The War Within: 19.1.0 Ash Revisited

[Hawk40kz]

Don't know if its been said as not going to read 22 pages lol. But I really like the ash rework, coming from someone who didn't like him much before. The only gripe I have is still being locked into bladestorm. Can we please get it so it sends out clones to kill marked enemies. If that was to happen I can see him becoming a go to for myself. I just dislike being stuck in animation, which makes me useless team player if someone goes down or life support is needed. All the rework has done is slow his time to kill, I thought people wanted the camera changed or am I mistaken?

[BradKing]

16 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

• Fixed Smeeta's Charm ‘Doubled Pickups and Affinity’ buff not working as intended and doubling a number of things that were unintended. It now properly doubles pickups: Resource, Health, Energy, Affinity, Credit and Ammo (previously it would).

Aw, while it is fun to have a companion with you for style, this now completely makes it fashion-frame only. The only redeeming feature was the double up for syndicate pick-ups, void traces, kuva, etc. Even with a high class build no companion can compete on usefulness with any of the sentinels, with vacuum, medi-ray and the fact they respawn after you revive. The damage output is also significantly lower on companions w.r.t. any effective use. You really had me sold with the Smeeta Charm, even though I needed to keep poring credits into keeping it going, but now it's just not worth the hassle.

Nn sweet kitten, into stasis you go :/

[fbiazi]

3 hours ago, BlueEagel777 said:

Why is everyone always complaining? Nobody even says thank you for the Jordas Virdict fixes that was being complained about for months?

 

Not everyone is complaining, only the ones that likes to play WF. An a lot of people (that indeed don't care for play) are saying "thak you".

I would say "thank you" IF DE has made things better, fixed bugs and so, without touching things that were working nicely.

I used to like to play:

• Valkyr -> Nerf;
• Mag -> Nerf;
• Saryn -> Nerf;
• Nova -> Nerf;
• Trinity -> Nerf;
• Mirage -> Nerf (may be only this one has to be nerfed a bit, right after launch.

Now Ash got a nerf. Whats next?

Also, the Void keys used to be far better than the current void traces thing.

Arcane helmets used to be cool, but they were vanished from alerts or any other source.

Another bad thing was the rarity of resources like Oxium, Jadeleaf, Dragonfly and Threshcone plants and mod that now are showing a lot in alert missions. I gatered a lot of the resources while them were hard to get, I was prosperous, valuable for any Clan, then them made it easy to get, I had become a bare normal player, like a casual one.

The most needed fixes, that I don't expect, are giving back these warframes abilities, the exact way and limits they where/had before the nerf.

It is sad that a lot of persons doesn't like to see other ones to be well and wishes them to lose something. Worst is DE listen to these bad people.

DE is changing warframe, that I used to like a lot (A LOT), into a thing that I don't really want to play. I get in only to see if there is something interesting, not to play and have fun. This is getting boring. :-(

I has buyed platinum with money before anyone asks.

 

[Ichigo]

16 hours ago, WeavValkyrija said:

So much Butt hurt today. I wonder how many people actually went and tested this change before raging on the forums. I feel like they glossed over the animation being one of the bigger problems on ash's 4 but besides that I kind of like these changes. 

1. I no longer have to spend 100 to kill one or 2 guys.

2. I can now pick off enemies like ancients without having to spend 100 energy while hoping I make it to the ancient. While at the same time not killing anything that is linked to the ancient.

3. its not really that hard to press 4 paint a few enemies and press 4 again.

4. From a none Ash point of view it no longer locks enemies for ash only once they start using bladestorm. One of the things I always found annoying when I had a ash in my squad.

All in all, I don't think its a bad change

What kind of build are you running that makes bladestorm cost 100 energy? And why would you use it on 1-2 enemies? Crowd control is for crowds, and you can select which enemy is guaranteed to be hit by pressing 4 over them, you don't have to pray that you'll reach a certain enemy. All of the points you try to make are severely flawed.

[Elenoe]

 

1 hour ago, HitmanSeth said:

*Goes and spams EV trin/ Desecrate Nekros/ Pilfering Hydroid/ Radial Disarm Loki/ Wof Ember/ Peacemaker Mesa/ Hysteria Valkyr/ Iron skin Rhino/ Exalted Blade Excal*

lets be legit here: they are EXCLUSIVELY used for one ability.

not sure where are you from, but some of those are my mains.

I don't use Loki's Radial Disarm, no use for it, but I use all three other skills. Being invisible, getting free finishers, being the fastest frame in my collection so even bullet jumps slows me, and being able to teleport literally everywhere I need (there goes barriers, detectors and jump puzzles), Spy/Rescue sortie no matter level or condition can't be failed with him. Again, never used Radial Disarm. It makes mobs.. "unrest". Spoils 500% bonus and makes FTL travel much harder.

Valkyr's Hysteria. As she is my favorite I put time to learn trick or two with her and still learning. I use custom elernal war build. Speed and armor you get on her is insane (still waiting for my Prime to complete, stat-wise she will be even stronger). Hysteria IS what makes her powerful (and cute), but if you only use this one skill, you nerfed her capabilities pretty much already.

You forgot Rhino Stomp and group buff? If you need to survive tough situation, you pick Valkyr. If you need damn strong CC while still surviving, you pick Rhino. Once again, hardly "push one button" frame.

Don't play Excalibur anymore, since Rhino+Valkyr are better at everything IMO. I used blind a LOT (allows finishers so even as MR1 I could kill lvl 60 event mobs I could not touch with my barely modded bo anyway).

I don't play Nekro, but always seeing him using Shadows AND desecrate. 

You are right with Ember. You use other skills only when needed. The thing is, she only works on mobs under lvl 50, ideally under 30. She does virtually nothing any higher. That's why I love her. For all those low levels where hunting mobs one by one, or even targeting them and "waiting" is annoying. Ember is great statue hunter (at least mine, she loves it). But she is and always will be "a convenience" rather then OP (have hope for her bigger sister Saryn). 

I'm not Ash user. Picking him only for boss adds cleaning service and Fatal teleport. So I don't truly "understand" those changes. New way is slower and it failed to remove "TV mode". It can't target mobs behind walls anymore but it can target mobs widely spread instead. Doesn't feel that bad. More like useless change since TV mode remains.

[HitmanSeth]

I wish to apologise for being a a bit of an idiot with my previous comments. I hadn't actually tried the new Ash at that time...

 

I have just finished building a new Ash mod setup, with 2 of his augements, and it kicks &#!. He is noticably more fun now, now that pressing 4 all the time isnt required.

So, I guess that this rework basically made Ash fun. Surprisingly fun.

(Mods for those who are curious:

[Steel Charge], R8 Transient Fortiutude, Stretch, Fleeting Exp., R9 Primed Continuity, R9 Narrow Minded, Constitution, Fatal Teleport + Seeking Shuriken )

Edited November 26, 2016 by HitmanSeth
Mis-spelling

[Nes_cafe]

RIP ash-_-

[vinx909]

smokescreen while running? F*** yes. ash, you'll be my main again

[MX_62]

ASH another frame for the pile of non using one

what a pitty i had great fun with ASH

another bad choice to nerf that bad

[Yuramaru]

Old Blade Storm: Press 4 -> Watch the animation
New Blade Storm: Press 4 -> Mark enemies for a few seconds -> Watch marked enemies, being killed by other players -> Press 4 again -> Watch the animation

Now what the hell did that fix? It's still the same outcome. You just made it completely useless and added more energy costs on top of that.
If you made it a quicktime event, it would at least require some skill to use (Which would make it more fun by the way).

Aside of that, I support all the other changes.

PS: I read something about a "rework" on Exalted Blade. I dare you to "fix" an already nerfed ability -_-
Fix the enemy scaling and keep the Warframes enjoyable, instead of nerfing them into their graves. 
 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Yuramaru

[MorticianKrieg]

18 hours ago, --Q--NinjaMann said:

hehehehe, I've waited for soo long for ash to be nerfed to oblivion.

Why?! :o

[SquareSnail]

Meh out of ten.

Sortie rewards feedback was ignored.

Ash ult... even simple instant cone executed by clones while ash could do other things would be better. And that took me like 30sec of thought.

[Phantom-6]

See the thing is...The ash "Nerf" actually encourages players to use his other abilities.  Generally speaking when I played ash pre "nerf" I didn't spam 4 all the time.  Sure i did initially, but that's boring.  There was no fun in it.  Basically this changes nothing for me with ash, except I've effectively received a new ability that requires some testing to see exactly how i'm going to use it.  

Good Job DE.  I love the "Nerf."  No matter what is done in this game there will always be salty players.  Don't let them get you down.  Seriously though, get rid of the 2k endo reward.  I still have received nothing but 2k endo drops since TWW, with the exclusion of the riven mod I got on the first day.

[GrooveZet]

How about Shuriken? Combo counter, melee mods affection, no?

[Adniwhack]

Well, let me tell you what I think of ash's rework overall:- 

1. His smokescreen change is something that should have been done years ago, but it is a good change anyway.
2. Teleport changes will not be visible at any point of the game. 

3. His bladestorm is something that should be buffed right now. While the control over who to kill is a mechanic I think DE won't roll back at any case and something I sort of am okay with(I do play Ash, if you may ask), leaving the damage as it is is a straight ridiculous action. Ash was appreciated mainly due to his area clearing ability, and at that point, the damage was all right because Ash will keep on attacking unkilled enemies if any more shots werre remaining. However, with the three strikes mode, the use of bladestorm is just straight useless. Suggestions I can give is to give a damage buff to bladestorm anyways, or give some other proper mechanic that will help Ash to survive.

Altogether, Ash who was an 'ASH - HOLE' in many players' views because of his bladestorm became a laughing stock, not an outright interactive improvement. I have no other problem with press 4 to win other than the scumbag ember, who destroys everything in her path with WoF. I hope DE will actually fix this Bladestorm nerf, although I still like my Ash. 

[MorticianKrieg]

47 minutes ago, Yuramaru said:

Old Blade Storm: Press 4 -> Watch the animation
New Blade Storm: Press 4 -> Mark enemies for a few seconds -> Watch marked enemies, being killed by other players -> Press 4 again -> Watch the animation

Now what the hell did that fix? It's still the same outcome. You just made it completely useless and added more energy costs on top of that.
If you made it a quicktime event, it would at least require some skill to use (Which would make it more fun by the way).

Aside of that, I support all the other changes.

PS: I read something about a "rework" on Exalted Blade. I dare you to "fix" an already nerfed ability -_-
Fix the enemy scaling and keep the Warframes enjoyable, instead of nerfing them into their graves. 
 

True! Ash was an awesome frame and now I totally don't enjoy playing it! Now witth all lthe targeting it's easier to loose combo damage multiplier, whilst standing and targeting makes you completeley vulnurable (unless you use smoke screen or try to mitigate dmg with melee) and it takes few seconds to scope few mobs that can lead you to death on high level missions before you even finish targeting! All these re-works, updates are only amed to nerf good stuff ffs... And sortie rewards?! Nitain?! Really?! o_o
I was just about to get back to WF after a long break (thinking things got better after I tried Mesa), purchase few skins and BAM! this update totaly killed any will to play! Oh well, guess I'll go spend them money somewhere else.

Edited November 26, 2016 by MorticianKrieg

[LazerusKI]

I actually like the new Ash, there are just a few things that could be better.

Shuriken: Cost 25 Energy for 2 Hits.
Well...Bladestorm costs 30 Energy (20 from stealth) for two even stronger hits.
Shuriken could need a buff here.

Smokescreen: I love it. the change gave him much more mobility

Teleport: I wish it would work on Grates too, would be nice for some spy missions

Blade Storm: Currently it costs too much energy for the marks in my opionion. Maybe this could use the same effect that Fatal Teleport has, giving back 50% of the used energy on a kill?

His new skin is also pretty nice, i never liked Ash Prime that much, but this one looks interesting

[Phantom-6]

To everyone that thinks his bladestorm got ruined.  It didn't you just need to learn how to use it.  It's just fine the way it is, it doesn't need a buff.  Throw it up run around invisible and kill things.  let it go when you've got a lot of targets marked or when you need it as an "Oh S#&$" button.  It's intended to be augment to your play, not be your play.  It's not something you can spam, honestly it never should have been.

[Jordan285]

Was once, now twice pressing 4... why?... unclear... Ash was ninja, became sniper. Not sniper even, aimer. Ninja neen ninjas skills, hiden, fast and deadly. Twice pressing 4 — too long!

 

So. Now, if a lot of enemies we need to fast press 4 twice and hope for the work arcane... Just increase the duration 2-nd skill. If +299% strength, invisibility only 1 sec. Lol! No time for mark! Or first pess 4 and Ash automatically becomes invisible...and we do not need to hurry.

Teleport to containers is useles in 99% missions. Still prefer Loki for it. Teleport to anywhere it would be interesting but imbalance... If put a mark and after teleport there (press 3 twice) or hold 3 or/and use right mouse button (so press once), but to the enemies immediately?...

 

Well... now we try the different builds and practicing on low levels mobs only.

 

But idea is interesting! Make Ash stealthy like Loki and deadly like what he is now. The REAL NINJA! This will be COOL! Of course, need a balance.

[vinx909]

i agree that bladestorm needed a lot of work, but from what i have tried so far the new version doesn't work all that well with the fast pase action of warframe. i'm saying this as someone who loves a build that hurts bladestorm a lot. i'll have fun with the improved smokescreen and still great suricans, i just think that bladestorm still needs a bit more work.

[Ronin074]

I tested and retested the new ash and have to say that my Black tide build has successfully translated in the new ash as well.

 

IMP first of all fatal teleport seems totally bugged.  As only attacks one in some 5 fatal teleports.  Dev you should look closely in this.

 

As for bald storm.  Although the ability to choose the targets is nice it is quite difficult to do.  Sincerely I prefer the original blade storm but this version is not tragically bad. The new system seems to be a bit more costly and a bit nerfed in it power.  I would say make in 6 energy points per mark and each mark should have the killing power of the original kill.  Usually with my build I killed high level enemies in one kill now I need 3 marks.  This is clearly a hidden nerf. All in all I do not bother if it is the old blade storm or the new but one mark should be equal to one original blade storm kill.

 

on a side note.  My compliments on the new Ash Kuga and nukana skin.  Now that is the way to go in design.  I bought them both.   I again repeat improve you in house design because lately it has gone way down.  Take the bard frame as an example that thing is horrible.  redoit.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Ronin074

[Titanscorpion]

THX DE!U keep fckn ap all our works,and all op characters in this good game bc of those crying machines!I want to see their faces,when they cant solve any problem without ash old 4th abilities.Im playing w this game from u8,and i lost a lot of good builds bc of nerfs!congratulations!!!New gamers need to learn to make a good builds,and stop crying!Aya...and what about Excal spammers???I started to thinking on delete this game...old gamers works will be worthless bc of the new gamers!THANK YOU AGAIN!!!
 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Titanscorpion

[1Trini]

     I feel like this rework did nothing but make ash more annoying to use, his fourth ability still has that annoying camera jumping around effect. Plus now we have to run around marking targets, which would not be so bad if that annoying camera jumping around was not there. The only real useful thing that came from this rework would be being able to cast smoke screen while jumping. 

[Irishspongie]

14 hours ago, stormsasuke180 said:

I'm happy. I can use Forma for my Dojo much faster now. And Nitain helps for Wukong :D

With all due respect to the OP - we've all been through that mid-level phase where we're crafting/building like mad and absolutely need forma and nitain - this is a perfect example of why adding them to the drop tables for something that's meant to be endgame content is, frankly, nonsensical.  I might be an outlier in having amassed 500+ nitain, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of active players at my level already have more than they'll need for the next six months of content that's coming our way.  Same for forma; if memory serves I'm crafting my 112th for the stockpile, and expect most high level players to be in a similar situation.

If you want to give players the opportunity to pick up 3 nitain, put them in as a reward for invasions.  Let players who need them opt-in to the resource, not force it upon those of us who have already built and researched everything that uses it.  Adding it to sortie rewards as "an option" is either a very, very poor cover-up for an attempt at diluting the reward table (in which case, just add in detonite injectors / fieldrons / mutagen masses / 1000 ferrite and be done with it) or else an incredibly idiotic decision by a game designer who doesn't actually play the game.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Irishspongie
Adding in some extra scorn for this design decision.

[AnkerZ]

Huufftt :/

Now ash can't kill anything

RIP Ash