[TWW] Sorties Changes/Additions Feedback

[RoniLumen]

The problem with sorties is the RNG factor, there is no risk/reward, progression or decision making.
I really liked the system of the Index arena, that there is investment, risk and "trading".
Sorties should be something other than just a daily roll of dice.
 

[greymaniac]

I love the recent additions of Kuva Fortress and Lua to the sortie mission pool. Lua tiles are powerful and todays spy was something different for a change. Kuva fortress sees some use this way as well, and its darker mood including its differently armed enemies are always welcome. 

[Irish_Red_Dragon]

Ok, even after hearing stories far worse than mine, I've gotten utterly frustrated with this new drop pool. Before this week I had no credits(thanks Baro) and a lot of endo, so the 4 endo drops were just rubbing it in my face, but were useful later on. This week I have credits to burn and have gotten 2 greater lenses, 2 normal lenses, and 3x nitian extract. That means for 5 days, as an end game player, I have done the sorties for essentially 10k credits for the greaters(still ridiculous they can't be traded), MAYBE 20 plat if I'm lucky and feel like fighting trade chat, and nothing to do with nitian extract.

I have an idea for a sortie rework:

Sitting here talking to my coworkers who play with me for hours a day, we talked about what changes we have enjoyed and what changes have frustrated us.

The new relic system allowing a lean towards an item and the new endo system simplifying the modding values are the best changes made when it comes to systematic differences.

FIRST, giving everyone the same reward while trying to not give someone the same thing in a row isn't going to work well, even in theory. Therefore the first change needs to augment the drop chance to reflect individual's recent drop list, while still random.

SECOND, I think that a form of sortie currency given alongside normal sortie rewards, similar to void traces, maybe with a back story as to who's paying you. Then add a kiosk, or maybe a new vendor, that allows you to purchase something like the dragon keys to equip and increase the chance per item you get a from a sortie by 10%. These would have negative effects in the same manner depending on the item wanted. The effect would also stack depending on how many gear slots it's equipped in, and increase your chance up to 80%.

This would give a high risk high reward scenario not only to detriment you with a debuff but also with removing useful gear to do so.

Myself and plenty of other heavy players are in need of specific items to round out our collections, and although not getting them daily is understandable, I have overall, after so many sorties, gotten 2 gold drops in the entirety of my 1500hrs of play. Allowing us to curtail our drops occasionally to better the chances of the forma I'm in dire need of, the lenses/nitian the newer guys need, the catalyst/reactor to slap on the frames and weapons I don't use much to make them usable, or when we endo to finish out those primed mods that are being a pain. Legendary cores should not be included in the key list, this should still be an extremely rare random drop chance.

I personally NEED something to work towards, even if it's not a guarantee. Having the ability to put forth effort or save in order to get what I NEED is something we are all for. The added challenge is also normally a welcome change.

As it stands I really look at the sortie every day, and if it looks even slightly annoying I think good and hard on whether I feel like the possibility of frustration AGAIN that day.

Last note: I personally think that nitian extract has no place in the sortie unless they add an item that can be built regularly with it. Maybe convert the exilus adapter from needing forma to needing something like 6-10 nitian extract.

Edited December 12, 2016 by DC010
forgot a note about legendary cores and last note on nitian

[(PSN)BY-51]

I just completed a sortie. Took me about 30 minutes to an hour but it's done. Feeling proud of myself, I'm looking for my reward... then I see it. Exilus adapter... BLUEPRINT. Why on earth is this considered a reward? You need two of the also considered "gold tier rewards" to make it. You're waiting at least two days (assuming they come prebuilt , which probably not...) to craft this thing. 3 days to get the reward. If not pre-built forma, 4 days.

That's like saying to someone who took gold at the Olympics. "Here's your gold medal... blueprint. Foundries right over there... win 2 more races and I'll give you two gold bars to craft that blueprint!"

Exilus adapter blueprint is not a reward.

Exilus adapter could be. 

[rngd444]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)BY-51 said:

Exilus adapter blueprint is not a reward.

Exilus adapter could be. 

Yeah, it was a fully-built one before the recent changes (despite what they stated by themselves). It really amazes me how they have all these glorious feedback threads, yet the pretty much unified opinions (on this one, which is more like reporting an oversight than anything, and stuff like Nitain) seem to take ages to process.

[(PSN)BY-51]

5 hours ago, rngd444 said:

Yeah, it was a fully-built one before the recent changes (despite what they stated by themselves). It really amazes me how they have all these glorious feedback threads, yet the pretty much unified opinions (on this one, which is more like reporting an oversight than anything, and stuff like Nitain) seem to take ages to process.

I understand DE has to make money but I'm not happy.

My hour of sortie was a total waste. 

I will not craft those Exilus adapter bps. Forma is too precious to waste two on them. 

If I could trade my sortie reward for another reward even endo I would but I can't. Not happy.

[Hans.Yulian]

This is quite silly, i have to say about the new reward system, lets check this:
 

Common Reward:
2k endo -> worth quite like equivalent of 20p? because 40k endo for legendary mod will make the price go up like 400p

Riven mod -> worth at least 60p for veiled? if you open and get good one, lucky you!

 

average: can we say, 40p?

 

Uncommon Reward:

4k endo -> worth like equivalent of 40p?

Greater Lense -> market is 40p, so will be lower than 40p.

lense -> technically less than 10p.

3 nintain -> trash, as someone who already end-game and have 100+ nintain, this is a troll

 

average: can we say, 30p?

 

The worst one:

Rare Reward:

Forma, Exilus, Potato, all worth only 20p

 

The best one:

Legendary Core: no need to ask, but dont really dream to get it.

 

So, i prefer common reward over rare and uncommon, ironically, 3 days in a row i got uncommon reward which is zenurik lense and already useless for me. Can we please somehow adjust the reward? remove nintain, which is non-sense. If people who finished TWW only have average of 8 nintain, it's because they dont need anymore and dont bother to do mission, not because of they short of nintain. Have you imagine that got player so happy when get 2k endo rather than lenses and especially, 3 nintain? (=_=" )

[(PSN)BY-51]

49 minutes ago, Hans.Yulian said:

This is quite silly, i have to say about the new reward system, lets check this:
 

Common Reward:
2k endo -> worth quite like equivalent of 20p? because 40k endo for legendary mod will make the price go up like 400p

Riven mod -> worth at least 60p for veiled? if you open and get good one, lucky you!

 

average: can we say, 40p?

 

Uncommon Reward:

4k endo -> worth like equivalent of 40p?

Greater Lense -> market is 40p, so will be lower than 40p.

lense -> technically less than 10p.

3 nintain -> trash, as someone who already end-game and have 100+ nintain, this is a troll

 

average: can we say, 30p?

 

The worst one:

Rare Reward:

Forma, Exilus, Potato, all worth only 20p

 

The best one:

Legendary Core: no need to ask, but dont really dream to get it.

 

So, i prefer common reward over rare and uncommon, ironically, 3 days in a row i got uncommon reward which is zenurik lense and already useless for me. Can we please somehow adjust the reward? remove nintain, which is non-sense. If people who finished TWW only have average of 8 nintain, it's because they dont need anymore and dont bother to do mission, not because of they short of nintain. Have you imagine that got player so happy when get 2k endo rather than lenses and especially, 3 nintain? (=_=" )

Could we get an option to reroll the sortie reward if we do the sortie again? Or trade it for a lesser or equal value reward?

[Liolean]

i wish your paycheck was rng-based, getting something between nothing and S#&$ isnt @(*()$ fun!

[Liolean]

since you are in love with rng and dont want to get rid of it, at least give us guaranteed milestone rewards for completing x amount of sorties. i dont mind getting S#&$ every single time im doing this crap if im working towards something i know i will get.

[(PSN)BY-51]

On Friday, November 11, 2016 at 10:08 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

 

---

So what do you think after playing through these changes? We want to know! Post your thoughts below and please be constructive in your comments. 

If you have bugs to report please use the Bug Report Megathread. Thank you!

---

The War Within: 19.1.0 Ash Revisited Sortie Reward Changes:

Previously:

  Reveal hidden contents

• Endo (2K) 
• Endo (4K) 

  Reveal hidden contents

• Riven Mod

• Lens/Greater Lenses
• Orokin Reactor/Catalyst Blueprint
• Exilus Adaptor Blueprint
• Legendary Core

New Sortie Rewards:

  Hide contents

  Reveal hidden contents

• Riven Mod 

• Endo (4K) 
• Endo (2K) (radically lowered drop chance and spread across new additions) 
• 3 Day Booster 
• Lens/Greater Lens
• 3 Nitain
• Forma
• Orokin Reactor/Catalyst Blueprint
• Exilus Adaptor Blueprint
• Legendary Core

Please note regarding these changes that we took the large 2000 Endo chances and chopped/reassigned to give a more diverse set of options to have variety of other rewards. We are aiming to make the full drop table more broadly appealing. When The War Within launched, we added Rivens to Sorties as a common drop to be the new, interesting, and unique evergreen goal for players in Sorties.  Rivens remain common with these changes as we see them as the ultimate goal for Sorties. Regarding Nitain specifically, the majority of our recently active players have less than 9 Nitain in their accounts and there is considerable interest in some new ways to acquire, so we are trying out Sorties as an option. A next step here is being considered to add a completely new Ayatan in the place of 2K Endo to give collectors and Endo hunters something to look forward to. 

Just listing my rewards here for the week:

Riven (vulklok)

2k

2k

Forma

Exilus adapter

2k

Riven mods are so common. 

Am I a victim of rngenecide? Yeah but I completed sorties. And I'm not rewarded for it. 

Make sortie relics: ayatan relics.

All sortie rewards but where you can improve your chance for a higher one. Or keep it low as a group. People should be reward for time/effort spent in game.

Edited December 16, 2016 by (PS4)BY-51
Comment didn't appear or was deleted.

[(PSN)Crazy_Mr_J]

Hi DE team,

I've some feedbacks to do about the sorties.

I'm MR 23 since TWW release, and i'm always sad to see what i have each days in sorties. 6 days (so all the days since TWW on PS4), and 6 times of Endos (2000, 4000, 2000, 2000, 4000 and 2000)

I'm... just... tired... to see... that...

I doing sorties for difficult but i'm just so tired to see how we can loot something in sorties list. Since TWW, in one of this daily sorties, when i've doing Lua spy, i've only wins 2000 Endos, and the next day, with more easy missions, wins 4000 Endos... no comment.

So, i've some ideas about this sorties system for allow to high MR players to have real reasons to doing sorties (we've actual no reasons to doing this sorties due to less chances to have good things at the end, but this sorties are for us and i think it's sad to see that because i love sorties)

My suggestions :

1) if we have endos in 1 sortie, the next sortie we dont have endos (high MR players don't need endos)

2) if, in a daily sortie, we have one of the most hard missions (like assassinations or for example Lua Spy), reduced the chance to have endo and increased the chance to have other things (maybe removed 2000 endos too for this daily mission)

3) changed endos in sorties reward by a special ayatan sculpture (you have a good idea about that)

I've seeing 2 problems with 2 sorties missions :

Spoiler

In the sortie Kuva Fortress Defense, the spy agent going each time in poison or fire of the environment and stays in this dangerous environment. Very stupid AI lol

Please, corrected the Lua Spy bugs about loading who kick of the Lua Spy :/

Edited December 16, 2016 by (PS4)Crazy_Mr_J

[Liolean]

it's like... something's wrong with the game when your reaction on getting a rare reward from somewhat endgame content is "WHAT THE F*** IS THIS CRAP?!" 

[B_O_G_D_A_N]

It's been a few weeks since the drop change. I have gotten riven mods a grand total of 2 times. 90% of the time? Nitain, Lens, 2k endo. I got an orokin catalyst once. That reward table is dreadful. Nitain should be banned from there. In the past I didn't like getting 2k endo, it sucked. Is this some twisted kind of way to make us feel good about getting 2k endo as a reward and not *@##$ about it? Making us *@##$ about something as useless as nitain? >_> Please, do SOMETHING about sorties.

Side note: Those invasion weapon parts, man I love the drop rate there too.

[SHADOW.XIII]

Please lower lens drop rate!

Last 5 sorties I had 4-5 lens reward. Really annoying.

Cannot we have like an overall lens drop rate lowered AND introduce additional rate after it for what lens it would be?
ie. overall 5+% chance that sortie reward would be a lens, then an other check: 15% it will be a normal lens (75% total chance for a normal lens), 5% it will be a greater lens (25% total chance for a greater lens)

And the introduced mechanic of weighting the rewards would be on both (ie. if my previous sortie reward was lens, next one is less likely to get it, or if my previous lens was Zenurik, next one is less likely to be Zenurik)

 

 

EDIT: more lenses today, this is ridiculous 

Edited December 18, 2016 by SHADOW.XIII
more lenses today :(

[Mehlahphuse]

7 hours ago, SHADOW.XIII said:

Please lower lens drop rate!

Last 5 sorties I had 4-5 lens reward. Really annoying.

Cannot we have like an overall lens drop rate lowered AND introduce additional rate after it for what lens it would be?
ie. overall 5+% chance that sortie reward would be a lens, then an other check: 15% it will be a normal lens (75% total chance for a normal lens), 5% it will be a greater lens (25% total chance for a greater lens)

And the introduced mechanic of weighting the rewards would be on both (ie. if my previous sortie reward was lens, next one is less likely to get it, or if my previous lens was Zenurik, next one is less likely to be Zenurik)

 

 

EDIT: more lenses today, this is ridiculous 

I honestly feel your pain with the lense drop rate. I've gotten more lenses since War Within than Endo in the past. And half the time it is Unairu lenses. I really feel the reward system needs another re-work or at the very least a more balanced RNG for these items.

[Mehlahphuse]

You know, I've been thinking. Outside of my complaints for the drop rate of lenses as part of the sortie rewards (and the fact that Riven mods are sortie rewards only but that is likely a topic for a different sub forum) I feel the rewards could be refined just a tad more than they are.

First, why are there only 2 common drops, 4 uncommon, and 4 rare drops for the rewards? It feels backwards especially when you look at relics which have 3 common, 2 uncommon, and 1 rare (I'm excluding the legendary core drop as it makes sense for there to be only 1 legendary reward drop). If anything it should look somewhere along the lines of maybe... I dunno... 4 common, 3 uncommon, and 3 rare (or something close to those lines).

Now lets look at the reward options...

Now I don't have problem with all the rewards that are there (outside of maybe Riven mods but again tis a topic of a separate discussion). But I do feel it could still use a bit of a revision. This isn't a perfect list of suggestions (I don't think one does exist to be fair as the game keeps changing thus player wants and needs change with it) but here's an idea:

 

• What you have for commons can remain the same though I say drop the normal focus lens to a common drop. The reason I suggest this is cause you need 4 to upgrade to a greater so it makes sense for it to be the more common of the two since you have both as a reward option already.
• Swap the x3 nitain for... 500 oxium (or more). I make this suggestion cause other than vauban prime you don't really need much nitain and it is more efficient to get it from alerts (unless you've gone and changed how often nitain alerts pop up. I don't play as much during the day anymore and honestly haven't needed nitain in a while so I hadn't noticed). And as for why oxium is due to the fact that there are a lot more items that require a lot of oxium and it isn't an easy resource to get outside of corpus farming which is dull and tedious. Also those oxium alerts rarely crop up (again, as far as I have noticed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
• Change the blueprint rewards for exilus adapter and for both orokin reactor and catalyst into fully built items. They are rare as it is and having them as blueprints rather than fully built items I feel cheapens the reward for the tier they are listed in (and I know I'm not the only one to suggest this).
• Remove forma as a reward. Forma is so common through relics that it isn't worth being there at all, let alone being a "rare" reward. Heck, I haven't finished crafting all those forma blueprints after the great forma flood of the vauban prime release. Dark days indeed. As for what to replace it with... that I don't know off the top of my head at this time. Maybe a rotating rare weapon blueprint like you used to do before. That would be nice.

 

the only other thing I could suggest is perhaps fixing the RNG for the rewards. Maybe instead of having a fixed percentage for each individual rewards maybe see if you can program it to roll twice for the rewards. What I mean by that is first the game rolls once for what rarity of reward players get and once that is calculated it rolls a second time for that rarity table (unless it rolls legendary in which case it only rolls once). Tis just a suggestion but since I'm not game designer or programmer I'm not sure how efficiently that sort of RNG roll would work.

That's all I gotta say for now. Well, cept maybe to not have Riven mods be sortie exclusive. Riven mods are already RNG enough with how randomized they are for weapons and stats. Last thing we need is to limit how much of them exist in-game due to a small number of people having good enough luck to get one even though they are supposed to be common.

Seriously, please work on the RNG for the rewards. That is something that needs a serious look through and pre-player testing.

[Angus_JTV]

RNG really hate me. In the last 4 days i got only endo from sorties. 4 times in a row. The last useful reward was an Unairu Greater Lens 5 days ago, after a long long list of Endo again. Riven Mods? Are still in the game? LOL

I remember last Devstream where Sheldon sais they will  release a fix for this. I think the fix is not there anymore for some reason.

Edited December 18, 2016 by -CM-Angus

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

On 12/11/2016 at 0:08 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

*Snip*

Don't hurt us anymore DE 😆

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[SHADOW.XIII]

On 12/18/2016 at 4:16 AM, Mehlahphuse said:

I honestly feel your pain with the lense drop rate. I've gotten more lenses since War Within than Endo in the past. And half the time it is Unairu lenses. I really feel the reward system needs another re-work or at the very least a more balanced RNG for these items.

Another day another salt

Last 5 sorties I had 4-5 lens reward. Really annoying.

Last 6 sorties I had 5-6 lens reward. Even more annoying.
So far new rewards are working really hard making me stop playing.
Going to raise it via support, this so called RNG here must be looked at asap!

Edited December 19, 2016 by SHADOW.XIII

[(XBOX)JestersShade]

Hi everyone.

New sorties reward system :

* Pros :

- Nezha moved to the dojo

- weapon parts in invasions (which is just a workaround the lack of real rotation system)

* Cons :

- endo not droping enough!

- every reward can happen every day!

 

I used to play the sortie every day for endo (except the first 10-15 days of a new season until I get a lot of parts that could be checked) : since the release of the new system, I got some riven mods (which is good for now ... until I get my 15th), some lenses (which is average for me who have enough, with frames + weapons for each school), some nitain (seriously ???), a forma (nice but can get in fissures) and 2k endo ... only once!

I know some could say that endo can be found in lot of places, but definitely not this amount everyday, for the play time of a sortie (20 minutes to 1h depending on the missions)... and hearing DE saying they added some mechanism to forbid to have endo too frequently is bad: I know that a majority only play Mirage / Symulor / Sonicor but some others are actually playing the game by putting formas, playing a lot of weapons and mods and need endo ... a lot!

So now, I will keep on doing it every day to have a better view but I'm really wondering if it's worth doing it...

If the reward system is not meant to change by having less reward dilution, a token system would be needed if you don't want veteran players to get too bored...

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)JestersShade

[(PSN)Cyotis]

I have gotten an Unairu Lens for the past 4 days on PS4. IF this is supposed to be the high level content that keeps players coming back to try new builds on old weapons than this is awful. I would really like a token system so I can buy a Riven for the weapon or type of weapon I want. If you are worried that some weapons will be used more, like the Weak disposition weapons, then perhaps remove Rivens for them entirely. You know what weapons need these mods and which weapons don't. This is frustrating. I love Warframe.

Other than Rivens, I love the update. Tilesets look awesome, I enjoy the new challenging and complicated enemies. Ash rework is amazing! Kuva fortress looks great! I can't wait to see what new places your art team developed next. Your art team is very talented. I like the lighting effects alot. The infested ships look sweet! Kuva missions are fun (I do wish there was a minimum distance the Kuva can spawn in at. Sometimes we only have seconds to respond. Seems a little cheap.) Keep up the good work over all!

 

Thankfully,

Cyotis

Edited December 19, 2016 by (PS4)Cyotis

[Liolean]

i'm @(*()$ depressed, i'm ragequitting this S#&$... doing bullS#&$ rescue within 50 seconds? getting 2k endo from it? no response from de on the problem with THE MOST $&*&*#(%& CONTENT THAT TAKES 1 HOUR TO COMPLETE?! @(*()$ fix your S#&$ already or at least tell us what are you #@*&$@s planning to do with it, if anything at all. for how long should i stay away from your cancerous reward pool and rng to not lose my mind? this is not fun, not rewarding and at this point not even healthy. you are scaring away people, that cheesy grindfest of a game is infuriating and should be changed ASAP.

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

7 hours ago, Liolean said:

i'm @(*()$ depressed, i'm ragequitting this S#&$... doing bullS#&$ rescue within 50 seconds? getting 2k endo from it? no response from de on the problem with THE MOST $&*&*#(%& CONTENT THAT TAKES 1 HOUR TO COMPLETE?! @(*()$ fix your S#&$ already or at least tell us what are you #@*&$@s planning to do with it, if anything at all. for how long should i stay away from your cancerous reward pool and rng to not lose my mind? this is not fun, not rewarding and at this point not even healthy. you are scaring away people, that cheesy grindfest of a game is infuriating and should be changed ASAP.

I'm with him on this. I've done every sortie so far and have not one riven mod to show for it. This gonna be my last week attempting this after that I'm done trying to roll for this.

Rewards so far 2k,2k, lens,greater lens,exilus bp, lens 2k,2k.

Edited December 20, 2016 by (PS4)Tenchi145

[(PSN)Wormer105]

As of now I have missed one sortie since TWW dropped on PS4. In that time I have gotten endo, and lenses with one case of an exilus bp. I'm not exactly digging the way the lenses and endo seem to be weighed as far as drop chances. I would prefer the numbers get increased and them get put higher on the list as far as odds.