Sorties need proper Duplicate Prevention or Rivens need their own Alerts

[Brynslustafir]

Now that DE has done away with duplicate prevention for sorties, many people (such as myself) are unable to get anything besides 2k endo and the occasional lens from their daily runs. If Riven stats are already dependent on RNG, you don't need to also lock them behind one of the most annoying RNG walls in the game. 

The simplest solution would be to restore sortie duplicate prevention, remove riven mods from sorties, and give them alert appearances instead, or make them a weekly or bi/weekly thing such as the Gift of the Lotus alerts for Catalysts and Reactors. 

At the very least, if DE wants to keep Riven mods bound to sorties, PROPER duplicate prevention needs to be implemented. Treat the list of potential rewards as a checklist. Don't reward the same thing twice until all items have been checked. Or better yet, refresh and restart the checklist after it has been completed.  Nobody enjoys running sorties for 6 days straight and getting the same 2k endo every single day. 

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Plasmaface

[TheScytale]

Just so you know, duplicate prevention does nothing to improve the odds of getting your desired drop.

[Brynslustafir]

14 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

Just so you know, duplicate prevention does nothing to improve the odds of getting your desired drop.

It does, actually. By stopping you from getting 2k endo every single day.

Even if you get every other drop before the Riven mod, there will eventually be no other drops for the game to give. 

So much for that then. I guess Sortie rewards have always been bad. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Plasmaface

[Trichouette]

Just now, Plasmaface said:

It does, actually. By stopping you from getting 2k endo every single day.

it doesn't...  The old system just replaced already obtained loot by endo, it didn't increase the chance of geting what you want.

The only thing I was interested in in TWW was the potential new frame and the sortie reward rework.

Result : no new frame and sortie missions are still giving me endo and lenses.

I DON'T WANT LENSES

They have absolutely no use whatsoever to me.

[TheScytale]

Just now, Plasmaface said:

It does, actually. By stopping you from getting 2k endo every single day.

It doesn't, it just replaces the item by 2k endo (or 4k iirc).

Let's say you can get item A, B, C, and endo, each of them with a 25% drop chance. Getting item A on first day will not make that 33% for each. You will still have 25%, and when you (hypotethically) roll item A, it gets replaced by 2k or 4k endo. 

[Latiac]

Out of 12 runs of sorties, 11 of them I have recieved 2k endo. 1 was a Riven mod.

[Luther848]

2 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

It does, actually. By stopping you from getting 2k endo every single day.

Nope the 2k Endo was what you got if you already had a reward. So if you already had earned 1 Riven mod in the Sortie and the next Riven mod  you earn is Guaranteed to get turned into Endo.

[Jeahanne]

1 minute ago, Plasmaface said:

It does, actually. By stopping you from getting 2k endo every single day.

Technically no. The way the system woks is that if RNG were to try to give you something already marked off on the list, it doesn't re-roll your reward from what remains in the reward table. Instead it gives you a repeatable reward instead, usually Endo. You wouldn't be getting another shot at a Riven mod with locked rewards, and it wouldn't change your  chance at the reward at all.

[Imaru]

1 minute ago, TheScytale said:

Just so you know, duplicate prevention does nothing to improve the odds of getting your desired drop.

It kind of does. If you can't get the same thing 2 days in a row you will, by definition, have a larger chance of getting the item you want the second day (provided you didn't get what you wanted on the first day) because you're drawing on a smaller pool. That said, it isn't a perfect long term solution, but it would be helpful. 

 

As for alternate ways of getting them, the unfortunate reality is that whatever they go with needs to be locked until the player completes The War Within, as Riven mods are introduced through TWW. Therefore, a Gift of the Lotus style alert (or any alert for that matter) wouldn't work. Maybe putting them in the login lottery would be a suitable solution, but I'm not sure how well that would work long term.

 

I think the best way to revise getting Riven mods would be to actually explore the lore behind them through a quest (What are they? Where do they come from?) that leads to access to a weekly/daily mission like the Man of Few Words quest does with the Help Clem missions. 

[CJBael]

If they added a duplicate reduction chance when you get a reward it would help, so say 2K Endo has 25% chance of being rewarded then when you get it it reduces the chance of getting it again by 5% so now it's only 20% chance and keep reducing until you get a different reward.  Or something along those lines to keep some RNG (hate that thing) but still giving chance at getting something better?

[Luther848]

2 minutes ago, Imaru said:

It kind of does. If you can't get the same thing 2 days in a row you will, by definition, have a larger chance of getting the item you want the second day (provided you didn't get what you wanted on the first day) because you're drawing on a smaller pool. That said, it isn't a perfect long term solution, but it would be helpful. 

 

As for alternate ways of getting them, the unfortunate reality is that whatever they go with needs to be locked until the player completes The War Within, as Riven mods are introduced through TWW. Therefore, a Gift of the Lotus style alert (or any alert for that matter) wouldn't work. Maybe putting them in the login lottery would be a suitable solution, but I'm not sure how well that would work long term.

 

I think the best way to revise getting Riven mods would be to actually explore the lore behind them through a quest (What are they? Where do they come from?) that leads to access to a weekly/daily mission like the Man of Few Words quest does with the Help Clem missions. 

Warframe old Duplicate prevention system simply replaced Duplicate rewards with Endo it didn't reroll them so the chance wasn't any better.

[Brynslustafir]

7 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

It doesn't, it just replaces the item by 2k endo (or 4k iirc).

Let's say you can get item A, B, C, and endo, each of them with a 25% drop chance. Getting item A on first day will not make that 33% for each. You will still have 25%, and when you (hypotethically) roll item A, it gets replaced by 2k or 4k endo. 

Well crap.

The term duplicate prevention led me to believe that it might actually be somewhat user friendly. 

I probably shouldn't get my hoped up when it comes to DE and RNG. 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Plasmaface

[Imaru]

1 minute ago, Luther848 said:

Warframe old Duplicate prevention system simply replaced Duplicate rewards with Endo it didn't reroll them so the chance wasn't any better.

Hence me saying "Kind of."

I understand that it used to replace it with just Endo, but the way it works now has changed since then so they could do it differently. That said, I still don't think that Sorties are the right place to have Riven Mods. 

[Insizer]

9 minutes ago, Latiac said:

Out of 12 runs of sorties, 11 of them I have recieved 2k endo. 1 was a Riven mod.

Did you sacrifice the necessary goat to get better chances. Because that might be your problem.

[Latiac]

Just now, Insizer said:

Did you sacrifice the necessary goat to get better chances. Because that might be your problem.

I got Ivara in 7 runs. Maybe this is payback from RNG itself.

[Jeahanne]

2 minutes ago, Imaru said:

It kind of does. If you can't get the same thing 2 days in a row you will, by definition, have a larger chance of getting the item you want the second day (provided you didn't get what you wanted on the first day) because you're drawing on a smaller pool. That said, it isn't a perfect long term solution, but it would be helpful.

If the system rolled your rewards odds that way, then yes I would agree with you, but that's not how it currently works.

Let's use a basic statistic example for this. Look at the Sortie rewards like different color balls in a bag, with your chance at getting a certain reward all equal when you blindly reach in and pull one out. The system doesn't see you getting a reward you don't want like pulling a ball out of the bag and leaving it on the table, thus increasing your chances at getting a different color the next time you draw. Instead, the system puts the ball you just drew back in the bag, and just assigns that ball a new "color" if you were to pull it out again. Your odds at getting a different color don't increase because you drew a ball, the ball goes right back in the bag and keeps all of your chances the same regardless of if it was one you wanted or not.

Because of this, locking rewards to only be obtainable so many times doesn't change the overall statistics at all.

[Insizer]

1 minute ago, Latiac said:

I got Ivara in 7 runs. Maybe this is payback from RNG itself.

Yeah, that would do it.

[salubri]

13 minutes ago, Latiac said:

Out of 12 runs of sorties, 11 of them I have recieved 2k endo. 1 was a Riven mod.

how did you run 12 sorties if the TWW update have less than7 days?

[TheScytale]

5 minutes ago, Imaru said:

It kind of does. If you can't get the same thing 2 days in a row you will, by definition, have a larger chance of getting the item you want the second day (provided you didn't get what you wanted on the first day) because you're drawing on a smaller pool. That said, it isn't a perfect long term solution, but it would be helpful. 

That isn't how it worked, I explained how it does a few minutes ago (you may need to refresh when you're typing sometimes :P).

5 minutes ago, Imaru said:

I think the best way to revise getting Riven mods would be to actually explore the lore behind them through a quest (What are they? Where do they come from?) that leads to access to a weekly/daily mission like the Man of Few Words quest does with the Help Clem missions. 

This I would agree with. All we "know" about Riven mods is that they're made by some cephalon (Riven), and the only link to the War Within and these mods is kuva.

[Latiac]

1 minute ago, salubri said:

how did you run 12 sorties if the TWW update have less than7 days?

Not from TWW itself, but from a few before then too.

 

I'm just emphasising that my luck getting anything but endo from sorties is pretty low.

[EyeLaikCheez]

What we need is more variety and a better end game. Running sorties for cores and riven mods is simply not worth it in my eyes. (Mostly because 90% of the time you'll end up with cores) I suggest that new rewards be added to the system.

[salubri]

40 minutes ago, Latiac said:

Not from TWW itself, but from a few before then too.

 

I'm just emphasising that my luck getting anything but endo from sorties is pretty low.

oh i know that feeling from last season i got endo 14 out of 20 sorties(havent run sorties since TWW)

[Nox_Terminus]

Why does the once per day sortie offer 2k endo when I can farm 2k endo on Heiracon in a matter of a few hours? People want to try out riven mods, they can't get any more to test unless they shovel plat at people, and most people dont have the plat to shovel.

[Brynslustafir]

3 hours ago, Nox_Terminus said:

Why does the once per day sortie offer 2k endo when I can farm 2k endo on Heiracon in a matter of a few hours? People want to try out riven mods, they can't get any more to test unless they shovel plat at people, and most people dont have the plat to shovel.

You can get 2k endo in Rathuum in under 30 mins. 

This only makes it harder to justify binding Rivens to Sorties.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Plasmaface

[Nox_Terminus]

2 hours ago, Plasmaface said:

You can get 2k endo in Rathuum in under 30 mins. 

This only makes it harder to justify binding Rivens to Sorties.

Id rather they were given by Teshin as guaranteed weekly mission reward, but hey that would be too easy.