Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Dragazer]

On the topic of Smoke screen, can we finally get back the consistent melee stealth damage multipliers for Ash only?

Atm Stealth melee damage multipliers only work on the 1st melee strike on an enemy and is lost when you touch the enemy.

A huge issue I find with this, is that this 1 hit only favours heavy weapons more that deal the most dmg per hit and really screws over the light fast melee weapons that deal their damage over multiple hits.

Not only that, but touching the enemy loses your stealth damage meaning short range weapons like the daggers and fists get screwed over even more.

 

2 years ago, the multiplier used to be constant whenever Ash or Loki where invisible providing a great melee buff.

I just thought it would be nice to bring it back just for Ash only in order to differentiate him more from Loki as a offensive focused melee frame.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Dragazer

[DEATHLOK]

There should be a polling tied to active accounts, so this is not yet another case of a vocal minority pretending to speak for the majority. I'd love to know what the majority of players prefer Bladestorm to be—not just those who work these forums.

[Azuset]

2 hours ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

Only Fury/Primed fury and/or Quickening ( if you channel before bladestorming ) affect it

With and Without primed fury it's like day and night, with primed fury & quickening i noticed less difference compared to just using primed fury , still an extra 20% speed at the cost of efficiency, not worth the hassle for me , primed fury is enough.

Not every one has primed fury. Not every one has primed mods to blow out there kit. Primed stuff is supposed to be for going the extra mile it was never intended to be a must have mod slot. 

How does the normal Ash fair with no primed mods? 

That is the Ash we need to be discussing. 

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

I'm sure this was brought up before but I did not read all the comments and just want to give my two cents: 

If the problem was "not doing anything during the Bladestorm animation" this change did nothing to fix that.

HOWEVER, the mechanic is cool and I would like to see it implemented on other parts of the game. Maybe weapons, but I would personaly prefer to see it on Archwings Odonata Seeking Lasers and Itzal Drones.

e.g.: 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by (PS4)leonidasx666
Visual aid added

[(PSN)LeonidasxGGG]

Someone said: "Give it to Glaives". It has been done before... And with great success. #aproved

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by (PS4)leonidasx666
Posted the same thing twice

[TheOnlyWarBear]

I highly doubt this among possibly many other Ash threads will be seen and ignored because the sea of Ash complaints has grown strong.

However, I do find that DE deserves more than just a complain, and more of an actual solution. This thread is meant to do just that with the help of other players willing to give real feedback and not just complaints like "DE, you messed up Ash." or "DE, I hate it."

Time to be productive:

 

Now I am going to start with the main complaint (So it would seem) for Ash: Bladestorm

It used to be you press one button, wait about 5-15 seconds or more depending on mods and enemy count, and you sit back and enjoy a bite of your pop tart before press 4 again.

What changed? NOW, we press 4, wiggle the mouse, press 4 again and continue eating our bowl of cereal.

 

DE said that:

On 11/25/2016 at 11:51 AM, [DE]Megan said:

We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Blade Storm.

To be perfectly honest, from what I have played (and that has been nothing but Ash since he came out with his changes), I feel more restricted in a way. Before, I pressed 4 and was locked in a nauseating camera that flew across the room rapidly, sometimes to the point of not being able to tell what exactly was happening. Now, the exact same as previously mentioned happens, but I have to mark first what I want to kill by getting locked on a sickening camera angle.

 

It seems much more restricting than it does "participatory" as DE claims. 

 

So, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION:

I have seen various ideas, many that had terrible feedback when put alone, or great but needed that extra "oomph" we all desire. If I remember correctly, DE (Probably Scott) said that Ash would instead send out his clones to do the attacking while Ash was still able to move and shoot. This idea allows for more "participatory" applications. Many would say that would make Ash no better than Ember (The current argument for why Ash "sucks"), but to each their own. One of my propositions is to make it so (if Ash did sent out clones) that the clones would draw fire and be "killable" by enemies. During the duration of the ability, Ash could have some type of passive. (Harder to see, invisibility, weapons damage increase, etc). 

 

Anything is up for debate and discussion of course. This whole post is about fixing what we believe is broken.

 

The next thing I have seen is Ash's Shuriken. This is in my opinion the most lack luster first ability in the came, both in effect and in appearance. Some find the auto aiming qualities of the ability annoying, and a lack of control for Ash. What would be better is that the Shuriken goes wherever the reticle is pointing. Should that be at an enemy, then it will follow, should an enemy try to doge or evade or run in any fashion. Any other circumstance (Crates, broken fans, etc) should just allow the shuriken to go exactly where a player is pointing.

Another point on the Shuriken is that only two are thrown at any given time. This is rather an odd number, as most things come in "three" or even one. But to see only two fly out seems almost wrong. Why? The number 3 likes to satisfy, in my opinion. But so does the number one, especially when the Shuriken would work (according to what I have suggested) based on where the reticle is pointing. One the star makes contact with an enemy, some sort of effect should occur, rather than just affecting the one or two enemies of its current state. Volt's 1 affects multiple enemies at once. Rhino's Charge can bulldoze 17 corpus into the small spaces of their boxheads. Even Oberon (who we all know is... well Oberon) is capable of hitting multiple enemies at once, causing radiation damage among a few enemies.

The point I am making is that this ability was untouched, and if Ash is going to be reworked, EVERYTHING should be looked at in some way shape or form.

 

Ash's second ability, Smoke Screen. I have no complaints really, maybe other than a longer stun time. But all suggestions are welcome of course.

 

One of my favorite powers of the game is Ash's Teleport. While there is a little more freedom for using the Teleport on anything with health, not every single crate or object with health works very well, since one a crate is destroyed you can't teleport to it any longer. I do not currently know the reason why, but why isn't it that Ash could teleport wherever we point? Simple question? I feel that's all the ability really needs. Freedom to teleport anywhere. Loki can put his decoy anywhere can he not (I know, not a hugely great reason for wanting full freedom to teleport where we wish)?

 

What I have written, is just a little skim of what has been thought up, and there is always the freedom to say Ash's old way was perfect, or the new way is just how I like him. That is fine, I accept your opinions about how he shouldn't or should be changed. I have simply given my own opinion, and along with everybody else (Assuming you have read this far and would like to reply) have respect for others.

 

What do you believe the fate of Ash should be?

Please be respectful and mindful of your opinions. Don't bash, don't trash. Have class.

[UrielColtan]

On 11/25/2016 at 4:04 PM, Arandabido said:

I think I'd rather have smoke screen being able to target all enemies in range when in Mark mode. Kinda tired of fixing everything with Exalted Weapons. Teleport or Shuriken could also help with targeting enemies

Getting tired of the measely 5 exalteds out of 30 Warframes?

That's pretty odd. If anything, more Warframes need to have them, with passives. Adds more of a feeling of ultimate ascension, flexibility, and most importantly, interactivity.

Edited December 1, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, UrielColtan said:

Getting tired of the measely 5 exalteds out of 30 Warframes?

That's pretty odd. If anything, more Warframes need to have them, with passives. Adds more of a feeling of ultimate ascension, flexibility, and most importantly, interactivity.

It weird seeing people not want ash to have an exalted weapon, despite the fact that ash is the first warframe with physically attached weapons to his frame.

[Achromatic.]

1 hour ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

It weird seeing people not want ash to have an exalted weapon, despite the fact that ash is the first warframe with physically attached weapons to his frame.

The thing I hate about Exalted Weapons is I'm forced to either mod for the Ult or the actual melee weapon itself. At least with current Ash I only have to worry about having Primed Fury on there.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

15 hours ago, Tengu_Bruxo said:

I'm of the opinion that this animation should be removed, allow the clones to do all the work, which free up Ash to continue to free flow around the map, helping team mates, reviving frames, and finishing objectives. being more of a team player, instead of "look how cool I'm! it took me a total of 12 seconds to eliminate 8 target, sweet right?"

So you want to remove his hidden blades? Okay...theres no use to have a weapon if were not gonna use it personally right?

15 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Not a very convincing reason to keep pace killing cutscenes. Just incorporate those blades into a revamped 4th ability, without these cutscenes, just as Excalibur's Exalted Blade, Valkyr's Hysteria claws or Wukong's Primal Fury Staff, require no cutscenes.

That would be a huge nerf to ash. he will no longer have a nuke ability. 

Excal has a cc & nuke skill, wukong staff has great reach, valk has 2 cc skill where 1 of them is also a buffer. Ash? All his skill is 1 to 1, no buffer, shuriken can only attack 2 targets, teleport is only 1 to 1 skill. In short, your suggestion could kill ash more than hes already now.

[UrielColtan]

1 hour ago, Kunsumption said:

I highly doubt this among possibly many other Ash threads will be seen and ignored because the sea of Ash complaints has grown strong.

However, I do find that DE deserves more than just a complain, and more of an actual solution. This thread is meant to do just that with the help of other players willing to give real feedback and not just complaints like "DE, you messed up Ash." or "DE, I hate it."

Time to be productive:

 

Now I am going to start with the main complaint (So it would seem) for Ash: Bladestorm

It used to be you press one button, wait about 5-15 seconds or more depending on mods and enemy count, and you sit back and enjoy a bite of your pop tart before press 4 again.

What changed? NOW, we press 4, wiggle the mouse, press 4 again and continue eating our bowl of cereal.

 

DE said that:

To be perfectly honest, from what I have played (and that has been nothing but Ash since he came out with his changes), I feel more restricted in a way. Before, I pressed 4 and was locked in a nauseating camera that flew across the room rapidly, sometimes to the point of not being able to tell what exactly was happening. Now, the exact same as previously mentioned happens, but I have to mark first what I want to kill by getting locked on a sickening camera angle.

 

It seems much more restricting than it does "participatory" as DE claims. 

 

So, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION:

I have seen various ideas, many that had terrible feedback when put alone, or great but needed that extra "oomph" we all desire. If I remember correctly, DE (Probably Scott) said that Ash would instead send out his clones to do the attacking while Ash was still able to move and shoot. This idea allows for more "participatory" applications. Many would say that would make Ash no better than Ember (The current argument for why Ash "sucks"), but to each their own. One of my propositions is to make it so (if Ash did sent out clones) that the clones would draw fire and be "killable" by enemies. During the duration of the ability, Ash could have some type of passive. (Harder to see, invisibility, weapons damage increase, etc). 

 

Anything is up for debate and discussion of course. This whole post is about fixing what we believe is broken.

 

The next thing I have seen is Ash's Shuriken. This is in my opinion the most lack luster first ability in the came, both in effect and in appearance. Some find the auto aiming qualities of the ability annoying, and a lack of control for Ash. What would be better is that the Shuriken goes wherever the reticle is pointing. Should that be at an enemy, then it will follow, should an enemy try to doge or evade or run in any fashion. Any other circumstance (Crates, broken fans, etc) should just allow the shuriken to go exactly where a player is pointing.

Another point on the Shuriken is that only two are thrown at any given time. This is rather an odd number, as most things come in "three" or even one. But to see only two fly out seems almost wrong. Why? The number 3 likes to satisfy, in my opinion. But so does the number one, especially when the Shuriken would work (according to what I have suggested) based on where the reticle is pointing. One the star makes contact with an enemy, some sort of effect should occur, rather than just affecting the one or two enemies of its current state. Volt's 1 affects multiple enemies at once. Rhino's Charge can bulldoze 17 corpus into the small spaces of their boxheads. Even Oberon (who we all know is... well Oberon) is capable of hitting multiple enemies at once, causing radiation damage among a few enemies.

The point I am making is that this ability was untouched, and if Ash is going to be reworked, EVERYTHING should be looked at in some way shape or form.

 

Ash's second ability, Smoke Screen. I have no complaints really, maybe other than a longer stun time. But all suggestions are welcome of course.

 

One of my favorite powers of the game is Ash's Teleport. While there is a little more freedom for using the Teleport on anything with health, not every single crate or object with health works very well, since one a crate is destroyed you can't teleport to it any longer. I do not currently know the reason why, but why isn't it that Ash could teleport wherever we point? Simple question? I feel that's all the ability really needs. Freedom to teleport anywhere. Loki can put his decoy anywhere can he not (I know, not a hugely great reason for wanting full freedom to teleport where we wish)?

 

What I have written, is just a little skim of what has been thought up, and there is always the freedom to say Ash's old way was perfect, or the new way is just how I like him. That is fine, I accept your opinions about how he shouldn't or should be changed. I have simply given my own opinion, and along with everybody else (Assuming you have read this far and would like to reply) have respect for others.

 

What do you believe the fate of Ash should be?

Please be respectful and mindful of your opinions. Don't bash, don't trash. Have class.

The shuriken locking onto enemies is one of the things it can keep, its a power, not a mere secondary weapon like Hikous or something, it loses some distinction making it like a basic throwing knife, that cost energy. Just presenting less reason to use it over a secondary throwing knife or secondary in general, or multiple other Warframe projectiles at that point.

No one complains about Nyx's bolts locking on to enemies, or Volts lightning chaining other enemies or Excal and Atlas auto aiming into nearby enemies. You are atleast on the right track with letting a shuriken hit more than a single enemy though, otherwise there is no point to using it over a mere firearm with punch through if it just flies straight and has no utility beyond damage.

 

Shuriken of course needs to be buffed in both base and proc damage, possibly with the help of weapon mods also effecting them. Also some cc utility, I like the concept of letting them rag doll enemies, to emphasize the ability' description. Maybe make it have utility with other powers like damage being increased or distanced enemies being covered in a cloud of smoke and suffocating while using it with smokescreen.

The changes to teleport are underwhelming and one should not have to justify zipping around freely for what is supposed to be a swift ninja and when the likes of Wormhole or Nezha's free teleports exist or when free dashing with Slash Dash or Wind Tail exist. Targeting specific enemies/teammates/items should only apply to farther jumps than a base distance of a free teleport.

 

Then we got Bladestorm, which I feel is less efficient than just fatal teleporting at this point. The marking might as well just be combined with the Teleport ability as an optional toggle, though preferably without the annoying cutscenes playing the game, while Ash gets a new fourth, in the vain of an interactive exalted.

Similar to how they just combined the concept of Excal's Super jump with his Slash Dash and moved his fourth to his 3rd ability.

 

Ash's energy pool/efficiency are also in dire need of being increased. Other squishy frames tend to at the very least have this, CC, or solo defense capability to fall back on. Not so much with Ash. People suggest using Smokescreen but it's not justifiable with the low energy pool and when its duration is so short, even with Max duration. Loki's invisibility last longer, he also has a substantially larger energy pool. Loki also has CC on top of that. Every other frame with similar ability, such as Wukong or Ivara's stealth, also have longer lasting invisibility, and Ivara even has more use in teams with her stealth in that she can also make team mates invisible, meanwhile Ash needs to take up with an augment that lets him do such a thing in an even worse way. Smoke Screen at best, has a less than one second stagger to make Ash stand out, which is not enough.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

So you want to remove his hidden blades? Okay...theres no use to have a weapon if were not gonna use it personally right?

That would be a huge nerf to ash. he will no longer have a nuke ability. 

Excal has a cc & nuke skill, wukong staff has great reach, valk has 2 cc skill where 1 of them is also a buffer. Ash? All his skill is 1 to 1, no buffer, shuriken can only attack 2 targets, teleport is only 1 to 1 skill. In short, your suggestion could kill ash more than hes already now.

How about we keep the marking system, but instead only clones do the bladestorming, and make it where teleport automatically does a finisher using one of the bladestorm animations. I know this isn't very helpful, but at this point anything will be better then current bladestorm right now.

[_Rue_]

now he's basically slower mesa.

When enemies are too low, team kills em all before ash can do anything, when the team is getting overwhelmed, ash still can't clear the room.

Making bodies vanish doesn't even make sense since he doesn't get any stealth multipliers for his skill.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

20 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

How about we keep the marking system, but instead only clones do the bladestorming, and make it where teleport automatically does a finisher using one of the bladestorm animations. I know this isn't very helpful, but at this point anything will be better then current bladestorm right now.

I have said this before in here:

Ash signature weapon is his hidden blades, its like wukong staff, excal exalted blade, mesas dual peacemaker. It has to be an ULTIMATE, move BS animation to teleport is fine, even excal & wukong has other skill than ULT where they use their signatures briefly, but its always part of their ult. Ash must follow this suit. So his ULT must also use hidden blades, having ONLY the clones to do it IS NOT the same, its like saying that I have a pen, but i'll let someone else write for me...so why do i have a pen if im not gonna write anything by myself?

You have to come up with something where ash could use his hidden blades as his ult.

Edited December 1, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Sargathan]

Very displeased about ash rework.

Smoke Screen is awesome, granted.
His 4 however feels atrociously slow to use, the doubletab mechanic (to me) is counterintuitive, needing to stay on target for half a second to get it to 3 marks just adds unnecessary time before bladestorm can actually be used. Locked into animation still, makes no difference.

Failed to kill a lvl50 heavy gunner because i had it marked only once.

To kill groups there is little reason (and NEVER even remotely enough time) to use his ulti with teammates present.
For priority targets teleport+dagger is faster and stronger.

For some more positive suggestions:

• multiple marks per enemy need to go, they need to be marked max instantly at first glance.
• need an augment to add stealth time when killing an enemy with bladestorm.
• not needing to mark enemies manually but defaulting to power range around ash.

4k hours game time, most played frame: ash, by no means the only i play but certainly one of my favorites.
Now his singular purpose is to unlock Riven mods if they happen to be the 'avoid detection' ones. At best.
Worst stealther with no actual utility after this rework, by far.
I do like the concept of marking enemies, but in this iteration and for powers in general it does not work for me at all. Bladestorm has not been just nerfed but removed from the picture totally in any gamemode that includes any of the following: teammate(s), fast pace, no zenurik.
While his 4 still abbrevates to BS, i shall resume a more commonly used reference for that.

 

Sorry for the hate here, still loving warframe and all the work you guys do, which for the overwhelmingly most part of it is incredible.
But as far as i am concerned, my favorite frame now is perma stealthed.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

I have said this before in here:

Ash signature weapon is his hidden blades, its like wukong staff, excal exalted blade, mesas dual peacemaker. It has to be an ULTIMATE, move BS animation to teleport is fine, even excal & wukong has other skill than ULT where they use their signatures briefly, but its always part of their ult. Ash must follow this suit. So his ULT must also use hidden blades, having ONLY the clones to do it IS NOT the same, its like saying that I have a pen, but i'll let someone else write for me...so why do i have a pen if im not gonna write anything by myself?

You have to come up with something where ash could use his hidden blades as his ult.

Hmmmmmmmm, hoooow about DE revert bladestorm back into its original state, but when we cast 4 twice we leave bladestorm, or make bladestorm into an exalted weapon that drains energy over time. smoke screen increases ash's mobility by X%/or decrease the energy drain and when you teleport to an enemy ash's clones target X amount of enemies in X range from the initial enemy. I don't flipping know.

[Reygund]

It would be interesting to see more warframe abilities that directly affect the other 3 abilities. Equinox's night and day forms gave them a lot more versatile than most frames because they essentially had 6 abilities instead of 4. I think Ash's ultimate should be similar, where it instead augments the next ability cast, so:

Shuriken - Hits more targets, gains punch-through

Smoke screen - Hits larger area?

Teleport - What Bladestorm used to be

Of course, ability augments already exist as mods but I think this could be a solution to the debate.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Reygund

[TheOnlyWarBear]

What if... we make Ash's blades come out and we are able to move around and stab things kind of like Valkyr and Exaclibur. There is a cost for teleporting. New set of melee attacks and moves or finishers?

[UrielColtan]

On 11/30/2016 at 5:28 AM, Gendarme said:

So this is an attempt to streamline the way Ash functions as a frame and give him clear cut abilities. And then present the player with options for different play styles through auguments, which is the main purpose of this post, a discussion about auguments and their function in Warframe.

The way I see it is as an oportunity to give frames options for modifying their style of play. Providing the player with ways of modifying the way their abilities work, instead of being straight up upgrades. In my view auguments should come with benefits as well as drawbacks so that they arent a straight up must haves, but simply modifications.

Now, for this to work well, auguments should probably have separate slot per ability and come with no energy cost. Implementing a system with benefits+drawbacks and then applying them to the way current modding works would work against the whole concept. Players would simply slot in mods that straight up benefit them, instead of crippling their warframes by wasting slots and energy on auguments that come with hefty limitations.

Without further ado, on to the concept:

 

---

Shuriken

Hurls a shuriken which deals high damage and applies a strong slash proc to a single target.

Auguments

Power Throw  <%2

 

 

 

There was no upgrade. His stats and other abilities didn't benefit enough to justify his best ability being nerfed and still keeping the annoying non-interactive cutscenes. Better way to change his play style would be to actually improve his other abilities and stats, removing the cutscenes, and moving marking to his 3rd as an optional tog, not just prioritizing conditions that some other frames don't even have to deal with in simular situations. The best idea you have there is giving augments their own slot. Augments should not be straight up corrupted mods with conditions though. Too much priority on conditions is actually what makes for narrow minded play styles. We would still only be using specific powers to place on our Warframe like back in the old days if we stuck to stagnating conditions that pideonhole you into doing a limited amount of things.

Edited December 1, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Messaiga]

After playing Ash more after the initial few days following his rework, I think Ash's rework was a big improvement to his Smoke Screen and Teleport, but I feel that Shuriken was left in the dust among these changes and Blade Storm really only serves to do what Shuriken does, but at lower cost and higher damage.  At his core, Ash is essentially the embodiment of an "assassin" Warframe.  He utilizes short-term stealth and mobility to kill priority targets, escape, then slash apart the trash mobs with shurikens and melee.  I'd say my biggest issue with Ash currently is while he can now do the former well, the latter still lacks.  Before the rework, it was mostly the opposite (as a result of high strength/efficiency builds ignoring duration in favor of hacking everything to bits).  The common link between both?  The terrible action sequence ultimate known as Blade Storm (also his shurikens don't really do anything right now that Blade Storm cannot).

How to resolve this?  Make Shuriken useful and outright replace Blade Storm's current function.  Shuriken is outclassed by the reworked Blade Storm.  Both do damage and inflict a slash proc for more damage, but Blade Storm costs less per target, does more damage, and does finisher damage rather than slash damage.  I think Shuriken could be an enjoyable and useful ability to use, being able to be used for more than just damage.  In contrast, Blade Storm at its core is hard to fix, is boring and unsatisfying to use (or watch), and bears extreme similarity to teleport (which could serve a similar function).

Example Change-Set (numbers are always able to change, look at the design rather than the numbers):

Shuriken - 

• Benefits from stealth multiplier.
• Casting Shuriken will throw 1/1/2/2 shurikens.  
• Holding Shuriken will mark targets, costing X energy for each target marked beyond the initial cast.  After releasing Shuriken, Ash will throw a shuriken at each marked target.  Ash Throws 8 Shurikens each second.  Cannot recast Shuriken while shurikens are being thrown, but Ash may mark targets for the next cast.
• Now impales enemies to walls if killed on-hit, as advertised.
• Seeking Shuriken: No longer shreds armor.  Instead, Seeking Shuriken causes Shuriken to always inflict a headshot and to blind enemies hit by Shuriken for 1.5/3/4.5/6 seconds.

Smoke Screen - 

• Stagger lasts a bit longer.
• Casting Shuriken on enemies staggered by Smoke Screen will knock them down.

Teleport - 

• Can be casted on a wall to teleport to targeted wall and automatically wall latch.
• When cast on an enemy, Teleport will only teleport him to them.  Holding Teleport on an enemy will perform a finisher upon arrival.
• Costs 50 energy when cast on an enemy.
• Fatal Teleport's auto-finisher is removed from the augment (as it has been implemented into base function).

Blade Storm - 

• Completely reworked.
• Ash summons 2 Shadow Clones to assist him.  These Shadow Clones move with Ash, strike out at additional enemies in front of Ash when performing melee attacks, throw Shurikens at enemies targeted by Ash for 20/30/40/50% damage, and will perform finishers on additional targets (in proximity to the primary target) when Teleport is cast and held on an enemy.  Clone attacks count toward Ash's combo counter.
• Cost: 100 energy.
• Duration: 11/14/17/20 seconds.
• Rising Storm increases Ash's combo counter duration by 2/4/6/8 seconds while Blade Storm is active.

The goal of this rework is simple:  All of Ash's abilities are relevant and have clear use cases from one another while maintaining a theme for him and making him useful for a team.  He still can't AoE things to death like an Ember or Nova, but he can do it well enough.  It also eliminates the problem of Blade Storm as it is currently: an unsatisfying ability with little player input.  You highlight enemies, then they take damage and die (hopefully).  

The augments serve only to enhance the preferred play-style of someone's Ash.  If you prefer eliminating and subduing packs of enemies, Seeking Shuriken fits.  If you want to help your team, Smoke Shadow.  If you prefer deleting the tough enemies, Fatal Teleport.  If you just want to hack everything apart with melee attacks, Rising Storm.  

Edited December 1, 2016 by Messaiga

[UrielColtan]

15 hours ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

So you want to remove his hidden blades? Okay...theres no use to have a weapon if were not gonna use it personally right?

That would be a huge nerf to ash. he will no longer have a nuke ability. 

Excal has a cc & nuke skill, wukong staff has great reach, valk has 2 cc skill where 1 of them is also a buffer. Ash? All his skill is 1 to 1, no buffer, shuriken can only attack 2 targets, teleport is only 1 to 1 skill. In short, your suggestion could kill ash more than hes already now.

 

If I can already kill faster in interactive real time than with the pace killing cutscenes, then it's not a nerf. Your vision of Ash seems too stuck to how Basic *@##&#036; his other abilities are and how restricted and narrow minded his 4 is.  I suggested that an exalted like state give him new abilities and passives and also suggested more buffs and attributes to his other abilities.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Disaeo]

This thread is full of constructed opinions and thought, I wasn't quite expecting that but I'm really happy people care about balance. My only concern is that DE won't read any of our opinions and let BS exactly how underwhelming it is right now. I hope I'm totally wrong.

[Racter]

Hold to start marking, tap to attack, hold again to stop marking. Scrap the three mark system, buff the base damage by 1.5-2x and attack speed by ~1.5. Add a (small, non-intrusive and non-scaling) targeting reticle along the lines of Peacemaker to limit the amount of random mouse sweeping we have to do to mark things on slightly different elevations. Keep the cost per marked target system.

 

What we have right now is, in literally every way, inferior to guns, melee, and other frames abilities. Ash in his current state is a bad joke, there is absolutely no reason to use him right now.

[K4r4k4s4]

50 pages omg. and after 5 days not a single word from devs? Ash will stay crippled forever?

[TheOnlyWarBear]

34 minutes ago, K4r4k4s4 said:

50 pages omg. and after 5 days not a single word from devs? Ash will stay crippled forever?

Maybe they are evaluating over 50 pages of suggestions and constructive opinions to make Ash what the community really wants him to be.