The Vacuum Within: Hotfix 1

[-FaberXzio-]

18 hours ago, ludo3009 said:

Reason for vacuum nerf ?

thig guy, let him have all the hearts

[Sci_Ant]

20 minutes ago, SchwarzeRitter said:

Evidently it'll soon be only those "who continue to enjoy this game" considering the 35% drop in player numbers over the last six months. Hope those who stick around are willing to spend more to make up for the player shortfall.

Not to sound arrogant but if these changes weed out the unwanted players like those who couldn't be bothered to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played, then the rest of the community is all the better off for it. The player base won't die, this is a multi platform, multi million player base game that is one of the top F2P games on all platforms right now. I've been in this game for exactly 2 years now and I've managed to adapt to every change and learn how to play with every addition to the game, for better or worse, mostly for the better. New players will keep coming in and this game and it's player base aren't going anywhere, except for up.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Sci_Ant

[-FaberXzio-]

18 hours ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

I'm actually fine with the range. I always used Carrier before just for convenience, but I really don't see the problem with walking around just a bit.

well its not like we are robot ninjas from the future who's only objective is to save our galaxie and probably many more in the future, now we also have to worry about walking around grabbing stuff when there alredy was enough technology to do that for us. For the logic it isnt quite comprehensive the fact of us moving a bit around when we are fighting against a full army of corpus/grineer/infested, following the same logic of us being galaxie defenders as before mentioned they just made ur life harder in that sense. but hang on a minute i can understand that alll the sentinels have this feature, i might not even be against it but why the distance nerf on all of them, why not giving the carrier at least his previous power in the form of a mod, it's a CARRIER its supposed to carry stuff for you (or at least take it for you) now the name isnt even suitable. 

 

to wrap up, i accept the vacuum passive for all sentinels, i dont like the range, i wish there was a way to add range(in a form of mod or quest or unlockable, w/e)

[Mu_Gera]

Honestly, the new range is gonna make it harder to balance with looting and keeping up with gameplay, mostly when it gets heated.

[DarkOvion]

11 minutes ago, Sci_Ant said:

Not to sound arrogant but if these changes weed out the unwanted players like those who couldn't be bothered to actually play the game it's meant to be played, then the rest of the community is all the better for it. The playerbase won't die, this is a multi platform, multi million player base game that is one of the top F2P games on all platforms right now. I've been in this game for exactly 2 years now and I've managed to adapt to every change and learn how to play with every addition to the game, for better or worse, mostly for the better. New players will keep coming in and this game and it's player base aren't going anywhere, except for up.

You don't sound arrogant so much as you sound like an &#!.

This is simply yet another change that makes everything more tedious.

Not to mention that Carrier helped compensate for the bugged out out spawning of loot in walls / floors.

It already takes far too long to farm for items after recent changes, as the requirements pushed it from a reasonable choice to either farm or purchase, to needing to work to farm for items (30-40+ hours), or purchase.

Then on top of that, one of the biggest quality of life improvements, Carriers Vacuum, gets a massively reduced effectiveness, to the point it will take 50% to 100% longer to farm those resources - and when half of that 30-40 hours is often farm, that bumps up the requirement to get a lot of the new stuff to 40-50+ hours, as opposed to the previous playing for 5-10 hours to acquire.

That's over a full work week of time to get a single item.

At minimum wage that's working the equivalent of $360 / £335 for a new item.

Edited October 6, 2016 by DarkOvion

[Babellon]

1 minute ago, DarkOvion said:

 

This is simply yet another change that makes everything more tedious.

It already takes far too long to farm for items 

take 50% to 100% longer to farm those resources 

.

None of that is true. it takes exactly as long as before to farm any item. The only thing This change to Universal Pickup does is make us have to move a little further on the map to get it. It does not extend the time it takes to do so. The tedium you refer to is the grind, the effort, the time involved in playing the game. We should not get it instantly. Ever. We should not be encouraging a game play design around immediate gratification, or 5 minute intervals. We the forum minority, and that is what we are compared to the number of players who are never on forums at all, should take some personal responsibility to understand our personal agendas, opinions, inputs can affect far more people than ourselves or our small group of people we interact with. 

[DarkOvion]

4 minutes ago, Babellon said:

None of that is true. it takes exactly as long as before to farm any item. The only thing This change to Universal Pickup does is make us have to move a little further on the map to get it. It does not extend the time it takes to do so. The tedium you refer to is the grind, the effort, the time involved in playing the game. We should not get it instantly. Ever. We should not be encouraging a game play design around immediate gratification, or 5 minute intervals. We the forum minority, and that is what we are compared to the number of players who are never on forums at all, should take some personal responsibility to understand our personal agendas, opinions, inputs can affect far more people than ourselves or our small group of people we interact with. 

Please, explain to me how having to move significantly further to collect items doesn't increase the time it takes to collect the items.

Please enlighten me on that one.

 

Also note (and I've done the math, you can find it elsewhere on the forums), how my complaints are that it takes 40+ hours to get things.

Note that I said that the 5-10 hour mark to get the items was OK. This would allow you to get the item in a few nights of dedicated play, or 1-2 weeks of casual nightly play.

But having to either treat it as a full time job to get it inside of 2 weeks, or for it to take months of casual play, is hardly reasonable.

Edited October 6, 2016 by DarkOvion

[-FaberXzio-]

7 minutes ago, Babellon said:

None of that is true. it takes exactly as long as before to farm any item. The only thing This change to Universal Pickup does is make us have to move a little further on the map to get it. It does not extend the time it takes to do so. The tedium you refer to is the grind, the effort, the time involved in playing the game. We should not get it instantly. Ever. We should not be encouraging a game play design around immediate gratification, or 5 minute intervals. We the forum minority, and that is what we are compared to the number of players who are never on forums at all, should take some personal responsibility to understand our personal agendas, opinions, inputs can affect far 

2 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Please, explain to me how having to move significantly further to collect items doesn't increase the time it takes to collect the items.

Please enlighten me on that one.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by FaberXzio
i want enlightment too on that subject

[Babellon]

Just now, DarkOvion said:

Please, explain to me how having to move significantly further to collect items doesn't increase the time it takes to collect the items.

Please enlighten me on that one.

well, in a fast paced shooter you should already be moving. the distance alteration is almost negligible in terms of actual effort applied because that effort was already there, in that you are moving toward a mob, kill him, he drops an item, you still get said item. you click on a crate, that crate drops an item you pick it up automatically, you see resources on map, if you want those resources you move toward them, the distance does not change the time, because the distance is a perceptual deception, you aren't moving anywhere at all. Therefor time and distance are both relative.

[DarkOvion]

Just now, Babellon said:

well, in a fast paced shooter you should already be moving. the distance alteration is almost negligible in terms of actual effort applied because that effort was already there, in that you are moving toward a mob, kill him, he drops an item, you still get said item. you click on a crate, that crate drops an item you pick it up automatically, you see resources on map, if you want those resources you move toward them, the distance does not change the time, because the distance is a perceptual deception, you aren't moving anywhere at all. Therefor time and distance are both relative.

Except, it does.

Whereas before, you could do one pass, maybe two as you played the mission, you now explicitly have to backtrack and cover an area to get the loot due to the 88% reduction in effective area.

To get the loot in a corridor, you now have to go down that corridor three times (one up, another down, another returning to move to the next room)

This means that after clearing an area, or a corridor, you need to move through it at least 2-3 times more than you did.

This adds travel time.

It breaks the flow of the game.

And it makes things take longer to achieve the same goal.

[Babellon]

Just now, DarkOvion said:

Except, it does.

Whereas before, you could do one pass, maybe two as you played the mission, you now explicitly have to backtrack and cover an area to get the loot due to the 88% reduction in effective area.

To get the loot in a corridor, you now have to go down that corridor three times (one up, another down, another returning to move to the next room)

This means that after clearing an area, or a corridor, you need to move through it at least 2-3 times more than you did.

This adds travel time.

It breaks the flow of the game.

And it makes things take longer to achieve the same goal.

what? Man I just sat for 2 hours in a sabotage running around spree killing, like I always do. You don't have to do that now any more than you ever had to before. I'm honestly not trying to argue with you, but you're seriously exaggerating the effort involved in your statement. 

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

9 minutes ago, Babellon said:

None of that is true. it takes exactly as long as before to farm any item.

U mad, bro.

I can't pick up item that is under the stairs. Everything in a game became a pain. Just go to any synd mission and try to collect all boxes. This is a real case BTW, this is only fun i have in game yesterday -- try to collect sculptures. Just go and try. Then back and say it in my face "it take same time".

[Babellon]

2 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

U mad, bro.

I can't pick up item that is under the stairs. Everything in a game became a pain. Just go to any synd mission and try to collect all boxes. This is a real case BTW, this is only fun i have in game yesterday -- try to collect sculptures. Just go and try. Then back and say it in my face "it take same time".

It takes the same amount of time..

and no, I'm not mad at all. Are you?

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Babellon

[DarkOvion]

1 minute ago, Babellon said:

what? Man I just sat for 2 hours in a sabotage running around spree killing, like I always do. You don't have to do that now any more than you ever had to before. I'm honestly not trying to argue with you, but you're seriously exaggerating the effort involved in your statement. 

Your statement still remains 'It doesn't take extra time, you just have to move more'.

Ignoring that that extra movement takes time to do.

Then you add 'I just spent 2 hours in a sabotage killing for the sake of it'.

Do you normally spend 2 hours on a sabotage?

How did the loot numbers compare?

Are you collecting all the loot?

Do you understand math?

[-FaberXzio-]

1 minute ago, Babellon said:

well, in a fast paced shooter you should already be moving. the distance alteration is almost negligible in terms of actual effort applied because that effort was already there, in that you are moving toward a mob, kill him, he drops an item, you still get said item. you click on a crate, that crate drops an item you pick it up automatically, you see resources on map, if you want those resources you move toward them, the distance does not change the time, because the distance is a perceptual deception, you aren't moving anywhere at all. Therefor time and distance are both relative.

ya but the discussion on going to open crates and lockers isnt on this subject, thats another matter, we are talking about vacuum here, and what you mention looks like a chilling easy spy mission, and not a total war like might be a excavation, survival, incerception, defense, mobiile defense, (thought in the last 2 might be a opening for actually walking, like a couple of seconds between waves)  

lets also place some facts here, we are walking robot flesh ninjas from space that are operated by someone who mentally moves these robots from the orbit of a planet who can literally put down entire armies just with a knife and a couple of Restores, jump endless, climb any construction or mountain just by a couple of jumps, eat energy orbs and make tremendous amounts of damage in the form of skills wich also come in dozens of different ways, but now we have to walk a bit more to loose time in the middle of carnage to get items when we should clearly have enough technology to vacuum at least the previous distance for sure...

time doesnt help this case, lore and facts in game doesnt help the case, farmign for stuff like medallions and sculptures just became x2 hard and there was no reason at all for a distance nerf that suddenly happened... we all were told that sentinels would have the option to vacuum not that it would be nerfed to half the distance, that was pure dev desition over whatever we said previously

[Babellon]

Just now, DarkOvion said:

Your statement still remains 'It doesn't take extra time, you just have to move more'.

Ignoring that that extra movement takes time to do.

Then you add 'I just spent 2 hours in a sabotage killing for the sake of it'.

Do you normally spend 2 hours on a sabotage?

How did the loot numbers compare?

Are you collecting all the loot?

Do you understand math?

yes, I do normally spend 2 hours in a sabotage. I spend several hours in any number of missions, doing exactly the same thing I did today. Nothing about my game play has changed at all. Absolutely nothing, except that today I didn't need carrier to accomplish the task at hand, which was farming credits, resources, kills. that loss of 6 nanometers on my screen had absolutely no effect at all on my ability to gather those resources. I got the same amounts of everything I would of gotten before the change. 

[DarkOvion]

Just now, Babellon said:

yes, I do normally spend 2 hours in a sabotage. I spend several hours in any number of missions, doing exactly the same thing I did today. Nothing about my game play has changed at all. Absolutely nothing, except that today I didn't need carrier to accomplish the task at hand, which was farming credits, resources, kills. that loss of 6 nanometers on my screen had absolutely no effect at all on my ability to gather those resources. I got the same amounts of everything I would of gotten before the change. 

Well, then that's you.

That's not almost everyone in the game.

The norm isn't to spend 2 hours on a single mission.

And it's not '6 nanometers', it's a loss of 349 meters square of range.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

1 minute ago, Babellon said:

It takes the same amount of time..

and no, I'm not mad at all. Are you?

 

OK, u don't wanna play the game, but wanna troll on forum, this is your choice. But even here you cant just lie in face of fact. Fact is what yesterday i just walk through and look at radar, now i need do a step down at every stairs i see.

Stairs man. This is not even a corridor, or something. Just a little stairs.

[radastir]

46 minutes ago, Sci_Ant said:

Not to sound arrogant but if these changes weed out the unwanted players like those who couldn't be bothered to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played...

Not to sound sarcastic but if you have top insider connections to DE so that they "weed out" players you do not want in the game and ensure that it is played as you meant it to be played, then just tell me how the player you give the right to exist is supposed to be and which kind of appropriate playstile you command?

Edited October 6, 2016 by radastir

[Grebnennar]

1 hour ago, wwarfield said:

If you never used carrier before you have no right to talk about it . You can't say something was good or bad without testing it first. So keep your uninformed opinion for yourself please . 

Implying I don't have carrier and carrier prime.

So I see that your extra salty about this.

[morningstar999]

1 hour ago, BlueTunicLink said:

 

Be appreciative of what you guys asked for.

 

I don't know ANYONE who asked for this. honestly. I didn't think having carrier as a main sentinel being a bad thing at the end of the day. The prime does more damage than the other fighting sentinels, so people are still going to use it. If they wanted people to use more other stuff they should have buffed them up a bit -made them do more, not just kill the main thing everyone uses. 

 

[SnuggleBuckets]

48 minutes ago, Sci_Ant said:

Not to sound arrogant but if these changes weed out the unwanted players like those who couldn't be bothered to actually play the game the way it's meant to be played, then the rest of the community is all the better off for it. The player base won't die, this is a multi platform, multi million player base game that is one of the top F2P games on all platforms right now. I've been in this game for exactly 2 years now and I've managed to adapt to every change and learn how to play with every addition to the game, for better or worse, mostly for the better. New players will keep coming in and this game and it's player base aren't going anywhere, except for up.

This isn't a cult, people leaving aren't the heretics you are better without in your community.

This is a consumer product. A game. Someone earlier brought up a fallacy about appealing to popularity, but they didn't think about how it doesn't apply in a situation like this, where popularity, consumer demand, actually is important to take into account in your business strategies. And unless vacuum somehow magically takes money away from the devs, then what possible reason did they have in reducing the range of vacuum?

[Babellon]

6 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

OK, u don't wanna play the game, but wanna troll on forum, this is your choice. But even here you cant just lie in face of fact. Fact is what yesterday i just walk through and look at radar, now i need do a step down at every stairs i see.

Stairs man. This is not even a corridor, or something. Just a little stairs.

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. attempting to antagonize a childish response akin to yourself is however. If you'd like to have a mature conversation please do.

 Having to step further down some stairs to get the loot isn't a catastrophe.

6 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Well, then that's you.

That's not almost everyone in the game.

The norm isn't to spend 2 hours on a single mission.

And it's not '6 nanometers', it's a loss of 349 meters square of range.

Yes, that is 'just me'. it is how I play, while it is not the 'norm' in terms of the majority of the player base. Neither your comments or mine represent "almost everyone else in the game". it only respresents us..you, and me, and this conversation.

you're talking about the distance your eyes travel on your screen as though it is a physical distance you have to travel.  

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

Just now, Babellon said:

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. attempting to antagonize a childish response akin to yourself is however. If you'd like to have a mature conversation please do.

 Having to step further down some stairs to get the loot isn't a catastrophe.

 

Just for your knowlage, this flame what you are do difine like "demagogy", or "trolling", as we named this in internets. You not disagee with me. You just telling something without actually checking the facts. And even now, you don't say "sorry, my mistake", you say "isnt' a catastrothe". This is not what you say first. You say "same time" and this is untrue.

[DarkOvion]

Just now, Babellon said:

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling. attempting to antagonize a childish response akin to yourself is however. If you'd like to have a mature conversation please do.

 Having to step further down some stairs to get the loot isn't a catastrophe.

Yes, that is 'just me'. it is how I play, while it is not the 'norm' in terms of the majority of the player base. Neither your comments or mine represent "almost everyone else in the game". it only respresents us..you, and me, and this conversation.

you're talking about the distance your eyes travel on your screen as though it is a physical distance you have to travel.  

Well, 80% of people used Carrier - that would be primarily for Vacuums quality of life improvements.

Most people would play the missions and let Carrier collect the loot as they went.

Now, these people will have to backtrack, they will have to take more time to collect the loot.

They will not be able to collect loot glitched in walls, floors, ceilings (and that's not likely to get  fixed, as it hasn't been for years).

For most people, it will slow down the flow of the game and make things take longer.