founders opinions wanted

[Rakosta_Kai]

For my part, I have advocated having Excal P. being released in a different skin for a long time now.

The Founders skin is the Founders skin and it shouldn't be re-released under any circumstance but an Excal Prime MK-2 with an entirely different look altogether could, conceivably, be released without too much argument imo.

The folks who would complain about not getting the founder skin will still have something to complain about... Everyone else will have finally gotten the Prime they were after.

 

But to re-release un-altered Founders items?...Definitely not.

DE's word would be poop from that day forward imo.

That's the kind of reputation hit game companies shouldn't ever want to be saddled with. Likewise, that kind of hit follows the individual developers for years to come.

There are games that players won't touch with a 39½ foot pole if certain developers or producers are involved with them.

[LethalAffliction]

1. Founder packs have always been a one chance opportunity in a game's infancy.
2. A deciding factor upon said purchase of items is the exclusivity.
   • A1954 oldsmobile f-88 goes for $3M because it's the only car of it to exist. If you purchased said car, for the exclusivity, then would you not care if the company mass produced more after said purchase so your $3M dollar car becomes a $3K car?
3. Alteration of someone's purchase, or reasons of purchase is bad business. Someone will always like, love, or hate the alteration.
   • Would it make it any better if the company said "but hey, you get these cool fuzzy dice for your rearview mirror?"
   • Would it make it any better if you purchased a mustang, and then 4 years later they swapped it out for a sedan under your nose?
4. The only reason people want Founder items is because they can't have it, might possibly use it, or just want the MR experience. The latter and former most likely as I don't see a whole lot of Excalibur's running around.
5. The Founder weapons are sub-par in-game and costed a lot so Prime Access prices don't give it justice.
   • $100 pack for Skana Prime and $250 pack for Lato Prime.
   • $50 pack Excalibur Prime is a minute buff to stats. The real perk of the Void's death orb energy replenishment has already been taken away with the Void explosion since the Void's purpose now is Argon farming more or less.
6. It's a reward for funding a game in it's early developmental stages. When DE was a small crew, and the game wasn't nearly as complex or exciting as it is now. Back when we had limited sprint via the stamina bar and a handful of frames/mods.

So, with all that said. I say no. Hundreds of other games offer Founder items without ever being rereleased. I understand it sucks, especially the MR thing. But it is what it is.

Edited October 13, 2016 by LethalAffliction

[D0DECA]

I know I'm not a founder but I particularly like the message of this thread and if you let me, I'd like to add my thoughts on that matter.

From the Founders Program Page;
"For a limited time only, here’s your chance to cut the line PLUS get exclusive in-game items and privileges only available to Founders."
The program was clear on what items the Package Tiers contain and that they are exclusive to founders.

However, it can be argued that making primed (superior) versions of popular equipment exclusive was a bad choice on DE's end. And I think it was.
But I also think it would be wrong for them to go back on their word and break their deals with those who were willing to invest a great deal of money and trust into the developement of this game (at that time).

I am ok with having no access to those items because of the aforementioned (and following) reasons.
I really dislike the approach some fellow non-founders take if they start Threads about making these items available to everyone.

Essentially, all I ever read in those Threads is; "I missed the opportunity to get something nice and that's just unbearably unfair." and "I probably invested even more into this game than most founders." and "Those arrogant founders do not deserve to have exclusive stuff." and frankly, that's just immature BS.

Yes, you (and me too) missed the opportunity for those items. Things like that happen in life. Get over it.
Yes, you probably invested even more into this game than some Founders. But you (and me too) still missed the opportunity to get those items.
Yes, some founders feel the need to boast about their exclusivity and act arrogantly towards non-founders.
They still deserve to get what they payed for... if nothing else. And you (and me too) missed the opportunity to get those items.

I think it would be... unwise for DE to give in to the whining of a really small (but loud) fraction of this community.

If these items are made available to non-founders just to silent the complaints, it'd send the wrong message.

I think for the time being DE should stick to the deals of the Founders Program and ignore the recurring pleads for excal prime and whatever.
Adding similar (and probably superior) items like Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime, or releasing the umbra version of Excalibur might be the better move here.

I also think there will be a certain point of warframe's life cycle at wich re-releasing these exclusive items makes sense and is commonly acceptable, but that point is just not now.

Edited December 17, 2016 by DNG0

[VaykorKek]

Thankyou everyone for your replies! I would like to reinstate a few things: 

1 - it seems some people assume i am not a founder. However If you would look at the icon next to my avatar, or my title, you would see that i am. This means my point of view comes from someone who already has these items. 

2 - im not sure why this needs to be said, but i think i already made it clear that im not creating a thread asking for him to be available again, im only asking for founder/other peoples opinions on the subject. A few people dont seem to understand that.

3 - Personally, i dont think de logically should re release the items, because that would mean they are breaking their word. Howver, in the unlikely event that this would happen, i would be all for it. It would give others a chance to get the items, stop some of the complaining, give us founders extra goodies and even open the door for more reworks ( such as a buff to excal prime and a rework to his rather outdated skin )

Edited October 13, 2016 by VaykorKek

[Zhoyzu]

4 hours ago, BAD9eR said:

i may be wrong but isnt there a founder only forum where you could discuss this w/o attracting rage/ beg / whine posts ? :)

 

No, the Design council forums is where only DE has the privilege to post. we just can view and reply.

[N64Gamefreak]

11 hours ago, Yaerion said:

To get back into the discussion, I also think that the taboo about this should end with a thread about this matter into the Design Council opened to the Founders only

Again, Yaerion, not all Founders have Design Council access.

[Yaerion]

9 minutes ago, N64Gamefreak said:

Again, Yaerion, not all Founders have Design Council access.

True, thanks for reminding, that's something to consider if I ask a place for us to discuss such stuff.

[MadHatHacker]

Just a quick note, you can't sue or otherwise seek damages against Digital Extremes if they rerelease the founder's content. 

I see a lot of people saying this, and it absolutely isn't true. It's kinda shady, yes, but it's by no means illegal. 

[LethalAffliction]

1 hour ago, MadHatHacker said:

Just a quick note, you can't sue or otherwise seek damages against Digital Extremes if they rerelease the founder's content. 

I see a lot of people saying this, and it absolutely isn't true. It's kinda shady, yes, but it's by no means illegal. 

Especially since it's covered in either the EULA or that other thing (one or the other) that all digital property is the property of DE. You can't sell accounts or sue since it's not your property.

But yeah. It's shady and leaves a sour taste in your mouth if it does happen but nothing anyone can do.

[12time]

I have been playing the game since it was first released as open beta on steam. At the time with my cost of living and income that I had, it would have been a bit of a silly decision to spend that kind of money on any game really. I loved the game a lot, even that early on, with the little content it had, I saw the potential; but I was a somewhat casual player (maybe 3 or 4 hours a week).

Fast forward to current times. I have now in the past 3 years put easily over 400$ into this game. The odd prime pack and any time I ever hit that lovely 75% off plat' I would buy the biggest package. Could I go back in time and provided myself with the extra money, I would have absolutely invested in the games early development. Probably the biggest package. (I also worked in a Starbucks in London and provided Steve with coffee many times which I would like to think helped fuel the development of the game in some way haha)

To ask for them to make all of the founders stuff accessible to the generic player I think would be wrong. But maybe if a player meets certain prerequisites, like time played, mastery rank, real money investments into the game over said time played. Then maybe once the requirements are met they can message that player and provide them with an opportunity to purchase the in game founders items.

I just feel like I have invested a lot of time and a generous amount of money into the game and would love to maybe be provided with an opportunity to have something that shows that investment in game. Does this seem reasonable?

[VaykorKek]

1 hour ago, 12time said:

-snip-

Huh, never thought of this kind of a system. I like it! Nice job thinking outside of the box and coming up with a very fair idea that makes sense!

 

Kind of makes me think of how certain forum goers get invited to the design council for being exceptional

Edited October 14, 2016 by VaykorKek

[jfhsanseiIII]

On 10/13/2016 at 1:44 PM, Godzilla853 said:

Wait design council was made for founders only 

The design council numbers would be a nightmare as founders leave the game.  It makes sense that they let regularvplayers in as well.  What the criteria for it is beyond me.  

[LethalAffliction]

Being a founder, by definition, means a person who establishes an institution or settlement. I wish I could've purchased the higher packs as well, but I too was in the process of buying my first car and economically it didn't make sense. You may have spent some real money on the game throughout time, but if it wasn't for the founders buying packages during that specific time in the infancy of the game when DE needed financial aide then we might not be here discussing the matter and you wouldn't have been able to spend that money down the road.

If you missed the founder package but still buy things such as prime access, etc. then, by definition, you are a funder (a person who provides money or financial support for something) and quite possibly a stakeholder (a person with an interest or concern in something, especially a business). I do thank you for supporting DE and the game that I love, but there's a big difference between helping to establish a game on a gamble that it might still flop, and funding a game that's had time to mature and grow.

DE has the ability to rerelease the founder stuff, I know. But then, by definition, it's no longer a founder pack. The game is already established and thriving.

Edited October 14, 2016 by LethalAffliction

[Uottaframe]

Props to OP for creating a needed thread and not have it locked 5 minutes after it was posted.

As a non-founder player i have dreamt when i was still a newbie to have that shiny excalibro. My most played frame is infact excalibur and i have had fun times with him especially when his 4th was reworked (SCHWINGSCHWINGSCHWING).

I still think it should be released to the public but now i just gave up fighting this endless battle. I am still of the opinion though that founders are players who funded the game in its first months of life not only for the exclusive items but because they saw potential in the game. 

 

People then throw out reasons why it should not be released which are purely ethical (excluding the legal reasons obviously). Remember that Kant (an illuminist agnostic philosopher) said in his work "Critique of Practical Reason" that people are rewarded with paradise only if they do good for the sake of it, not to be rewarded. That is why founders should not care much about their primed exclusives.

 

I don't know how to use spoiler tags.

Edited October 14, 2016 by OzoneAle

[Hidari]

No.

Warframe's word right now means very little to me at the moment. The founder exclusivity is the last defense that is buffering me from playing the game or not. We played first, we were around for a special deal that helped support the game with the bonus of exclusivity. It does not belong to and should not be released to the general public. You have literally everything else and threads about founders exclusives have been an ongoing thing for years now. Let us enjoy our tiny corner of what claim we have in Warframe that we were around at the beginning to claim.

[Valiant]

10 hours ago, 12time said:

I have been playing the game since it was first released as open beta on steam. At the time with my cost of living and income that I had, it would have been a bit of a silly decision to spend that kind of money on any game really. I loved the game a lot, even that early on, with the little content it had, I saw the potential; but I was a somewhat casual player (maybe 3 or 4 hours a week).

Fast forward to current times. I have now in the past 3 years put easily over 400$ into this game. The odd prime pack and any time I ever hit that lovely 75% off plat' I would buy the biggest package. Could I go back in time and provided myself with the extra money, I would have absolutely invested in the games early development. Probably the biggest package. (I also worked in a Starbucks in London and provided Steve with coffee many times which I would like to think helped fuel the development of the game in some way haha)

To ask for them to make all of the founders stuff accessible to the generic player I think would be wrong. But maybe if a player meets certain prerequisites, like time played, mastery rank, real money investments into the game over said time played. Then maybe once the requirements are met they can message that player and provide them with an opportunity to purchase the in game founders items.

I just feel like I have invested a lot of time and a generous amount of money into the game and would love to maybe be provided with an opportunity to have something that shows that investment in game. Does this seem reasonable?

 

9 hours ago, VaykorKek said:

Huh, never thought of this kind of a system. I like it! Nice job thinking outside of the box and coming up with a very fair idea that makes sense

Right... But that doesn't have to be what the founders got. That also completely goes against what the title of 'founder' is as well. 

De have had multiple opportunities to have this sort of content (minus the recent login rewards and prime access exclusives, sort of) but people complained about missing out. De have now changed that so potential gear showing time/effort has dwindled and/or been negated.

Even further, bet if such a system existed people would still likely complain and refer to pay walls and whatnot. Think this is part of the problem - trying to please everyone and giving in. There needs to be a point where a simple 'no' is used, instead of appeasing or beating around the bush with indirect/vague comments trying to not hurt people's sensitive feelings and opinions. 

Edited October 14, 2016 by Naith

[Skaleek]

I'd be for it, but that's because I didn't buy it when i had the chance. If i had it, i think i'd be okay with it coming back, i dont begrudge other players having what I have, especially when it gives MR.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Skaleek

[Godzilla853]

9 hours ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

The design council numbers would be a nightmare as founders leave the game.  It makes sense that they let regularvplayers in as well.  What the criteria for it is beyond me.  

It's MR 5 and higher and you have to have good criticism I believe here is what the wiki says.                                                                      

Unlike most of the things listed here, access to the Design Council wasn't limited to the Founders Program; at the end of each month, the Development Team will invite up to 25 players to the Design Council via forum inbox messages. To be eligible for an invite, players must have a Mastery Rank of at least 5, no reports of Griefing or forum warning posts, and overall quality of forum contributions. This opportunity is available for players on all platforms.

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

2 hours ago, Hidari said:

Warframe's word right now means very little to me at the moment. The founder exclusivity is the last defense that is buffering me from playing the game or not.

Are you saying that the only and last thing that keeps you playing the game you founded is having those things exclusive? Exclusives are removed and you stop playing? 

Doesn't sound fun at all,or doesn't sound like you actually enjoy the game you founded. 

[MadHatHacker]

14 hours ago, LethalAffliction said:

Especially since it's covered in either the EULA or that other thing (one or the other) that all digital property is the property of DE. You can't sell accounts or sue since it's not your property.

But yeah. It's shady and leaves a sour taste in your mouth if it does happen but nothing anyone can do.

Bingo. 

[Yzjdriel]

This is a question for the Founders, since you're the only people who actually HAVE Excalibur Prime.

• How does he play?  Is the difference between him and base Excalibur noticeable?
• Do you use the default cosmetics, or do you play him with a different skin/alternate helmet?
• What kind of color scheme do you use with said cosmetics?  What kind of an aesthetic are you going for when you use him?

 

I'm genuinely curious, since I don't actually see too many people using him in-game.

As an aside, I'm looking forward to seeing an Excalibur Prime wearing the Umbra scarf once Umbra Excalibur drops.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Yzjdriel

[AngryBAsian]

Use him like you would use excal...? 

I mean you dont drastically change your playatyle from nova to nova prime and etc

Edited October 14, 2016 by AngryBAsian

[Yzjdriel]

7 minutes ago, AngryBAsian said:

Use him like you would use excal...? 

I mean you dont drastically change your playatyle from nova to nova prime and etc

No, I get that.  But an increase in armor can and does change the playstyle you use when using different frame (e.g., you'd charge into melee with a rhino, but probably not with a mirage).

[Sir_Alex_Traffo]

21 minutes ago, Yzjdriel said:

Excellent!  I have your attention.

Now then.

This is a question for the Founders, since you're the only people who actually HAVE Excalibur Prime.

• How does he play?  Is the difference between him and base Excalibur noticeable?
• Do you use the default cosmetics, or do you play him with a different skin/alternate helmet?
• What kind of color scheme do you use with said cosmetics?  What kind of an aesthetic are you going for when you use him?

He plays exactly the same as the normal Excalibur, the only difference is causing some chat messages like "OMG EXCALIBUR PRIME" "WTF EXCALIBRO PRIME SO JELLY" "HOW DO I GET IT???" and stuff like that; those cases are the crucial time when a difference between  a**hole founders and nice founders is set in non-founders minds.

Gameplay wise, the buffed stats don't affect it at all, or at least not in an active way.

As for the other 2 questions, here's mine:

Edited October 14, 2016 by siralextraffo

[Yzjdriel]

5 minutes ago, siralextraffo said:

-snip-

Shiny.  Thanks for the pic!