Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[TheOnlyWarBear]

If somebody would be so kind, I would like to "reexamine"  Naz's rework for ash, considering many seem to favor it.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, Kunsumption said:

If somebody would be so kind, I would like to "reexamine"  Naz's rework for ash, considering many seem to favor it.

@Nazrethim 

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, Kunsumption said:

If somebody would be so kind, I would like to "reexamine"  Naz's rework for ash, considering many seem to favor it.

Sure. Since it's a hella lot to copy (+spoiler) here's the thread:

Spoiler

 

 

[TheOnlyWarBear]

@Nazrethim

I freaking love it. Bit could you explain the canceling effect of the me blamestorm? How would it be canceled and how exactly does that work, the "perfect storm"

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, Kunsumption said:

@Nazrethim

I freaking love it. Bit could you explain the canceling effect of the me blamestorm? How would it be canceled and how exactly does that work, the "perfect storm"

Blade Storm in that rework is a Duration-based Stance Ultimate. Tap while not active to activate, Tap again to refresh the duration (cost not adjusted, still costs 100 energy so it's best to do it when there are 1 or 2s remaining) or Hold (Fixed 1s hold with automatic release, that way it doesn't interrupt combat flow) to cancel it. Perfect Storm just adds a radial AoE attack to the cancel function, it's not exactly strong, it's just 3 normal BS hits to everything in range with no additional multiplier, it's about gameplay not numbers.

[TheOnlyWarBear]

5 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Blade Storm in that rework is a Duration-based Stance Ultimate. Tap while not active to activate, Tap again to refresh the duration (cost not adjusted, still costs 100 energy so it's best to do it when there are 1 or 2s remaining) or Hold (Fixed 1s hold with automatic release, that way it doesn't interrupt combat flow) to cancel it. Perfect Storm just adds a radial AoE attack to the cancel function, it's not exactly strong, it's just 3 normal BS hits to everything in range with no additional multiplier, it's about gameplay not numbers.

Okay, so when does DE  make Ash just like you have described? lol Seriously, I want it so badly.

 

Also on another note, one of my main complaints about Ash is his teleporting. Now, I am not saying in terms of damage, I mean in terms of mechanic. I have been wanting Ash to be able to teleport where one would point (much like in conclave). What are your thoughts on this, I figure even thought it is currently only mechanically possible in PvP, why wouldn't it be possible in PvE? Thoughts?

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, Kunsumption said:

Also on another note, one of my main complaints about Ash is his teleporting. Now, I am not saying in terms of damage, I mean in terms of mechanic. I have been wanting Ash to be able to teleport where one would point (much like in conclave). What are your thoughts on this, I figure even thought it is currently only mechanically possible in PvP, why wouldn't it be possible in PvE? Thoughts?

Well, there isn't anything really preventing that. It's mostly DE not trying too hard to fix Ash (to be fair, they didn't want, they just got sick of player complaints and decided to nerf).

Just add a radial stagger at the end to open enemies and call it a day. If you read my rework notice I just did that. And the automatic finisher on augment is no longer necesary because the Overdrive function already does it, so the Augments provide other utilities, in the form of CC and quicker Overdrive respectively.

2 hours ago, Kunsumption said:

Okay, so when does DE  make Ash just like you have described? lol Seriously, I want it so badly.

As soon as we can convince DE to do so, or at least consider it. So far they have been silent about Ash and the only changes since the revisit have been:

-Player can now use Chat while Blade Storm is being executed

-Fatal Teleport no longer works on Juggernaut.

...yeah.

There's also the problem of players not wanting Ash changed for various reasons despite being in a very bad position right now. Reasons range from "not trusting DE to improve the frame and instead fearing further nerfs" "not wanting the frame to be improved at all (basically people who hate ash)" and "he's fine because my Arcane-powered, Efficiency-stacked, Riven-enhaced build makes it [almost] as good as any nuke, actual evidence of this being bs be damned"

Edited October 12, 2017 by Nazrethim

[TheOnlyWarBear]

26 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, there isn't anything really preventing that. It's mostly DE not trying too hard to fix Ash (to be fair, they didn't want, they just got sick of player complaints and decided to nerf).

Just add a radial stagger at the end to open enemies and call it a day. If you read my rework notice I just did that. And the automatic finisher on augment is no longer necesary because the Overdrive function already does it, so the Augments provide other utilities, in the form of CC and quicker Overdrive respectively.

As soon as we can convince DE to do so, or at least consider it. So far they have been silent about Ash and the only changes since the revisit have been:

-Player can now use Chat while Blade Storm is being executed

-Fatal Teleport no longer works on Juggernaut.

...yeah.

There's also the problem of players not wanting Ash changed for various reasons despite being in a very bad position right now. Reasons range from "not trusting DE to improve the frame and instead fearing further nerfs" "not wanting the frame to be improved at all (basically people who hate ash)" and "he's fine because my Arcane-powered, Efficiency-stacked, Riven-enhaced build makes it [almost] as good as any nuke, actual evidence of this being bs be damned"

Once the Plains drop this week, and most of the hype has settled, and assuming the upcoming Sacrifice isn't too Soon, then maybe we can beg another time for change. I see nothing out of the ordinary with your suggestions that would cause a lot of strain on DE. I understand they are majorly about keeping abilities relatively the same, and you have done just that. But they went all out with the synergy on Saryn, basically completely reworked Limbo, Fixed up Mag, made Hydroid less of a puddle and more of a Waframe than ever, The Great Paladin Goat is now even playable more so than he ever used to be, A long time ago, Excal got his own stance and edited abilities, so why did they say the great Ash Rework and just made BS slower, cost more, and ultimately destroyed Ash :/

As I read your rework, I wanted to jump into the game myself and try it as if DE had already done it, it seems so plausible and fitting.

 

[TheOnlyWarBear]

EVERYONE! Devstream 99 is around the corner! QUICK if you can make a little reply in the Topic about Ash needing some love! Please we want something to be done!

[Ozent]

There was an idea of a nier automata single zone slash nuke. i feel like this might be a cool idea for ash's ultimate rework. Possibly a bladestorm in a small area, maybe 8m, where ash only does the animation on 1/3(?) of the enemies, and the clones do the rest. Or only clones attack while ash can use his weapons. Like an assassination saryn ulti.

I also do not like the channeled ability for ash.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Ozent

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Ozent said:

There was an idea of a nier automata single zone slash nuke. i feel like this might be a cool idea for ash's ultimate rework. Possibly a bladestorm in a small area, maybe 8m, where ash only does the animation on 1/3(?) of the enemies, and the clones do the rest. Or only clones attack while ash can use his weapons. Like an assassination saryn ulti.

I also do not like the channeled ability for ash.

 

That would be old BS with less radius, not a bad idea either as it was well designed, the problem was Efficiency being utter broken.

[Ozent]

42 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

That would be old BS with less radius, not a bad idea either as it was well designed, the problem was Efficiency being utter broken.

Yeah, I'm not sure how to make ash's ultimate not broken without your channeling suggestion, but I like ash because I'm able to use all my weapons with versatility.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, Ozent said:

Yeah, I'm not sure how to make ash's ultimate not broken without your channeling suggestion, but I like ash because I'm able to use all my weapons with versatility.

It's not really a channeled state, it's a Duration based super mode that you can just cancel at any moment and even has an augment to make the cancel an offensive function.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Ig it didn’t work out for devstream 

[Nazrethim]

Just now, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Ig it didn’t work out for devstream 

Well, Plan B then, next Tennocon we all show up with Ash masks and sing together that We Are the World parody son I wrote. That would probably work. Or we can just sort of record the voices and make a wf machinima with different Ash singing it.

Jokes aside, we shouldn't give up.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, Plan B then, next Tennocon we all show up with Ash masks and sing together that We Are the World parody son I wrote. That would probably work. Or we can just sort of record the voices and make a wf machinima with different Ash singing it.

Jokes aside, we shouldn't give up.

Tennocon next year we should only ask questions about ash

[Hypernaut1]

13 hours ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Tennocon next year we should only ask questions about ash

i was at Tennocon and got to talk to Scott, and i specifically remember him saying he was fine with Ash and was going to give Mag some love....Mag hasnt gotten any love yet, so take that with a grain of salt.....and he was drinking

Edited October 15, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[TECCC]

in my opinion there is no need for a ash rework.

I love to play him as he is , now after plains of eidolon is released with new dagger stance "stinging thorn" he´s almost perfect for me.

[Luc1fer16]

I would change 100% bladestorm in some aspects:

 

1st

The animation will be 70% faster (actually is way too slow)

2nd

The clones are the only ones killing,while they do it you can move around normal

3rd

Bladestorm will get 2% more damage each time you kill an enemy with bladestorm to a max of 40% more dmg (like melee combos multipliers)

[Hypernaut1]

14 hours ago, TECCC said:

in my opinion there is no need for a ash rework.

I love to play him as he is , now after plains of eidolon is released with new dagger stance "stinging thorn" he´s almost perfect for me.

I think his playstyle is even more fun in the plains. I love stalking patrols, even if I don't have to. 

On a side note, I do wish DE can bump up the enemy level a bit. Ash does so much damage, it's almost overkill

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 10/14/2017 at 10:53 PM, Hypernaut1 said:

Mag hasnt gotten any love yet, so take that with a grain of salt.....and he was drinking

Yes, give mag some TLC.

[Hypernaut1]

Just now, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Yes, give mag some TLC.

He promised to. He also mentioned it may be tied to shield gating... And we know how that's going

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)RDeschain82 said:

Yes, give mag some TLC.

@Hypernaut1

Let's not forget about Zephyr.

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

@Hypernaut1

Let's not forget about Zephyr.

 

Agreed. 

[FlarmBlarg]

I'm pretty sure shuriken is bugged when using Nidus's Larva, using seeking just causes even more chaos, basically I found that if enemies are caught in the mass, they take like 10-20 ticks in a single second instead of the single one meaning that enemies health just gets completely melted, it seems to kind of work with ash's 4 ability but no where near as much as shuriken