The 're-buff' to Vacuum actually made things worse

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

Twitter handles are not linked to Warframe accounts.

I don't think they were only receiving them through twitter, and if they did, then there's nothing to be done.

[Larred]

Just now, Azrael said:

While I agree that's childish, it's different than threats. Hell, I'll bet half of them do it ironically. Those that mean it are just trying to get attention, or don't really understand the issues involved. But they aren't threatening DE, and if they were they'd be gone in an instant. All I'm saying is: don't put that on the community as a whole. Anyone who acts that way is a cancer we will not miss, not a tenno with strong emotions. If some crazy person sends threats to rebecca (which is a crime, btw), that doesn't mean our community is doing that.

But I totally believe that it happened.

i wonder how international law handles cyber bullying and harassment 

[Noobverest]

I don't get it

Difference before and after:

Carrier has 6m vacuum and so does every other sentinel

Carrier has 12m vacuum and so does every other sentinel

 

JESUS OMG CARRIER IS OP NOW IT HAS SOMETHING THAT EVERY OTHER SENTINEL CAN USE

 

BURN DE BURN WARFRAME RAGEQUIT UNINSTALL

/hyperbole

Edited October 6, 2016 by Noobverest
Just making sure people know I'm making fun of them

[Urlan]

17 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Hide contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

I would say that Death Threats are never okay in game environments, that said I participated in both the workshop thread, and many of the subsequent threads about the vacuum change here on Warframe forums, reddit, and other areas as well  as in the game, while I saw many players bring up their lack of interest in continuing to play in light of the nefing of vacuum prior - which is understandable, and a personal call - but saw no one threatening the life of other players or devs. While such behavior is not acceptable - its more than wrong to say WE the player base threatened any such thing. If some sociopaths have, I am sure that DE has taken appropriate measures (Bannings, and reporting to authorities as such is) but lumping the community with that is also uncalled for and untrue.

What happened in those threads was discussing what players felt was the best call for Vacuum and if players didn't like it before and after, what was the best option. While I might not particularly agree with the previous path or this compromise; I recognize such things are a work in progress and commentary on the subject was what was asked for and given. I respect DE for listening to such enterprises even if the choices taken are not what I personally agree with. And by and large, that is also my experience with the community as a whole. What players have asked for - as DE Steve mentioned prior - is a universal vacuum since looting in a fast paced environment is part of the appeal of Warframe for many players. As the many threads about the subject proved, its a touchy subject that by and large, many feel would be best served by making the precept merged into either sentinels (as was recently tried, albeit to a nerfed extent) or with warframes themselves. For the most part, the community actually appreciated the idea behind making Sentinels have the precept by default, the problem presented was the nerfed range and whether pet companions should be added to have similar done to them as many asked in those same threads.

We have yet to see whether having Vacuum be a mod for any sentinel is yet the best path but the community did not demand blood - though its possible that some disturbed individuals may have - the community gave feedback.

[Azrael]

Just now, (PS4)rinneganadrian said:

I don't think they were only receiving them through twitter, and if they did, then there's nothing to be done.

Sending death threats is a crime, even on twitter. They can contact the police (okay, I have no idea which police, because canada, maybe fbi?).

I don't really know what they can do, but I know it's a crime, and hopefully there will be an official response.

I mean, c'mon! This is MOM we're talking about here! NOBODY THREATENS MY SPACE MOM!   (jk)  (but not really)

[-N7-Leonhart]

29 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

We started with Carrier already carrying a little over half the Sentinel usage. Then we went to a point where there was actually a better reason to use other Sentinels (if a small, insignificant reason). Now, we're at a point where there is zero reason to use anything but Carrier. That's not good.

Yes, because everyone will play with ammo hungry guns and use them to the full potential 100% of the time so they would absolutely need ammo mutation always.........

[Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Larred said:

i wonder how international law handles cyber bullying and harassment 

Yeah I have no idea. But a "murder threat" as reb put it, is more than cyber bullying. That's much more serious.

[aligatorno]

Being such drama queens, telling everyone to be ashamed on almost every thread for something that some random guys did, is not good either. There was a lot of feedback in the last few days, and while not every single one was constructive or was just plain anger spilling, it doesnt change the fact that the community responded and DE listened. You should be prepared however for a S#&$show when you make drastic changes that affect 80% of the user base.

I highly doubt that this change was made solely because of the threats, if they had a role at all. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by aligatorno

[-InV-Skitz0]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)rinneganadrian said:

"Exaggeration" because this isn't something that has happened before?

The Devs have touched on this subject before, in a joking manner, but it has happened before, it's sad to see this is becoming a norm amongst the community where a slight change to anything can result in a death threat directed at people not even directly involved.

Reminds me of Dark Sectors. I received Death Threats commonly back then.

Edited October 6, 2016 by -InV-Skitz0

[--Q--uixotic]

6 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

There's a very good reason why people liked Carrier (aside from its tankiness). The other abilities were either not as reliable, or straight-up bugged. Nothing else did what it was supposed to with any real reliability (and no, I don't include Helios in that comparison. It did what it needed to do, but Carrier just did more useful things).

 

The main ability for Carrier was to collect things for you though, no?

Looter isn't very good since it has about a 3 second delay before shooting a crate, then another before shooting the next crate.

The other sentinels all have that ability now, with Carrier having ammo capacity+mutation as its special ability.

My complaint with Helios is that it steals my synthesis scanner targets. Otherwise it seems good, though I don't have the vulnerability scanner mod yet.

The others haven't appealed to me, but I'll give them a go at some point.

 

[Xekrin]

43 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

I made a nice post here regarding all sentinels and why carrier is still better.  I guess it applies.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Xekrin

[AM-Bunny]

But... what if I almost never encounter ammo problems? And in the rare event that I do, I have plenty of Ammo Restores? Why would I care about Carrier then?

Yes, it's still a competent Sentinel, but there are situations where others might suit your needs better. Which was the entire point.

I'll ignore the meta-complaint of OP.

[Noobverest]

Talking about "tankiness" is kind of dumb.

Before Carrier prime was a thing, Wyrm prime was the tankiest because of power creep

Just wait till a Shade prime or something and it'll be like Ryu vs Ken, Oh so similar yet a bit different, what do I choose..?!? to go invis or to have free mutation??!?

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

28 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

Dude, I don't think you understand, DE should have kept Vacuum the way it was and then given it to all the sentinels, it just makes sense because it gives ALL sentinels the benefit of having Carriers original ability because here is the thing, DE wanted to see how much the usage % of sentinels changed when they gave Vacuum to all of them, nerfing the range of Vacuum does nothing to change that number except make people either use Carrier or not use a sentinel at all out of protest, the big problem is that Carriers new ability is still better than that of any other sentinel other than Diriga.

People don't need a sentinel for invisibility anymore considering the amount of other ways to get it, especially considering that shades invisibility it unreliable.

They don't need Wyrms terrible CC (Seriousley have you seen it, it's a joke) because if you want actual CC then go with a Warframe that's good at it.

Helios is now overshadowed by the research hammer that is much less of a hassle to use (except with flying enemies of which I personally haven't had too many issues with).

Dethcube is a joke, nuff said.

Djinn is a good way of being killed.

So right now, Carrier is the best option other than Diriga (who actually has some decent CC, better than Wyrms at least), but carrier is waaay mor survivable than Diriga as long as its the Prime version, so, it'll probably be used more anyway (also Carriers new ability is actually really good, making weapons with high ammo usage more viable is a great edition in my books, all the best weapons at the moment don't use much ammo, which is probably what makes this less OP than people think)

[ZeroSample]

15 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

There's a very good reason why people liked Carrier (aside from its tankiness). The other abilities were either not as reliable, or straight-up bugged. Nothing else did what it was supposed to with any real reliability (and no, I don't include Helios in that comparison. It did what it needed to do, but Carrier just did more useful things).

Again, speak for yourself. The very reason most people used Carrier was Vacuum. It was stated many, many times by a countless amount of players and universal Vacuum was requested many, many times. DE taking the step of making Vacuum universal was the result of said requests. They didn't just randomly go "Oh, Vacuum for everyone would be kewl!". The "whining" ,as you call it, was also directed at the Vacuum nerf. I'm not saying nobody gives a F*** about Carrier's new ability (which is apparently "OP" lol), but I daresay there's a bunch of people out there who only cared about Vacuum.

Edited October 6, 2016 by ZeroSample

[IceColdHawk]

43 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Are you saying we should be happy that we had to pay for our 'requested' buff with death threats?

Are you saying we should all believe this change happened only because someone had to show DE his anger in letters and totally not because 99% of the community was requesting it like this? All this drama, jesus.

It actually is way better than before. All sentinels got pretty much buffed now. Carrier is just still very useful because his prime variant has a useful ability + most durable stats. The other ones are squishy and mostly not as useful. Looking at you shade and dethcube.

Edited October 6, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

2 minutes ago, ZeroSample said:

Again, speak for yourself. The very reason most people used Carrier was Vacuum. It was stated many, many times by a countless amount of players and universal Vacuum was requested many, many times. DE taking the step of making Vacuum universal was the result of said requests. They didn't just randomly go "Oh, Vacuum for everyone would be kewl!". The "whining" ,as you call it, was also directed at the Vacuum nerf. I'm not saying nobody gives a F*** about Carrier's new ability (which is apparently "OP"), but I daresay there's a bunch of people out there who only cared about Vacuum.

Carriers new ability isn't really that OP, basically all the best weapons at the moment have low ammo consumption, the only thing Carriers new ability does is make the less powerful weapons more viable (except for Amprex, dat OP), I can't really thing of a top tier weapon that would benefit from higher ammo efficiency, or faster firerate that doesn't remove a mod that isn't better (except of corse Amprex, but that things ammo consumption is so incredible that this wont help much).

[Urlan]

17 minutes ago, Larred said:

i wonder how international law handles cyber bullying and harassment 

If I remember correctly from working in customer service and such in the past, death threats are a criminal offense in the US and Canada that would be handled by reporting it to the police. In the US, I don't believe intent on electronic mediums is required but Canada might still have that requirement, either way a report to the local law enforcement with the user's identity, post or message, and any other available details would usually be useful to them. Cyber bullying and harassment are covered in different laws and handled in a less uniform fashion from place to place.

[Wolfdoggie]

I got what I wanted/needed. I used Helios today with my beautiful 12m vacuum for sparkling clean floors. It's a lovely day for WF imo. I use Warding Halo on them though so they don't squish. Hopefully I get a tankier Helios one day. :) Puppies and Kittens will need loot love one day though but I'm sure they'll think of something now. So it's a good starting point for something better and it's great that they listened to the QQs and revoked one of the worst video game nerfs I've ever seen. =)))

[Larred]

2 minutes ago, Urlan said:

If I remember correctly from working in customer service and such in the past, death threats are a criminal offense in the US and Canada that would be handled by reporting it to the police. In the US, I don't believe intent on electronic mediums is required but Canada might still have that requirement, either way a report to the local law enforcement with the user's identity, post or message, and any other available details would usually be useful to them. Cyber bullying and harassment are covered in different laws and handled in a less uniform fashion from place to place.

thanks that was a concise and somewhat informative answer, cant expect you to know it backwards and forwards but its more then i knew before you posted, thanks!

 

on another note, i hope whoever sent her that gets the worst punishment possible

[(PSN)xXToastiButterXx]

Let's all just relax and tune in to Prime Time and see our Beautiful space mom!

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, Wolfdoggie said:

I got what I wanted/needed. I used Helios today with my beautiful 12m vacuum for sparkling clean floors. It's a lovely day for WF imo. I use Warding Halo on them though so they don't squish. Hopefully I get a tankier Helios one day. :) Puppies and Kittens will need loot love one day though but I'm sure they'll think of something now. So it's a good starting point for something better and it's great that they listened to the QQs and revoked one of the worst video game nerfs I've ever seen. =)))

I wouldn't call it one of the worst nerfs, as it still functioned to a state, and having the vacuum available to other sentinels without a mod was a good step; the problem is the unasked for nerf to the ability's range. I would think that with more fiddling or putting the ability innate to warframes, we might get a more ideal situation.

[Slaytanic93]

47 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

 

39 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Are you saying we should be happy that we had to pay for our 'requested' buff with death threats?

 

37 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

But as of now, we got what we wanted, but not at the cost we should have payed.

I am quoting three posts you made, to point out something you keep ignoring. Please don't misunderstand me.

Were there childish posts? Yes, definitely.

Were there "death threats"? Apparently so, as the screenshot posted shows.

Is that bad? Yes it is. It is disgusting and immature, and I am not defending the users who were part of that in any way.

But to generalize, and say "we" only got the changes because of the fits and death threats? That's the "price" we had to pay? That's not true.

I am not trying to white knight anyone, in fact, most of the time I find myself disagreeing with everyone on these Forums. But there were, there always are, legit feedback threads among the hatred and childish screams. It may be difficult to find but it's there somewhere, someone, posted actual feedback on the whole deal.

The fact that people are immature enough to take things so freaking far is sad, but you can't say DE did what they did because of the death threats.

I doubt they would feel pressured by the things said by "1337_G4M3R_bR0", or "J0HND0E_H4x0R" (obvious generic names to make a point). These users are most likely underaged and don't see the full extent of their disgusting threats, but they also are nowhere in position to actually put DE in danger.

Couldn't it be that they changed things because they followed feedback? Why everytime that something changes, something happens, it has to be because "we were childish", "we were immature"... Is there never actual feedback?

Reconsider from saying we "only" got changes because of the senseless screams... That's a way to completely ignore everyone that potentially helped DE decide a course of action by giving actual feedback.

 

 

[Lanadra]

I think right now, DE got it right on the money, at least to me.

-This- is what we wanted, a normal, unmodified, un-nerfed, Vacuum for all sentinels, who cares about what Carrier got in replacement, we can now use the original Vacuum on all sentinels, I can now use Shade Prisma without becoming endlessly irritated by having to zig zag to get every drop.

DE, here's a:

Edited October 6, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[VirtualViolet]

57 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

We started with Carrier already carrying a little over half the Sentinel usage. Then we went to a point where there was actually a better reason to use other Sentinels (if a small, insignificant reason). Now, we're at a point where there is zero reason to use anything but Carrier. That's not good.

80% is a little over half? lol