Valkyr mana consumption

[Exateck]

Hi... so i havn't played for almost a year.... and when i played last, valkyr was by far my most favourite warframe to play...

 

i modded her so that her r hysteria has 0.63 mana consumption per second,

and it still displays it like that (even after i removed and reinserted the mods)

 

yet it almost consumes about 3 mana per sec and theres just no point in playing her like that...

 

 

any ideas why thats the case are appreciated

[Naftal]

It's because toggle abilities use both efficiency and duration to determine their energy cost.

You can get minimum cost by using maxed fleeting expertise and streamline, if you use transient fortitude, you have to use any duration mod to counter the negative duration to stay at minimum cost.

If you have exactly 175% efficiency, you're going to need 100% or more duration to have minimum cost. 40% duration is enough with 190% efficiency.

[PoisonHD]

Well, that's probably because of her... "rage"? meter. It increases the longer you are in Hysteria, also increasing energy consumption.

[NinjaKitsune56]

13 minutes ago, Exateck said:

Hi... so i havn't played for almost a year.... and when i played last, valkyr was by far my most favourite warframe to play...

 

i modded her so that her r hysteria has 0.63 mana consumption per second,

and it still displays it like that (even after i removed and reinserted the mods)

 

yet it almost consumes about 3 mana per sec and theres just no point in playing her like that...

any ideas why thats the case are appreciated

They did a Hysteria rework a few versions back... while you'll get the minimal energy cost initially, over time Valkyr's Hysteria energy drain'll go up, to a determined max dependent on efficiency and duration. Mine tops at about 3 per second. With a Carrier or Chesa snagging energy balls for me, I can keep it up almost indefinitely... and with the Chesa, I can keep her alive simply by killing enemies, thanks to the Life-Steal Link.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

16 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Well, that's probably because of her... "rage"? meter. It increases the longer you are in Hysteria, also increasing energy consumption.

The more enemies you kill the lower the rage meter.

[PoisonHD]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)joshw1400 said:

The more enemies you kill the lower the rage meter.

No, the more enemies you kill the smaller the "circle" around you is. (Where it damages you on deactivation if there are enemies within it) It doesn't change the energy consumption added by the "rage" timer/meter/idk.

Edited September 30, 2016 by PoisonHD

[Xzorn]

I believe her energy drain at best is reduced to 3.75 which makes it impossible to keep Hysteria up 100% anymore. She also takes energy drain from Disruptors, Eximus, ect and she can be locked out of Hysteria by Scrambus.

The idea she drops out of Hysteria is fine but they really didn't give her much to compensate for it.

As a result she's weaker in defense than any number of frames with flat mitigation abilities and she does less damage than a few others, even in Hysteria

The nerf is esp silly since Naramon - Shadow Step is a thing. 

[bluepheonix13]

7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

The idea she drops out of Hysteria is fine but they really didn't give her much to compensate for it.

I feel like she was too strong before and that her ult was always intended to give a quick breather instead of being perma-invincible (because that is just too OP). So I see it as a fix to bring her ult down to its intended use and therefore it doesn't need compensation IMO.

 

7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

As a result she's weaker in defense than any number of frames with flat mitigation abilities and she does less damage than a few others, even in Hysteria

You know that Valkyr's base armor already gives her a damage mitigation of about 65%? And with Steel Fiber that becomes 80%. And don't forget the armor buff from Warcry. And the innate Life Steal on her ult, which can still give you some time of invincibility. 

 

7 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

The nerf is esp silly since Naramon - Shadow Step is a thing. 

I have to agree with you on that, leaving Shadow Step and Energy Overflow as is but nerfing Valkyr is kinda silly. But it's at least something.

[(PSN)joshw1400]

37 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

No, the more enemies you kill the smaller the "circle" around you is. (Where it damages you on deactivation if there are enemies within it) It doesn't change the energy consumption added by the "rage" timer/meter/idk.

Oh I though the rage meter was the circle 

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

As a result she's weaker in defense than any number of frames with flat mitigation abilities

yno, aside from that Warcry is a flat mitigation Ability.
which with the same Power Strength, Chroma gets 36% more Armor from Vex Armor than Valkyr does from Warcry - which while that's certainly a notable difference, means that Valkyr still gets quite the benefit. (no need to mention Ice Ward, one Ability for one Ability)

[Xzorn]

31 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

I feel like she was too strong before and that her ult was always intended to give a quick breather instead of being perma-invincible (because that is just too OP). So I see it as a fix to bring her ult down to its intended use and therefore it doesn't need compensation IMO.

I know that's how it's intended to work which is why I agree with the change however Valkyr without perma Hysteria is kinda 2nd rate. I don't think Perma Hysteria was ever OP, it was just easy so people with no knowledge of the game were getting more than they should out of her. I've taken Valkyr to 350, Saryn to 340, Chroma to 300, Mesa to 300, Banshee to 350 and Excal (Pre-nerf) to 320. She really didn't accomplish any more than other frames which get 0 attention.

Her Armor buff should be multiplicative with her modded armor value like Chroma. In many ways Chroma is what Valkyr should have been with the whole "HIT ME!" aspect.

 

35 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

You know that Valkyr's base armor already gives her a damage mitigation of about 65%? And with Steel Fiber that becomes 80%. And don't forget the armor buff from Warcry. And the innate Life Steal on her ult, which can still give you some time of invincibility.

Valkyr with Steel Fiber and 185% Power Strength Warcry has 85.8% mitigation. She takes 42% more damage than a 90% mitigation buff like Nekros, 68% more damage than Mesa and almost 90% (Double) the damage of Chroma, Meanwhile she's restricted to melee range abilities and her atk speed buff is partially wasted either by flailing at the air or by reducing her atk speed via Spoiled Strike and not gaining as much Damage potential as you could with a flat damage buff.

She's not bad by any means.  I used to play her all the time when she first came out but since other frames have come out which are simply better I've found little reason to play her.

 

45 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

I have to agree with you on that, leaving Shadow Step and Energy Overflow as is but nerfing Valkyr is kinda silly. But it's at least something.

Yea I just run Shadow Step Saryn, Rhino, Banshee or any frame with a damage multiplier. 

I agree with the change but the timing was dumb. It's esp annoying they STILL didn't fix her Hyseria Combos while they were working on it. I just hope they take another look at her when it's time for her Prime.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

yno, aside from that Warcry is a flat mitigation Ability.
which with the same Power Strength, Chroma gets 36% more Armor from Vex Armor than Valkyr does from Warcry - which while that's certainly a notable difference, means that Valkyr still gets quite the benefit. (no need to mention Ice Ward, one Ability for one Ability)

 

I got 62% more armor and 58% more damage taken.  Just using Vex, Steel Fiber and Warcry.at 185% Power Strength

Spoiler

Valkyr Base Armor 600, Steel Fiber 1260, Warcry +92.5% = 1,815
Chroma Base Armor 350, Steel Fiber 735, Vex +647.5% = 4,759.125

Warcry = 600 * (1 +1.1 + 0.925) = 1,815
Vex = 350 * (1 + 1.1) * 3.5 * 1.85 = 4,759.125

Difference: (4759.125 - 1815 ) / 4759.125 = .61863 = 62%

Vex Reduction 4759.125 / 5059.125 = .9407 = 94.07%
Warcry Reduction 1815 / 2115 = .8582 = 86%

100 Incoming Damage .9407 =  5.93
100 Incoming Damage .8582 = 14.18
14.18 - 5.93 / 14.18 = .5818 = 58% more damage

Warcry should be multiplicative to her modded total value.

But even if they stick with the berserk theme she's a melee frame that takes more damage than some ranged frames and doesn't really deal any extra damage as a result. Lower in fact to some other melee frames.

Some of this is the fault of Naramon but that's why you don't implement half finished core mechanics, leave them for a year and nerf a frame that was never very strong to begin with. Hell Hysteria was only really good for 1 mission type, Survival.

 

[taiiat]

15 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

-snip-

oh how silly of me to make the mistake of thinking Warframe would be consistent. i know better than that already! totally my fault for thinking Warframe would do things in a way that makes sense. why would i ever think that? should always assume everything will be the way that makes least sense.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

so then the problem with it, is that it isn't consistent - and that means the coinflip way everything calculates (because it is basically just random as to which way they choose for each Mod/Ability) is what the problem is here.

[-skimmer-]

You guys that say she doesnt do more damage than other frames never checked how her ground finisher works, did you?

[Xzorn]

59 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

You guys that say she doesnt do more damage than other frames never checked how her ground finisher works, did you?

 

Her Paralysis Finishers are better after a certain point and nearly required to get to to lvl 300 even with Naramon perma Hysteria.

Meanwhile I was able to do 340 on Saryn without finishers keeping a much higher kill rate because of her Self Buff and Viral procs which provided higher effective damage than Valkyr's, Excalibur in the same way can force Finishers with a much better AoE, Banshee of course just trumps them all.

Your Damage output is generally Damage X Targets Hit. Dealing a lot of damage to one target in a horde shooter is not really better. That's why I never considered Hysteria that great to begin with because your kill rate doesn't match up with killing 1-2 targets at a time until much higher in level when you would actually need to be immortal / invisible as melee to survive.

Not to mention you can bypass the need for finishers all together by using a physical bleed weapon like Atterax or Prisma Cleavers.