Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is such an exaggeration. This is why DE ignores this thread. I and many other players do extremely well with Ash. The whine about BS really boils down to "I can't kill faster than Ember on the starchart, waaaahhhhh" yet, I go into sortie and can dispatch multiple heavily armored enemies in no time.  

A frames abilities shouldn't be designed around whether or not it can kill mobs faster than Ember on the starchart. It's one of the most powerful and highest scaling abilities in the game. 

And you completely missed my point. 

[Hypernaut1]

12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

And you completely missed my point. 

No, you miss the point of BS. Not being able to insta-nuke trash mobs is not a flaw.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

No, you miss the point of BS. Not being able to insta-nuke trash mobs is not a flaw.

Look most frames are capable of killing multiple enemies with their 4 throughout the star chart and do not require a "phase" to prepare before. But Ash is the exception?!

It's senseless and counterproductive in this horde type of game setting. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Gurpgork]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Also- can you give and examples of abilities that are as powerful as BS? I just want to see we you're thinking.

Landslide, Razorwing, Exalted Blade, Peacemaker, Virulence, augmented Teleport, and Maim, just to name a few. All of those abilities exceed BS's AoE, damage, or both, while being less cumbersome and more energy efficient to use. 

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is such an exaggeration.

Not really, though. Warframe is, above all else, fast. Blade Storm is completely the opposite of that. Marking enemies is slow. Painstakingly hitting every single enemy with a long-winded finisher attack is excruciatingly slow, especially if you have a big group of enemies you want to kill.

Honestly, if Blade Storm basically instantly struck every marked target when you activated the ability, it would get rid of a lot of its problems (save for the ridiculously excessive cost). But it doesn't. If throws you into vomit cam for as long as it takes to hit every marked enemy. It could be 20-40 seconds to kill a group of enemies that Exalted Blade would melt in just a handful of seconds.

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's one of the most powerful and highest scaling abilities in the game. 

Yeah, it does a lot of damage. But it's also significantly more cumbersome and energy intensive than basically every other ability that it would otherwise be competitive with. It's weaker than augmented Teleport if you need single-target damage, and it's much too slow to effectively use as an AoE attack. That puts it in a place where it basically serves no purpose. You're honestly better off bringing a slide attack Atterax and Fatal Teleport than you are using Blade Storm, and in that case, it's barely even worth bringing Ash.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Gurpgork

[RistN]

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Number of Sins: 12

Bonus sins for bullsh*t false statements: +5

Total Sins: 17

Veredict: BLADESTORMED!

Lol! Half of my quotes are pulled out its context and turned into something else, others are just youre opinion.I did make few mistakes in my post whitch was written fast on my launch break but reson for writing it remains the same,ash is still good and not just some hit 4 to win.See what i qouted first.

PS

In this topic how many posts are youres?Half?Thats what I call bullsh*it stormed.Pushing youre opinion onto everyone...Have some maners boy.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

10 minutes ago, RistN said:

ash is still good and not just some hit 4 to win.

Every frame for the most part is good a killing mobs with their 4 throughout the star chart.  The difference between most frames in this game and Ash is Ash's 4 is required to have a "phase" to setup before it can be effective. That is completely counterproductive to Warframe gameplay style. And serves no real purpose other than an attempt  to nerf. 

@Nazrethim actually has a good well thought out rework. That works in PvE and PvP.

Edited September 23, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Hypernaut1]

36 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Look most frames are capable of killing multiple enemies with their 4 throughout the star chart and do not require a "phase" to prepare before. But Ash is the exception?!

It's senseless and counterproductive in this horde type of game setting. 

It's not counterproductive. I use it fine without issue. Not every frame needs to nuke. It's a powerful ability. 

A stance would be the most boring rework for BS. It would just make it a copy of other ults. Many fan reworks really just copy what's already in the game and try to apply it to their favorite frame. That's why most of them are ignored. They're just " oh I like Excaliburs ult, what if my favorite frame had it too!"

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

34 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's not counterproductive.

It is tho. It requires a "setup" or "phase" before it can do the exactly the same thing the majority of other frames can do without a "setup" or "phase". It's nonsensical. 

34 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I use it fine without issue.

I could too and have but that's not the point. The effort needed is the issue. 

34 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

A stance would be the most boring rework for BS

I disagree, a stance 4 would actually allow his kit to have better synergy than we have currently.  

Edited September 23, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[RistN]

33 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Every frame for the most part is good a killing mobs with their 4 throughout the star chart.  The difference between most frames in this game and Ash is Ash's 4 is required to have a "phase" to setup before it can be effective. That is completely counterproductive to Warframe gameplay style. And serves no real purpose other than an attempt  to nerf. 

@Nazrethim actually has a good well thought out rework. That works in PvE and PvP.

Yes but im not against it.Didnt claim in any word I was.I just quoted a guy that basically said ash is all about bs and me trying to explain that his other 3 abilities were and still are very good and here comes this guy quoting me and talking nonsense entirely pulling my words out of its context and forcing his own opinions.If he has some ideas about ash rework forcing it  so aggressive here on forum isn't way to do it and certainly not by bashing others who are talking about other things than his bright ideas.

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

It is tho. It requires a "setup" or "phase" before it can do the exactly the same thing the majority of other frames can do without a "setup" or "phase". It's nonsensical. 

I could too and have but that's not the point. The effort needed is the issue. 

I disagree, a stance 4 would actually allow his kit to have better synergy than we have currently.  

You could play BS effectively, But don't want an ability that requires effort? Yeah, I think requiring effort was the main point of the BS rework. What a ridiculous counterpoint.

And you use "effort" as if it's really all that hard to target enemies. It's not. I regularly target entire mobs without issue.  If BS is toggled, enemies are getting marked before you can even zoom in to aim. A single mark is more than enough to kill early enemies. By the time you need to 3x mark, enemies aren't dying that fast and Embers aren't outkilling you with WoF. 

[Nazrethim]

*cracks knuckles*

*"The Crowd - Trix are for Kids" plays on the background*

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I think the big problem is that people don't know how to use bladestorm.

We know how, and it's very very VERY clunky.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Old bladestorm was simply a mage nuke.

Not really, as Ash himself participated. Mage nukes by their definition are those in which the caster has zero involvement once the spell goes off.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It was effective but boring.

If spammed, yes.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

A stance is over done as would be a terrible change.

Better than current it certainly is, and if done well it is The best option.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Bladestorm is not bad enough to need a change, especially when you have ults like Mag's crush that pales in comparison to the utility and damage you can do with BS.

BS damage has nothing to do with sh*tty mechanics. It could oneshot everything even sortie bosses and STILL be terrible, because the problem isn't in the damage, it's on the mechanics (and cost). It needs to change, like it or not, accept it or not.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Bladestorm is an ability you need to prepare for. You don't just hit 4, wiggle, hit 4. That means you were unprepared. The correct way to use BS is to keep mark toggled as you approach a group of enemies. He's an assassin, this is him surveying the field. Your approach the enemies, soften them in up with your weapons, fatal teleport the biggest, baddest guy in the room then activate BS to clean up the rest that are still standing. 

Oh yeah? I was doing all that sh*t pre-revisit too. Why? Because I could get stuck on elite enemies, so I went in, scouted the area by myself with my sights, identified and dispatched with weapons and/or teleport the elite enemies I may get stuck on, then clean up with BS.

What did revisit change? Added a totally uncalled for marking system (that was pointed out months in advance it would be terrible), increased cost by 200 to 800%, increased cutscene uninteractive time by 200%, and made the clipshow completely pointless as in order to slightly reduce the ridiculous cost increase you need to be invisible, which makes all those cool "ninja assassinates targets" animations turn into "blob of smoke humps targets and they die".

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Bladestorm compliments his other abilities.

That's BS and you know it.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

1. It's cheaper when cloaked and can return you to a safe perch. 

Yeah, because 30% cost reduction compensates for 200 to 800% cost increase. And old BS also returned to a safe perch.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

2. It works wonderfully in unison with fatal teleport. Ash marks targets even while teleporting. It can also you to soften up a group before teleporting in to kill. BS allows you to decide wether or not you want to advance towards the enemy or kill them from a distance. 

It doesn't. It overlaps with Fatal Teleport, both in cost and function, and FT is actually superior. And again, why not merging them? They kind of do the same thing anyway.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If your teammates are killing enemies faster than you, then you're in a low level mission that doesn't need BS spammed. Simple as that. In sorties my kill count rises in comparison. 

Sorties, you mean those bs missions with bs lvl scaling and bs conditions? And in low levle missions Shuriken, of all things, outperforms BS.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I wouldn't mind some numbers tweaks to Ash,

As I said, you could buff it to be oneshoting everything and costing zero energy and it would STILL s*ck. The problems are MECHANICAL not STATISTICAL (well, other than cost which is the only Stat problem)

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

but Ash is already a HIGHLY effective frame in end game.

There isn't endgame in WF. And the game isn't balanced around lvl f*ckhundreds.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It would be ridiculous to make big change for a frame as endgame viable as Ash.

He works, but he works in the sense "Vanilla WoW Warlocks work". That doesn't mean the design is well done.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

There is no content he struggles in.

Oh yeah? How about on every situation you need to wipe enemies fast? He¡s a Damage frame, tailored for killing after all. YOU try doing Ambulas fight for example with Ash, ain't happen unless you bring a Tonkor or a Lenz.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

There are plenty other frames that need the help first.

That's the only thing I sort of agree. Zephyr needs changes, as well as Trinity. Mag still has some odd stuff to polish as well as Excalibur, but they aren't in a bad spot by comparison to Ash who flat out lacks a 4th ability due to sheer pointlessness of using it.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And his ult actually gets better as the difficulty rises. Ignoring armor add

It doesn't get better, it may ignore armor but unless you can mass viral proc everyone FT is stil the superior option, or a good melee combined with Smoke Screen's damage multiplier. BS is outperformed at all levels by his other 3 abilities, only exceptions being Sentient Enemies, Stalker and some non-invulnerable bosses.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

There's a reason why they've remained silent.

Or because they know the f*cked up and won't admit defeat, I wouldn't consider that past them as they have made terrible mistakes in the past and refused to correct.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They've already deliberated on bladestorm for a year, and they were right in implementing the marking mechanic.

Yeah, because when players who already used the full power of the frame rather than relying on a broken stat and spam tell you something is going to be terrible and to the surprise of nobody it ends up being terrible "you were right"

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They tried the other options and didn't like them at all.

They tried ONE other option: World on Blade Storm, which, the same group of players I mentioned above pointed out was broken and the dumbest idea ever.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

And they probably balked at the idea of giving him a stance, I don't think they even tried that one.

Your assumption is correct here.

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ash is fine.

Not he isn't, you are in denial. Or you somehow are convinced that a frame with an "ult" that requires stacking a broken stat, broken energy generators AND a frickin 90% Attack Speed RIVEN mod on your melee is "well designed".

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

He is actually in a better place than many other frames. 

He's in better place than Zephyr. How wonderful, isn't it?

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Many of you seem to be more worried about trash mob kill count than anything (my teammates kill faster than me, BS is terrible). If that's the case, pick Ember. BS is a multi enemy, high damage, armor ignoring ability.... It's NOT BAD

You are right. It's not bad. It's TERRIBLE.

 

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, RistN said:

Lol! Half of my quotes are pulled out its context and turned into something else, others are just youre opinion.I did make few mistakes in my post whitch was written fast on my launch break but reson for writing it remains the same,ash is still good and not just some hit 4 to win.See what i qouted first.

I didn't pulled anything out of context. I pointed out crystal clear flaws in design.

Quote

In this topic how many posts are youres?Half?Thats what I call bullsh*it stormed.Pushing youre opinion onto everyone...Have some maners boy.

Well, Ash is the reason I got hooked to the game in the first place, and of course I'm not going to give up when Ash gets scr*wed on the moment that should have been his spotlight and a bunch of morons/People in denial come claiming "he's better" contrary to ALL evidence of the contrary. I actually had better manners, but by now I'm very bitter with DE and very annoyed by people who spew bs without factual proof or claim "it's good because with [insert broken stat] and [insert super specific mod set up, even including f*ckin RIVENS] it works well".

 

58 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's not counterproductive.

Because your screen being permanently Sepia or monochrome, or your energy being depleted faster than a magnetic proc because you stared a 4 dudes the other side of the room isn't counterproductive.

Quote

I use it fine without issue.

And now you are going to start with "Efficiency this, Riven mod that, Arcane allows..."

Quote

Not every frame needs to nuke. It's a powerful ability. 

Power depends on 3 factors:

Cost, Time (set up and execution) and output.

For an ability to be considered powerful it needs to excel in all 3. BS costs a ridiculous amounts of energy (fails Cost), has a very sh*tty setup time and slow as a snail execution time (fails Time) and deals high damage (Checks Output).

BS falls into the "strong but very sh*tty and impractical" category. Not exactly powerful

Quote

A stance would be the most boring rework for BS. It would just make it a copy of other ults. Many fan reworks really just copy what's already in the game and try to apply it to their favorite frame. That's why most of them are ignored. They're just " oh I like Excaliburs ult, what if my favorite frame had it too!"

Seems you haven't actually read any BS Stance idea. Most of them are as far away from Excalibur's Ult as Soul Punch is from Decoy.

 

23 minutes ago, RistN said:

Yes but im not against it.Didnt claim in any word I was.I just quoted a guy that basically said ash is all about bs and me trying to explain that his other 3 abilities were and still are very good and here comes this guy quoting me and talking nonsense entirely pulling my words out of its context and forcing his own opinions.If he has some ideas about ash rework forcing it  so aggressive here on forum isn't way to do it and certainly not by bashing others who are talking about other things than his bright ideas.

Actually. I just point out that BS is the main problem as it's absolutely pointless. His other abilities have issues too, but they still work, the issues of course are older than the revisit as they were carried on because DE refused to use the revisit to correct them.

I don't actually aggressively push my rework idea. In fact the only reason I made so far 3 threads about it is because I let the older ones go Archived because I stopped posting (I don't post or "bump" my own thread unless I have something to say, like a sort of "patchnote"). I often jump into others reworks, point out some flaws in design, then encourage them to try again and fix the design problems.

I may sound like a dochebag, but I'm quite reasonable. I'm just bitter with DE and annoyed by players who are either in denial or are so moronic about what good game design is they can't tell Ash got massively nerfed for no reason. (as the old bs problem wasn't the ability itself, but Power Efficiency being utterly broken)

14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You could play BS effectively, But don't want an ability that requires effort? Yeah, I think requiring effort was the main point of the BS rework. What a ridiculous counterpoint.

Sure, because properly using a Stance or comboing with other abilities requires less effort than staring at enemies and watching a 10s or more (up to 50s) automated clipshow that makes you invulnerable.

Quote

 A single mark is more than enough to kill early enemies.

Shuriken kills up to Jupiter in one shot (so you can oneshot 2 for 25 energy) and it's faster than BS and 5 energy cheaper, and doesn't lock you into a cutscene.

Quote

By the time you need to 3x mark, enemies aren't dying that fast and Embers aren't outkilling you with WoF. 

And by the time you need 3 marks FT is just as fast and 1/3rd of the cost. And SS and a goodish melee wipe the grunts anyway.

 

*Drops the keyboard*

*"The Crowd - Trix are for kids" stops playing in the background*

Edited September 23, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

21 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You could play BS effectively, But don't want an ability that requires effort? Yeah, I think requiring effort was the main point of the BS rework. What a ridiculous counterpoint.

And you use "effort" as if it's really all that hard to target enemies. It's not. I regularly target entire mobs without issue.  If BS is toggled, enemies are getting marked before you can even zoom in to aim. A single mark is more than enough to kill early enemies. By the time you need to 3x mark, enemies aren't dying that fast and Embers aren't outkilling you with WoF. 

Why is "effort" "phases" or "setup"needed for Ash's BS, but not needed for every other frame but yet can still achieve the exact same result throughout the star chart? The marking mechanism and energy cost for that matter is completely nonsensical. 

Something tells me no matter what DE turned BS into you would still be defending it. So this conversation cannot continue as you can not be objective.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

I didn't pulled anything out of context. I pointed out crystal clear flaws in design.

Well, Ash is the reason I got hooked to the game in the first place, and of course I'm not going to give up when Ash gets scr*wed on the moment that should have been his spotlight and a bunch of morons/People in denial come claiming "he's better" contrary to ALL evidence of the contrary. I actually had better manners, but by now I'm very bitter with DE and very annoyed by people who spew bs without factual proof or claim "it's good because with [insert broken stat] and [insert super specific mod set up, even including f*ckin RIVENS] it works well".

 

Because your screen being permanently Sepia or monochrome, or your energy being depleted faster than a magnetic proc because you stared a 4 dudes the other side of the room isn't counterproductive.

And now you are going to start with "Efficiency this, Riven mod that, Arcane allows..."

Power depends on 3 factors:

Cost, Time (set up and execution) and output.

For an ability to be considered powerful it needs to excel in all 3. BS costs a ridiculous amounts of energy (fails Cost), has a very sh*tty setup time and slow as a snail execution time (fails Time) and deals high damage (Checks Output).

BS falls into the "strong but very sh*tty and impractical" category. Not exactly powerful

Seems you haven't actually read any BS Stance idea. Most of them are as far away from Excalibur's Ult as Soul Punch is from Decoy.

 

Actually. I just point out that BS is the main problem as it's absolutely pointless. His other abilities have issues too, but they still work, the issues of course are older than the revisit as they were carried on because DE refused to use the revisit to correct them.

I don't actually aggressively push my rework idea. In fact the only reason I made so far 3 threads about it is because I let the older ones go Archived because I stopped posting (I don't post or "bump" my own thread unless I have something to say, like a sort of "patchnote"). I often jump into others reworks, point out some flaws in design, then encourage them to try again and fix the design problems.

I may sound like a dochebag, but I'm quite reasonable. I'm just bitter with DE and annoyed by players who are either in denial or are so moronic about what good game design is they can't tell Ash got massively nerfed for no reason. (as the old bs problem wasn't the ability itself, but Power Efficiency being utterly broken)

Sure, because properly using a Stance or comboing with other abilities requires less effort than staring at enemies and watching a 10s or more (up to 50s) automated clipshow that makes you invulnerable.

Shuriken kills up to Jupiter in one shot (so you can oneshot 2 for 25 energy) and it's faster than BS and 5 energy cheaper, and doesn't lock you into a cutscene.

And by the time you need 3 marks FT is just as fast and 1/3rd of the cost. And SS and a goodish melee wipe the grunts anyway.

 

*Drops the keyboard*

*"The Crowd - Trix are for kids" stops playing in the background*

once again your overdone line by line response is just filled with exaggeration and panic.... You're clearly in your own little bubble there, so I won't waste my time. 

And lol at you telling i need to "accept"that it needs to change. Haha, I think maybe you need to accept that it's fine. Bladestorm is already in the game and there isn't talks of it being reworked anytime soon. Lol.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[RistN]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

I didn't pulled anything out of context. I pointed out crystal clear flaws in design.

Well with this said its clear you did.First post you quoted me on I quoted the guy that was statitng that Ash isnt good any more because BS got nerfed.I just stated that he has other 3 good and useful abilities.There were no comments about flaws in design,actually in one moment I even said I am a bit nostalgic about BS getting nerfed.So whole point of my post was that Ash is a great warframe with 3 more good abilities,not just one,even if it was his best one.Do they need to change and why,I didnt get into that.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Why is "effort" "phases" or "setup"needed for Ash's BS, but not needed for every other frame but yet can still achieve the exact same result throughout the star chart? The marking mechanism and energy cost for that matter is completely nonsensical. 

Something tells me no matter what DE turned BS into you would still be defending it. So this conversation cannot continue as you can not be objective.

I'm not going to argue with you over "effort".  I've said my piece and know for a fact that BS is a strong and useable it. 

If you're have that hard of a time using it, then you're just dismissing it without trying.

DE does not need to listen to feedback based on players that just knee jerk react to losing a p4tw move. It's just like with the Saryn rework outrage that DE successfully ignored.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

25 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If you're have that hard of a time using it, then you're just dismissing it without trying.

DE does not need to listen to feedback based on players that just knee jerk react to losing a p4tw move. It's just like with the Saryn rework outrage that DE successfully ignored.

I invite you to go read the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread. Count the combined up votes for those that like the new BS verses the up votes that don't.

Again the BS revisit was and is completely counterproductive and nonsensical. 

At least Sayrn can cut the tilesets life in half for her whole squad with a mere flick of the wrist..but I digress. 

[Hypernaut1]

27 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

I invite you to go read the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread. Count the combined up votes for those that like the new BS verses the up votes that don't.

Again the BS revisit was and is completely counterproductive and nonsensical. 

At least Sayrn can cut the tilesets life in half for her whole squad with a mere flick of the wrist..but I digress. 

I don't think DE makes decisions based on forum polls. They have actual data they can look at to see it's effectiveness. Also- Saryns rework would've had plenty of displeased people too. There will always be a group of posters that can't handle change and will spam the forums insisting that everyone feels the same. The way DE decides which complaints are legit and what is just whining is factual data. Claiming that BS is unusable can be proven wrong with factual data and will be rightfully ignored. 

You can claim I defend everything DE does, but that's simply not true. I have threads criticising their decisions. I criticized them even trying to change BS, I've criticized his tweets about his (horrible) ideas before they settled on what we have now. Difference is I actually learn to play with changes before I rage and dismiss them. I admit, I didn't like it at first and thought Ash was ruined, but after adjusting my playstyle and actually playing more like a Ninja and not a nuker, I've been more than effective with the rework.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Nazrethim]

49 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Claiming that BS is unusable can be proven wrong with factual data and will be rightfully ignored. 

Oh yeah? Well, where's your math and gameplay proof of that?

49 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 I criticized them even trying to change BS, I've criticized his tweets about his (horrible) ideas before they settled on what we have now.

Then why the f*ck do you defend current failstorm then despite being the sh*ttiest the ability has been, even trumping close beta which only dealt Slash damage, not Finisher?!

49 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Difference is I actually learn to play with changes before I rage and dismiss them. I admit, I didn't like it at first and thought Ash was ruined, but after adjusting my playstyle and actually playing more like a Ninja and not a nuker, I've been more than effective with the rework.

Yeah well. Once I figured out the best way to use it, I also realised that it was completely pointless as Smoke Screen and Teleport are way better in any scenario and that Shuriken outperforms it at low levels. And you don't actually play it "Like a ninja", that isn't a thing in WF (as it's a horde game for the most part, while ninjas are inherently tactical fighters not rambos with swords).

Before the rework, BS and TP shared the same theme: Ash teleports and stabs people. The difference is that they didn't quite overlap. TP was pointless for crowds of grunts because it was target by target but excelled at dispatching single elite units (such as Eximi) and fatal teleport made that easier and cost effective. BS was really bad when dealing with elite enemies, leaving the player stuck, but excelled at dispatching crowds. So the probably intended way of using them was dispatching elites first, then BS to clean up. Of course Max Effi allowd lazy players to spam their way trough whole missions, and annoying others by having dangerous eximi units and their auras alive by locking into BS clipshow on them. That was a punishment for spam if you think about it.

Now both abilities do the exact same thing: Teleport unit by unit and stabbing them. Utterly pointless to have 2 abilities that do the exact same thing. And since Smoke Screen's damage multiplier to melee allows Ash to clear crowds more effectively than clipshowstorm and TP scales well better (or infinitely if we account for CL Dagger) it means Blade Storm serves no function other than draining energy. It's flavor animations becoming a hazzle and pointless to keep as invisibility is mandatory to diminish the stupid cost.

The whole thing is a massive failure in design and an insult to players. Yet you STILL defend it? Despite all the factual data and mathematical proof?

At this point replacing BS with a Stance or making it go back to pre-revisit BS are actually the only paths to properly adressing the sh*t design flaws.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Now that Zenurik energy regen is going to be gone, Ash's energy economy will be even more broken. Not to mention his marking mechanic could be vary problematic in PoE. 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

pre-revisit BS

You know all they really needed to do was give it a cool down or a charge up like Mesa's 1, speed the utl up, make it so enemies could still be attacked while Ash was in his utl, and make it so we can't get stuck on ancients and let us cancel or opt out at any time. 

[Nazrethim]

Just now, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

You know all they really needed to do was give it a cool down or a charge up like Mesa's 1, speed the utl up, make it so enemies could still be attacked while Ash was in his utl, and make it so we can't get stuck on ancients and let us cancel or opt out at any time. 

That could have actually worked if well implemented. Like, every X number of kills with either Shuriken or Finisher attacks (Teleport or not) he gets a Blade Storm charge (no energy cost, same mechanics as old bs). *

 

The Ult was actually fast so long as you didn't get stuck on resistant enemies, which as I already mentioned could be bypassed by scouting the area first and dispatching these elite troops and then Bladestorming to clean up. Ancients in all fairness have too high spawnrate, but that's mostly because other infested units are hilariously weak.

 

*This may or may not be a terrible idea too, I'm just making stuff up on the fly.

[Hypernaut1]

11 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Oh yeah? Well, where's your math and gameplay proof of that?

Then why the f*ck do you defend current failstorm then despite being the sh*ttiest the ability has been, even trumping close beta which only dealt Slash damage, not Finisher?!

Yeah well. Once I figured out the best way to use it, I also realised that it was completely pointless as Smoke Screen and Teleport are way better in any scenario and that Shuriken outperforms it at low levels. And you don't actually play it "Like a ninja", that isn't a thing in WF (as it's a horde game for the most part, while ninjas are inherently tactical fighters not rambos with swords).

Before the rework, BS and TP shared the same theme: Ash teleports and stabs people. The difference is that they didn't quite overlap. TP was pointless for crowds of grunts because it was target by target but excelled at dispatching single elite units (such as Eximi) and fatal teleport made that easier and cost effective. BS was really bad when dealing with elite enemies, leaving the player stuck, but excelled at dispatching crowds. So the probably intended way of using them was dispatching elites first, then BS to clean up. Of course Max Effi allowd lazy players to spam their way trough whole missions, and annoying others by having dangerous eximi units and their auras alive by locking into BS clipshow on them. That was a punishment for spam if you think about it.

Now both abilities do the exact same thing: Teleport unit by unit and stabbing them. Utterly pointless to have 2 abilities that do the exact same thing. And since Smoke Screen's damage multiplier to melee allows Ash to clear crowds more effectively than clipshowstorm and TP scales well better (or infinitely if we account for CL Dagger) it means Blade Storm serves no function other than draining energy. It's flavor animations becoming a hazzle and pointless to keep as invisibility is mandatory to diminish the stupid cost.

The whole thing is a massive failure in design and an insult to players. Yet you STILL defend it? Despite all the factual data and mathematical proof?

At this point replacing BS with a Stance or making it go back to pre-revisit BS are actually the only paths to properly adressing the sh*t design flaws.

What factual data? Your theory crafting isn't factual data. You're full of yourself. DE is the only ones with factual data on gameplay. 

You claim that it isn't useable without max efficiency, arcanes and zenurik. My gameplay proves that to be false. The energy use isn't that serious. And I'm sure devs tested the energy use, maybe it could use some tweaks but come on now, the devs aren't $&*&*#(%&.

You claim that it's extremely slow. My gameplay proves that to be false. I don't kill as fast as he used to, but I still do extremely well. I can still get the most kills in sorties (not even that important really) and my gameplay still had lots of BS use sprinkled throughout.

You can't tell me BS isn't useable when I use it.... Effectively. 

The only massive failure is your ability to cope with what we have now.

[Hypernaut1]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Now that Zenurik energy regen is going to be gone, Ash's energy economy will be even more broken. Not to mention his marking mechanic could be vary problematic in PoE. 

Personally, I prefer to use naramon with Ash. BS doesn't need zenurik. 

Go melee, proc shadow step, mark targets at lower cost, build combo multiplier and unleash and even more devastating BS to clean up.

That's how you play. Not, 4, wiggle, 4.... Wait for more energy.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

29 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

proc shadow step,

That won't exist anymore. And is a terrible strategy. 

Edited September 23, 2017 by (XB1)RDeschain82