Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[kyori]

Plot Twist: Valkyr Prime is the orokin twin sister of normal Valkyr. Both were caught by Alad-V but details only revealed the normal Valkyr being caught.

[RunningTree3]

I'm not deliberately rocking the boat here, but I thought I would share my tiny subjective personal opinion: I do see a visual likeness between standard Valkyr and Gersemi already. And Valkyr Prime looks like Valkyr, including with Gersemi skin. YMMV

[Ailissa]

What, exactly, do people expect DE to do?

 

Completely change the look of something people have spent £50+ on?

 

That would go down well, wouldn't it.

 

[HimitsuDragon]

Val Prime is made with gaps in her armor so she can be hurt/angered to boost her rage mode.

Tenno later try to counter this with full armor to make her rages more controllable.

Alad V strips this armor off to put on Zenuka.

Tenno Designed Val is now pissed and easier to hurt/anger.

 

Though this is all just fan theory in the end, my stance on all this is wait an see if anything actually comes forward and save the headache if it sounds stupid. Till then I'll just enjoy the game.

[Whit3Powd3R]

6 hours ago, DoppelShifter said:

*watches trailer*

....Dialogue?

:v

I had the same feeling.. watched it and was shocked for few minutes...and voice in my head repeating W...T...F was that....

if that's final.

.well just sad

[Lanadra]

1 hour ago, FoxyKabam said:

I don't think there will ever be a good lore explanation for valk prime

instead lets look at maybe why she looks like this

• TWW was delayed so long they had to rush the next prime out
• whos in line? Banshee and Valk
• what time of year is it? Thanksgiving/Christmas
• what frames more popular? Valk

 

so DE rushes Valk Prime with plat and here we are

 

with this whole lore situation going on its no surprise there's no trailer either, whatever DE does to try and explain her lore-wise might light up more torches and pitch forks, easiest thing they can do is keep quiet and wait for it to blow over

and unlike other slightly similar situations, this wont affect profits enough to force a statement or any real damage control, people are going to buy her

 

in the end its probably better they skipped banshee so she wasn't rushed, she may actually look good

my 2¢

And then we all cry when we realize Valkyr had the best/most interesting lore and potential for a well done prime.. and instead it does very much look like they rushed her.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Artorius-Alter

[DoppelShifter]

2 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

What, exactly, do people expect DE to do?

 

Completely change the look of something people have spent £50+ on?

 

That would go down well, wouldn't it.

 

At the very least an explanation?

Does it have lore? Was it an oversight? Will it stay like that? (DE reworked a lot of weapons in the past because they didn't fit the lore. This would be the first Warframe, but... might as well be the first).

Other slightly minor options would be including an accessory pack to add the Gersemi details (i.e Winglets and tail), or a Gersemi Prime skin (even if it's sold for plat; I wouldn't mind paying, considering making a skin means extra work for the team to do).

But "something" is better than plain silence. Or having our Forum Threads shuffled around because (???) and no answers come.

[DoppelShifter]

22 minutes ago, Belgard said:

The discussions about it have been going nonstop since last week. They have been surely noticed, regardless of being in Gen and not Feedback. DE are aware of the lore issues as well, they said as much in the latest devstream.

They're supposedly working on a lore trailer. If you have facebook, you can probably see the statement yourself. I haven't seen it but I trust fellow Tenno would not tell lies, here, on the Warframe forum. How good the final justification is going to be remains to be seen.

You're right, it's in the last devstream, VERY briefly. In this part, specifically:

https://youtu.be/mPPcQle4ud4?t=2856

They talk VERY BRIEFLY about them having to choose between Vanilla Valkyr and Gersemi, and that this would raise lore issues, but they were working on that.

...Well. Those answers better come fast, because it's been 5 days and people are simply raging on Facebook and a lot of forum threads. And the mute teaser trailer only made those people angrier, because it had absolutely zero lore there.

[DoppelShifter]

Well, just found out that everything I asked or said is basically moot.

The Devs already mentioned briefly in the last devstream (here: https://youtu.be/mPPcQle4ud4?t=2856) that they know it's a lore challenge, it was a deliberate choice to go primarily with Vanillla Valkyr instead of Gersemi, and they are still workin on lore explanations for that.


...The problem is that... it's been 5 days since the stream, people are RAGING on the Facebook page and on other threads throughout the forums... And the mute teaser only made people angrier because it had basically zero lore.

Maybe Codex, maybe a proper trailer in the works... guess we'll have to wait.

At this point, I don't know whether we should keep the pressure (which gives clear signal flares that we care about that, it's important to us, so it must be prioritized) or just wait (because then people can take their time and maybe make a better job).

....Still, not a comfortable situation. Nor for us and it seems that not for the devs either.

 

[Yrveth]

2 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Those answers better come fast, because it's been 5 days and people are simply raging on Facebook and a lot of forum threads.

That offhand preview in the stream was an odd move, but... technically it's been just a few hours since the prime launched. The wait has only just begun.

I am curious if they will go with the currently popular "Alad V was trying to recreate Valkyr Prime" explanation.

[erny0507]

Valkyr had always a messy lore. It was kinda fixed with the deluxe skin and now the prime just makes a mess of it The prime is obvioulsy based on the valkyr that was touched by the corpus not on the deluxe, which shouldn have been the case. Even on her description says that she is pre corpus, "unscarred", so what now? what is her actual story now? I know lore is not exactly the strongest point of warframe (cough nova's design), but now its getting too obvious to ignore it.

By the way Im okay with her powers, that could be said that she always had them and she always was a melee fighter. But the design doesnt make sense though.

Edited November 23, 2016 by erny0507

[DoppelShifter]

2 minutes ago, Belgard said:

That offhand preview in the stream was an odd move, but... technically it's been just a few hours since the prime launched. The wait has only just begun.

I am curious if they will go with the currently popular "Alad V was trying to recreate Valkyr Prime" explanation.

That's the thing... if they already knew stuff would be hard to explain, and if they already knew people were confused and asking about it (with raging comments everywhere, after a certain point), they should have at least something ready by launch (because there's these 5 days, plus what they said they were already working on).

And at launch we have... nnnnothing. No Codex text blurb, no actual voiced trailer, nothing. I hope we get at least something soon.

[artemisfortune]

No it doesn't, unless you believe in headcanon. What about her gauntlets and removable ribbons look corpus to you? They aren't bonds. Her model is based on the gersemi skin with added gauntlets and prime bits.

[erny0507]

43 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

No it doesn't, unless you believe in headcanon. What about her gauntlets and removable ribbons look corpus to you? They aren't bonds. Her model is based on the gersemi skin with added gauntlets and prime bits.

._.  

You need to look it slowly and you will see. Is very, very obvious.

Gersemi has tail and small wings, valkyr p  have very diferent ones and there are more details.

Check this video and see it yourself

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by erny0507

[Zachles]

"Gersemi" Valkyr is Tenno-made, while Valkyr Prime is Orokin-made. There's bound to be similarities and differences, since they were made by two different factions.

[Yrveth]

I'm starting to think we may get a dose of chilly Steve-style sarcasm in the sense that we are not entitled to anything just because we're invested in the lore, along with whatever else they are preparing.

They've had longer than 5 days to come up with the Beautiful Lore Explanation That Will Make Everything Make Sense, considering when the PA was first leaked, but in all fairness all lore-writing, trailer-narrating resources were probably engaged in TWW at first, then in post-TWW hotfix mess, and if they weren't ready yet on Friday, that leaves only Monday and half of Tuesday to work on things.

Do you think it's better to get the Beautiful Lore etc. in pieces (for example, a tweet saying "Don't worry, lore-geeks, we got this!" today, codex blurb tomorrow, trailer next week) or all together?

[erny0507]

Just now, Zachles said:

"Gersemi" Valkyr is Tenno-made, while Valkyr Prime is Orokin-made. There's bound to be similarities and differences, since they were made by two different factions.

Yes but gersemi was supposed to resemble valkyr p. Look at any prime and they resemble their tenno made version. With valkyr P thats not the case. 

She resembles her Corpus version much more then her gersemi.

[Weidro]

i have to agree with OP here
the prime design messed up the lore background
and yes it does resemble the corpus more than the tenno version
considering that the tenno version is supposed to be based on the prime/orokin version (lore wise) DE messed this up
I'm curious the see how they explain this and how they are going to fix the lore

but in my opinion its not too bad

seriously what did you expect from 6k mr fodder getting primed?
6k shiny mastery fodder!
and that's exactly what we got

[KiloFoxx]

what OP means is that Gersemi Valk was SUPPOSED to be a "Callback" (In universe) to Original "Valk" before she was experimented on and tortured by the Corpus and Alad V (Direct quote from the GAME ITSELF:) "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was the Gersemi Valkyr." (and from the Wiki for clarification) "The Valkyr Gersemi Skin is a Deluxe Skin for Valkyr that visually restores Valkyr to her original appearance prior to the Zanuka Project"

Valk Prime is, apparently, straight-up ignoring that because "OMG Primes lawl"

Valk, as she is, is mostly the RESULT of the Corpus mucking. Her rage is expressed at them and a result of that traumatic experience. if you look at the default colours and pattern for Gersemi Valk Skin, and for the "Skin" on Zanuka, it actually horrifyingly implies that Alad V RIPPED OFF VALK'S OWN SKIN TO COVER HIS PET ZANUKA. and while this is HORRIFYING to say the least, Valk's evolution as a result of this backstory gave her a LOT of character without really needing so say much at all, in fact I'd go as far to call her the MOST Characterized frame, even compared to the Questlocked ones like Limbo, Mesa, Chroma, Mirage, and Atlas. (Which are all guilty of NOT following the "Show don't Tell" rule of Storytelling that Valk followed amazingly well)

Valkyr PRIME SHOULD have gone the more Gersemi route, and possibly even altered her ABILITIES as it's implied (though not stated) that the obscene experimentation she underwent is WHY her abilities were the way they were. Having Valk Prime, the "Original" Frame built by the Orokin, not only keep the same abilities but even APPEARANCE-wise ignore the Gersemi skin is kinda a HUGE slap in the face to those of us who adamantly follow the Lore of the game. it makes no sense, and Honestly Valk NEEDS to be done one better. she deserves a break after all she's been through with Alad V.

[LightningsVengance]

If they add a tail and change up the helmet slightly it's all fixed.

[erny0507]

4 minutes ago, KiloFoxx said:

in fact I'd go as far to call her the MOST Characterized frame

I always thought that too. Also she has a voice.

Edited November 23, 2016 by erny0507

[Enemaro]

9 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

The Devs already mentioned briefly in the last devstream (here: https://youtu.be/mPPcQle4ud4?t=2856) that they know it's a lore challenge, it was a deliberate choice to go primarily with Vanillla Valkyr instead of Gersemi, and they are still workin on lore explanations for that.

That's actually just cringe inducing. "Working on lore explanation", there is one very obvious explanation. All of the Primes were made exactly the same: normal model + golden additions and minor changes + unique helmet. Who in their right mind will "just give" everybody the upgraded version of "Delux" skin?....

We hoped for super-cool Primed Feral Valkyr? Yes!

But we always suspected that we would get something like this one instead.

And i won't even rant. I'll bite this bull, because in my heart she's still The Coolest Most Badass and Sexiest Frame out of them all precorpus or postcorpus.

It's just the sad truth that words Lore and Quality always come after words Money and Business.

[Bronjun]

I can tell you right now Valkyr Prime has a pair of small wings which look like bat ones, and a tail too. 

[erny0507]

2 minutes ago, Bronjun said:

I can tell you right now Valkyr Prime has a pair of small wings which look like bat ones, and a tail too. 

both look nothing like gersemi's though.

[Bronjun]

9 minutes ago, erny0507 said:

both look nothing like gersemi's though.

Well, I would expect the designs to be different, especially if it is Orokin style. Paris Prime looks nothing like Paris except the quiver. More so for Lato Prime which is just a recoloured never released flintlock pistol. (Oh I wish that flintlock pistol is available in the game)

Edited November 23, 2016 by Bronjun
I envy grand masters XD