Make switching weapons more often attractive

[Ryouhi]

I've been playing a lot of Evolve again lately and instead of having to reload every weapon manually, you can just let them reload themselve by just switching to another weapon.

 

We are space ninjas and this is the future, there's no need for us to reload weapons manually now is there? :D

[Gelkor]

Not likely to happen, because there are mods for that.

[Ryouhi]

5 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Not likely to happen, because there are mods for that.

Oh i didn't know about those. 

This would certainly be interesting for those weapons with extreme reload times like the Supra i guess, though you still have to give up a mod slot for it.

[Gelkor]

3 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

Oh i didn't know about those. 

This would certainly be interesting for those weapons with extreme reload times like the Supra i guess, though you still have to give up a mod slot for it.

Unfortunately, yes. It's a much more applicable and viable mod choice in, say, conclave, where there are also weapon based mods to increase swap speed. Sadly, I wish both (faster swap speed and passive reloading) were baseline, but alas. That said, DE has been hinting for some time that they want to reevaluate damage and mandatory damage mods, so perhaps one day these kind of mods could be considered a valid option. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Gelkor

[Ryouhi]

Just now, Gelkor said:

Unfortunately, yes. It's a much more applicable and viable mod choice in, say, conclave, where there are also weapon based mods to increase swap speed. Sadly, I wish both (faster swap speed and passive reloading) were baseline, but alas. That said, DE has been hinting for some time that they want to reevaluate damage and mandatory damage mods, so perhaps one day these kind of mods could be considered a valid option. 

True, if they cleared up some mod space we may be able to integrate some more utility in our builds then :)

[AdunSaveMe]

I'd rather we have fast weapon swapping. We don't need auto reload.

[Ryouhi]

5 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'd rather we have fast weapon swapping. We don't need auto reload.

That would be great as well

[EgAlia]

19 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

I'd rather we have fast weapon swapping. We don't need auto reload.

I'm with this tenno, I like to reload, but wouldn't mind fast weapon swapping.

[----Dante----]

51 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

Oh i didn't know about those. 

This would certainly be interesting for those weapons with extreme reload times like the Supra i guess, though you still have to give up a mod slot for it.

thats why weapons need utility slot something like exilus on frames

[Jangkrik]

Or you know... Just make our reload progressive?

If you've taken 2 seconds to reload a weapon that needs 4 seconds to reload and you switch your weapon, you don't have to replay that 4 seconds reload. Instead, you only need another 2 seconds to reload it.

[[DE]Momaw]

1 hour ago, Gelkor said:

. It's a much more applicable and viable mod choice in, say, conclave, where there are also weapon based mods to increase swap speed.

More specifically it's a viable choice in conclave because in conclave you don't have damage mods.  In PVE,  every mod you use for convenience is a mod that's NOT doing damage. The only weapons that you can justify using such a thing on are weapons that are insanely OP damage-wise.  And how many weapons do insanely OP damage but also have pathetic reload speed where it would make sense to switch weapons instead of just pressing reload?

[shut]

9 hours ago, Gelkor said:

Not likely to happen, because there are mods for that.

Wait, you can use those outside PVP? I thought that all those Conclave mods were Conclave only?

[Gelkor]

8 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Wait, you can use those outside PVP? I thought that all those Conclave mods were Conclave only?

Some are conclave only, some can be used in both. I've toyed around with using the passive reload speed on my secondary, as well as the rapid weapon switch mods on both for things like sentients, it's alright but in the end breaking contact long enough to switch weapons or reload is ulimately better + damage mods

 

[shut]

56 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Some are conclave only, some can be used in both. I've toyed around with using the passive reload speed on my secondary, as well as the rapid weapon switch mods on both for things like sentients, it's alright but in the end breaking contact long enough to switch weapons or reload is ulimately better + damage mods

 

A bit off topic for this thread, but out of curiosity-- for the holster speed mods, do they affect the entire switching animation? Like, say you have the +200% switch speed on your Secondary-- would this speed up the whole animation when switching from your shotgun to your pistol or something, or does it only affect the part of the animation where you pull your pistol out?

[Epsik-kun]

You know what could make switching weapons attractive? Instant holster speed - like in every game that tries to promote weapon switching.

We, on the other hand have a huge penalty by the game design for relying on more than one weapon 

[SenorClipClop]

9 hours ago, Jangkrik said:

Or you know... Just make our reload progressive?

If you've taken 2 seconds to reload a weapon that needs 4 seconds to reload and you switch your weapon, you don't have to replay that 4 seconds reload. Instead, you only need another 2 seconds to reload it.

That's not how guns work.

[Fansay]

You guys do know there is an aura for swap speed? It's called speed holster, and it grants 80% swap speed (or not, seeing as the maths does different things).
Can I post wiki links? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Speed_Holster

[Ryouhi]

36 minutes ago, Fansay said:

You guys do know there is an aura for swap speed? It's called speed holster, and it grants 80% swap speed (or not, seeing as the maths does different things).
Can I post wiki links? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Speed_Holster

The problem with making these things mod-dependent is that you give up much more important stats.
So unless they want to rework the whole "mandatory (damage) mods"-snafu, just making these stats innate would be much easier.

Furthermore these are things that should just be the standard, considering this is a game about space ninjas that use space magic and shoot badies while twirling through the air in slow motion. And yet it takes me eons to switch to another weapon.

Especially now that we have an entire faction that requires the player to use multiple weapons with different elements on them.

 

Having faster switch speed and having your weapons reload when holstered would also make switching weapons in the first place more attractive.
Oftentimes i only switch weapons when my primary is either empty or i picked up something that only lets me use my sidearm.

 

Also Speed Holster only gives 5 Capacity points, further making other choices much more attractive because it would require to forma your warframe of choice more.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Ryouhi

[Fansay]

I hear rumours that Damage 3.0 will remove the compulsory damage mods, which would be great.

TBH though, I don't feel like this game could never really encourage weapon swaps unless it was faster to swap than to reload. I find almost no reason to ever want to switch weapons. As far as I'm concerned, primaries and secondaries are just about equivalent. My twin grakatas out DPS any other weapon in my arsenal, but my Lanka is probably one of the more fun weapons to use. Granted I have not forma'd soma prime or boltor prime. But I hope you understand what I'm saying.

It also all comes down to preference. But in general secondaries and primaries seem to perform equivalently.

 

1 hour ago, Ryouhi said:

Having faster switch speed and having your weapons reload when holstered would also make switching weapons in the first place more attractive.

Oftentimes i only switch weapons when my primary is either empty or i picked up something that only lets me use my sidearm.

I agree with what you're saying. I am in the same situation. But I don't think swap speed increase will actually change it. There is actually 0 incentive to use your sidearm over your primary unless it is stronger, or your leveling a primary and stalker just showed up.

 

1 hour ago, Ryouhi said:

Also Speed Holster only gives 5 Capacity points, further making other choices much more attractive because it would require to forma your warframe of choice more.

A valid reason, but I would like to now take this moment to talk about our lord and saviour Forma.
In seriousness, forma needs to stack polarities on a slot rather then replace them. It currently locks frames into builds that are optimal, where we would also love to make another fun build.
I think I make this rant everytime someone mentions the word "forma". :/

[Ryouhi]

5 minutes ago, Fansay said:

I hear rumours that Damage 3.0 will remove the compulsory damage mods, which would be great.

But who knowes how long it will take until they finish that. xD

6 minutes ago, Fansay said:

TBH though, I don't feel like this game could never really encourage weapon swaps unless it was faster to swap than to reload

Well the Sentients surely encourage it, as you need to use multiple weapons to kill them.
They could also make certain weapon types useful for certain situations. Many people are asking for snipers to be able to penetrate Nullifier Bubbles for example, for that reason you could then quickly switch to your sniper to take them out and then switch back to something more suited for hordes.

In general, this may give me a more of a reason to have one weapon with high single target damage and one with high AoE damage. Usually when i see an enemy that would warrant switching to my Marelok from my Ignis for example i simply don't bother, because by the time i have actually switched weapons, i could have killed the enemy even with the ignis.

And also that's why i would combine the switch speed with the auto-reload when holstered, so if you use something with a longer reload you can still do something while it's reloading.

Maybe i'm just to spoiled in this regard coming back from playing a lot of evolve recently :p

13 minutes ago, Fansay said:

I agree with what you're saying. I am in the same situation. But I don't think swap speed increase will actually change it. There is actually 0 incentive to use your sidearm over your primary unless it is stronger, or your leveling a primary and stalker just showed up.

BUt at the same time i see really no reason for it to be this slow in the first place. I've seen people ask for faster switch speed a lot over the years and i don't really see why they don't just increase it. Again, this is a really fast paced game about Space Ninjas. What's the point of having 3 weapons when switching to them takes longer than just killing everything with the weapon you already have equipped.

 

16 minutes ago, Fansay said:

A valid reason, but I would like to now take this moment to talk about our lord and saviour Forma.
In seriousness, forma needs to stack polarities on a slot rather then replace them. It currently locks frames into builds that are optimal, where we would also love to make another fun build.
I think I make this rant everytime someone mentions the word "forma". :/

I don't even know why Auras have different Capacity points in the first place .-.
why doesn't everything just have the same capacity, instead of further penalizing non-meta Auras. 
Really doens't make any sense, now does it?

 

Sorry if this reply is kinda all over the place, i'm writing this between missions xD

[Jangkrik]

15 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

That's not how guns work.

Either does reloading while they're holstered (Eject Magazine). Are you trying to bring up the logic vs space magic debate again?

[Fansay]

11 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

Well the Sentients surely encourage it, as you need to use multiple weapons to kill them.
They could also make certain weapon types useful for certain situations. Many people are asking for snipers to be able to penetrate Nullifier Bubbles for example, for that reason you could then quickly switch to your sniper to take them out and then switch back to something more suited for hordes.

I will agree on the sentients...even though my 6 forma weapons have little trouble dealing with them without switching. Granted I Trinity so they mostly kill themselves. :P

That second point there. Deffinitely! But that would be one situation for making snipers equally preferable. I love snipers and bows, even in this game. The issue is it is a fast paced, jump, fly, run, shoot-em-up game that doesn't do anything to support sniper playstyle. Granted they have tonnes of single target damage but its not very helpful when 10 butchers are carving your face up.
Maybe too OP, but I would love for one of these ideas to be implemented:

1. headshots while airborn (obvs aimgliding) with bows or snipers are instantkill, no matter the level. Now you gotta be a BA with mad skilz. :D Also encourages quality of life mods if you are good enough.
2. a mod sniper/bow exclusive that headshot kills cause enemy to explode for 100% of its health as finisher (or another) damage in a 5m radius. Like the sobek augment, but more OP. And now snipers/bows can fit into mob killing too, maybe too well... Maybe just a short range blast proc for CC.

But now I've deviated from the main topic, and 2nd suggestion throws switching in the trash again. I'm terrible at this.

 

21 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

BUt at the same time i see really no reason for it to be this slow in the first place. I've seen people ask for faster switch speed a lot over the years and i don't really see why they don't just increase it. Again, this is a really fast paced game about Space Ninjas. What's the point of having 3 weapons when switching to them takes longer than just killing everything with the weapon you already have equipped.

^This is the problem that even with faster switching will probably still persist. Everyone builds optimal. Optimal = damage (most of the time). But its a step in the right direction I think. Actually, first step would be fixing the 5s switch between anything to melee if you were just quick-meleeing. E.g. do quick-melee, now I switch to melee the frame must put melee away, pull out [other weapon] and then switch back. This is truly awful.

 

26 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

And also that's why i would combine the switch speed with the auto-reload when holstered, so if you use something with a longer reload you can still do something while it's reloading.

That would be the way to do it. But I don't know if its a good idea to make a game's mechanics similar to another, perhaps losing identity? Either way, something should be done to encourage us of all your weapons other than "I'm down" or "I'm holding the datamass" or "I'm out of ammo".

 

26 minutes ago, Ryouhi said:

I don't even know why Auras have different Capacity points in the first place .-.why doesn't everything just have the same capacity, instead of further penalizing non-meta Auras. 

Really doens't make any sense, now does it?

I think you're right, standardise all aura capacities. They get maxed regardless, so it doesn't matter how they redistribute the stats. But at the same time I think they would need to allow polarity stacking. You'll notice most meta auras are -.

[GeoffFromAccounting]

16 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

That's not how guns work.

So if I were to take a magazine out of a gun, then get interrupted while reloading, the magazine would magically reappear in the gun and I have to take it out again? That makes no sense to me

Edited October 3, 2016 by Ninjaboy00
English is many hards

[IX-44]

I'd propose that ammo wouldn't drop for the weapon you have equipped, meaning swapping between your primary and your secondary more often is almost needed, but then I realized that this really just limits weapons with poor ammo economy more than it encourages weapon swapping for the sake of weapon swapping.