The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Nep_Blanc]

Just now, Waxil said:

Or they'll just stop playing cause playing War-roomba is super lame?

 

O god I don't see what you mean but its funny as hell XD

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[woah_dude]

Warframe is a Loot Based Game, meaning farming for Mods/Endo/Resources/Credits = playtime, which is good to show in statistics/piecharts/show up in Steam top10 etc. If you loose as a result of the change even 10 percent of the loot u would otherwise get, from a Dev point of view u would play the game 10% more most likely, farm a bit longer, show more commitment or just buy S#&$ straight up (more incentive to buy a booster, which otherwise u would not, buy a weapon instead of farming for it, etc). 

Don't forget that with new Endo system junk mods = Endo and Devs weren't too happy last Devstream (?) when they revealed that as a result of changes, people got more Fusion energy than ever before. 

You can't really say to your playerbase directly that we want for you to farm more, slow down your acquisition of stuff speed and so on, it would piss off a lot of people (ain't no one is going to forget the "we want to lessen the grind"), thus you make subtle changes here and there, make "quality of life changes" with drawbacks in pursuit of "balance" etc. If you have no end-game, you would want to slow down the process of getting there as much as possible, so that players would invest more time/money into your game. 

Thats my cynical view at least.

From a player perspective, u could suggest that ammo/energy/resources can block bullets or that u don't want to pick something up, until u decide to do so yourself, but for that you are supposed to have toggles for obvious reasons :) 

[Silvus-Sol]

This topic isn't even about anything anymore, it's just been flamebaiting and toxicity since like page 2. Yuck.

[Eminem2420]

I'm upset kubrows and kavats got nothing this update. As a player that mains them I'm very unhappy with this update. They say they want balance yet they keep tipping the favor to sentinels again and again. Does DE just hate them like most people do?

[Valorosus]

Pity that many players won't move a bit more meters in game to pick up items... Does Warframe lost its taste for these players in such way that neccesity to pick up items with a little effort is a hindrance to their gameplay? What do You expect from game based on collecting items aka grind? It looks like only solution to their problem is (no offence ^^):

 

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Silvus-Sol said:

This topic isn't even about anything anymore, it's just been flamebaiting and toxicity since like page 2. Yuck.

Ha ha, yep! And no moderators either...

[AperoBeltaTwo]

Update: Maybe increase the range of this inbuild warframe\aw vacuum with Mastery rank.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

I dont see the need to bicker pointlessly. Vacuum is a crutch that covered what most players found an inconvenience, that inconvenience is rearing its ugly head because they busted the crutch when they should've dealt with the underlying problem, it hurts no one to leave the range alone and it hurts alot of peoples value of gameplay to Nerf it. Why upset people with the only semi logical excuse being some abstract thought of balancing vacuum against nothing, because nothing exists in the same category as vacuum. No other ability in the game is a perfect patch for a flaw in the game from the perspective of the majority of players

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Valorosus said:

Pity that many players won't move a bit more meters in game to pick up items... Does Warframe lost its taste for these players in such way that neccesity to pick up items with a little effort is a hindrance to their gameplay? What do You expect from game based on collecting items aka grind? It looks like only solution to their problem is (no offence ^^):

So do you play Warframe because you have fun shooting enemies and using parcour like grazy, or do you play Warframe because it's fun to run around and collect items?
I'm pretty sure it's all about the first one. So there's that...

[CandyDragon]

They did the range nerf to discourage camping. On paper that suggestion seems reasonable.  In practice its a response to a problem that shouldn't matter. 

Over half the game is about being stationary and defending something, punishing you for leaving the defense area to gather things.
So what gives, why the nerf?  

Do they really think people go to akkad to farm resources?
Do people really think running around like a garbage collecting space hobo is "engaging gameplay"
It honestly feels like "a minority of players do this, lets punish the entire playerbase with a nerf to try and discourage it". Only it wont, because already You can counter it by just having a max range vortex vauban in the same camping spots you already had. Which also accelerates farming by clustering the enemies you need to kill.
DE you will never, ever, counter people finding efficient farms. Just short of you making the game built around farming and punishing those who do not by extremely low drop rates. 

Personally I find loot collection when it is like this to be pointless, it does not enrich the experience, and honestly the only reason the drops exist now is because they existed at launch. I'd much rather the things just get automatically sent to the inventory and let me engage in the game at hand.  Sure it destroys that "ooooshiny" bit of gameplay, but it is far to often that it just feels like "now I have to break from the intended mission flow to gather my garbage, thanks game" 

 

TL;DR: Vacuum should be 12 meters as it was originally, these half measures trying to please one party but punish another end up coming off very unrefined. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nariala

[VonDodo]

1 hour ago, Ailissa said:

Actually the majority are silent.

 

Forums tend to only see a small portion of any given games player base. 

 

The thing there is, even though people may not say anything, what they do in game will change based on things that happen. People may not say anything about vacuum nerf but, as DE are saying 80% of us used Carrier, a number of those may switch sentinels due to the nerf.

 

Developers don't tend to do drastic changes based on the forums regardless of what anyone thinks. Be around the industry long enough and you get to meet people and talk to developers of various companies. Most changes happen due to trends in game. If a vast majority are seen using one thing then changes happen to try and push them in another direction.

 

Very, very rarely will forum posts cause major changes. 

i ll answer to your post in 2 ways:

 

1) repeating forever old and already disproved arguments is useless: the small player base on the forum represent often the more involved in the game opposed to casual player that logs sometimes

This topic have been debated on maybe ANY game forum in existence.... and it have always been anexcuse.

 

2) 80 % of players uses carriers.. once again statistic are misused since forever...without looking at the cause.

The cause should be solved not the effect.

Cause is bad  developed looting system making player wanting to sacrifice loot and performance to avoid a boring task.

 

DE solution: remove the way to avoid the boring task.

 

 

IF players are willingly to choose a carrier over a smeetha it can only means picking up loot is NOT fun.

You give up loot quantity AND crit buff to avoid an UNFUN task because that is what carrier did.

 

 

Then also changing carrier functionality is even worse... is like turning Tigris into a melee weapon.

Luckily its a free game... so if i don t like what they do i simple can stop to support the game.

Edited October 6, 2016 by VonDodo

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Valorosus said:

What do You expect from game based on collecting items aka grind?

Some of us enjoy the game for its fast paced ninja flying parkour movement and gameplay. Not everyone thinks the game is based on picking up things from the ground. I can do that outside.

[_Vortus_]

1 hour ago, Azrael said:

Have you used the kohm before? Because carrier is miles away from being able to keep the mighty kohm supplied with ammo. Same goes for amprex, imo. Ammo Case is basically a rank 3 regular mutation mod. So anything that can't get by with that still needs mutation.

This is a matter of opinion. If they had kept it at 12m, it would be objective fact, but they didn't so it's not.

Please lose the disrespectful attitude. If you want us to respect your views, you need to be respectful.

Yes, one of my favorite weapons.   Kohm can run out on short missions.    So it seemed fine to me with just Carrier now for normal runs. Additional mutate is need for long runs.

Hmmm So you are going to say they are not more useful?   Curious how that would be?  All Sentinels gained a vacuum ability increasing their usefulness.  Even Carrier gained additional use.  Feel free to not use them if you don't think they are better now than before.

The disrespect was aimed at the group of players that fit the description.    If the shoe fit, then wear it, if it didn't, then it wasn't aimed at you so you shouldn't feel disrespected in the first place.  

47 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Loss:
We lost one good Vacuum.

Gained:
all 4 sentinels now suck.

It was reduced, its not gone.   

All were given an additional power.   If you don't find them useful, don't use them.   Simple as that. 

As to those arguing decimals and fractions.   All sentinels were given something they didn't have before.  Only Carrier actually lost something.   That is inarguable fact,  DE themselves said it was an experiment and is subject to change based on results.    It is way to soon to render a judgement on whether or not 6m radius is enough.    So far in my games, it has worked well enough.    Was it perfect, no.   But, bad enough to cause a new virtual salt flat, no.     

 

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, _Vortus_ said:

It was reduced

To the point where it's useless.
 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Nep_Blanc]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Update: Maybe increase the range of this inbuild warframe\aw vacuum with Mastery rank.

Worst IDEA EVAH, aside from the fact I got MR 22 I hate that idea.
Why would you ever do a thing like this like MR 22 give me 22times more vacuum range?
well 22x6 is like 132 meters OMG. not that I want that but that is just like Gpull MAG, and we know what happend with that.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[RikerWatts]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I picked the guy i was talking to originally. And I was right on his hypocrisy.

you mean usage of carrier? Being below 50% though? that's impressive by todays standards especially from a guy who I've played with that doesn't use sentinels a lot if at all lmao
But AYY you proved his hypocrisy (You didn't but I guess ya did) and now he is wrong for saying "Vacuum is fine where it is" and  that his numbers (of which a digital extremes member DERebecca posted on a locked thread) was just as wrong.
Who could have predicted that in a game about farming better with better stuff helps us farm better and what better way to farm better than to have the items come to us! DE acknowledged this and was like "we should integrate this in different ways, it seems to be the main focus of Carrier!" and they did. And now you don't need to be forced to use only carrier! Be the difference, make sentinels great again!

Flamebaiting and toxicity? I'm the lighter guy here. Lee will pulverize you if you keep being an idiot and Nethian will bring you the facts that he KNOWS are right and will actively see if you are NOT right. But guess what, both will acknowledge if they are wrong, just like me. however, they are more volatile against people who are wrong about statistics, lore, usage, and gameplay. Cause guess what! One of them is from the military and has 97 million exp on Zephyr, and the other went to school specifically for game design.
I'm just a very optimistic person who observes everything he can. Knowledge is great, it's even greater when it's correct.

 

[VergilDT]

The solution is to revert the useless vacuum change and players need to learn what missions,ect, is better for the other sentinels. carrier was good for survivals and speed running(even though I abhor the rushtard mentality).

Shade is perfect for spy missions and stealth exterms and similar stealthable missions,

Diriga is good for dropping up to at least lv50 heavies at range, in my personal experience Diriga will attack a heavy first if in range, while you're killing the rank and file, also for melee only frames, diriga will shoot the laser sensors and in my experience will prioritize flying drones. and its aoe zapper is good for counter CQC.

wyrm is fairly good at protecting squishy frames from CQC.

Helios is good for scans on the move.

I don't mention Deathcube because wyrm is a direct upgrade and I got rid of him long ago, And I don't mention Djinn because I've yet to use it and have no grounds for an opinion on it.

That is all the ones I currently use. now all the sents do carriers function much worse and carrier is now redundant with proper ammo management with very very few exceptions.

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Hmmm So you are going to say they are not more useful?

I was responding to your comment that "even carrier became more useful." Carrier became much less useful when it comes to picking things up off the ground.

 

5 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

The disrespect was aimed at the group of players that fit the description.

No. This is not how things work. You don't get to disrespect people then say "well if you don't fit that description then I wasn't disrespecting you." Disrespect of any kind is not okay, no matter who it's aimed at. So lose it.

[Valorosus]

7 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

So do you play Warframe because you have fun shooting enemies and using parcour like grazy, or do you play Warframe because it's fun to run around and collect items?
I'm pretty sure it's all about the first one. So there's that...

I enjoy both of them, for they're not contradictionary to each other.

[RikerWatts]

1 minute ago, VergilDT said:

carrier is now redundant with proper ammo management with very very few exceptions.

True but.
FAST FIRE RATE SOMA
HIKOU PRIME
POX
MANY BULLETS BOAR PRIME
WRAITH TWIN FRICKIN FAST VIPERS  (no really it can hit like 28 fire rate)

free ammo mutation is nice.
 

[Slaviar]

3 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

And he used to pick up and carrier your loot, now he just converts ammo from one type to another. "Carrier" != "Bullet Maker"

While also increasing ammo capacity, therefore carrying it for you

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

Worst IDEA EVAH, aside from the fact I got MR 22 I hate that idea.
Why would you ever do a thing like this like MR 22 give me 22times more vacuum range?
well 22x6 is like 132 meters OMG. not that I want that but that is just like Gpull MAG, and we know what happend with that.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

22 meters maybe? With 10 base at rank 0?

[Voltage]

Now I am a carrier user, but I was planning on using shade after this update. This update for me isn't so much of a nerf, but another example of the devs NOT LISTENING. We got a new machete without any stances or fixes to the old ones. DE KNOWS that machetes need work. We get a vaccum nerf DESPITE people asking to make it a warframe passive or all companions. This update is yet another example of Devs purposely not listening to the community. Want another example? People have been begging for Endless to feel more rewarding, so what does DE do? Give us a 20 min survival tactical alert where 95% of the time you get mutagen mass and credits. Sounds like an issue we had early this year? Does T3S Rotation C ring a bell? DE isn't listening and its the reason I stopped supporting this game forever.

Edited October 6, 2016 by --Q--Voltage

[Nep_Blanc]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

22 meters maybe? With 10 base at rank 0?

well if you go that way it is still broken as frak but a lot more appealing.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

well if you go that way it is still broken as frak but a lot more appealing.

Not terribly broken. Would allow for more parcour and free movement.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo