Riven Mods hurting the science of modding

[sekushiiandee]

Just now, Xekrin said:

Since they've been out literally only 4 days and we've yet to see a hotfix for this week I think we should have maybe the smallest iota of patience to see what happens from that whopping four days of feedback before freaking out.

Regardless, you aren't the only one who has made a thread about the balance of these mods and the randomness and so on and on and on.   Kinda wish a mod would gather them all up into a MEGATHREAD so bits of good feedback here and there doesn't get lost.

^agreed....we can say and give our feedback but we have to wait and see what happens

i just know people are getting get grinded out....DE should really come up with a better system so combat warframe burnout

[Skiddybike81273]

I personally want to see what Ideas people have to improve or replace this system

[Insizer]

35 minutes ago, Skiddybike81273 said:

At max rank

Jesus Christ.

[Skiddybike81273]

anyone who says this system will help under powered weapons is dead wrong

[Otis.Driftwood]

Only feedback ive been seeing is negative  "some1 does more damage than me  fix this now" posts .

Seriously this game is co-operative if some 1 does more damage its a good thing makes life easier for others who cant.

The mod cost attached to these mods alone means only some1 who has many many forma on a weapon can use them. Again not a problem you don't need these mods to kill trash mobs and were designed simply for high lvl  (LVL 150+)

And literally there is only a handful of players who do this, with these mods more and more peeps can go higher level it hurts the game in no way at all and many are jumping to the wrong conclusions cos they never go past the currently highest lvl tileset.

Everyone is so obsessed with getting the most kills in the game is whats hurting warframe not mods that give peeps potential to go to higher levels.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Otis.Driftwood

[armedpoop]

15 minutes ago, sekushiiandee said:

^agreed....that is exactly how i saw it...because people will constantly go for the top tier weapon mods regardless because its what they are used to

especially when you see other people with those mods...it makes it more appealing to keep striving for it...there is no real way to incentivize the weaker weapons if the stronger weapons get the same treatment for riven mods

True, this isnt even mentioning how these are basically just quick cash for DE, I mean these riven mods are literally Whale catchers. Its a real shame that we can see the effects of DE being bought out already. DE has waited too long to revoke these or change them drastically without pissing off alotta people who payed literally thousands of plat for these already. GG no RE. This is a travesty, the fact that the devs have remained silent about it only makes this whole thing worse. 

 

I never expected power creep like this. This flies in the face of "damage 3.0"

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

23 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

I cant see how people can still use the "weaker weapons become viable now" argument  when Riven mods exist for top tier weapons like Tonkor. Its like you are just ignoring that broken Tonkor mod up there lol

 

Riven mods are bad. I quit playing Borderlands due to this kind of BS getting old extremely quickly. 

And Destiny . ......... destroyed itself with the same joke as this..?

[PsiWarp]

Riven mods being randomised is very problematic. The fact that we can end up with both ends of the spectrum with all positive or all negative stats is either blatant Power Creep or a complete waste of time and effort.

Certain high power weapons of the Metagame should not receive high positive stat boosts (minor boosts are okay), instead add or build upon other skill-based features like leaving an AoE on headshot, status immunity on kill, etc.

Mastery fodder should receive high stat boosts to bring them into the Metagame (unless base values are balanced across the board in Damage 3.0). With non-AoE weapons gaining splash damage or punch-through, projectile speed, etc. Something to make them remarkable and viable in high level.

[Skiddybike81273]

we as player need to come together and say that this system really does not work with a game like warframe and that they as devs need to fix it

 

[armedpoop]

3 minutes ago, Otis.Driftwood said:

Only feedback ive been seeing is negative  "some1 does more damage than me  fix this now" posts .

Seriously this game is co-operative if some 1 does more damage its a good thing makes life easier for others who cant.

The mod cost attached to these mods alone means only some1 who has many many forma on a weapon can use them. Again not a problem you don't need these mods to kill trash mobs and were designed simply for high lvl  (LVL 150+)

And literally there is only a handful of players who do this, with these mods more and more peeps can go higher level it hurts the game in no way at all and many are jumping to the wrong conclusions cos they never go past the currently highest lvl tileset.

 

So tell me how balancing content for the "handful of players" who do this is going to be a good thing? Cause thats what is going to happen. 

[Sziklamester]

This system will burn the last players too. It is a clear answer from DE they are not wish to reduce the grind and balance instead the game just gimme more candy pls.

The game is not decided yet if it want to be a mindless mob shooter with the great called uniquevity or a skill based tactical shooter where the cover and skills much more important than the mods what do you use.

Warframes and weapons very dependant from the mod system and the answer more mods and one shot on each side (tenno - enemy) you down. Still the AI lacking and there is no real balance for old time weapons and enemies and not in warframes at all.

 

Personally I would like to go on a skill tree based system instead of the current one because that can be limited in boosts and not give significantly great boost to you but you can choose from a lot and decide to boost some of them or every while in this system the slots reduce your options and in return give you the same mindfack boosted krap.

 

Only the randomity and the mastery req which was good idea in this but the others are just make 100 thread like this. 

Welcome to warframe 2016-17.

[Otis.Driftwood]

4 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

So tell me how balancing content for the "handful of players" who do this is going to be a good thing? Cause thats what is going to happen. 

If you read my post again I did mention the potential of giving more people the chance to go higher. So it wont be just the handful that do this but opens the door for everyone to do this. If going to higher level isn't your thing it in no way harms anyone elses gamplay.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Otis.Driftwood

[Skiddybike81273]

Any mod that  can add a serration and a splitchamber into one is a bad idea and makes it look like DE has no planes to address the enemy scaleing or the problems in the current damage system. They both increase the grind and add more RNG on a already bloated system combined with the fact that these mods can be what ever the game feels like giving you no matter what challenge it gave you and can give crap stats on a already bad weapon is just bad.

[LSG501]

I can't say I like the idea behind riven mods due to their rng nature but I'm not even sure why we have them, not to mention some of the stupid unlock requirements.  Don't get me wrong I like the idea of weapon specific mods just not the way this is being done. 

To me it seems that we have most long term players asking for damage/enemy scaling to be balanced so DE's solution is a 'band aid' called riven mod which can essentially make meta weapons even more overpowered (if you're lucky enough to get one), just look at the tonkor one above... In other cases if the rng works out in your favour you may be able to make less capable weapons usable. 

On the otherside we have players who are asking for more of a challenge and these mods would in effect actually make it easier for them because if rng is favourable it allows your weapon to do more damage...

 

I will say I was quite lucky with my challenge, I just had to do 20 slide kills but the reward I got was for a hind which is hardly endgame material compared with say a tigris prime or a tonkor with that mod...

[armedpoop]

16 minutes ago, Otis.Driftwood said:

If you read my post again I did mention the potential of giving more people the chance to go higher. So it wont be just the handful that do this but opens the door for everyone to do this. If going to higher level isn't your thing it in no way harms anyone elses gamplay.

I have no issue with people going beyond the hardest DEAC, (lol hard DEAC?) but theres no reason for that to become the norm, when these insane numbers become the norm, they will start to balance the game around it. When you balance a game around high stats that you can ONLY get from something wrapped in 7 layers of RNG, you alienate your player base, and that leads to all sorts of issues, one of which is death of your game. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by armedpoop

[SugarShow]

6 hours ago, Skiddybike81273 said:

At max rank

this plus Mirage

Edited November 14, 2016 by SugarShow

[Arniox]

1 hour ago, Skiddybike81273 said:

When I first got these mods I was super interested in how they may work but after learning tat they are totally RNG I'm very disappointed as it destroys all balance related to weapons. I have started this thread to as the community to help come up with a more balanced alternative to this new system as warframe has always been a game about consistent numbers now  these mods throw it all out the window and puts RNG in a place it should not be, I personally feel this is not a healthy direction for the game and player base as effects more than just the damage system but also trade chat and player progression through the game. Please let us come together as a community to help fix this issue as the longer it stays in the game the worse it will get.

 

Stop complaining. You know what you're doing right? You're complaining because of change. People are now changing the market, the way they build and the way the meta works. Many people and I have always wanted something to change the meta. And now we have it, and people like you complain about the change. 

Also, I'm not saying you do, but some people hate the new system simply because it allows other people to use non-meta weapons and make them 10 times better than the normal meta weapons. Yesterday, I saw a guy with a grakata mod that would have made a grakata better than the soma prime. And someone was complaining in chat that it was wrong.

Basically, please stop complain about the new system. I can't speak for others, but I know that I love this new system. And I bet a lot of other people love this system. I personally don't want to see it change, just continue onwards. So please stop complaining about this awesome new system.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

24 minutes ago, Skiddybike81273 said:

anyone who says this system will help under powered weapons is dead wrong

It was all just fun and fashionframing until this update...

While I can see your point, here's the kicker...  You can actually take some non riven, but maxed out mods and use starter frames, MK1 weapons, etc. and complete the star map.  With better gear that has decent base stats you can take nearly maxed mod gear and do reasonably well in 90% of the content.

I mean, let's face it...  The only thing that some of these insanely OP mods let players do now that they couldn't do before is take down level 500 enemies as fast as they could take down level 200 enemies before.  Enemy mechanics are still the same, just numbers are different.  In the end those in the constant quest for limitless power will realize their efforts will leave them empty as I'm sure many of the people rocking those 7000p sybaris mods aren't world champion class MLG superstars.  XD

I will add that personally I've started my quest of adding a bunch of forma to my Dera Vandal (will probably do for my Dera too) and before I used to have a maxed heavy caliber on it (to keep my damage competitive with some of the stronger weapons), but I hated using that because it made the bullet spread wild like a Supra.  Now I can enjoy the weapon's 100% accuracy and still do great damage.

I have mixed feelings about this update.  I can understand the point of this thread, but also I feel like the new power that can be had is now taking players from being able to steamroll level 300 enemies to level 500 enemies, etc.  (I'm arbitrarily throwing out enemy level numbers just to make a point, haven't tested at level 500 yet.  hahaha.)

[Otis.Driftwood]

8 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

I have no issue with people going beyond the hardest DEAC, (lol hard DEAC?) but theres no reason for that to become the norm, when these insane numbers become the norm, they will start to balance the game around it. When you balance a game around high stats that you can ONLY get from something wrapped in 7 layers of RNG, you alienate your player base, and that leads to all sorts of issues, one of which is death of your game. 

I get were your coming from BUT there is reasons for going higher lvls. Take endless void fissures the longer you play the more rewarding it becomes with affinity boosting / resource boosting / radiant relics etc.

People cant see beyond the lvl 20 trash mobs and using riven mods on weapons to kill lvl 20 trash yes probly a bad thing.

The way I see it its the have nots that are complaining about this. And these mods are designed for higher MR players who have next to nothing to keep them playing.

So to sum up I do agree with you BUT players like myself and many others who have achieved pretty much everything need something to do.

Is this the answer No I fear it isn't and you are spot on but despite that its only been like 4 days since these things came out when more and more people have the mods they want things will quite down. 

[sekushiiandee]

i believe it just opens a can of worms....because if we normalize riven mod farming and its potential of being way overpowered...it gives DE the right to make events and enemies scale to the level of these riven mods

they already have made mods that have safeguards toward powerful weapons....we have to go into transference and put ourselves in a heap of danger in order to kill kuva guards.  if you're soloing you are just effed.  there are bosses with multiple phases or ridiculously high armor rating that take an enormous amount of time (not to mention mechanics in between fighting them, as well as grind and time wall prior to fighting them...i.e. kela de thaym arena time and grind wall..and yes it is a grind for lower lvl players just trying to get saryn because they are not capable of handling the higher level arenas)

I also do not believe that OP was complaining, he is just informing the rest of us and giving his opinion (which i agree with).  It is technically a broken system that has many flaws in it with the potential to be game breaking.  We should put some checks and balances in it now before it opens up to other weapon types and/or warframe mods

Edited November 15, 2016 by sekushiiandee

[-CM-Raven]

This cycle system feels incomplete or wrong, what they should have done (in my logic):

A. make it a fixed kuva cost for every cycle

B. make it a capped perpetual cost with increase chance with every time you cycle to the point your reached that max kuva cost.

For example (these numbers are just for the sake of example):

cap at 5 cycles >

cycle 1: 10% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 900 kuva

cycle 2: 20% chance to get x4 stats with cost of 1800 kuva

cycle 3: 30% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 2700 kuva

cycle 4: 40% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 3600 kuva

cycle 5: 50% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 4500 kuva

cycle 6 + (or max cap cycle): 100% chance to get x4 for the cost of 4500 kuva + increased chance of better stats

Sure will still be rng but will also have a sense of progression , of sense and not just mindless grind.

Having just a increase in cost every time you do cycle without an upside makes it feel hollow , to not use other words.

Edited November 15, 2016 by -CM-Raven

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I see the fun in random mods but for the life of me I can't figure out how to work it in. It's very confusing after what I heard about the possible removal of damage mods but then we see these mods come out and I don't know the direction they're going and wonder if they do. Something like this could easily work--in a different game built around it from the ground up. It also just feels weird with all the other mods having set stats and when you get down to copying builds or looking for guidence, we now have the usual staple mods and to get a weapon to become top tier, you're left telling someone to get a riven mod for that weapon and reroll it until... they get as good of of a mod as they have for that particular build lol. It just doesn't mesh well with what has already been established. You got your regular mods, your prime mods, now Riven mods look like an experiment that is going to backfire if they need to be taken away.

 

 

[xFrostKnightx]

4 hours ago, Otis.Driftwood said:

Spoiler

 

Only feedback ive been seeing is negative  "some1 does more damage than me  fix this now" posts .

Seriously this game is co-operative if some 1 does more damage its a good thing makes life easier for others who cant.

The mod cost attached to these mods alone means only some1 who has many many forma on a weapon can use them. Again not a problem you don't need these mods to kill trash mobs and were designed simply for high lvl  (LVL 150+)

And literally there is only a handful of players who do this, with these mods more and more peeps can go higher level it hurts the game in no way at all and many are jumping to the wrong conclusions cos they never go past the currently highest lvl tileset.

Everyone is so obsessed with getting the most kills in the game is whats hurting warframe not mods that give peeps potential to go to higher levels.

 

 

Careful, if you try to give the same pov as de then people will treat you with the same disrespect even if you're right. 

12 minutes ago, -CM-Raven said:

Spoiler

 

This cycle system feels incomplete or wrong, what they should have done (in my logic):

A. make it a fixed kuva cost for every cycle

B. make it a capped perpetual cost with increase chance with every time you cycle to the point your reached that max kuva cost.

For example (these numbers are just for the sake of example):

cap at 5 cycles >

cycle 1: 10% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 900 kuva

cycle 2: 20% chance to get x4 stats with cost of 1800 kuva

cycle 3: 30% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 2700 kuva

cycle 4: 40% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 3600 kuva

cycle 5: 50% chance to get x4 stats with the cost of 4500 kuva

cycle 6 + (or max cap cycle): 100% chance to get x4 for the cost of 4500 kuva + increased chance of better stats

Sure will still be rng but will also have a sense of progression , of sense and not just mindless grind.

Having just a increase in cost every time you do cycle without an upside makes it seem hollow , to not use other words.

 

 

A. People will still complain about how its easier now to get op mods then resume nit picking. 

B. Grind, Grind, Grind, Grind.  This is the only thing people will see, they won't care about your system or cycle. When you give the community an "optional" choice it's not "optional" It becomes in their eyes "must have" and twist it's intended purpose to then cry that it's unfair. 

 

It's not that i think it's a bad idea. It's just nobody will care about how you get the mod, they only care if it's strong. The fact it exists people will complain "He's helping me kill enemies, I hate him!!!". 

Read the above reply in this comment by driftwood. 
Put it this way. Right now I can pick up any weapon, mod it and take it on Any mission and get through it without a problem. So where does "power creep" comes into play? lvl 100+ enemies, thats where.  How many people are currently fighting lvl100+ enemies? The surprise is, none of the people who are complaining about "balance" with these new mods.  

Those people who do go to lvl 100+  do not care if suddenly some guy walks past with a goron dealing a ton of damage. Nobody ever stops and says "Man, I hate how useless weapons can be used now to fight lvl100+ enemies. I wish he would stop helping me kill these enemies".  

[-CM-Raven]

The cycle system has nothing to do with how you get the mods themselves , the mods are tied to the quest/sorties that is another rng wall to get past, add that to A method it still won't be easy at all , considering all the possible stats combinations , will pretty much equal to farming a new prime set more or less (needing the right relic , add some endo and keep going until you get it); i even think farming a new prime set would be actually easier than getting the right weapon mod + unveil +  farming kuva (which again isn't 100% sure spawn) + getting a desirable stats combo , sure some people might "complain" it would be easier and it would be , but not by much and definitely not too easy and in my opinion definitely better than having a system that penalize you for a chance of getting something better or desirable.

 And to be honest i doubt these mods are optional , they may be now , but when the damage rework hits and hopefully the enemies scaling , we might be looking at something we rather have starting from level 30+ enemies , but this is just hunch , the problem remains though: if they going to continue adding too much stuff that requires too much grind for a chance with no upsides on that whole process of obtaining that chance , then the game will eventually stagnate and slowly will lose it's player base , specially the player base that matter most: the new players that ensure the continuity of the game.

Edited November 15, 2016 by -CM-Raven

[Otis.Driftwood]

These mods are already tied to Mastery level.

New players even if they obtain them wont be able to use them until they reach requirement.

I think this is the main reason people are screaming about this.

Its always the have nots that complain and when things change they complain even more Damned if they do and Damned if they don't.

You don't have to continue to re roll these things as the cost increases exponentially.

Why cant people be satisfied at certain points?  the gambling addiction tied to the very system of re rolling them.

If you don't get the desired stats you could simply sell it move on BUT the addiction of power is controlling peoples actions.

Its only a grind if you make it one.