Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[PoisonHD]

5 minutes ago, leviticus23 said:

Wtf That doesnt make sense. 

Yes it does... especially if he captured a Gesemi valkyr... which has elements of both frames in it.

Spoiler

And also especially if Alad V, was trying to design a prime frame better then the Orokin, which he is either a survivor of, or an outcast.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by PoisonHD

[DoppelShifter]

23 minutes ago, Damuranashi said:

Alad V was trying to make the Gesemi Valkyr look like the Prime version when he experimented on her. There. I cannot believe you people are going insane over this.

Even considering that

Spoiler

Alad V is descendent from the Orokin

 your "lore explanation" doesn't make sense. He wasn't alive back in the Orokin War. And he was using Valkyr to experiment on creating the Zanuka hunter, not to "perfect Valkyr to her former self". That simply doesn't fit any of the current lore.
 

10 minutes ago, Cephalon_Esrius said:

DE also may have based the Prime off of the standard version seeing that you have to pay for Gersemi, but not for standard Valkyr. Furthermore, I find multiple visual similarities between ALL variants of Valkyr. Perhaps when Valkyr Prime was mass produced as Gersemi, some extra visual features were added or expanded upon (The tail is a good example), only to be latter stripped down by Alad.

But there's a difference. Most Deluxe skins are either an esoteric take with a different theme (such as the Trinity and Loki skins) or gaiden allusions to Dark Sector (Excalibur and Nyx skins), but Gersemi Valkyr is the only Deluxe Skin so far to be canonically and confirmed by DE to be part of the lore of the original frame (Valkyr), being her original form before Alad V experimented with her.

Thus why this is a lore break, while the other Deluxe Skins are not.

Edited November 22, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[PoisonHD]

1 minute ago, DoppelShifter said:

 your "lore explanation" doesn't make sense. He wasn't alive back in the Orokin War. And he was using Valkyr to experiment on creating the Zanuka hunter, not to "perfect Valkyr to her former self". That simply doesn't fit any of the current lore.

Spoiler part in my post. Say he made Zanuka after his failure to... recreate Valkyr Prime. Since it failed utterly. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by PoisonHD

[Damuranashi]

26 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Well, I pressed the wrong button. Anyways, we don't know if he wasn't alive, Hunhow calls him an Orokin. And we don't know what he exactly wanted to do with Valkyr, I doubt it was turning her into Prime again, but it could be make his own version. He failed anyways whatever he was trying to do.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Damuranashi

[(XBOX)SlvrDmon1215]

13 minutes ago, leviticus23 said:

Amen this is way better then a rage thread which is kinda understandable but this is a better show of emotions on how we valkyr mains are upset 

I agree and thank this thread for relaying in a completely objective form. My threads admittedly are more emotion driven, but there's plenty of reasons on why they messed up this time around. Well written doppelshifter

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

14 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Yes it does... especially if he captured a Gesemi valkyr... which has elements of both frames in it.

  Hide contents

And also especially if Alad V, was trying to design a prime frame better then the Orokin, which he is either a survivor of, or an outcast.

 

But he wasnt he was trying to make zanuka and ripping apart valkyr 

[DoppelShifter]

16 minutes ago, Damuranashi said:

Well, I pressed the wrong button. Anyways, we don't know if he wasn't alive,

 

. And we don't know what he exactly wanted to do with Valkyr, I doubt it was turning her into Prime again, but it could be make his own version. He failed anyways whatever he was trying to do.

Spoiler

Well, lemme get a bit into that:

Considering which characters call Salad V an "Orokin", and considering what we know about the Corpus origin, he's probably referring to him as an Orokin because of the Corpus heritage, not because he himself was alive in the Orokin period.

And as for Valkyr, we do know she was a failed experiment during the Zanuka project. And while not explicitly stated by DE... just look at Gersemi and Zanuka colors. Now consider that Zanuka canonically was made using components from many different Warframes. Pieces start to fit, no?

Edited November 22, 2016 by DoppelShifter
The editor screwed up the spoiler markups.

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)SlvrDmon1215 said:

I agree and thank this thread for relaying in a completely objective form. My threads admittedly are more emotion driven, but there's plenty of reasons on why they messed up this time around. Well written doppelshifter

I read your and i completely undaerstand where you coming from i am just as upsat as you are

:(

[Raniu]

1 hour ago, ShaneKahnnigan17 said:

The animation and screams are the same I can tell you that much. Didn't try hysteria yet but It's not different I think.

Well, that's kinda sad. But at least one ability must be 'primed', it's true for every prime frame. One ability has a bit different visual or some FX added to it. Better that than nothing :l

[zValor]

Valkyr has such an interesting story. It would be a shame if we dont get a trailer for this prime.

 

I personally think the design is great, and while it has some reminiscence of defualt valkyr its still a very unique design.

[Zeiss17]

4 minutes ago, Raniu said:

Well, that's kinda sad. But at least one ability must be 'primed', it's true for every prime frame. One ability has a bit different visual or some FX added to it. Better that than nothing :l

Oh they are somewhat fancified. But they are exactly the same.

 

Still, I got my money worth.....dat Prime a(ss)ccess...

Edited November 22, 2016 by ShaneKahnnigan17

[(XBOX)SlvrDmon1215]

8 minutes ago, leviticus23 said:

I read your and i completely undaerstand where you coming from i am just as upsat as you are

:(

thank you because after seeing the outcry from all of us valk fans I had to say something. Then my thread got trashed by people that don't even care or can't read

[Damuranashi]

30 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, lemme get a bit into that:

Considering which characters call Salad V an "Orokin", and considering what we know about the Corpus origin, he's probably referring to him as an Orokin because of the Corpus heritage, not because he himself was alive in the Orokin period.

And as for Valkyr, we do know she was a failed experiment during the Zanuka project. And while not explicitly stated by DE... just look at Gersemi and Zanuka colors. Now consider that Zanuka canonically was made using components from many different Warframes. Pieces start to fit, no?

Well man, the Alad being called a [DATA EXPUNGED] and the Zanuka colors are speculative points.

[DoppelShifter]

9 minutes ago, Damuranashi said:

Well man, the Alad being called a [DATA EXPUNGED] and the Zanuka colors are speculative points.

And to be fair, so was that you said in your first post in this thread:
 

Quote

Alad V was trying to make the Gesemi Valkyr look like the Prime version when he experimented on her. There. I cannot believe you people are going insane over this.

So let's list the hard data we do have:

- A Gersemi Valkyr was captured by Alad V
- She was a failed subject during the Zanuka Project
- The mangled Valkyr is actually a Gersemi Valkyr with a lot of features removed (specially armor plating, her winglets and her tail) and with the restraining gauntlets added.
- Gersemi Valkyr was introduced as a Deluxe Skin and stated as "the true form of Valkyr before her capture by Alad V".
- Prime Warframes are the original of each series, with the non-Primes being engineered by the Tenno (and Mangled Valkyr being the sole exception so far, being a re-engineered Gersemi Valkyr by Alad V)

With that we do know that, between Mangled Valkyr and Gersemi Valkyr, Gersemi is the closest one to the original.

That's where the inconsistency lies: the hard data we have points to Gersemi Valkyr being the best candidate for basis for Valkyr Prime. Yet DE picked the Mangled Valkyr as a base, omitting the valkyrie winglets and her tail and working over the exposed sub-armor plates, which were the result of Alad V fussing around (Gersemi has smooth armor plates all over).

In my book, that's inconsistency.

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by DoppelShifter

[Damuranashi]

26 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

And to be fair, so was that you said in your first post in this thread:
 

So let's list the hard data we do have:

- A Gersemi Valkyr was captured by Alad V
- She was a failed subject during the Zanuka Project
- The mangled Valkyr is actually a Gersemi Valkyr with a lot of features removed (specially armor plating, her winglets and her tail) and with the restraining gauntlets added.
- Gersemi Valkyr was introduced as a Deluxe Skin and stated as "the true form of Valkyr before her capture by Alad V".
- Prime Warframes are the original of each series, with the non-Primes being engineered by the Tenno (and Mangled Valkyr being the sole exception so far, being a re-engineered Gersemi Valkyr by Alad V)

With that we do know that, between Mangled Valkyr and Gersemi Valkyr, Gersemi is the closest one to the original.

That's where the inconsistency lies: the hard data we have points to Gersemi Valkyr being the best candidate for basis for Valkyr Prime. Yet DE picked the Mangled Valkyr as a base, omitting the valkyrie winglets and her tail and working over the exposed sub-armor plates.

In my book, that's inconsistency.

 

Touché. Still going to get her no matter the lore though.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Damuranashi

[Misgenesis]

Gersemi is a Tenno interpretation. Valkyr Prime couldve looked like a whole different frame altogether. This isnt lore breaking.

[DoppelShifter]

3 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Gersemi is a Tenno interpretation. Valkyr Prime couldve looked like a whole different frame altogether. This isnt lore breaking.

That's the thing: the released Valkyr Prime is inspired by the Mangled Valkyr by Alad V (including the protruding armor plates, result of Alad V messing around and removing the solid plates that we see on the Gersemi version). That is lore breaking.

If she had any other external inspiration (like her helmet, which I actually liked, since it has feline features AND those halos that point to the Valkyrie motif), I'd be okay with it. But she was based on the Mangled Valkyr (which, if you look at the model, even has the open extension in the end of the spine where you would find a tail; which is present in the Gersemi form), and that is a lore break.  

Also worth stating that again: the "normal" mangled Valkyr WAS a Gersemi Valkyr before the experiments. So basing anything on the mangled instead of Gersemi and calling it "the original version" is a lore break.

[RawGritz]

 

[RawGritz]

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by RawGritz

[RawGritz]

Uhh. Actually watched the whole thing... More like a tease...maybe? I hope.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

3 minutes ago, RawGritz said:

 

We get it, DE. The mannequin challenge is a thing.

[RawGritz]

Just now, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

We get it, DE. The mannequin challenge is a thing.

LMAO!

[Gelkor]

That's it? No Ballas narration?

=(

[AM-Bunny]

I wish Warframe went more in this sort of dark, gritty direction than the lighthearted campiness we've been seeing.

[Jokie155]

2 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

That's it? No Ballas narration?

=(

Hooray. No mispronunciation, like Vehl-Keehr. Siir-In annoyed me a lot.