Get rid of sorties; add a casual-friendly way to get sortie rewards

[DivisionByZero]

Before you all flame or troll this thread into the garbage can:

Scaling and poor game balance has been a commonly mentioned topic on these forums over the last 2 months, and Sorties are the prime exhibit of bad scaling and bad balancing. Level 50+ enemies have to go, or at least the scaling has to be flattened.

The focus system has largely been left to be covered in cobwebs ever since being released. I haven't seen any significant changes to the focus trees ever since they were introduced. Sorties remain the only way to get focus lenses, and even those have an unreasonable amount of RNG linked to them.

No reward (except cosmetics) should be exclusive to any game mode. Sorties only promote the continuation of bad balancing and bad game design.

[RagingGrizzly]

If you can't handle level 50+ enemies in a game that's full of cheese, then I don't know what to tell you.

Edited October 3, 2016 by PUR3K1LL3R

[artemisfortune]

56 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

If you can't handle level 50+ enemies in a game that's full of cheese, then I don't know what to tell you.

As much as I hate to admit it, this.

Sorties can be completed with little effort without cheese as well.

[Rekkou]

If you're casual then you won't need anything from the sortie, if you want it then you're no longer casual.

[X3Evanescence]

While I agree that there should be more ways to obtain focus lenses (1 of each lens per season is... inadequate.), I don't think sorties should be removed entirely from the game. With the removal of incentives to farm endless void due to the relic system in place, many veteran players are left with: Sorties, Raids and the occasional 2 hours long endless run in order to be remotely challenged by anything. In fact, even those are trivialized by cheese. 

Sortie rewards should still retain a certain incentive to playing them, if not it will become irrelevant and underplayed, just like Lunaro. Some Sortie-exclusive rewards can be made available in other game modes, especially Focus lenses, but definitely not ALL of them.

[Loswaith]

8 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

If you can't handle level 50+ enemies in a game that's full of cheese, then I don't know what to tell you.

Because using player cheese to trivialise enemy cheese (defeating the purpose of high level enemies) makes for a fun and healthy game?

Edited October 3, 2016 by Loswaith

[RagingGrizzly]

1 minute ago, Loswaith said:

Because using player cheese to trivialise enemy cheese makes for a fun and healthy game?

Level 50+ enemies can be trivialized by everything, abilities, guns, anything you can think of. Without it, we probably wouldn't be able to complete most of them anyways. You seen Kela sortie assassinations?

But, that's not the point of this thread is it?

[letir]

Sorties is current end-game, one of a few reasons to crack knuckles and go all out. This is the first and main reson to keep them up.

Bad scaling and bad balance is prime part of the Waframe, and there isn't any alternative in DE book. So I going to take this sort of challenge, rather than have none.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

No. I love Sorties. Dont know about everyone else but im kinda tired of playing against easy levels. Sorties are my "challenge of the day". I love having to strategize my loadout before heading into a sortie. Sorties is half the reason I play Warframe

[DivisionByZero]

There is no excuse to have broken game mechanics sitting around for years, particularly in a game with so many broken mechanics and painfully obvious fixes.

Fix and balance broken mechanics instead of adding overpowered/broken enemies to counter them. Broken + broken != fixed.

[RagingGrizzly]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

No. I love Sorties. Dont know about everyone else but im kinda tired of playing against easy levels. Sorties are my "challenge of the day". I love having to strategize my loadout before heading into a sortie. Sorties is half the reason I play Warframe

Unless you're like me who uses Rhino for all sorties... <_<

 

[letir]

Just now, DivisionByZero said:

There is no excuse to have broken game mechanics sitting around for years, particularly in a game with so many broken mechanics and painfully obvious fixes.

Fix and balance broken mechanics instead of adding overpowered/broken enemies to counter them. Broken + broken != fixed.

Glad what we have a common ground.

Now we should just wait when DE will fix everything in Warframe and create "good balance" and "fair challenge".

Until when Sorties should stay.

[RagingGrizzly]

6 minutes ago, DivisionByZero said:

There is no excuse to have broken game mechanics sitting around for years, particularly in a game with so many broken mechanics and painfully obvious fixes.

Fix and balance broken mechanics instead of adding overpowered/broken enemies to counter them. Broken + broken != fixed.

But... since when are sortie level enemies overpowered?

[DivisionByZero]

"But... since when are sortie level enemies overpowered? "

They aren't "overpowered" as much as binary and broken. If you have a frame with broken abilities that nullify them, you win. Otherwise, you take 300 damage per hit and evaporate on moving out of cover. This means that some people will find Sorties ridiculously easy and others will find them ridiculously difficult - with almost no correlation with player skill. It's just un-fun broken rock-paper-scissors that somehow gets held up as the gold standard of "challenge".

#warframeforumlogic

[Banansa47]

36 minutes ago, DivisionByZero said:

Before you all flame or troll this thread into the garbage can:

Scaling and poor game balance has been a commonly mentioned topic on these forums over the last 2 months, and Sorties are the prime exhibit of bad scaling and bad balancing. Level 50+ enemies have to go, or at least the scaling has to be flattened.

The focus system has largely been left to be covered in cobwebs ever since being released. I haven't seen any significant changes to the focus trees ever since they were introduced. Sorties remain the only way to get focus lenses, and even those have an unreasonable amount of RNG linked to them.

No reward (except cosmetics) should be exclusive to any game mode. Sorties only promote the continuation of bad balancing and bad game design.

i agree ^

[RagingGrizzly]

12 minutes ago, DivisionByZero said:

"But... since when are sortie level enemies overpowered? "

They aren't "overpowered" as much as binary and broken. If you have a frame with broken abilities that nullify them, you win. Otherwise, you take 300 damage per hit and evaporate on moving out of cover. This means that some people will find Sorties ridiculously easy and others will find them ridiculously difficult - with almost no correlation with player skill. It's just un-fun broken rock-paper-scissors that somehow gets held up as the gold standard of "challenge".

#warframeforumlogic

What you're talking about is a full system overall, basically, and that's not going to happen anytime soon. And what if scaling was fixed, there's still going to be a finish line to player usefulness, and people are going to complain about it again once they hit it. (And since when was there skill in this game when it comes to PVE?)

This whole thing is a topic for another thread, but asking for a more casual way to get sortie rewards (Lenses could be moved though) is just a little weird. Just as Rekkou said, if you're casual, you don't need the rewards.

Why don't you go make a enemy scaling thread? Oh wait, there's already hundreds of them.

Edited October 3, 2016 by PUR3K1LL3R

[shut]

45 minutes ago, DivisionByZero said:

Scaling and poor game balance has been a commonly mentioned topic on these forums over the last 2 months, and Sorties are the prime exhibit of bad scaling and bad balancing. Level 50+ enemies have to go, or at least the scaling has to be flattened.

You may want to edit your title. This is exactly the opposite of what I was expecting to see upon entering your thread.

Your thread says "scaling has to be flattened", but your title says "make endgame rewards obtainable by newbies". One is slightly less reasonable than the other, see.

[(XBOX)BURRITO DEVIL]

Just now, Loswaith said:

Because using player cheese to trivialise enemy cheese (defeating the purpose of high level enemies) makes for a fun and healthy game?

You dont even need cheese to handle 50+,the hell are you talking about  

[motorfirebox]

Seems like putting the cart before the horse. The problem isn't sorties, the problem is scaling that encourages cheese, combined with a wealth of cheesy powers to choose from. Getting rid of sorties won't do anything at all to address the actual issues the game has.

[.Fire_Fly.]

i like the sorties there the funnest part of warframe now for me anything else is snoozville

[Defendor]

Sorties requiring cheese is a misconception that many seem to have for some reason. They don't. The enemy levels aren't high enough for that. They do require good gear and some thoughtfulness when preparing for them. If you see a Corpus sortie, don't use CP, a Corrosive weapon and a lvl 23 Limbo and expect to win. However, you can use a non-meta frame and some good weapons and do just fine. For a long time, my go-to frame for defensive sorties was Nyx, and she's considered subpar by many.

[Autongnosis]

9 minutes ago, Defendor said:

Sorties requiring cheese is a misconception that many seem to have for some reason. They don't. The enemy levels aren't high enough for that. They do require good gear and some thoughtfulness when preparing for them. If you see a Corpus sortie, don't use CP, a Corrosive weapon and a lvl 23 Limbo and expect to win. However, you can use a non-meta frame and some good weapons and do just fine. For a long time, my go-to frame for defensive sorties was Nyx, and she's considered subpar by many.

^ This.

Basically level 100 is not nearly high enough to require cheese. You only need to prepare yourself.

Cheese is not mandatory until you hit about level 150-200 (depending on your definition of what's cheese and what's not) or around that area. Before, you can just play. The problem is that at Sortie levels not using cheese requires you to put in some effort in choosing your loadout and in how you handle the whole thing, and most people just play for efficiency - thus going for the path of least resistance and spamming cheese like there was no tomorrow.

[(PSN)T0katax]

u know whats funny? Hikou P with concealed explosives and lots of multishot, a saryn, and a defence sortie.

1) Give the defence target your Hikou P. He is immune to self damage.

2) Cast one spore

3) Lean back while the defence target kills everyone and leaves you with 80% of the damage dealt once the mission is over ;)

Cheese? Never heard of :o

[Shockwave-]

On 10/2/2016 at 11:18 PM, DivisionByZero said:

Before you all flame or troll this thread into the garbage can:

Scaling and poor game balance has been a commonly mentioned topic on these forums over the last 2 months, and Sorties are the prime exhibit of bad scaling and bad balancing. Level 50+ enemies have to go, or at least the scaling has to be flattened.

The focus system has largely been left to be covered in cobwebs ever since being released. I haven't seen any significant changes to the focus trees ever since they were introduced. Sorties remain the only way to get focus lenses, and even those have an unreasonable amount of RNG linked to them.

No reward (except cosmetics) should be exclusive to any game mode. Sorties only promote the continuation of bad balancing and bad game design.

50+ enemies are you kidding? Void survival starts are lvl 40 enemies and goes up from there. 50 is not super high level. Sorties can be done by any causal group. In addition what in WF is NOT casual? Everything can be casual -accessible otherwise it's all too easy. To do a Sortie you need 1 potatoed lvl 30 frame and 1 patatoed decent weapon. Thtas't not out of reach for even the most causal player.

[Insizer]

Sorties are actually good design-wise. The problems are that the rewards (lenses) are too important, so casuals have to play them to take part in the focus system; and that you can only do 1 sortie/day. Fix that and they make for a decent end-game at least design-wise.