Virsalus Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Picking up loot without some sort of extra retrieval functionality is so much of a hassle that pet companions are simply worse than sentinels now when it comes to overall QoL, so after making Vacuum a universal thing for sentinels it only seems reasonable to make Retrieve a universal thing for pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmareT12 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Chesa Kubrow AI for everyone? You don't know the hell it would unleash, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._Vendetta_. Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Fair enough, so how do you suggest that we fix the other issue that this change would make? All sentinels becoming decisevely worst than kavats and kubrows? Edited October 11, 2016 by ._Vendetta_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinobu_Scorpion Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 It's really not that big of a hassle, seriously. And this: 1 minute ago, ._Vendetta_. said: Fair enough, so how do you suggest that we fix the other problem that this will make? All sentinels becoming decisevely worst than kavats and kubrows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar.Heart Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Just now, ._Vendetta_. said: All sentinels becoming decisevely worst than kavats and kubrows? This is why a universal loot (as in mods, craft mats, and so on) vacuum on the Warframes would have been better. But hey, I'll take what I can get, as long as DE doesn't nerf it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._Vendetta_. Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Problem is... sentinels could have Vacuum with only a change to Carrier so that they all are equivalent in Power+QoL terms. But Kubrows and Kavats aren't like that, they are way more powerful than any sentinel, they are also cute (we gotta be realistic we are talking about pets so this is a valid point). So if you make Kavats and Kubrows have same QoF than Sentinels (and i'm ok for that), I want to know what change would have to be made in conjuction so that sentinels won't become just less cute and underpowered companions when comparing to the them. Edited October 11, 2016 by ._Vendetta_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elctrcstel Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, ._Vendetta_. said: Fair enough, so how do you suggest that we fix the other issue that this change would make? All sentinels becoming decisevely worst than kavats and kubrows? ^ i agree with Vendetta here. Sentinels have their niche tight now and i think it should stay that way. if we have a universal retrieve/vacuum on all companions, do you really think people will choose sentinels and their limited survivability and utility over Kubrows/Kavats and their brute force/utiilty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 didn't devs say with vacuum within a companion vacuum was not completely off the table? that in mind it could happen but as many pointed out sentinels would become obsolete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._Vendetta_. Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said: ^ i agree with Vendetta here. Sentinels have their niche tight now and i think it should stay that way. if we have a universal retrieve/vacuum on all companions, do you really think people will choose sentinels and their limited survivability and utility over Kubrows/Kavats and their brute force/utiilty? I know I wouldn't ever touch a sentinel again, being sincere here. The only reason (right now) to not use a pet its the QoL they (still) don't provide. So... if OP suggests we discard this in favor of universal QoL, I predict the sentinels would need a very strong new feature to even start being considerable against those "new carrier cats and dogs"... lets face it, we all love cats and dogs, so we will only use flying robots if they are way more confortable (QoL) or just straight better in terms of power. Edited October 11, 2016 by ._Vendetta_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elctrcstel Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, ._Vendetta_. said: The only reason (right now) to not use a pet its the QoL they (still) don't provide. even in the light of recent additions to pc, i still plan on using my Kubrow/Kavats in missions over sentinels. im far enough into the game that i can let resources or a common/uncommon mod slip through the cracks from time to time. like you said, Sentinels would have to get a very sizeable QoL buff to make them a feasible option if pets were given universal vacuum access. like buffing weapon damage, HP/Shields/Armor, or making some cool effects like they did with the Diriga/Gazal combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesyol Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Is it so hard to believe that you can play and enjoy this game without vacuum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarEdge7 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I don't need my cute dogs and cats running around retrieving loot. I want to see them confused the hilarious fuak out of Grineer or tear Corpus' heads out of their helmets, with the helmets still attached to their necks. I think they're doing that job quite nicely atm. AND they're bigger and cuter, and you can pet them. Buffer companion/hellhound fleshripper > hovering vacuum in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misgenesis Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) Where does it end? Lets make everything suck up loot for us. Edited October 11, 2016 by Misgenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._Vendetta_. Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Hesyol said: Is it so hard to believe that you can play and enjoy this game without vacuum? 1: Anyone saying you can't? 2: If something its sufficient you should halt progress and stick to status quo? 3: How could you possibly know what I can or cannot enjoy? Edited October 11, 2016 by ._Vendetta_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virsalus Posted October 11, 2016 Author Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) If vacuum on pets would make sentinels obsolete, then they should make sentinels more interesting to compensate. Every pet and sentinel should be useful in certain scenarios. It should not boil down to whether it has vacuum or not, which I believe is what made them introduce universal vacuum in the first place. Also, yes I can play without vacuum, bit I don't like it. Because the regular loot pickup range is like a meter or so and whenever I play without vacuum I keep looking on the minimap for pick ups and have to move around a lot more to actually find them, especially on more vertical maps, reducing my focus on actually fulfilling the mission objectives. Edited October 11, 2016 by Virsalus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesyol Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, ._Vendetta_. said: 1: Anyone saying you can't? 2: If something its sufficient you should halt progress and stick to status quo? 3: How could you possibly know what I can or cannot enjoy? Anyone saying I was talking to you exactly? Many people were making those topics, how they can't play anything else but Carrier. Now they want Vacuum on everything. I've been using Kavats since they appear and I can't say I was suffering because I had to make few more steps. So when I see so many people asking for more vacuum I'm really surprised, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackviator Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 2 hours ago, ._Vendetta_. said: So if you make Kavats and Kubrows have same QoF than Sentinels (and i'm ok for that), I want to know what change would have to be made in conjuction so that sentinels won't become just less cute and underpowered companions when comparing to the them. You don't have to feed/use gene replenishes on a sentinel. Kubrows and Kavats cost a lot of credits to take care of over time. Also, they have variable health values/damage values depending on how well you take care of them. Plus, y'know, sentinels shoot things for you, and Kubrows/Kavats are limited to melee. I feel all of those are enough of a tradeoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elctrcstel Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jackviator said: You don't have to feed/use gene replenishes on a sentinel. Kubrows and Kavats cost a lot of credits to take care of over time. Also, they have variable health values/damage values depending on how well you take care of them. HP drains 10% per daily reset (5% with the upgrade installed) and a stabilizer heals 40%. 1 pack of restores gives you 6 for 75k credits. so you use one every 4 (8 days with upgrade). those 6 restores will last you 24 days (48 days with upgrade). if you can't get 75K credits in 24 (48) days, you have bigger issues. loyalty degrades 20% /daily reset if the incubator was not interacted with in some way and 40% if they die in battle. you get 3 "interactions" per day that restores 20% loyalty. another easily manageable resource. 21 minutes ago, Jackviator said: Plus, y'know, sentinels shoot things for you, and Kubrows/Kavats are limited to melee. last i checked, the sentinel guns were total junk and at best provide light CC and DPS. Pets rend the enemies in twain with each bite/swipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 To be honest even if pets got a vaccum mod I'd think twice before slotting it in my Smeeta. (When solo) I often wait until the x2 buff before picking up certain things (like reactant, tellurium or sometimes argon) and I wouldn't want the cat to walk around gathering all drops without it. Still, if such a mod was ever given to kubrows and catbrows it would have to be a lot less powerful, with a much smaller area, since they walk around so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackviator Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said: HP drains 10% per daily reset (5% with the upgrade installed) and a stabilizer heals 40%. 1 pack of restores gives you 6 for 75k credits. so you use one every 4 (8 days with upgrade). those 6 restores will last you 24 days (48 days with upgrade). if you can't get 75K credits in 24 (48) days, you have bigger issues. loyalty degrades 20% /daily reset if the incubator was not interacted with in some way and 40% if they die in battle. you get 3 "interactions" per day that restores 20% loyalty. another easily manageable resource. That's assuming you're able to log in every day and manage those resources, do credit farms, etc. Some of us can't. Busy schedules and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elctrcstel Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Just now, Jackviator said: That's assuming you're able to log in every day and manage those resources, do credit farms, etc. Some of us can't. Busy schedules and whatnot. simple solution then, if you can't log on, put them in stasis...no degradation while in stasis. and pop them back out when you get a good amount of play time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipputer Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 7 hours ago, ._Vendetta_. said: Fair enough, so how do you suggest that we fix the other issue that this change would make? All sentinels becoming decisevely worst than kavats and kubrows? You serious right now? Pets have a singular function that they focus on, sometimes a second one depending on their initial ability. Sentinels have universal utility. Medi-ray? Guardian on every single sentinel, instead of just one breed of Kubrow? The ability to shoot weapons that you can customize the damage types and other stats of? Neither of those is to mention the upkeep costs that pets have which sentinels don't. To say that pets using Retrieve or Vacuum would make sentinels useless is to have no idea about why sentinels are attractive to use, in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateGrr Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 9 hours ago, Hemmo67 said: didn't devs say with vacuum within a companion vacuum was not completely off the table? This is truth. TVW was focused on Sentinels because they had a much larger sample size of data that had a mind boggling lop side in it. 80% of players who ran Sentinels ran Carrier/Carrier Prime. And I'm sure we've all seen the players who willingly die just so they can respawn with their Carriers again after the little floating loot sack bites it. I have hope my Chesa will one day have a vaccum Aura as well, letting the fluffy bear I call a space dog get all my phat loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._Vendetta_. Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) Duplicated post by accident, ignore. Edited October 12, 2016 by ._Vendetta_. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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