The War Within: 19.1.0 Ash Revisited

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

3 minutes ago, chaotea said:

As someone who doesnt main ash, its probably because you get ash's in mission who just constantly bladestorm. Its powerful. but really boring to be in the same game.

Remember aswell that Mesa used to have a 4th that was just as strong, and that got nerfed much quicker.

Mesa's wasn't a direct nerf like Ash's was, Mesa was changes to allow people to target her 4 so she can now avoid nullifiers and kill priority targets, the old 4 was press it sit back and hope, now you can control the randomness to a degree which is actually quite helpful, Ash is also like this, but is far to slow at doing it because you cant aim while doing the ability like you can with Mesa.

 

[LightBriite]

10 minutes ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

While I agree he's not making sense, Ash's DMG was actually severely hampered because of the time between his 4's is now much larger, meaning his overall DPS is far lower.

Edit: for the players most favorite Warframe, Ash came first in the number of votes, so ash hate is probably much lower than people realize.

while 4 builds generally take less skill, this games skill sealing is relatively low in the first place with the most amount of it being in builds and strategy.

pressing 4 to kill many enemies is the same as clicking with a Tonkor to kill many enemies.

Dude, Tonkor Dmg falls off heavily compared to Straight up slash dmg. You do the play testing before you say things like that please. 

[NovusNova]

4 minutes ago, Yuteruka said:

can i buy Nikana ryu skin after getting Ash koga skin?

i mean i didnt know that there was the bundle for them before i just got koga skin through arsenal.

i still like to get Nikana ryu skin.

i understand the bundle is cheaper but i dont understand why you cant find the way to get them separately.

The Ryu skin is only in the bundle, it can't be brought separately. 

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

5 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

Dude, Tonkor Dmg falls off heavily compared to Straight up slash dmg. You do the play testing before you say things like that please. 

Tonkor is literally the 2nd most powerful weapon in the game, all damage falls off at some point, even Ash's because slash scales off of the source of DMG. I honestly do not know which damage type would fall off faster out of the two of them but they are both extremely powerful for quite some time so I feel its a relatively fair comparison (when compared to old Ash at least).

Edit: One thing I didn't consider was that Ash takes time to cast his blade storm to kill all those enemies, so Tonkor would at least attack faster so that also needs to be taken into account (again talking about old Ash)

Edited November 28, 2016 by I-Am-MoMoJoJo

[Anceto]

2 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

Wrong, you can kill enemies, before he can even attack them, I've played with Ashes since the rework and he isn't nearly as much a kill as before, matter of fact that's one of the main complains Ash players have whined about. Ever heard of seeking Shuriken? It's a great thing that works just like Banshee's Sonic Fracture. 

you sure you played with ashes even after rework? Because i've sprayed ignis all over a marked grineer and even when he's overcooked he's still not dead till the ash finishes his Bladestorm: The Movie (Directed by M.Bay, M.Night Shamalamadingdong and J.J Lens Flare Abrams). And waste a modslot when i could use that for others? Sure, might as well throw away some plats or syndicate points while i am at it! /s

[LightBriite]

2 minutes ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

Tonkor is literally the 2nd most powerful weapon in the game, all damage falls off at some point, even Ash's because slash scales off of the source of DMG. I honestly do not know which damage type would fall off faster out of the two of them but they are both extremely powerful for quite some time so I feel its a relatively fair comparison (when compared to old Ash at least).

No, it's actually not, I legit did the play testing on this like 2 minutes ago, Tonkor dmg falls off super fast, compared to Ash's Slash Procs on a level 100 gunner. PLAYTEST IT. 

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

2 minutes ago, Ferrick said:

you sure you played with ashes even after rework? Because i've sprayed ignis all over a marked grineer and even when he's overcooked he's still not dead till the ash finishes his Bladestorm: The Movie (Directed by M.Bay, M.Night Shamalamadingdong and J.J Lens Flare Abrams). And waste a modslot when i could use that for others? Sure, might as well throw away some plats or syndicate points while i am at it! /s

I am unsure when enemies invulnerability takes place but I can say for certainty that they do have it at some point, I know that at least when Ash is directly assassinating something at the time that they are invulnerable and when they are marked they are not invulnerable, I just don't know about the time in between

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

1 minute ago, LightBriite said:

No, it's actually not, I legit did the play testing on this like 2 minutes ago, Tonkor dmg falls off super fast, compared to Ash's Slash Procs on a level 100 gunner. PLAYTEST IT. 

Tonkor can easily 1 shot those guys, it's actually super easy, maybe higher levels it would fall off but not 100

[LightBriite]

1 minute ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

Tonkor can easily 1 shot those guys, it's actually super easy, maybe higher levels it would fall off but not 100

Then by all means show me a link/video to showcase this, cuz you just SAYING so, makes me think you're just stretching the truth. 

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

8 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

Then by all means show me a link/video to showcase this, cuz you just SAYING so, makes me think you're just stretching the truth. 

I'll be honest, I do not play nor like either Tonkor or Ash and I'm not about to spend ages Formaing both just to make a point, nor am I going to look for a video on it, all I can tell you is that the info is out there and there is a reason both Ash and Tonkor are so widely used for damage, what I can also tell you is that even mediocre weapons that have been moded properly can easily kill lvl 100's heck my Tigris can 1 shot them even with a poultry 2 Forma, if I had a good way of screenshoting that I would but I honestly shouldn't need to.

Edited November 28, 2016 by I-Am-MoMoJoJo
I'm a dummy and can't English well XD

[-NightNeko-]

 

Why They dont take out the 2k endo and place same more forma or nitain extract ?

For sameone like me i dont like to select the forma instead the prime parts or whait 4 or 5 H to be able to get anather nitain extract - is really borring

Edited November 28, 2016 by DarkBladeMaster18

[LightBriite]

3 minutes ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

I'll be honest, I do not play nor like either Tonkor or Ash and I'm not about to spend ages Formaing both just to make a point, nor am I going to look for a video on it, all I can tell you is that the info is out there and there is a reason both Ash and Tonkor are so widely used for damage, what I can tell you is that even mediocre weapons that have been moded properly can easily kill lvl 100's heck my Tigris can 1 shot them even with a poultry 2 Forma, if I had a good way of screenshoting that I would but I honestly shouldn't need to.

And I'll tell you AGAIN, you're going off of what a lot of other people say, and if you don't wanna do the research yourself then you honestly shouldn't say ANYTHING about it. Oh and FYI, Tonkor got a nerf awhile ago sooooo saying it's the 2nd most powerful weapon in the game is a huge, mis-informed statement to say the least. 

[Yuteruka]

20 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

The Ryu skin is only in the bundle, it can't be brought separately. 

then why not buying the bundle with paying balance??

i do understand the bundle is special but it should be better if they keep up with you after buying the one thing by mistake.( like prime access)

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

1 minute ago, LightBriite said:

And I'll tell you AGAIN, you're going off of what a lot of other people say, and if you don't wanna do the research yourself then you honestly shouldn't say ANYTHING about it. Oh and FYI, Tonkor got a nerf awhile ago sooooo saying it's the 2nd most powerful weapon in the game is a huge, mis-informed statement to say the least. 

I'd actually like to know how it has been nerfed because it looks the same to me (no seriously I'm curious), having reliable people who min max many weapons and collectively test weapons and rank them is far better than me doing it myself, why should't I go off of other peoples conclusions when I know they have had more experience with those things than me, I have seen Tonkor one shot high lvl enemies many times, that doesn't mean I have to be the one doing it, also I am not completely going off of other peoples information, I personally have used weaker weapons and easily dealt with lvl 100+ enemies, Tonkor is stronger than weapons like Latron wraith, and Braton/Burston Prime all of which I have personally used and am 100% sure that Tonkor is more powerful than.

[LightBriite]

7 minutes ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

I'd actually like to know how it has been nerfed because it looks the same to me (no seriously I'm curious), having reliable people who min max many weapons and collectively test weapons and rank them is far better than me doing it myself, why should't I go off of other peoples conclusions when I know they have had more experience with those things than me, I have seen Tonkor one shot high lvl enemies many times, that doesn't mean I have to be the one doing it, also I am not completely going off of other peoples information, I personally have used weaker weapons and easily dealt with lvl 100+ enemies, Tonkor is stronger than weapons like Latron wraith, and Braton/Burston Prime all of which I have personally used and am 100% sure that Tonkor is more powerful than.

Tonkor no longer procs headshots apon explosions, headshots are the reason why the thing was so pants on head stupid OP. Secondly, you are saying you know people that say they play test, but then again I could say I'm Hugh Hefner. Literally everything you're saying is so worthy of dismissal simply cuz you say anecdotal and that "you know some people" I could say Stradavar is a one shot weapon still wouldn't mean I'd be right or know what I'm talking about. You're refusing to do testing yourself, and insist that "Cuz thhis one guy said it" is a valid way of justifying that Tonkor is OP, it's not as OP as before and has been that way since 18.5. And using an example like in a mission with other players doesn't mean much considering that's not a controlled environment to conclude the actual dmg output. 

[minidelight]

1 hour ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

Tonkor can easily 1 shot those guys, it's actually super easy, maybe higher levels it would fall off but not 100

After the nerf to critical headshots on explosions the Tonkor with 5 forma will not one shot one lv 100 corrupted heavy gunner, you need like 3-5 shots to kill one,maybe you can 1-2 shot one with frame damage buffs or 4xCP

Edited November 28, 2016 by minidelight

[heavychameleon]

3 nitains as sortie rewards now?  Ehh... can't really say that's good.  

 

Apart from that the salt and QQ from press-4-to-win lovers is great.  If you really wanna sell your Ash just because that's really the only way you think he's good then no one with half a brain will care.

[-PlutON-]

Pls return old Blade Storm!

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

6 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

Tonkor no longer procs headshots apon explosions, headshots are the reason why the thing was so pants on head stupid OP. Secondly, you are saying you know people that say they play test, but then again I could say I'm Hugh Hefner. Literally everything you're saying is so worthy of dismissal simply cuz you say anecdotal and that "you know some people" I could say Stradavar is a one shot weapon still wouldn't mean I'd be right or know what I'm talking about. You're refusing to do testing yourself, and insist that "Cuz thhis one guy said it" is a valid way of justifying that Tonkor is OP, it's not as OP as before and has been that way since 18.5. And using an example like in a mission with other players doesn't mean much considering that's not a controlled environment to conclude the actual dmg output. 

aaah I see where it got nerfed, yea that's pretty big but also makes sense, still the pure Dmg + crit + radius makes it very powerful and even though that part is gone I maintain that it is still the 2nd most powerful weapon in the game, no I do not personally know these collective testers but reputable lists of weapon power is not hard to find, besides that is an actually terrible argument, are you one of those I must see it for myself to believe it people, because all information is here say unless ya test it, if that is the case then that means NOTHING I say will be believed even if I do say that I tested it myself, relying on reputable sources is not a weakness in an argument. Seeing it in a mission in a squad is actually the best test in my opinion because it shows how something will perform in the most demanding situations. While a controlled test is good, it does not show the full potential because in an actual mission there are many more things that need to be taken into consideration and make a fundamental difference to the power of a weapon that are not seen in a controlled environment.

[Emulad0or]

Good, Ash got fixed. Can we hope for Simulor next please? 

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

31 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Good, Ash got fixed. Can we hope for Simulor next please? 

I feel I'm being a little too active here, but if they removed the explosions from it, I think it'd b a lot more balanced, then maybe I'd actually use it cause I feel like a #$&(% using it atm.

[Anceto]

2 hours ago, I-Am-MoMoJoJo said:

I am unsure when enemies invulnerability takes place but I can say for certainty that they do have it at some point, I know that at least when Ash is directly assassinating something at the time that they are invulnerable and when they are marked they are not invulnerable, I just don't know about the time in between

afaik they're only vulnerable during the marking phase, after that they're invulnerable, no real way of knowing cuz i barely see any ash/prime in PUGs after the rework

[I-Am-MoMoJoJo]

36 minutes ago, Ferrick said:

afaik they're only vulnerable during the marking phase, after that they're invulnerable, no real way of knowing cuz i barely see any ash/prime in PUGs after the rework

aah thx good to know, I had an issue with the Raptor Sortie the other day with an Ash trying to 4 it constantly and it seriously hampered everyone elses dmg on it, as soon as he stopped when we asked, Raptor melted.

[_Raiklar_]

Please return the original Blade Storm, No Clones. 17 seconds. and True damage. At the very least get rid of the CLONES. Please.

[Punnilingus]

4 hours ago, LightBriite said:

 

Firstly, nothing of what you said made any sense. Secondly, Ash is one of the most hated amongst the community, and not only that this rework actually changed NOTHING in regards to dmg other than allowing players to choose who to mark. You ask on behalf of ash 4 to win players that aren't even good and now are angry over a change that didn't do anything other than make him be less of a kill @#&*(. 

 

What are you talking about? Ash now does less damage (due to BS stopping after 1, 2, or 3 hits instead of 18 total) than before and to top that all off, it takes nearly twice as much time to target/activate as it did before, essentially cutting it in half - his dps. 

Then I read later where you said "am playtesting."

Wait a minute -- you came in here making a bold statement that his dps was untouched yet hadn't played him post-death yet? No wonder people are so hateful here and on Steam. Jeez. 

You know what else was nerfed? His overall survivability. What else was nerfed? His energy efficiency in total. What else was nerfed? All of his abilities' effectiveness because now in order to survive, you must focus a lot of your mod-slots on his health and shield, whereas before his survivability was so high you were able to mostly ignore how weak he is in total.