give us infinite ammo

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

I don't think so. I thought the idea behind bullet-hose weapons was to suppress enemies but the catch is they eventually have to reload or run out of ammo. Same goes for Simulor + Mirage, if they don't have to worry about ammo then why do they have to be more discerning with their shots? Nothing is stopping them from just hiding out for a bit and reloading their weapon. And that would kill the flow of the game as well.

I don;t have an end-game viable Amprex but I know Ignis with Vile Acceleration totally gobbles ammo but that's what keeps it in check.

Then go make one. The Amprex is basically the poster-child for why this change is needed.

Being able to chose going full bullet hose or to burst fire would just add more variety, and the longer reloads would would still penalize them for not playing well.

I am sure people in a team with a Mirage+Simulor would like to have a little break in the flow so that they could get some shots in.

[Lyravain]

On 22/10/2016 at 1:03 AM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I can just stop and use a pie and have full ammo anyway. This would actually make them less OP since you would be adjusting their reloads times to make up for the infinite ammo.

reported

So... you want to change a system that works, and has worked, fine for so long... for no apparent reason? Since, as you stated, you can just use a pie and have full ammo anyway, meaning you don't actually have a real problem with the current system. This is no 'bug' or 'issue' or 'problem' that needs fixing. This is just your personal opinion which got refuted many times over.

Also, reporting someone for saying that something is stupid? Boy, howdy, I can't wait until you get out and see the real world.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Then go make one. The Amprex is basically the poster-child for why this change is needed.

Being able to chose going full bullet hose or to burst fire would just add more variety, and the longer reloads would would still penalize them for not playing well.

I am sure people in a team with a Mirage+Simulor would like to have a little break in the flow so that they could get some shots in.

If i have infinite ammo for my primary why would i need a secondary or a melee?

[Tricky5hift]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Being able to chose going full bullet hose or to burst fire would just add more variety, and the longer reloads would would still penalize them for not playing well.

I am sure people in a team with a Mirage+Simulor would like to have a little break in the flow so that they could get some shots in.

You can already do that but the reload and limited ammo is what keeps you in check.

The whole idea behind the Mirage+Simulor "strat" is to completely annihilate everything without breaking a sweat. However, when the ammo dries up they have to be more careful.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Try not running out of ammo. Isn't that a challenge?

No, because all I have to do is switch to a tonkor instead of running with an Angstrum, even if I find the Angstrum far more fun.

 

3 minutes ago, NobleParadox96 said:

giving infinite ammo... not sure how I would feel about this.

 

I mean you can always bring a melee weapon whenever you're out of ammo but this is not the case. To me it is more fun to have an ammo limit because this causes you to change tactics like either going in melee (that is, if you bring a melee weapon with you) or retreat and recover so you can fight back. I mean if infinite ammo were to happen then I'd probably would barely touch any melee weapons at all.

You could always just make the super-weapons regen/reload ammo behind the scenes and increase default swap speeds. That way you could run around with an Amprex, nuke a level, run out of ammo, then have to swap to a secondary/melee weapon until the Amprex cools down from it's overheating (regening ammo to full).

Because as it stands now, I can do an entire level without swapping off of my primary weapon anyway.

[Camelslayer]

I remember when the Synoid Gammacor had near-infinite ammo because it could fire for a solid minute before needing to reload with its already ridiculous damage. "Broken" doesn't even begin to describe it.

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

No, because all I have to do is switch to a tonkor instead of running with an Angstrum, even if I find the Angstrum far more fun.

 

You could always just make the super-weapons regen/reload ammo behind the scenes and increase default swap speeds. That way you could run around with an Amprex, nuke a level, run out of ammo, then have to swap to a secondary/melee weapon until the Amprex cools down from it's overheating (regening ammo to full).

Because as it stands now, I can do an entire level without swapping off of my primary weapon anyway.

Then why do you need infinite ammo???

[Krion112]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I have ZERO ammo problems.

/Thread

You can't have zero problems with ammo and be demanding it be removed. In fact, I don't believe you've had an argument at all as to why this should be a thing. You've chased your tail around in circles, and now this all just looks so ridiculous.

If you have a reason, clarify, right here, in response, because I have no idea your points for arguing because, as far as I can tell, you can't make Ammo Restores a factor because they don't exist for balance's sake, so therefore my reasoning would lead me to believe that you have to have an issue with ammo management if you want a change to the system like this.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Meanwhile, I sold one of the most fun secondaries in the game, imo, the angstrum, simply because it could not keep up in the ammo department.

Yeah, it seems to me more like you just don't like ammo management, especially if you're getting rid of weapons just because they have difficult ammo management.

I just can't come to any other conclusion. I don't have a problem, other players here don't have a problem, and even you just claimed you don't have a problem, so why is this even still an argument?

 

4 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

I think the key thing is the differentiation between gameplay, and progression.

I was referring to both. The high demand for fast-paced game-play on top of the demand for fast progression are both issues in the game. Besides, I feel like there's a relation there, that players who like fast game-play also like fast progression. But, it must be like a combination thing, because I know I can enjoy playing fast-paced without wanting to progress fast.

Either way, demanding more fast-paced game-play when Warframe is a multi-faceted game is only going to amplify certain issues we already regularly complain about.

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I want more (in-game) speed and more challenge.

At the expense of everyone who enjoys Warframe for a different reason than you, it appears.

 

9 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I think focusing on high-speed/fast-paced combat is what will make WF be the best that it can be.

I believe this will ruin the game. We're not all here because we all enjoy fast-paced, high-speed combat. We're all still here because Warframe presents a multitude of options for different kinds of game-play. We don't all have to play the same.

Take that away, and ironically, Warframe becomes just another shooter. I've played high aggression shooters before, they're dime-a-dozen. I haven't played many where I can play all 5 roles with all the variations of those roles being playable in a single game.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

If i have infinite ammo for my primary why would i need a secondary or a melee?

see:

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

No, because all I have to do is switch to a tonkor instead of running with an Angstrum, even if I find the Angstrum far more fun.

 

You could always just make the super-weapons regen/reload ammo behind the scenes and increase default swap speeds. That way you could run around with an Amprex, nuke a level, run out of ammo, then have to swap to a secondary/melee weapon until the Amprex cools down from it's overheating (regening ammo to full).

Because as it stands now, I can do an entire level without swapping off of my primary weapon anyway.

-----------------------------------

1 minute ago, Tricky5hift said:

Then why do you need infinite ammo???

Because I want to be able to use more than the Tigris P., Tonkor, Simulor, etc.  Because I don't want to sell items like the Amprex, Kohm,Angstrum, etc. just because they are no longer viable because of ammo issues. 

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Because I want to be able to use more than the Tigris P., Tonkor, Simulor, etc.  Because I don't want to sell items like the Amprex, Kohm,Angstrum, etc. just because they are no longer viable because of ammo issues. 

Nothing is stopping you from not being able to use them, you literally just said so in your previous post.

Having limited ammo is what keeps you from just using one weapon anyways.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, Krion112 said:

You can't have zero problems with ammo and be demanding it be removed. In fact, I don't believe you've had an argument at all as to why this should be a thing. You've chased your tail around in circles, and now this all just looks so ridiculous.

Read the thread. I have zero ammo issue because I just don't use fun weapons because they are ammo inefficient. If you want everyone to use then mirage+simulor and nothing else then that is on you, but that doesn't make this thread any less important.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

see

Exactly, Its why we dont have Infinite ammo and are forced to use pies. Its supposed to be a inconvince. And makes u switch to a melee or a secondary. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Nothing is stopping you from not being able to use them, you literally just said so in your previous post.

Having limited ammo is what keeps you from just using one weapon anyways.

 

1 minute ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

Exactly, Its why we dont have Infinite ammo and are forced to use pies. Its supposed to be a inconvince. And makes u switch to a melee or a secondary. 

In theory, maybe. In practice, however, it just means no one will use an ammo inefficient weapon. Instead, people will just move on. Why do you think the angstrum and penta fell out of use in favor of the tonkor?

Seriously, go into a survival mission with only an Amprex and see how long it lasts.

Edited October 23, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Tricky5hift]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Seriously, go into a survival mission with only an Amprex and see how long it lasts.

In theory, maybe. In practice, however, it just means no one will use an ammo inefficient weapon. Instead, people will just move on. Why do you think the angstrum and penta fell out of use in favor of the tonkor?

Dude, I literally just said the reason why we have limited ammo is to prevent us from just using one weapon. ESPECIALLY if the weapon isn't ammo efficient.

Its common sense.

Look at it this way, you wouldn't run a mission with just a RPG with 4 ammo.

You'd run a mission with an RPG with 4 ammo and maybe a pistol with more ammo. Because after you run out for the RPG, you're not screwed because you've got a pistol as a backup.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Tricky5hift

[VampirePirate]

How about the Trinity treatment?

Make a warframe with one of its powers being able to grant full ammo restore with the push of a button!   His name would be Ammo.

Heck, just remove Mesa's number 2 with this power!

All player's need to do is stand within range and BOOM!  Unlimited ammo!

Can't take this post seriously?   Can't take this thread seriously.

Running out of ammo is rarely a problem.  Especially with ammo restores, vacuum, and don't forget the ability to go pick up your ammo when you need it.

Only one conclusion comes to mind.  Laziness.

Edited October 23, 2016 by VampirePirate

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

 

In theory, maybe. In practice, however, it just means no one will use an ammo inefficient weapon. Instead, people will just move on. Why do you think the angstrum and penta fell out of use in favor of the tonkor?

Seriously, go into a survival mission with only an Amprex and see how long it lasts.

That depends on your frame and skill, I  do just fine 2 hours in with ammo mutations and ammo pies. 

[Krion112]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Because I want to be able to use more than the Tigris P., Tonkor, Simulor, etc.  Because I don't want to sell items like the Amprex, Kohm,Angstrum, etc. just because they are no longer viable because of ammo issues. 

You're limiting yourself precisely to the weapons that cater your play-style. Why are you demanding other weapons that cater to other people's play-styles be changed so they expressly cater to yours?

They're no longer viable to you, because of the way you play, and you're trying to project that as an issue that has to be a resolved. No, this is your problem, not the game's. You don't like using those weapons because they require ammo management, which makes it harder to use them for your play-style.

I see no issue. You're just being selfish.

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I have zero ammo issue because I just don't use fun weapons because they are ammo inefficient. If you want everyone to use then mirage+simulor and nothing else then that is on you, but that doesn't make this thread any less important.

Already not everyone uses Mirage+Simulor, because not everyone likes to play like that. It seems more like you want everyone to play like that, because that's how it will be. With no ammo management at all, the only weapons that will see use are the ones with the highest DPS.

We'll see more Mirage+Simulor, Tonkor, and the like. Removing ammo doesn't solve anything.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

2 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Dude, I literally just said the reason why we have limited ammo is to prevent us from just using one weapon. ESPECIALLY if the weapon isn't ammo efficient.

Its common sense.

And I just said, that is not true in practice. Ammo inefficiency stopped me from using the Angstrum, like ever, not just for short periods in-mission. Instead, I just use the Tonkor, as in, for the entire mission without ever changing to a secondary/melee weapon.

[Rhekemi]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I have ZERO ammo problems. I already said this. Why? Because ammo inefficient weapons get tossed on the shelf permanently or scrapped entirely.

My secondary that I use constantly is the Atomos. It is ridiculously ammo efficient, and I don't run out of ammo with it. Meanwhile, I sold one of the most fun secondaries in the game, imo, the angstrum, simply because it could not keep up in the ammo department. As such, you saying, "I have no ammo issues," is not a valid excuse. I know all the workarounds too, but that doesn't address the core issue.

Yes, and no. Bullet hose weapons could actually be used as the bullet hoses they were meant to be, but mirages with simulors would have to be more discerning with where their shots.

Try making an end-game viable Amprex and running with that for awhile.

See, mate, this is the problem.

The core issue isn't bad design. It isn't a mistake. It doesn't need a change, because the workarounds exist.

You simply do not want to use them.

You want, instead, for a complete ammo rework (unlimited ammo, either on all weapons or just on super-weapons) to suit your wishes. 

The problem with adding unlimited ammo to a few weapons is it just circles back to adding it to all weapons. (See Universal Vacuum.)

This is why the majority opinion holds a lot of weight. The majority of us do use the workarounds, and even if we don't and feel exactly as you do, we aren't asking for a game-wide change that will affect everyone who does use the workarounds, the system, efficiently.

Until such a time as the workarounds are obsolete (like DE, eventually, overhauling or removing the modding system as we know it), the workarounds remain valid.

Solutions to the problem you see already exists. You refuse to use them.

This is why I refuse to call it a problem. Minor annoyance? An issue? Yes. Problem? No, sir.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Tricky5hift]

Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

And I just said, that is not true in practice. Ammo inefficiency stopped me from using the Angstrum, like ever, not just for short periods in-mission. Instead, I just use the Tonkor, as in, for the entire mission without ever changing to a secondary/melee weapon.

Well then thats an issue related balance with the Tonkor being efficient and incredibly powerful.

[UltimateSpinDash]

4 minutes ago, VampirePirate said:

How about the Trinity treatment?

Make a warframe with one of its powers being able to grant full ammo restore with the push of a button!   His name would be Ammo.

Heck, just remove Mesa's number 2 with this power!

All player's need to do is stand within range and BOOM!  Unlimited ammo!

Can't take this post seriously?   Can't take this thread seriously.

Running out of ammo is rarely a problem.  Especially with ammo restores, vacuum, and don't forget the ability to go pick up your ammo when you need it.

Only one conclusion comes to mind.  Laziness.

Please, if anything replace Mesa's first power. Her second is great.

[Tricky5hift]

4 minutes ago, VampirePirate said:

Heck, just remove Mesa's number 2 with this power!

Nah dude Mesa's number 2 is actually pretty nice, change Mesa's 1.

[VampirePirate]

1 minute ago, UltimateSpinDash said:

Please, if anything replace Mesa's first power. Her second is great.

 

1 minute ago, Tricky5hift said:

Nah dude Mesa's number 2 is actually pretty nice, change Mesa's 1.

okay, okay... replace the number 1 instead.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, Krion112 said:

because they require ammo management

They don't require ammo management though. Things like the soma require ammo management. These things just run out of ammo in like 30 seconds and ammo doesn't come close to dealing with it.

2 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

Already not everyone uses Mirage+Simulor, because not everyone likes to play like that.

No, you are the one who is arguing that they should, and you don't even realize it.

 

1 minute ago, Tricky5hift said:

Well then thats an issue related balance with the Tonkor being efficient and incredibly powerful.

It's not limited to the Tonkor. I am just using the Tonkor as an example because it is comparable to the Angstrum. I could have just as easily compared the Kohm to the Tigris series, or used any other number of examples.

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

Ammo mutation mods? Boom. Infinite ammo. Scavenger auras? Even more ammo. Ammo restores? Even more ammo. You don't need infinite ammo.

Edited October 23, 2016 by (XB1)AntiCaesar
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