Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[Mak_Gohae]

55 minutes ago, Othergrunty said:

Maybe we should take a step back, forget all the pet theories we had established over the past 3+ years and look at her as if we see her and the other 2 variants for the first time

this is all based on the words written in the game.

This is yet another lore point that get ignored because the new thing they came up with that they like.

 

[folklore504]

I do wonder if that restraint device shown in the trailer, is a pre-view of an corpus version of the Grineer rampart.   Besides that the trailer doesn't really answer questions or clear much up.  Though it does give credence to warframes being independent entities, or at least having a personality of their own.   

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

Also the thing on Kitty P's arm, maybe is it to let her use Ripline?

[(PSN)Lowk721]

Considering the way Ballas was talking about Warframes, would anyone really put it past him to slap restraints on the one whose ability is "becomes a ball of vicious rage"?
Or maybe Ballas might have just thought it looked cool. Did you see the thing he put on Nxy's head? Or how Nekros's stomach looks like guts? The man has strange design choices.

8 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

no explanation as to why she uses her default tortures-by-the-corpus skin.

Are you saying that because of Gersemi? Because I feel like that could be explained away by the fact that Warframes have more variants beyond default and Primes. Rhinos for example have the temple guardians version.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

Are you saying that because of Gersemi? Because I feel like that could be explained away by the fact that Warframes have more variants beyond default and Primes. Rhinos for example have the temple guardians version.

But Rhino's deluxe skin has zero lore tied to it. 

[SenorClipClop]

Maybe Valkyr Prime is restrained when she's not sent out on missions, and those spots on her (very sharp) arms are still the best way for her to be restrained. I believe our new Trailer Prime is actually pretty telling, and we can draw some inferences if we want to make connections within the lore.

As we watch our kitty cat wreak havoc in the trailer, Ballas muses that sometimes the Warframes seem just barely under control, that they are savage and dangerous, even to their Orokin masters. In previous trailers he's sounded a bit more proud -- with Vauban, Saryn, etc, he was showing off their concepts, recounting the inspiration for their designs and their relevant uses. But with Valkyr here, Ballas sounds a little contemptuous, he seems to spit some of his words, and he's beginning to paint the Warframes in a more negative light. 

Quote

Less than their human seed, gnawing their limbs from the snare, devouring a banquet of suffering, obese with heat, and acid... and rage. .... That is why they will destroy us.

~ Ballas

Here, it seems that the Warframe Program's creator is beginning to see his creations as potentially dangerous, possibly loosening the grip of Orokin control, and he even predicts the Orokin Empire's violent collapse at the hands of the Tenno. So yeah, it's entirely possible that Valkyr Prime was also held in bonds by the Orokin.

[(PSN)Lowk721]

2 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

Here, it seems that the Warframe Program's creator is beginning to see his creations as potentially dangerous, possibly loosening the grip of Orokin control, and he even predicts the Orokin Empire's violent collapse at the hands of the Tenno. So yeah, it's entirely possible that Valkyr Prime was also held in bonds by the Orokin.

 

 

 

I'd buy that.

Why do these Warframes stir us so?
They burn with our lost desires, lost instincts, tenno-tame.. but only just.
Cast and hunted as game. Trapped and tortured, yet they remain animals.

If he considers them animals then leashing the one that you feel is just barely contained seems like a smart move.

3 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

But Rhino's deluxe skin has zero lore tied to it. 

They have like, 0.5 amounts of lore. They were originally called temple guardians.

[Kerberos-3]

You know, its really sad to see just how much DE has destroyed the Game's lore with regard to Primes, all for the sake of money. First Braton Prime(pre-rework), then Nova Prime, now Valkyr Prime. At this point, the entire definition of what a Prime is needs to be reworked.

[arch111]

They need to just say that the Experiment is a cache of prime-valkyrs who were altered to look corpus.

They need to say that Lotus line about torture leaving her adapt at killing is about the Prime.

Gersemi existed prior to the Experiment,  that's all we know.

***

Some here point out Ballas noticing how dangerous warframes are. I think this is false.

I think Ballas regained his lost humanity, his soul if you will, through the warframes and the Tenno. He had Margulis to thank for that redemption,  and I will not be surprised if he had a hand in the Tenno rebellion. He saw it coming just as he knew the Sentients were a threat but manipulated the 7 into sending them to Tau.

He most certainly knew about warframe nature since the beginning. 

"These aren't Dax soldiers Margulis. They are gholems posessed by devil minds!"

And that is after Transferance was discovered when a animalistic and full of rage proto-rhino was posessed by a Tenno at the labs. From that point on he knew how dangerous they were.

DE allso just told us warframes was once humans! That alone makes me convinced the first Tenno was using unique warframes, as in a Operator infected by Technocyte and becoming the weapon.

It explains alot. Their personalitys and movements are recorded templates in the Blueprints.

I am therefore thinking we will see a warframe being grown in the infested room inside the pod. Why else is it there?

[(PSN)DarkRebel_Dragon]

I personally see the three skins as Valkyr's evolution. The Gersemi Skin is Valkyr before the torture. The normal skin is Valkyr just after she escaped from Alad V. The Prime Skin is Valkyr coming to terms and accepting who she is and her role in everything. That's assuming that Warframes have some level of intelligence and are semi-self-aware.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Drago141997 said:

I personally see the three skins as Valkyr's evolution. The Gersemi Skin is Valkyr before the torture. The normal skin is Valkyr just after she escaped from Alad V. The Prime Skin is Valkyr coming to terms and accepting who she is and her role in everything. That's assuming that Warframes have some level of intelligence and are semi-self-aware.

The Prime is the Orokin Kitty. though the one thing that is missing from the Tenno one is the Ripline bracer. Maye the Tenno DID manage to sort of upgrade one frame?  and only one ability 

[(PSN)DarkRebel_Dragon]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

The Prime is the Orokin Kitty. though the one thing that is missing from the Tenno one is the Ripline bracer. Maye the Tenno DID manage to sort of upgrade one frame?  and only one ability 

The arm bracer could be for the rip-line, it would make sense. And I remember that when the normal Valkyr goes into hysteria, there is some energy coming from the sides of the arm band. It might just be a focusing tool. Because if the Lore is all true. Valkyr is channeling a LOT of energy when she is in hysteria. I can't do the testing now, but I would like to see if similar things are true for the Gersemi skin and the Prime skin.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Drago141997 said:

The arm bracer could be for the rip-line, it would make sense. And I remember that when the normal Valkyr goes into hysteria, there is some energy coming from the sides of the arm band. It might just be a focusing tool. Because if the Lore is all true. Valkyr is channeling a LOT of energy when she is in hysteria. I can't do the testing now, but I would like to see if similar things are true for the Gersemi skin and the Prime skin.

If it is well ... why didn't anyone see that before? 

[(PSN)DarkRebel_Dragon]

Just now, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

If it is well ... why didn't anyone see that before? 

I only noticed it when I would be mid-Hysteria when the mission ended. When I go hysteria, I am usually thinking; "KILL! KILL! KILL!" or "God dammit, another teammate down."

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

Just now, (PS4)Drago141997 said:

I only noticed it when I would be mid-Hysteria when the mission ended. When I go hysteria, I am usually thinking; "KILL! KILL! KILL!" or "God dammit, another teammate down."

And all the FashionFramers?  I mean I noticed it when look at art for the kitty

Edited March 13, 2017 by (XB1)Solargeo

[(PSN)DarkRebel_Dragon]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

And all the FashionFramers?  I mean I noticed it when look at art for the kitty

I meant the energy coming out of Valkyr's arm bands...

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Drago141997 said:

I meant the energy coming out of Valkyr's arm bands...

I know that but you would think fashion framers  would at least notice or think of the bonds  having some use. 

[Stoner]

15 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

You know, its really sad to see just how much DE has destroyed the Game's lore with regard to Primes, all for the sake of money. First Braton Prime(pre-rework), then Nova Prime, now Valkyr Prime. At this point, the entire definition of what a Prime is needs to be reworked.

Yup. And I was one of those people who believed having Valkyr prime would be wrong. 

I learned something from this; lore doesn't matter to them. Every warframes will get a prime. No matter what.

Seeing the devs giving zero sh!ts about their own game story is very sad. Which is why I decided to never come back to Warframe. 

[kgptzac]

1 hour ago, Stoner74 said:

Yup. And I was one of those people who believed having Valkyr prime would be wrong. 

I learned something from this; lore doesn't matter to them. Every warframes will get a prime. No matter what.

Seeing the devs giving zero sh!ts about their own game story is very sad. Which is why I decided to never come back to Warframe. 

Lore is created to give a background information on current story and conflict.  Warframe is an original IP, and the reason why back stories on certain things are intentionally left vague is whatever a new story is written, it must conform to the gameplay.

So far I've not seen any evidence suggesting that any existing non-prime frames did not have an Orokin variant before the empire's fall.  Not Nova, not Valkyr, and not even frames like Nidus; they all could have existed back in Orokin era.

For example, suppose the Glas Gambit story said that the colonists who harvest infested tissues for a living are so brilliant that they come up with an original warframe design that have never existed before (even though they are not tenno and could not use warframes).  If DE wrote the story in this way, then later on Nidus Prime comes out, and players are justified to complain about lore inconsistency.

To me personally, all frames had an Orokin predecessor is well supported by current lore, because the lore is built in a way to support DE releasing Prime variants for all frames.  I think a lot of self proclaimed lore hounds are getting triggered not because the lore is inconsistent (ie, requires actual retconning), but they are triggered because their interpretation of the material that's intentionally left vague was not disapproved by DE.

[Kerberos-3]

2 hours ago, kgptzac said:

Lore is created to give a background information on current story and conflict.  Warframe is an original IP, and the reason why back stories on certain things are intentionally left vague is whatever a new story is written, it must conform to the gameplay.

So far I've not seen any evidence suggesting that any existing non-prime frames did not have an Orokin variant before the empire's fall.  Not Nova, not Valkyr, and not even frames like Nidus; they all could have existed back in Orokin era.

For example, suppose the Glas Gambit story said that the colonists who harvest infested tissues for a living are so brilliant that they come up with an original warframe design that have never existed before (even though they are not tenno and could not use warframes).  If DE wrote the story in this way, then later on Nidus Prime comes out, and players are justified to complain about lore inconsistency.

To me personally, all frames had an Orokin predecessor is well supported by current lore, because the lore is built in a way to support DE releasing Prime variants for all frames.  I think a lot of self proclaimed lore hounds are getting triggered not because the lore is inconsistent (ie, requires actual retconning), but they are triggered because their interpretation of the material that's intentionally left vague was not disapproved by DE.

Really? No, just really? How ignorant can you be? The Lore for both Valkyr and Nova is very well established in that neither should have Prime forms, though for different reasons. I'll start with Valkyr, since her's is less convoluted.

The Codex entry for Valkyr very clearly states that her present condition, both physically and mentally, are a direct result of what Alad V did to her. Going by this simple fact, it is hardly unjustified to assume that, once upon a time, Valkyr was a very different frame, and guess what? We don't even have to imagine what that other Warframe would look like, because it exists as Valkyr's Deluxe skin, Gersemi. Therefore, asking for an explanation for the existence of Valkyr Prime is hardly wrong, seeing as it's existence is a major paradox in terms of the Lore.

As for Nova, this one is more tricky. As far as we know, the Orokin were a tyrant race. What does a tyrant fear above all else? Loss of control. Loss of control means loss of power, and that is never acceptable for any tyrant. But how does this connect to Nova? Quite simply, Nova's profile video clearly states that she was a result of the Tenno High Council's research, but her Prime is a paradox. Why? Simple. The definition of a Prime, as we know it, is the original version of a weapon or Warframe as created by the Orokin. However, Nova cannot have existed during the time of the Orokin. Why? Because the High Council wouldn't have existed, and they wouldn't have existed because the existence of a self-governing group of Tenno would have represented a major threat to Orokin supremacy.

[ArcariusAero]

On 3/12/2017 at 8:12 AM, Stoner74 said:

There's still no explanation as to why she has corpus restraints, no explanation as to why she uses her default tortures-by-the-corpus skin. 

*Insert huge facepalm here*

It's been established forever ago that those aren't restraints. You're just being plain ignorant at this point, the """"""""""restraints"""""""""""" on Valkyr Prime are ribbons for decoration and 'honor' according to the game.

[kgptzac]

2 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

The Codex entry for Valkyr very clearly states that her present condition, both physically and mentally, are a direct result of what Alad V did to her. Going by this simple fact, it is hardly unjustified to assume that, once upon a time, Valkyr was a very different frame, and guess what? We don't even have to imagine what that other Warframe would look like, because it exists as Valkyr's Deluxe skin, Gersemi. Therefore, asking for an explanation for the existence of Valkyr Prime is hardly wrong, seeing as it's existence is a major paradox in terms of the Lore.

What the f? There is no paradox at all.  You just refuse to accept DE's explanation that goes against your own interpretation of Valkyr's backstory.  In Orokin era, "Valkyr" looked like what we now know as Valkyr Prime (same logic applies to all Prime frames).  In contemporary times and before Alad V's torture, Valkyr looked like herself in Gersemi skin.  After the torture, she looked like what's the non-primed version of now.

See, it's not hard to reach a simple explanation from the most relevant facts.  It just requires you to drop as much as of assumptions and personal interpretations of the game's lore, however religiously you may believe in them.

2 hours ago, Kerberos-3 said:

As for Nova, this one is more tricky. As far as we know, the Orokin were a tyrant race. What does a tyrant fear above all else? Loss of control. Loss of control means loss of power, and that is never acceptable for any tyrant. But how does this connect to Nova? Quite simply, Nova's profile video clearly states that she was a result of the Tenno High Council's research, but her Prime is a paradox. Why? Simple. The definition of a Prime, as we know it, is the original version of a weapon or Warframe as created by the Orokin. However, Nova cannot have existed during the time of the Orokin. Why? Because the High Council wouldn't have existed, and they wouldn't have existed because the existence of a self-governing group of Tenno would have represented a major threat to Orokin supremacy.

This is more /facepalm material.  You need a reality check that the topic of discussion is official game lore, not your personal fanfiction which you seem to base your arguments from.

I watched the video profile for Nova, and there is nothing in it supports your claim.  Tenno defeated the sentients for the orokin, and was regarded highly by at least some of the orokin high commands.  The tenno culture and architecture were also distinct from that of the orokin (compare and contrast Dojo and Void tiles), which can only mean that the earliest tenno did have a degree of autonomy even under orokin control.  The game already stated that the Tenno did have a hierarchy in Orokin era, and it is only logical that some of the high ranking tenno formed a council, where they lead other Tenno under directives of the orokin command.

The irony is, that if you feel the entire video of the Nova's profile is bullsh1t and nothing in it can be considered canon, it still doesn't change the fact that Nova as a warframe could have been made in the Orokin era, to be known as Nova Prime, and later on manufactured and known as Nova (non-prime).

Anyway here I conclude my lesson on logical thinking.  I know folks who write fanfiction inside their heads believe some of the official text to be true, but cast other official text as false or ignore them completely.  Unfortunately those aren't what's being discussed here.

Edited March 14, 2017 by kgptzac
minor typo

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, ArcariusAero said:

It's been established forever ago that those aren't restraints. You're just being plain ignorant at this point, the """"""""""restraints"""""""""""" on Valkyr Prime are ribbons for decoration and 'honor' according to the game.

And you're too ignorant to make the link between Valkyr's bonds and the primed "ribbons". Valk has corpus links, same as Valkyr prime. Except they decided to call them "ribbons". 

[Aleksundar]

I want to say that valkitty prime was built after the original valkitty was captured/tortured. It would explain the symbolic bonds...

does that work canonically?

[Stoner]

34 minutes ago, kgptzac said:

What the f? There is no paradox at all.  You just refuse to accept DE's explanation that goes against your own interpretation of Valkyr's backstory.  In Orokin era, "Valkyr" looked like what we now know as Valkyr Prime (same logic applies to all Prime frames).  In contemporary times and before Alad V's torture, Valkyr looked like herself in Gersemi skin.  After the torture, she looked like what's the non-primed version of now.

Contradiction. 

" In Orokin era, "Valkyr" looked like what we now know as Valkyr Prime"

"In contemporary times and before Alad V's torture, Valkyr looked like herself in Gersemi skin"

How can that be then? Valkyr prime looks more post Alad V than gersemi. She has the same "gauntlets/restraints" or whatever you call them on both the prime and tortured version. There is a paradox.