Riven System is highly unrewarding and may lead to the downfall of warframe

[GinKenshin]

Just now, taiiat said:

and on the other side of the fence, being able to lock Stats just makes it easier for Players to get Multi-shot, Damage, and Crits on every single Riven Mod.

They should at least get rid of more RNG to certain weapons, like IPS on elemental weapons and fire rate on single shot or low mag weapons....these are just broken and add more RNG to these types of weapons (the biggest offender is the sentinel weapons, half of the stats don't work for it) 

 

 

the whole ptoblem I have with this is that DE said they wanna buff unused weapons with riven, but having to go through such a grind for weapons to just make them usable is just wrong. I mean, personally I love a lot of unused weapons and I'm willing to go through rivens, but a lot of people aren't 

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 hour ago, EyeLaikCheez said:

Keep in mind that these mods cost more than 10 capacity (~20 at max rank I believe)

Now why would anyone waste resources and time to make an awful weapon mediocre-decent?

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. "They released these mods in order to make weaker weapons more popular". Do you really think that? The trade chat is flooded with "WTB OP [weapon] Riven Mod" And as you can probably guess these things are going for hundreds of platinum right now, maybe more.

The prices have already plummeted. I know the situation the best, since I rode the trading wave all week long. The prices are not crazy anymore, since the meta weapons Riven mods have -40% modifiers and the non-meta weapons Riven mods have +40% modifiers. Nothing too OP anymore for the meta, pretty much like 2 mods instead of one.

[taiiat]

1 minute ago, GinKenshin said:

They should at least get rid of more RNG to certain weapons, like IPS on elemental weapons and fire rate on single shot or low mag weapons

excluding Stats that do literally nothing on some Weapons, absolutely. that basically just excludes Physical Bonus on Elemental Weapon and Magazine on Bows though, bassssically everything else functions.

[PanicPrime]

1 minute ago, achromos said:

How about people learn to deal with the occasional disappointment without being melodramatic?  Just because you aren't given EVERYTHING on day one, doesn't mean that the game is wrong it just means that these things are MEANT to take time and INVESTMENT.

 

Investment.  that's a dying word these days among gamers.

"The occasional disappointment" is logging in for 8 days in a row to get 2k endo. At that point, why bother at all? There are other games to play which respect my time far more than warframe now does, and are far more rewarding in both the short and long term.

And no, that isn't a "I'm quitting!" post. I made that post long ago in a feedback thread, and I'm under no illusion that anyone else cares whether I stay or go.

It's an observation that if players are starting to feel demotivated to play due to constant disappointment, are given no further reason to stay logged in after the 45 minute sortie, and don't feel the value of anything can match the mods that they don't have, then they are going to slowly stop logging in at all. They're going to stop giving DE money for what they feel is less important content, and they are going to stop recommending the game to others.

I stopped playing anything other than sorties which they can't do any more due to being locked out of them since TWW, and as a result the clan I'm part of have started looking for another game to play. The four of us are friends IRL, so plan on sticking together. That's another factor that hasn't been considered - when one person leaves they may take others with them indirectly.

 

As far as your comment about investment, I've invested plenty into this game. I've bought most of the prime packs (I think I missed vauban and loki), I would regularly buy platinum, most of the content in my account was purchased with platinum from other players.

The important factor there is that while I'm more than happy to spend money if I feel I'm getting some value, my time is absolutely not for sale. Time investment is for a breed of people who I will never quite understand. I appreciate that they exist, but I never have nor ever will be one of them.

[GinKenshin]

5 minutes ago, taiiat said:

excluding Stats that do literally nothing on some Weapons, absolutely. that basically just excludes Physical Bonus on Elemental Weapon and Magazine on Bows though, bassssically everything else functions.

At least on sentinel weapons then, since DE is planning on keeping them and a lot of people hate them 

 

if they were good then players might think twice about giving up on them. Plus these aren't exactly OP >.> 

[bejuizb]

1 hour ago, Venom-Snake said:

No, not really. Its like Arcanes: They are there, you want it? Good, it will change things up a bit. You dont? Good, it wont change a thing.

This is another "X will/is runing the game and it will/is dead" thread that happens every once in a while. Normally after every Major Update.

I figured as much. Doing 1 million damage and killing a target instantly doesn't change much compared to doing 500k damage and killing a target instantly. I fail to see the issue. 

[Naruchico]

This system isn't going away or going to get better DE is Obsessed with RNG....they have had thousands of chances to reduce RNG....every time a new system comes out it's just another RNG mess....I swear they sleep with dice on the brain and how they can add 50-100 more dice in the next update....It's getting disgusting and they refuse to change....

[Ailissa]

1 hour ago, ChasePanic said:

 I knew the game was about to enter its final year.

Not even close,

 

That has to be the most ridiculous thing i've ever read on these forums. 

 

37 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

Personally, I've lost all motivation to continue.

Then stop playing.

 

I had the same thing happen to me and left for over a year. I came back and it's fun again.

 

It's quite obvious you are not enjoying yourself and should not be playing. The game will do just fine without you forcing yourself to log in.

[PanicPrime]

2 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

Then stop playing.

Way ahead of you there.

Of course, "stop playing if you don't like it" isn't even remotely constructive. Way to go shutting down any opinion counter to your own.

Edited November 20, 2016 by ChasePanic

[achromos]

22 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

"The occasional disappointment" is logging in for 8 days in a row to get 2k endo. At that point, why bother at all? There are other games to play which respect my time far more than warframe now does, and are far more rewarding in both the short and long term.

And no, that isn't a "I'm quitting!" post. I made that post long ago in a feedback thread, and I'm under no illusion that anyone else cares whether I stay or go.

It's an observation that if players are starting to feel demotivated to play due to constant disappointment, are given no further reason to stay logged in after the 45 minute sortie, and don't feel the value of anything can match the mods that they don't have, then they are going to slowly stop logging in at all. They're going to stop giving DE money for what they feel is less important content, and they are going to stop recommending the game to others.

I stopped playing anything other than sorties which they can't do any more due to being locked out of them since TWW, and as a result the clan I'm part of have started looking for another game to play. The four of us are friends IRL, so plan on sticking together. That's another factor that hasn't been considered - when one person leaves they may take others with them indirectly.

 

As far as your comment about investment, I've invested plenty into this game. I've bought most of the prime packs (I think I missed vauban and loki), I would regularly buy platinum, most of the content in my account was purchased with platinum from other players.

The important factor there is that while I'm more than happy to spend money if I feel I'm getting some value, my time is absolutely not for sale. Time investment is for a breed of people who I will never quite understand. I appreciate that they exist, but I never have nor ever will be one of them.

 

Can't they just finish TWW or work towards it, really that quest isn't that hard and it isn't gear dependent.  If it's their MR then they should go and level other things up and raise it.  Maybe they should make it easier to obtain fresh Riven mods(?) and maybe they could make it so that the amount of Kuva spent on a mod is either capped or helps weigh the RNG towards more Meta/useful stats being added (+Damage, +Multishot, ect)

 

Yes you have invested 'plenty' into this game, I bought all the prime packs (except founders)  While most the stuff in my account is also purchased I have a wierd tendancy to attempt to unlock it the 'legitimate' way.

Time Investment in a game creates Value, a sense of Value that everyone can share if they put in ENOUGH time.  I appreciate that you don't have that much time, as for months on end I could be forced to work 12 hour days (Hence buying all the Prime Accesses), However, I enjoy the prospect of having "Goals"  My goal is to get several decent Riven mods for rather niche weapons and see if they can stand up to the Meta Weapons like Soma Prime and such.  If these Riven Mods were just like the other ones?  Just drop, pick up, and you are done... then I'd be able to go into Trade and just scoop up several dozen and everyone would have them.

Players have been asking for 'something' to do, well this is something.  Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth just because it isn't catering specifically to one set of people.

[Astatane]

I don't really get the point of this riven mods.

Oh, sure, they are there to encourage the use of weapons that are rather underwhelming... but since riven mods are a pure stat change why not just buffing the stats of those weapons?

You know... changing a few values a bit instead of creating an entire system that needs to be developed and maintained just to achieve the very same thing, just worse because of the RNG it might not even have that effect?

[xXDeadsinxX]

I agree with OP.

[achromos]

Just now, Astatane said:

I don't really get the point of this riven mods.

Oh, sure, they are there to encourage the use of weapons that are rather underwhelming... but since riven mods are a pure stat change why not just buffing the stats of those weapons?

You know... changing a few values a bit instead of creating an entire system that needs to be developed and maintained just to achieve the very same thing, just worse because of the RNG it might not even have that effect?

Because this system ACTIVELY weighs the popularity and use of the weapons in game, and as a result increases or decreases the mods values which can buff and nerf the weapons damage with the Riven Mods based on popularity.

I find that bit of it quite intuitive.

[PanicPrime]

10 minutes ago, achromos said:

Players have been asking for 'something' to do, well this is something.  Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth just because it isn't catering specifically to one set of people.

But all it gives us is a reason to log in for 45 minutes a day to do the sortie, receive primed disappointment, then log off.

That isn't really something to do, it's pure time gate lottery.

I want a level 60+ endless defence mission where the chance of a riven reward increases 1% for every 5 waves, then resets to 1% when one drops.

In the grand scheme of things it may take me 10 hours of that to get a riven mod, but I can sink all 10 of those hours on a saturday to guarantee myself a drop, rather than spread it out in 45 minute blocks over 2 weeks. I don't feel compelled to stay logged in and do anything else after my 45 minute sortie speed run because the disappointed feeling i get saps me of any motivation to stay and do anything else.

So far I'm up to 8 days in a row now with just 2k endo rewards. Even if they do change it, all I'll get is 2k endo for 2 days, then a lens on the 3rd.
I feel a system like this does more harm than good.

Alternatively, put them up on the marketplace for 50-200 plat each and I'll be more than happy to sink money into getting a few.

Edited November 20, 2016 by ChasePanic

[Astatane]

2 minutes ago, achromos said:

Because this system ACTIVELY weighs the popularity and use of the weapons in game, and as a result increases or decreases the mods values which can buff and nerf the weapons damage with the Riven Mods based on popularity.

I find that bit of it quite intuitive.

As opposed to just making the weapons equally viable and let personal preference decide instead of the usage being dependent on how good or bad the weapon is (or how lucky you are)?

Doesn't really sound worth spending dev time on.

[Ailissa]

15 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

Way ahead of you there.

Of course, "stop playing if you don't like it" isn't even remotely constructive. Way to go shutting down any opinion counter to your own.

I do apologise, I wasn't aware "i've lost all interest" required an in depth counter.

 

That wasn't a "stop playing if you don't like it", you blatantly said you've lost all interest.

 

Carrying on playing a game you've lost all interest in would be a ridiculous thing to do. I wasn't shutting down an opinion different to my own, I was passing on what should be common sense.

 

If I wanted to post something constructive I would have started a conversation with someone who made a constructive post to begin with. I didn't, I picked your post with it's self important drivel.

 

You want to play a game you have no interest in then you do you hunny. I'll just stop replying before I cut myself on all your edge. 

[achromos]

1 minute ago, Astatane said:

As opposed to just making the weapons equally viable and let personal preference decide instead of the usage being dependent on how good or bad the weapon is (or how lucky you are)?

Doesn't really sound worth spending dev time on.

Eh, it's already done so maintaining the system is (in the short term) probably easier now.

 

4 minutes ago, ChasePanic said:

But all it gives us is a reason to log in for 45 minutes a day to do the sortie, receive primed disappointment, then log off.

That isn't really something to do, it's pure time gate lottery.

I want a level 60+ endless defence mission where the chance of a riven reward increases 1% for every 5 waves, then resets to 1% when one drops.

In the grand scheme of things it may take me 10 hours of that to get a riven mod, but I can sink all 10 of those hours on a saturday to guarantee myself a drop, rather than spread it out in 45 minute blocks over 2 weeks. I don't feel compelled to stay logged in and do anything else after my 45 minute sortie speed run because the disappointed feeling i get saps me of any motivation to stay and do anything else.

So far I'm up to 8 days in a row now with just 2k endo rewards. Even if they do change it, all I'll get is 2k endo for 2 days, then a lens on the 3rd.
I feel a system like this does more harm than good.

Alternatively, put them up on the marketplace for 50-200 plat each and I'll be more than happy to sink money into getting a few.

Actually if you go into trading the price of Veiled Riven mods is actually within that price range (50-200) so, unless you specifically want it in the market place...  That's kinda covered by trade chat.

I do agree that we need more ways to get riven mods in game without trading, absolutely.

[PanicPrime]

17 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

That wasn't a "stop playing if you don't like it", you blatantly said you've lost all interest.

Gold star for you! However you just admitted you had no intention of any form of constructive communication, so there's little point in addressing anything you say. gg.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, --Q--Ascended-Seraphim said:

I farmed 100k worth of kuva and blew them on cycling mods to a maximum of 10 cycles each.

Some times you get 3 stats or the occasional 4. but most of the time you'll only get 2 stats. Pure luck. Didn't get anything particularly worthwhile from the grind.

There seriously is a need for players to lock in the stats that we want. Consistently rolling it over and over trying to strike the lottery feels like running headfirst into a wall hoping that the wall gives way before your skull breaks.

There is no sense of progression.

Only pure RNG. 

Which brings me to the next point.

You get random OP stats on rifles for now. Riven mods for Pistols, Melee, warframes, sentinels, pets will come soon enough. RNG and power creep galore.

And it's starting to feel like the Auction House in Diablo 3. Where it becomes more rewarding and efficient to gain top end gear through trading rather than actually playing the game and gaining progress.

 

 

In other news, Valkyr Prime as well the unvaulting of Ember Prime and Frost Prime are projected to set sales records for the holiday season...

You have a valid point, and I strongly suggest a more traditional weapon specialization system be implemented to give alternative choices, but decrying the death of the game is a bit melodramatic.

Edited November 20, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[5HV3N]

I just don't like message conveyed by inclusion of kuva into this riven mod circus.

"You were asking for any real use for stockpiled resources, so we introduced brand new resource with tedious gimmick, but unlike anything before this one has nigh infinitely deep sink. Good luck trying to do anything meaningful with those few milions of nano spores."

I'm not buying into it.

[--Q--Ascended-Seraphim]

The whole system honestly needs a SERIOUS review. It currently does not benifit anyone except the chosen few smiled upon by RNGesus himself. 

Making the commoners either resort to trading and p2w or get left behind the RNG determined powercreep.

The current Riven system does not give players any choice, any chance to progress, or anything to work towards.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I agree with the sentiment of this thread.  Luckily the devs have committed to not balancing the game around these mods so that's good.

That being said where's Baro with our primes point strikes already?  While primed mods were a kind of power creep at least everyone who genuinely worked hard could get one.... (ducats, endo, credits, etc.)

[Second_Measure]

4 hours ago, achromos said:

Because this system ACTIVELY weighs the popularity and use of the weapons in game, and as a result increases or decreases the mods values which can buff and nerf the weapons damage with the Riven Mods based on popularity.

I find that bit of it quite intuitive.

The problem is, when certain older weapons gain popularity through new event/syndicate/missions mods and DE decides that their Riven bonus needs to be toned down in response to it, you eventually wasted your time on them again.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Second_Measure

[Noobverest]

Power creep is necessary in any game.

 

If every weapon released in the last 3 years were equal to or worse than lato prime, skana prime, and braton vandal...Would anyone still bother getting/using new weapons except for MR?

 

I still havent found a replacement for orthos prime because nothing beats the long reach + attack speed. All the polearms and staves are just MR fodder for me.

 

P.S: did you guys die IRL before riven mods were a thing, and were recently ressurected by Dr. Frankenstein just so you can play warframe?

Edited November 20, 2016 by Noobverest

[Shiichibukai]

This is one hell of a clickbait