myself in the slightest.

Majority of the missions are low worth, why do you think Deception got removed? What possible reward could I get from yet another Mobile Defence that I haven't got a million times before?

On the other hand a Tactical Alert has better rewards, normally a Catalyst or a Sigil, has a time constraint and has certain conditions applied to the mission that make it more fun. 

How is that a contradiction?

2) Because a tactical alert is a minor ''Oh golly gosh, I appear to need some help'' followed by every Tenno in the system rushing to help them for 30 minutes, claiming their reward and then rushing off again.

An Event is a lot longer in both time and content, builds upon the lore and offers unique (at the time) rewards. Having some of them built into the quest system, mainly taking place towards the beginning of the game, would not only introduce mechanics to a new player but also add to character development and lore. 

 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Just now, Master-Nachash said:

They've actually stated that they plan on making tactical alerts + events replayable in the future?

Yeah, a couple of times. Depending on which questions are chosen for the streams, the devs clearly mentioned not only quests, but everything that has a story component to it. The last time we heard about replayable events as quests was a little bit back though, since people have shifted their focus on replaying quests after the SD came. I clearly remember them talking about trying to find a way to make events like Arid Fear(one of the earliest events) replayable, but that was a good while ago.

[TheScytale]

8 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

On the one hand you're saying replayable tactical alerts shouldn't be a thing because to make them so would lower their worth and you'd essentially lose your sense of immersion within their specific mission-types, but then on the other hand you're saying that replayable quests and events are fine by default, by saying you'd support events being made into quests, when DE have stated they plan on making quests replayable, which means that events would also be replayable.

Events have lore and valuable information to make the new players understand the universe they are in. Tactical Alerts have next to none.

Tactical alerts are mainly, like someone said, something like a beta testing with side rewards. They all introduce minor units and/or mechanics, and the only piece of storyline they have is the Lotus' inbox message informing us of the situation.

Also, I do agree that the rewards should stay exclusive to the events/alerts as well. If a player hasn't done those TA's and events already, they'll gladly do them once, even for free.

[Master-Nachash]

2 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Yeah, a couple of times. Depending on which questions are chosen for the streams, the devs clearly mentioned not only quests, but everything that has a story component to it. The last time we heard about replayable events as quests was a little bit back though, since people have shifted their focus on replaying quests after the SD came. I clearly remember them talking about trying to find a way to make events like Arid Fear(one of the earliest events) replayable, but that was a good while ago.

Oh sweet then it looks like I'm done with this thread, thanks man.

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

Oh sweet then it looks like I'm done with this thread, thanks man.

 

5 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

the devs clearly mentioned not only quests, but everything that has a story component to it. 

Most TA's don't have a story component anymore than a Defence mission does. I hope you don't leave this thread misunderstanding the comment. 

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

 

Most TA's don't have a story component anymore than a Defence mission does. I hope you don't leave this thread misunderstanding the comment. 

All of them have some sort of conflict, and to make them canon they'd have to fit into the main narrative of the quest. At tennocon DE even talked about the fact that they basically have two timelines right now, and that some events just seem out of place if one regards the quest progression as "main" canon timeline. But even without the story aspect, the devs have stated(more than a year or so back, though) that they want to make old events replayable, but *insert low muttering about event rewards and story progression problems here*.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, AuroraSonicBoom said:

All of them have some sort of conflict, and to make them canon they'd have to fit into the main narrative of the quest. At tennocon DE even talked about the fact that they basically have two timelines right now, and that some events just seem out of place if one regards the quest progression as "main" canon timeline. But even without the story aspect, the devs have stated(more than a year or so back, though) that they want to make old events replayable, but *insert low muttering about event rewards and story progression problems here*.

Events yes, but there seems to be a lot of confusion between Events and TA's. 

[Doom_Bunny]

Not all the time but they should definitely keep a stockpile of events/tactical-alerts. Just to throw at the players during times like this.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

14 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Events yes, but there seems to be a lot of confusion between Events and TA's. 

Every TA has some sort of narrative to it that, while probably not super relevant to the overall story, fleshes factions a little more and adds to the immersion, so I don't think there's any need to separate TAs from events when talking about replayablility. IMO, anyway.

Edited September 28, 2016 by AuroraSonicBoom

[DeMonkey]

Just now, AuroraSonicBoom said:

Every TA has some sort of narrative to it that, while probably not super relevant to the overall story, fleshes factions a little more and adds to the immersion, so I don't think there's any need to separate TAs from events when talking about replayablility.

Hardly, the most notable one that has is Project Undermine which introduced the ''Nightwatch'' Grineer.

Majority of the others have absolutely 0 story. Fleet Footed just made Grineer run faster. Den of Kubrows was a melee only Kubrow genocide. Absolutely 0 story.

If DE are intending for, as you said, everything that has a story component to become replayable, then the majority of TA's do not fit this criteria.

[BornWithTeeth]

Oh, frigging sweet. Mention a Tactical Alert, and one arrives!

[Jicematoro]

3 hours ago, Master-Nachash said:

That's not really an arguement against my proposal.

I mean, you could use the same logic to say that quests should never be replayable but as we should all know by now, they are at some point, going to be replayable.

Considering I deliberately avoided giving an argument/opinion, and went right for the gold, that's to be expected.

Thing being, if we were to go with your idea, the whole point of the tactical alerts is lost. These are events happening in real time that require the good-old Tenno treatment, they're meant to spike the activity of the game and have us all fight together for a cause (Mostly for loot, really), and the Timer is there to generate a sense of urgency. Not a fan of losing that experience, or undermining it in any way.

We're all sent E-mails when a Tactical Alert happens, and if you follow enough Warframe People, let's be honest here, it's pretty hard to miss them.

Your idea of a Sortie-Like system for them is interesting, but Sorties and Raids, even tho they're there, they're available, and you'll get rewarded for participating, not everyone plays them daily.

Like, are we supposed to get the same rewards that were available when the TAlert was up? If Yes, what's the point of replaying them? Another layer of missions that people will not want to play? Veterans keep complaining about Sorties and Raids not giving them anything new, and making new stuff is easier said than done.

If no, What's in it for people who missed the original? Inbox Messages that you can easily read on the Wiki? A sense of challenge that'll last like, what? One Week? A scan of an enemy that can easily be placed somewhere else in-game?

To the Idea of having them more often, I can agree, as long as they're not TOO often.

Also, I'm not taking the replayable quests as fact, or proof until they happen, we've been at it for a while.

TL;DR: Tac Alerts are great because they're Alerts, We already have alternatives that most ignore, and I can agree they should happen most often, but not TOO often.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Jicematoro

[Arniox]

3 hours ago, Mcl_BlueMadness said:

If they have lore, I believe they should be reworked into quests. Otherwise, no, not really.

this